Archived Which -ism are you and why?

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Vampire_Fanatic

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u know democracy is not succesful either...
 

weixiaobao

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I believe in non-absolute ...
Capitalism is great without monopoly, it only force society to advance... but isn't because of capitalism and its cruelty during the industrial revolution that give rise to communism....
capitalism and its promotion of "survival of the fittest" encouraged imperialism, racism which also help spread communism. Though if it wasn't for the not really practical ideal of communism that help 3rd world countries defend themselves against communism. And if wasn't for the fear of communism, that capitalist countries start to worry about the needy, the poor, the lower working class. And if it was not for the growth of capitalist countries that communist countries (China, and vietnam) to change (somewhat positively) to keep up.

But one thing for sure it all depend on the leader that each theory is use correctly. Mr. Mao (zedong)'s reign and his the Great Leap resulted in lot of death due to starvation in china. and if Ho chi Minh was to alive until the end of the war, there could be no re-education camp, and vietnam would probably be much better now.

Equality (Egalitarianism)
My friend had a great saying that go "we all born equally, but after birth... hmm i dunno"

Altruism
This is shitty... because of this thinking there was so many tyrants in the world..
if to do good to others is selfless and no benefits what soever is just plain shity.. If one would realize that all the deeds one do is to benefits oneself then one would also realize about responsibilities and consequences of one action to one benefits (maybe it small like basic needs, or large like recycle to prevent global warming). After that one can learn compassion for others and realize that the welfare of others is also to one's benefits.
 

Oblivion

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capitalism is the best working in our society coz its based of profit and greed.

i'd much rather have communism ans socialsm, but its against human nature to share and not stop desiring and envying to have more and more. one always wants to take and gaim more property.
the humans aint ready for this.
 

Leen

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My friend once said this, "You know what's the best system one can have for this world? Theocracy."

What do you think about that then? Every human being unites under one God and let God be the president of the world. Do you think that will work?
 

miyi

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capitalism works, the participants of capitalist systems are often (not always) benefiting on varying levels...the world today compared to the world before capitalism economy is better off....there are less people in poverty today than there were before capitalism, and that is fact...

while it is true that generally the rich becomes richer and the poor much poorer, this simply means that the wealth is being unequally distributed....a common misconception is that capitalism causes the poor to become even poorer, which isn't generally the case. The opposite is usually true. Capitalist participants on the whole, including the poor, are at a better financial condition than without capitalism.

I can provide multiple links that discusses "Globalism" but most of the articles I read requires subscription fees...


And yes, capitalism has it's down side....when the economy and the financial foundations are fragile, it can easily collapse, which leads to economic depressions....and this is problematic especially today, the fact that most countries' economies are more integrated and interdependent of each other, where a U.S. economic breakdown will dramatically impact the world.

And it is true, capitalism may not benefit all countries, i.e. Latin America....they have generally been slow to adapt to "globalism", and they're being out-competed by the Chinese and Indians...

speaking of that, just look how successful the Chinese are. Yes, they are Communists, but had they not opened up their markets to the global economy and practiced capitalism, their economy wouldn't be as successful today....Not to take any credit away from the Chinese, in fact, they are role models for capitalism...they're very good at it.


Communism, like I've described above in my earlier posts, does not have a good track record compared to a capitalist system. Just look at North Korea and South Korea, two neighbors, but if you look at their economies (one is Communist, while the other is capitalist), there is a startling contrast....North Korea is impoverished, and the Communist leader Kim Jong Il lavish in his extravagant lifestyle and greed.....his people die of hunger while he himself is enjoying wealth....that's a typical flaw of Communism: it's prone to corruption by those in power, the "state"..South Korea, on the other hand, is a booming economy and is not suffering any of the humans rights abuses by a dictatorial Communist leader like Kim Il...their economy is among the top in South East Asia, along with China and Japan.

And lastly, when capitalism fails, the usual trend is that the people will then favor a more "leftist", socialist, or Communist type economy. It's a cycle....and yes, indeed, Communism emerged as a backlash against the so-called "excesses of capitalist systems"......Marx would agree, and in fact, he said that capitalism tends to corrupt, the rich exploit the poor.....which is more or less, true.

But even more prone to corruption, is communism. And while the Chinese at the moment, are doing fine as a Communist based polity, as well as a Capitalist type economy, I still think that Capitalism works best under a "Democracy"....where government is decentralized, which means less corruption, more checks against tyranny, less government imposed regulation on economy................the Chinese economy is somewhat different. While their market is generally a free-market type, in the end, it is still run by the "State"....and so in this sense, the State has control of the economy, and when you have government elites controlling the economy of a country, just think of the implications of how corruption by the State can greatly influence the people, who obeys the "state"......looked at in this perspective, a Democratic Capitalist system means more freedom is given to the individual in how he/she handles their own economic affairs.....under Communism, economic activity is dictated by the "State"...and so, you better hope that the "State" isn't corrupt, because if it is, then what will happen is something like a North Korea, where those in power, are truly in power.



Leen said:
My friend once said this, "You know what's the best system one can have for this world? Theocracy."

What do you think about that then? Every human being unites under one God and let God be the president of the world. Do you think that will work?
I prefer religious plurality -- that is, when many people with different religious background coexist with one another in peace -- as opposed to a universal theocracy.

Not all people believe in God, or even the same God, or Gods....

And I don't think it is even possible....

and I doubt if most of the people would consent.....for example, how would you convince the Atheists, agnostics, polytheists, etc...?

and a theocracy can work, for example: a predominantly Muslim country will work well under Islamic theocratic rule.

So yes, it can work....but on a global level? especially when the global population is of a diverse religious makeup? I don't think it will work.

And if the global population is of diverse religions, how would you impose a Religious Theocratic Government of only one kind...without resorting to compulsion?
 
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weixiaobao

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well, economy at its extreme end are horrible...

Extreme Communism- Mao's the Great Leap as i mention above..

but many seem to forgot about the other side as well

Extreme Capitalism- Industrial Revolution.... Robber Barron ...

China and the USA is successful now because neither countries at the extreme end of the stick..

As for theocracy, it did work very well in the ancient time especially in Egypt, Europe, and China*not 100% theocracy* (mandate of heaven) ... but there is time when the church is corrupted as seen in the pointless battle during the Crusader's era
 
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miyi

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before I get in trouble again for going off topic, this will be my last comment regarding "globalism/capitalism"...


weixiaobao said:
well, economy at its extreme end are horrible...

Extreme Communism- Mao's the Great Leap as i mention above..

but many seem to forgot about the other side as well

Extreme Capitalism- Industrial Revolution.... Robber Barron ...

China and the USA is successful now because neither countries at the extreme end of the stick..
^I agree with you completely..both Communism and Capitalism is prone to corruption, especially in its extreme forms.

While all this time, I've been arguing mainly as a supporter of Globalism/capitalism, I'm aware that there is a "darker" side to globalism. Here's a recommended reading, it's called "Where the Money Went" by James S. Henry, the introduction from his book called "The Blood Bankers":

Link --> Where the Money Went


in a nutshell, he explains how the Third World's $1.3 trillion "Debt Crisis" is a "man-made" crisis -- that there is an illegal, sophisticated underground network of "transnational" financial institutions, whereby the elites of Third World countries "steals" money from their people, transfers, or "stash" those money in First World safe havens, i.e. secret banks...this explains why Third World countries are generally suffering from a wealth gap, the rich super rich, the poor super poor.

This is not to say that all capitalists are corrupt, only a few are. But this underground network of corrupt capitalists has become way too influential, and they're impacting the global economy significantly, and it needs to be stopped.
 

Vampire_Fanatic

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My friend once said this, "You know what's the best system one can have for this world? Theocracy."

What do you think about that then? Every human being unites under one God and let God be the president of the world. Do you think that will work?
hell no, much of the worlds pop. is atheist, in fact, 33% of the Czech Republic is atheist.....no way would anyone allow that to happen
 

rhapsody blue

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hell no, much of the worlds pop. is atheist, in fact, 33% of the Czech Republic is atheist.....no way would anyone allow that to happen
care to check your facts? don't generalize one country to the entire world without doing your research.

world's religion
 

Leen

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Slightly off-topic but I just have to raise this question.

Why is atheism considered as a religion when it is a belief that doesn't believe in religion? :D
 

Kirio

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Mmh i would say none of these.

I'm very pessimitic in my vision of the world and i believe there is no deep meaning in those words.
No matter the system for me the only "values" leading the world are money and the main human characteristic : stupidity (although egoism is second in ranking)
 

Kusachu

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Isms...I hate them, but we are all bound to them as sentient beings, are we not?

I tend to view "isms" from an art historical point of view, being a student of such, so I'll start with the primary for me:

Marxism. I am a supporter of Marxism and do tend to take a Marxist view when analyzing works of art simply because I do look at art as a product. As such, my world view also follows Marxist lines of thinking.

I DO find Marx's idea of Communism/Socialism to be ideal and superior to Capitalism, BUT I did notice a lot of people mentioning the failings of both governmental systems. I don't know if it has been pointed out yet, but the ideas of Marx are often misconstrued when looking at modern examples of Communism and Socialism. I was instructed that many of the "Communist" leaders that we know of, and who have given the governmental system a bad name, such as Mao, Stalin, etc., have stated that they did not even read the Communist Manifesto, so I do not consider these examples of "Communism" to be true to what Marx and Engles envisioned, as such I support THEIR ideas, which were observations based on economic forces and the power struggle between the rich and the poor. Their ideas were not based on any form of government that existed at the time. They were just making claims based on the study of the history of classes in general.

I support their views because they they are not simply national. The problem I see with their idea of Communism is that they really cannot work on such a small scale as one nation of many. Their ideas are global. For such a system to work, the conditions must apply to every nation as one.

It is interesting to look at the global economy today and see the results of Marx's analysis of the failings of Capitalism actually becoming a reality. In America we are taught thet, of course, Capitalism is ideal, but in my view it is not. It is true that Capitalism may be superior to some other forms of government, such as say, Theocracy where their is no upward mobility possible for certain groups, but look at the failings of Capitalism in the middle and lower classes. The upper classes essentially control the mobility of the people simply because they control the means of production and the laws which govern those means.

Gah! I guess I'm going on and on a bit too much. I've gotten tired, so my brain is telling me to go to bed and stop giving a crap about politics...

I guess I may come back later and discuss more, but for now I'll end it with Altruism. I tend to have altuistic beliefs, but I also concider that human being are unable to be truely altruistic, so there is a recognition of Egoism in my line of thinking.
 

plop

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I don't think pure captialism works, nor does socialism or communism (not that there actually has been a single communistic country so far... they only did it to socialism). Not even in usa (post service and fire department? :). It was amusing to see politicians label public health care as socialism, communism or whatever. Gues that was their best argument.

Pure captitalism doesn't work because it (specially stocks system) accumulates wealth for few. Wealth is power, and power is wealth.

Socialism doesn't work because... state owns everything and people nothing.

Communism is not something thats going to happen.

--

I think a good system is a mixture. It's necesary that some earn more than others, but there doesn't exist valuable enough ass on this planet to contribute something worth 5 million a year. And I think people have responsabilities torwards each other.
 

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The political systems in themselves aren't necessarily bad, but it's the human nature which is unable to cope with them. Communism looks really neat on paper, but when applied, many problems erupted. For one thing, people don't like the idea of less of "them" for more of "the next guy". This same argument can be used against Socialism as well.

A good example against Socialism was that discussion I had about free Healthcare. Someone argued me that why should he have to pay for the health of some bum on the street? Why should he have to use some of his earned money to help some stranger? And what if he never gets that sick? He'd have paid lots of taxes for little benefits to his person.

A good example against Communism is that everyone is equal. Whether you'd be a doctor or a janitor, you would be equal in society ebcause you both offer something to the greater community. I'm sure many people(and myself to an extent) would find this "unfair" rather than "fair".

The reason Capitalism is a largely dominant system in most countries(with bits of other things) is because it favors the individual and self-accomplishment. Something that human nature has grown accustomed to. After all, the basic law of the jungle was something like "every man for himself" or "the top dog wins" so it goes with the basic instinct within many people.

There was this saying "Capitalism isn't perfect, but it's the best system we've found so far"

In the end, Socialism fails because the governement would end with too much power and knowing human nature, that wouldn't be good.

Communism would fail because of similar reasons(look at 3rd world Communist countries) or because of basic human nature.

Anyways, just my thoughts lol :p

My personal views? I also think that the most plausible and best solution considering society would be a mix as well. Some things are handled by money in a capitalist way, but some things are commune and handled by the state. I can't say Canada's system is the best(far from it), but I find it's a nice start to find balance. many things could be improved though.

As for the personal "ism", I've taken numerous ethics classes and those aren't really the definitions I've seen, but judging from your definitions, I'd say that I favor Altruism, but that I also like Utilitarianism. Altruism speaks for itself as to its worth, but Utilitarianism provides a better overall effect :D

Nice thread btw :tem
 
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