Predictions White's redemption (colored turtle theory)

[Jack Van Burace]

Ok, so far we have evidence that besides the core 3 (Rak, Bam and AA) we will eventually have Wangnan joining this group as an epic imortal Scout. These characters are all epic in their own way and share protagonism capabilities. Also, they are all named by Rak as colored turtles:
Blue Turtle (epic support Light Bearer Koon Aguero Agnis)
Black Turtle (epic irregular Wave Controller with admin powers 25th Bam)
Yellow Turtle (epic imortal Scout Jah Wangnan with an item from HF)
Red Turtle (best guide in whole Tower, able to guide even an Irregular's fate, Hwaryun)
Crocodile (epic Spear Bearer with a bloodline of the Native Ancient One)

So we are missing a Fisherman in this group, an epic one. As much as Bam can fulfill this role too eventually, I think he suits more the Wave Controller role. And both Androssi and Anak ain't colored turtles or epic for any reason (yet). Androssi is Big Eyes, and Anak is Lizard. Rak hasn't decreed them as such.

So far SIU gave us 3 primary colors and Black. Makes Sense to me If the last Turtle is the White Turtle. And Just so happens that it's the evilest unreedemable character in the Tower, can't be a protagonist or even friends with Bam, can he? White Turtle is already White's seat, but nothing can be done for him, unless...

Yes, I do think there might be a way for this yet to work. SIU gave us that breach already. It is simple: Hell Joe's character shift ever since the Fusion with Red Thryssa. All SIU would have to do is, by the time Bam starts learning How to Deal with these inner demons, to manage a way for Hoaqin to dispell the Lich King's influence as well and get Hoaqin miraculously to his "former self". We know he was a boy eager to please his father and that he was trusted by his brothers and sisters. Hon pushed Hoaqin where he went and all we need is a revelation that he wasn't really wicked before getting fused with that Demon he currently holds. Voilá, all his crimes become the creature's crimes, White's character changes overnight to its opposite and he vows to help Bam in Exchange for freeing his mind.

White is indeed an epic Fisherman, he can use Arie Swordmanship as well as spells and has the moves and skills of a High Ranker. Even Kheil is afraid of his potential. He is also a direct descendant of Arie Hon and can compensate his non irregularity with being a Fusion of several brothers, all direct descendants. Upon mastering the creature he would have an even greater potential and be unjustly sought by Jahad and the princesses for crimes he didn't actually commit, since he wouldn't have been really himself all this time (mind Winter Soldier backstory).

I can even assume Elaine could end up becoming this team's Anima as Green Turtle, but we need a Fisherman Turtle. White is too evil, It Just might be SIU taking us one way to surprise us afterwards.

 

[Echizen_Akira]

Unless he spits Prince back out I don't see it happening, even if the demon was controlling him.

And Rak's names can be all over the place. He's called:
Rachel "Yellow turtle"
Wangnan "Curry turtle" On his first meeting and other occasions.
And Koon "White turtle" multiple times.



I actually think Fisherman suits Baam better, his style seems more like Eurassia Blossom (attack orientated rather than support and controlling the flow of battle) he tends to fight close range more often than not. He's learned multiple martial arts. Has reinforcement on par with the blood tamara. Though ultimately I think Androssi is the most likely.

 

[Wha]

So we are missing a Fisherman in this group, an epic one. As much as Bam can fulfill this role too eventually, I think he suits more the Wave Controller role.

Look at Data Zahard and Bam's fight. Although Zahard is a fisherman, he did a pretty fine job as a wave controller. Since Bam can create Bangs that are outside of his vision and further away, he could easily fulfill both roles at the same time.

can't be a protagonist or even friends with Bam, can he?

It worked out for Beta.

Yes, I do think there might be a way for this yet to work. SIU gave us that breach already. It is simple: Hell Joe's character shift ever since the Fusion with Red Thryssa. All SIU would have to do is, by the time Bam starts learning How to Deal with these inner demons, to manage a way for Hoaqin to dispell the Lich King's influence as well and get Hoaqin miraculously to his "former self".

Hm. Ok, so let's say there is a way to destroy / ban the influence of the demon residing in him and he is back to his old self - so we have the Hoaqin kid (and his siblings) that want(s) to be as strong / stronger than his father, the unreachable sword. Which puts us back to square one, because that's the main thing with White / Hoaqin - he (they) wants power. The Demon might be responsible for his hunger, but He devours souls to get more power, to fly higher and higher until he catches up to his father - if he doesn't do it souls, i think that he would do it by any means necessary.
As long as he only cares about getting as strong as his father, i doubt that him and Bam will ever get along. If he does so and get's less selfish / more empathic, i could see Bam forgiving him (like he always does).

 

[kkck]

I actually think Fisherman suits Baam better, his style seems more like Eurassia Blossom (attack orientated rather than support and controlling the flow of battle) he tends to fight close range more often than not. He's learned multiple martial arts. Has reinforcement on par with the blood tamara. Though ultimately I think Androssi is the most likely.

That's a weird point considering eurasia is decidedly NOT a fisherman. and bam's reinforcement being stronger than blood tamara is a meaningless feat. Baragav is a mere C class regular... That's kinda like bam beating an unranked regular at arm wrestling. It merely means he beat an unranked regular at arm wresting, it doesn't mean bam is a physical power house. Bam is able to fight at close range but he still does not fight the same way a fisherman does. His actual physical strength (as in, without reinforcement) is likely still subpar compared to most regulars and even when fighting at close range he relies more on shinsoo related techniques than simply punching. Even the ranker he bested recently was defeated by bam's strongest variation of the floral butterfly, which requires zero strength. Bam probably still does not have the specs to be a traditional fisherman at least.

A for white being redeemed... I doubt it. The guy is too old and too insane. And his insanity is fueled not only by the darkness which hon encouraged but also by his hunger for souls. I am inclined to thinking white will either remain as he is or bam will break the spell on him, at which point hoaquin's siblings can potentially join bam. Maybe if the spell is broken hoaquin will regain some manner of sanity as he'd be without his hunger.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 28, 2019, Original Post Date: Aug 28, 2019 ---

As for bam's team.... the floor of test cast has plenty going for it in regards of position. They aren't exactly lacking on that regard. And teams aren't made of solely one of each for that matter. The actual reality right now is:

Fisherman:
Androsi
Anak

Scout:
Hockney
Leesoo
Hatz

Spearbearer:
Rak

Wave controller
Bam
Laure

Lightbearer:
Aguero

If you look at that... what the gang is missing isn't fishermans but rather spear and lightbearers. And then you consider that people in bam's group are able to performs multiple positions:

Rak is a spearbearer but his stone shinsoo and high physical ability combined would probably allow him to function as a fisherman. Add to that his stone shield which should allow him to function as a defender.

Aguero has ideal specks for a spearbearer. In terms of sheer talent he probably surpasses rak in this regard. He has high physical specks as well so he could probably pull off fisherman-scout if he works on it more.

Anak was able to use up to four bangs back during the workshop battle. As far as I can tell this is the most anyone has shown in that regard among bam's friends after bam and laure obviously. Of course, she probably has more bangs now.

Hatz was about comparable to aguero in terms of physical strength back at the name hunt station and he held his ground against a princess thanks to his swordsmanship... So he'd probably make a passable fisherman provided he isn't up against someone who is BS like a princess.

So.... what the gang lacks the most is light bearers in general.

 

[TheLastMartian]

Look at Data Zahard and Bam's fight. Although Zahard is a fisherman, he did a pretty fine job as a wave controller. Since Bam can create Bangs that are outside of his vision and further away, he could easily fulfill both roles at the same time.

Well in their fight I would say neither were a certain role. The roles are meant for team fights or fights against monsters. They had some close up fights and some shinsoo only clashes (cosmos v stardust for example).

Both Bamm and Zahard were able to create multiple bangs. If you look at the most recent fight against the ranker he also made multiple bangs and Bam countered them with his own.

It's been said that all rankers are able to control Shinsoo, but not all regulars can. Rachel was surprised when Koon and Rak were able to use shinsoo.

I am sure Gustang could beat most fisherman rankers in melee if he wanted to with just his fighting skill, the same way Urek could beat most ranked wave controllers in a ranged Shinsoo only fight.

I am sure most rankers could fill any role at least as good as a B or maybe even A level regular (since we don't exactly know the cutoff point of C rank B rank A rank, I am assuming A rank is probably like floors 115 - 134).

The whole roles thing seems useless in 1 on 1's. Baylord Paul is a scout but he is able to fight as a fisherman using a reel (maybe it was just his shinsoo) and easily beat other rankers and regulars with 0 effort as a high ranker v them.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 28, 2019, Original Post Date: Aug 28, 2019 ---

So.... what the gang lacks the most is light bearers in general.

RACHEL!!!

 

[Jack Van Burace]

If we want Lightbearers, we have: Xiaxia, Goseng and Aguero. Goseng sucks, but Xiaxia was able to fight along Bam and beat Ran and Novick. She also managed to setup Aguero in the Hand of Arlene and her loyalty is with her God: Jyu Viole Grace. She is both smart and capable, and a true member of Bam's team by now.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 28, 2019, Original Post Date: Aug 28, 2019 ---

Unless Ran and Novick Join in, what we miss here are Spear Bearers.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 28, 2019 ---

Scouts: Leesoo, Hatz, Hockney

Fisherman: Androssi, Elaine, Anak

Spear Bearers: Rak, Ran, Novick

Wave Controllers: Bam, Yihwa, Laure

Lightbearers: Aguero, Xiaxia

Guide: Hwaryun

If Hwaryun can replace a Lightbearer with her Guide foresight, then we got 3 viable teams. Ir 1 triple team.

 

[kkck]

If we want Lightbearers, we have: Xiaxia, Goseng and Aguero. Goseng sucks, but Xiaxia was able to fight along Bam and beat Ran and Novick. She also managed to setup Aguero in the Hand of Arlene and her loyalty is with her God: Jyu Viole Grace. She is both smart and capable, and a true member of Bam's team by now.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 28, 2019, Original Post Date: Aug 28, 2019 ---

Unless Ran and Novick Join in, what we miss here are Spear Bearers.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 28, 2019 ---

Scouts: Leesoo, Hatz, Hockney

Fisherman: Androssi, Elaine, Anak

Spear Bearers: Rak, Ran, Novick

Wave Controllers: Bam, Yihwa, Laure

Lightbearers: Aguero, Xiaxia

Guide: Hwaryun

If Hwaryun can replace a Lightbearer with her Guide foresight, then we got 3 viable teams. Ir 1 triple team.

Goseng is a solid 20 floors behind the gang. While the gang is comfortably climbing the tower extremely fast. Bam climbed something 6-8 floors in the two years since the last station. And that is while training with evankhel. Even if she had it in her to do 1 month per floor, which I'd argue she doesn't, it'd take her almost 2 years to catch up to bam. If it's 2 months per floor, which is insanely fast even with a competent team, it'd take her 4 years. And that is just to reach where bam is currently, bam would have to stop for all this time... Otherwise goseng simply wouldn't catch up to him ever.

Yihwa is a fisherman, though I suppose she could function as a wave controller given her flames. We know yeon was a wave controller of course but I am not clear on whether yihwa could do the same.

Ran, novick and xia xia are viable team mates though I never saw them quite as part of bam's team.

I don't think hwa ryun could replace a light bearer. Being a lightbearer involves complex calculation using lighthouses and different varieties of support... A guide sounds like something that would work best as a scout and in providing a lightbearer with information and even solutions. Can hwa ryun even use a lighthouse? It is also worth noting that hwa ryun isn't a regular. She isn't getting any contracts as she climbs and even SIU has made the point she is weak compared to other regulars. Her foresight is useful but she is doomed to be too weak to be actually helpful in combat sooner or later.

 

[Wha]

Wave Controllers: Bam, Yihwa, Laure

Not sure if Yihwa isn't a fisherman though. I would put Bam into this group as well (wave controller & fisherman), like Khun could be considered a spear bearer as well or Ran is a really strong fisherman (especially with his redan thing).

Her foresight is useful but she is doomed to be too weak to be actually helpful in combat sooner or later.

The fight between Hoaqin and Androssi clearly indicates otherwise. In a game it would be like cheating, looking into the cards of the opponent. That's quite the advantage.
It's also hard to say if she can use items like the frog thing from Evan. If so, that could make her even more useful despite being a weak fighter herself.

 

[Jack Van Burace]

If Yihwa is a Fisherman, then Anak is a Spear Bearer. Yihwa is an offensive Wave Controller, but I can't see her as a Fisherman. Although seemingly flawless in Battle, she was caught by Snake guy easily. A Fisherman needs balanced skills to sustain the vanguard without getting caught easily.

 

[kkck]

If Yihwa is a Fisherman, then Anak is a Spear Bearer. Yihwa is an offensive Wave Controller, but I can't see her as a Fisherman. Although seemingly flawless in Battle, she was caught by Snake guy easily. A Fisherman needs balanced skills to sustain the vanguard without getting caught easily.

Eh, yihwa is a fisherman, that's been explicitly said in the series. Yihwa would certainly be a different type of fisherman from androsi or anak but she definitely has the specks for it.

 

[TheMoa]

Anaak played spear bearer back on the workshop Arc (I think It Was on her First fight with Ran). Só she could shift to that position in case of need.

 

[kkck]

Anaak played spear bearer back on the workshop Arc (I think It Was on her First fight with Ran). Só she could shift to that position in case of need.

To me that is a bit of a weird scene. It's... rare to see a spear bearer with a reel. Reels are more commonly used with hooks and needles so far. Anak did throw the spear but that is a different thing from her actually qualifying as a spear bearer. That moment could have been the result of improvisation.... and I'd argue that anak's use of 4 bangs at that time is more impressive than her spear bearing at least.

 

[Jack Van Burace]

To me that is a bit of a weird scene. It's... rare to see a spear bearer with a reel. Reels are more commonly used with hooks and needles so far. Anak did throw the spear but that is a different thing from her actually qualifying as a spear bearer. That moment could have been the result of improvisation.... and I'd argue that anak's use of 4 bangs at that time is more impressive than her spear bearing at least.

It might Just be the fact that Fisherman need to perform at least well in all classes. Androssi's quality mastering could also be regarded as a Wave Controller type of thing If we think abt, but its totally pro Fisherman.

 

[kkck]

It might Just be the fact that Fisherman need to perform at least well in all classes. Androssi's quality mastering could also be regarded as a Wave Controller type of thing If we think abt, but its totally pro Fisherman.

I wouldn't go that far. The issue is that positions don't fully apply to combat between people, it applies to fighting shineuh and floor tests. in that regard, in combat with a person androsi's quality would appear to serve a function similar to that of a wave controller but if you placed her in a situation where position was actually important odds are her needles would lack if she has to replace a wave controller. to me her shinsoo quality properties are more akin to a reel with needles than spears or wave controlling...

 

[shaheer]

So.... what the gang lacks the most is light bearers in general.

QFT, Androssi has become a regular since the mid of S2 she is ideally suited as fisherman in the group. Also you dont need a all position squad if you have a frigging OP irregular like what Bam is about to become. Urek is just one man army Baek just takes care of the group as a sensible leader. AA fits the bill perfectly in conjunction with Raks timely moral and reality check headbuts which reorients a paranoid AA down to reality.
I hope White isnt redeemed he can be an ally for time being and 'not a concern' for the rest of the period but this old school shonen steriotype of getting redeemed is too overused. Srsly the only time it worked for me was with Vegeta and that was a LOOOOONG time ago. Naruto has made this stereotype utterly intolerable

 

[toil]

Devil’s advocate: Androssi/Anak/Ship/Hatsu etc haven’t had a lightbearer since before the workshop arc, it’s not a problem, no one cares, and so on.

Just sayin’!

 

[Jack Van Burace]

Devil’s advocate: Androssi/Anak/Ship/Hatsu etc haven’t had a lightbearer since before the workshop arc, it’s not a problem, no one cares, and so on.

Just sayin’!

Tbh I think Leesoo was filling the role of Lightbearer, but with pocket com instead of actually seeing what was going on. Hatz was their Scout, Amigochaz was their close range Spear Bearer adaptation and Leesoo was their Lightbearer. High Rankers can all play Lightbearer If they want even If they won't start using a Lighthouse all of a sudden. There's more to being a Lightbearer position than Just holding a Lighthouse, its about the orchestrating of a team while supporting with skills and managing big data. Its the "Nerd in a chair" backing the "heroes". Lighthouses make ones ability at doing this above all other classes, but the other classes can do that role on a minor scale without the Lighthouse If they are talented.

 

[toil]

Tbh I think Leesoo was filling the role of Lightbearer, but with pocket com instead of actually seeing what was going on. Hatz was their Scout, Amigochaz was their close range Spear Bearer adaptation and Leesoo was their Lightbearer

I agree that's the reality: Leesoo isn’t a light bearer but fulfilled the same role. In any case I see Repellista as a dark horse candidate for one of Baam’s eventual lightbearers, assuming she ever climbs.

 

[TheMoa]

I agree that's the reality: Leesoo isn’t a light bearer but fulfilled the same role. In any case I see Repellista as a dark horse candidate for one of Baam’s eventual lightbearers, assuming she ever climbs.

I dont see It cuz, as you Said, she never climbed. Baam is climbing on a Record breaking Speed.. for she to be part of Baam's team, we would need a long flashfoward after Baam gets to the top. The way SIU hás been speedin up Baam development.. I dont see he wandering too much after getting to the top of the Tower (maybe Just enough tô unlock floor 135).

I could be wrong though

 

[Wha]

I agree that's the reality: Leesoo isn’t a light bearer but fulfilled the same role. In any case I see Repellista as a dark horse candidate for one of Baam’s eventual lightbearers, assuming she ever climbs.

I don't think she has to, since she has an opera and made Yuri send Urek to get the Zygena. So even if she doesn't leave her room, she could be a great asset. Although i am not really sure about her real goal or on what side she really is on (or will be).