Whitebeard's swastika

[GomuGomu_Getsuga]

He may have originally intended for Whitebeard to be an evil tyrant type character. If I'm not mistaken, the Nazis' inverted the original symbol. Oda's original intentions could be explained by which version of the symbol he used.

 

[weixiaobao]

You judged me wrong and I fired back, in the easiest way ("no, you're it!" kind of way). If you wish we can insult each other in a more intellectual way via PM, but that wouldn't be too smart, would it?

I did concede that you are the "norm."

---------- Post added at 01:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:16 PM ----------

Don't sweat it, some of the members get agitated over nothing here. That's all there is to it.

Nope I never start the fire, I response to the fire that started. It wasn't that many years ago that people criticize how "white" of the world is naruto and there is no blacks in that world. Those accusation is beyond ridiculous.

---------- Post added at 01:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:17 PM ----------

My intention was never to accuse Oda of racism, why on earth would I do that? It seems that I chose my words poorly and it's understandable since I've been up for more than 36 hours, finally got to find something that catches my attention and wanted to point it out to other mangakas.

I don't think I misjudge consider what part of my posts you chose to focus on. I have plenty of points, but instead of address by core question of who is the ignorant one, you chose to addressing something else. That question is very general. Because you will not be the first nor the last that bring it up. Should people stumble upon something that is rather abnormal, like a swastika in a comic book, should they do research before making judgement. Or should they just make up their mind and confirm to what they already believe. This is a criticism on human behavior in general and not just subject to this swastika in One Piece. People makes ridiculous inference of an event all of the time. And I am extremely annoy by them. I meant read all those comments from yahoo news.

Though, consider some of the posts in this particular thread. It does seemed like these things had shape people's perception of the Japaneses.

 

[TheLuffySmile]

Personally I think it looks just as badass now as it did before, but people didn't need to get so butthurt about the first Jolly Roger. If they took offense, they should have just researched the meaning of the Manji "卍" and stopped being such predjudiced baboons.

I myself am getting the Jolly Roger on my back at the age of 20.

 

[Razh]

Nope I never start the fire, I response to the fire that started. It wasn't that many years ago that people criticize how "white" of the world is naruto and there is no blacks in that world. Those accusation is beyond ridiculous.

Oh I agree. What's more, they criticized Kishi for making Cloud nins (especially Bee) a racial sterotype, which is ridiculous.

I remember even one guy commenting how he's disappointed Oda went racial, with Jeet and Abdullah being world known terrorists. Also funny.

But in this thread, only an explanation was required. Still, one advice for the thread starter. Google a little first and you'll probably come up with the answer pretty fast. For example, after googling "one piece whitebeard swastika", first result is OP wikia about Whitebeard pirates and there's a paragraph stating:

"Originally in the manga, a manji (卍) was behind the skull instead of a cross. The anime used the cross version from the beginning in order to avoid confusion with a swastika (卐), the symbol best known in Western societies from its association with the Nazi regime. The manji has a long history in many cultures as a religious symbol, and is distinguishable from the swastika by the direction of the angles. Despite this, in Shonen Jump #50 2006, Oda commented that from Chapter 434 onwards he would have to use the cross version of the flag in the manga as well, after being told to do so by the higher-ups at Shueisha."

 

[weixiaobao]

Oh I agree. What's more, they criticized Kishi for making Cloud nins (especially Bee) a racial sterotype, which is ridiculous.

I remember even one guy commenting how he's disappointed Oda went racial, with Jeet and Abdullah being world known terrorists. Also funny.

Am I being unfair to the thread starter, in a way, sure. But I have read way way way too many stupid comments (and in honest, I do think the question this thread is somewhat valid), it just that commutative frustration I had that result in the tone that I take in this thread.

But even go further, I did some goggling. And some website suggest that people like me should stop trying to reclaim the symbol and find other symbol to reclaim. That person said that symbol is forever stained with genocide and white supremacy. However, would we even have such debate about the cross or the American Flag or even the confederate flag. So why something is a controversial issue and something else isn't (like the cross)? These kind of questions do reflect human behaviors and our values. If Buddhism has a lot of power in this world, we would not have this discussion for sure.

 

[Ledoke]

That person said that symbol is forever stained with genocide and white supremacy.

I think you've found the dumbest person in the world, I wouldn't be surprised if that person also thought we should stop using the letter S and buttons because, hey, nazis also had those on their uniforms!...

 

[DEATHBOTT]

I myself am getting the Jolly Roger on my back at the age of 20.

are you getting the original or the bone one? i wouldn't recommend taking off you shirt in public if you get the original one tattooed haha

 

[TheLuffySmile]

are you getting the original or the bone one? i wouldn't recommend taking off you shirt in public if you get the original one tattooed haha

Haha the bone one! I wouldn't dare to get the original one, people lack knowledge concerning the Manji. They'd probably physically assault me ^^

 

[Akai]

in Viz's release of volume 18 when we first see Ace eating it has an editor note at the bottom of the panel saying "The symbol on his back is an ancient Buddhist symbol not a swastika" not sure if this was clarified by the japanese side.

 

[weixiaobao]

in Viz's release of volume 18 when we first see Ace eating it has an editor note at the bottom of the panel saying "The symbol on his back is an ancient Buddhist symbol not a swastika" not sure if this was clarified by the japanese side.

Actually they don't need to, at least my generation knows what it is.

Though, now that I am thinking about it. Maybe, because since Japan played a heavy role in WW2 and there is an effort of erasing this 3000 years old symbol. So I supposed newer generation may grow up not knowing what it is.

---------- Post added at 03:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:39 AM ----------

I think you've found the dumbest person in the world, I wouldn't be surprised if that person also thought we should stop using the letter S and buttons because, hey, nazis also had those on their uniforms!...

lol, the problem is exactly that. If this person want to stop using the letter S, at least, it would be logically consistent. I don't like hypocrisy. This thread is becoming less and less about One Piece (partly my fault). But I will make my last point on this thread here, this is like GOP is anti big government except about regulating the bed room, woman's body, subsidies to big business, wars, etc. When people are logically consistent, we can see the absurdness of it much easier.

To be honest, I thought the holy cross is much more associate with white supremacy. I don't want to diss the religion, but it is in history. Using the name of Christianity, the West must educated the inferior heathens of the East (and I already mentioned the KKK). But any logical person know, we have to take in account of intention and context to pass judgement. A cross of the KKK is different than the cross that Pope Francis believe in.

 

[BulaNe]

I don't think it's necessary to dramatize it so much. OP comes from europe, aside from WW2 connection, swatikas (manjis, whatever) don't appear here much you know. It's not much of a christian thing and europe's been... sort of a christian continent last 2k years. Maybe OP was too uninformed for your taste, but come on. It's like giving a lecture to Hindu *gasping* in front of McDonald's...

 

[RichardMNixon]

aybe OP was too uninformed for your taste

Haha, for a moment I thought you were suggesting One Piece came from Europe; I was a little concerned for your sanity. I follow now.
Yeah, it's definitely not a big deal. Oda drew what he wanted, the publisher asked him to change it, he did, OP learned something. Not much more to it than that.

 

[BulaNe]

Haha, for a moment I thought you were suggesting One Piece came from Europe; I was a little concerned for your sanity. I follow now.
Yeah, it's definitely not a big deal. Oda drew what he wanted, the publisher asked him to change it, he did, OP learned something. Not much more to it than that.

O_o dayum, that eluded my attention.

 

[weixiaobao]

Maybe OP was too uninformed for your taste, but come on. It's like giving a lecture to Hindu *gasping* in front of McDonald's...

hmm, maybe you should read what I wrote. The fact that you make that post prove that you didn't read anything. I clearly repeated state that he is the "norm." Do you need me to define for you what is the norm? Hmm, because you state basically what I stated. I didn't get angry over the fact that he ignorant of the matter. I am a little upset that he suggest someone else is a racist. He can revise his intentions however he wants. I can merely say something that suggest that you are something. And then when you press me on it, and then I can well I didn't meant that I meant this. Such tactic is argument 101.

And you did see, most of my upset didn't stem from him. IF you had read the post, but you didn't or you didn't understand what I typed. My upset come from an academic such as my professor and some blogger. These people should have done their research. Even if they didn't. Once I explain to them, they should fact check it.

And one person, even know what the symbol is. State well, don't try to regain that symbol because it is such and such.

Next time, if you are addressing me. Read, I am addressing multiple people and not just OP. OP is just one random person. I wouldn't have this reaction if I had not read all of the stupid comments people made.

 

[BetaRuler]

id have thought as soon as it was pointed out that it wasn't the swastika, that this thread would be done and die XD

like really, end of story, XD