Discussion Who is stronger than Luffy?

[Shinobuden]

I think some people underestimate the strength of New World pirates. The New World is even more cruel and unforgiving than Paradise, the storms and season changes in Paradise pales in comparison to the New World (gravity even reverses there for crying out loud) so it only makes sense the pirates there have the physical strength and mental fortitude to sail there.

Luffy's gotten stronger and he has Haki now on top of that but he's still nothing more than a newcomer in the New World, so I think even Luffy would have trouble against New World veterans. Naturally this is just an assumption as we've seen Luffy emerge victorious against overwhelming odds before.

 

[mattiaildivino]

I see that a lot of you guys consider law and kid stronger than rufy. bu that's clearly impossible,imo. although their bounties might have surpassed rufy's,that doesn't mean they are stronger than him. Kid's bounty was higher than him but,as shakky told the SH,the onlt supernovas worthy of being an over 300 M was rufy. thereby rufy spent 2 years in training,while the others went on with their plans. so rufy now must be even stronger than them,although they should know NW better than him.

 

[hoeru]

I'm just throwing in a list of known characters:

After the Timeskip, currently while on Punk Hazard:

• Kizaru
• Sakazuki
• Kuzan
• Rayleigh
• Marco
• Blackbeard
• Shanks
• Bigmom
• Kaidou
• Mihawk
• Vista
• Siliew
• Doflamingo

I simply don't expect Luffy to beat them now since they have been classified as ubermonsters. Either their DF powers or their haki strength and experience is too much ahead of Luffy - or they are simply the absolute experts with their fighting skills even from what we've seen before the timeskip. I'm not trying to lower neither the training itself nor the trainers nor the trainees. It's just that Luffy (and his crew) still need some development.

Therefore, I'd say that the Sabaody rookie crews ("The Eleven Supernovae") are also still rivals on par to Luffy and his crew, while I'm curious why Oda let Bonney out of Sakazuki's grip - and how she did this. That could possibly make her the biggest and strongest of Luffy's rivals.

 

[mattiaildivino]

I don't understand why you guys put mihawk and doflamingo above the other shichibukais... except mihawk,I don't see them so strong. I also thought tha kuma would be the strongest amongst them because he can teleport,possesses a powerful DF,and can also use kizaru's beams

 

[Zehahaha]

I think some people underestimate the strength of New World pirates. The New World is even more cruel and unforgiving than Paradise, the storms and season changes in Paradise pales in comparison to the New World (gravity even reverses there for crying out loud) so it only makes sense the pirates there have the physical strength and mental fortitude to sail there.

Luffy's gotten stronger and he has Haki now on top of that but he's still nothing more than a newcomer in the New World, so I think even Luffy would have trouble against New World veterans. Naturally this is just an assumption as we've seen Luffy emerge victorious against overwhelming odds before.

Yeah, I recall back at East Blue how " Paradise " was hyped and stuff... It turned out to be a nice sea. So seriously, all the hyping shouldn't be taken so seriously by readers.
Sure NW is scary, and different from Paradise, but all that hyping was from the perspective of shitty pirates (Like the one Kidd's caught), and also, from the few scenes at the war showcasing the strenght of the NW's captains, they weren't that impressive at all.

 

[Shinobuden]

Yeah, I recall back at East Blue how " Paradise " was hyped and stuff... It turned out to be a nice sea. So seriously, all the hyping shouldn't be taken so seriously by readers.
Sure NW is scary, and different from Paradise, but all that hyping was from the perspective of shitty pirates (Like the one Kidd's caught), and also, from the few scenes at the war showcasing the strenght of the NW's captains, they weren't that impressive at all.

I think it's still too early to assume the pirates in the NW won't present any challenge. I agree the showcasing during the war wasn't too impressive but I hardly think the captains shown there are enough to represent the majority of pirates that most likely inhabit the NW. And let's not forget the Straw Hats are still only on their first island there.

I have to disagree with Paradise being a "nice" sea however. Take Don Krieg for example, his fleet got cut up by Mihawk AND was hit by a storm out of nowhere. Brook's crew was hit by a disease which forced the remaining uninfected crew to leave Yorki and the other infected crew members behind only to later be attacked by enemy pirates who had coated their weapons with poison, killing the remaining crew members and Brook himself. Each of these pirate crews were strong in their own right but there's *always* someone stronger.

It may have been interpreted as a "nice" sea when seen in Luffy and co's point of view but the Straw Hats have an outstanding navigator on their side who can sense the weather and avoid cyclones while having a 41 degree fever, not all captains have that kind of luxury on their side...you've seen what the rest of the Straw Hats can do, just used Nami as an example for the weather.

Just my two cents.

 

[Zehahaha]

I think it's still too early to assume the pirates in the NW won't present any challenge. I agree the showcasing during the war wasn't too impressive but I hardly think the captains shown there are enough to represent the majority of pirates that most likely inhabit the NW. And let's not forget the Straw Hats are still only on their first island there.

I have to disagree with Paradise being a "nice" sea however. Take Don Krieg for example, his fleet got cut up by Mihawk AND was hit by a storm out of nowhere. Brook's crew was hit by a disease which forced the remaining uninfected crew to leave Yorki and the other infected crew members behind only to later be attacked by enemy pirates who had coated their weapons with poison, killing the remaining crew members and Brook himself. Each of these pirate crews were strong in their own right but there's *always* someone stronger.

It may have been interpreted as a "nice" sea when seen in Luffy and co's point of view but the Straw Hats have an outstanding navigator on their side who can sense the weather and avoid cyclones while having a 41 degree fever, not all captains have that kind of luxury on their side...you've seen what the rest of the Straw Hats can do, just used Nami as an example for the weather.

Just my two cents.

But this whole adventure it's from the point of view of the SH's... I don't give a flying fuck about Krieg & co...
The adventure in the NW will be from the point of view of the SH's...

 

[Shinobuden]

But this whole adventure it's from the point of view of the SH's... I don't give a flying fuck about Krieg & co...
The adventure in the NW will be from the point of view of the SH's...

Alright. I was merely trying to put up a good debate.

 

[Zehahaha]

Alright. I was merely trying to put up a good debate.

I know that, but I just wanted to say, for Krieg or any shitty pirate, Paradise is hell etc.
But honestly, from the point of view of the SH's, it was never like that.

I do expect the NW to be something else, but it will not be like how other shitty pirate were hyping it, that's why I said we shouldn't take their words literally. What they may see as hell, Luffy may see it as paradise.

 

[Shinobuden]

I know that, but I just wanted to say, for Krieg or any shitty pirate, Paradise is hell etc.
But honestly, from the point of view of the SH's, it was never like that.

I do expect the NW to be something else, but it will not be like how other shitty pirate were hyping it, that's why I said we shouldn't take their words literally. What they may see as hell, Luffy may see it as paradise.

True enough, good point too. I've yet to see anything that scares Luffy, if you don't count angry Nami or Garp.

 

[Great Potato]

I'm including dead characters too

Spoiler

-Dragon
-Kong
-Sengoku
-Akainu
-Aokiji
-Kizaru
-Garp
-Tsuru
-John Giant
-Onigumo
-Doberman
-Mihawk
-Doflamingo
-Hancock
-Whitebeard
-Marco
-Jozu
-Vista
-Ace
-Squardo
-Oars Jr.
-Kaidou
-Big Mom
-Bobbins
-Shanks
-Beckmann
-Lucky Roo
-Yasopp
-Blackbeard
-Shiliew
-Roger
-Rayleigh
-Scopper

 

[GomuGomu_Getsuga]

Akainu
Kizaru
Aokiji
Kaido
BlackBeard
Gol D. Roger
WhiteBeard
Dragon

I also believe Luffy can defeat any one of these opponents if he gets serious.

 

[Curtarc]

I don't think Luffy has reached the level of strength of the guys at the very top of the food chain. Characters like Aokiji, Kizaru, Akainu, Whitebeard, Blackbeard, Dragon, Roger, etc still have the upper hand in terms of experience and raw power. However I think that's fine, it just gives a good margin of progress left for Luffy until he reaches that level. We are still far from the end of the manga, it would be strange if, at this point, Luffy was at the level of these monsters. I am pretty sure we can expect a couple more power upgrades as he travels around the New World.

 

[SlayerKisame]

I don't think Luffy has reached the level of strength of the guys at the very top of the food chain. Characters like Aokiji, Kizaru, Akainu, Whitebeard, Blackbeard, Dragon, Roger, etc still have the upper hand in terms of experience and raw power. However I think that's fine, it just gives a good margin of progress left for Luffy until he reaches that level. We are still far from the end of the manga, it would be strange if, at this point, Luffy was at the level of these monsters. I am pretty sure we can expect a couple more power upgrades as he travels around the New World.

I don't get how you could think that.

Alright, let's look at this from a third person perspective. Everyone was going about their duties during the timeskip. Sure, the pirates/marines may have gotten stronger, but nobody trained as hard as Luffy. He restrained himself to an island, got a PhD in all studies of haki, and now probably knows everything, literally everything about his DF. Keep in mind Luffy spent 2 full years in training. Why would he quit the training if he was not even strong enough to kill the guy who killed his brother?

 

[Curtarc]

I don't get how you could think that.

Alright, let's look at this from a third person perspective. Everyone was going about their duties during the timeskip. Sure, the pirates/marines may have gotten stronger, but nobody trained as hard as Luffy. He restrained himself to an island, got a PhD in all studies of haki, and now probably knows everything, literally everything about his DF. Keep in mind Luffy spent 2 full years in training. Why would he quit the training if he was not even strong enough to kill the guy who killed his brother?

It's a personal conviction really, there's no proof to back up my theory of Luffy not being at the level of the guys at the top of the food chain(since he hasn't fought anyone close to their level since he finished his training) but the same applies to the claim that he's already at their level. I believe we haven't seen everything he has learned from his training and I also believe he will learn something new along the way(mangas like these usually see their main characters evolving as time goes by) but as I said before, I can't prove what I am saying, it's just a feeling.

 

[Dice]

I don't get how you could think that.

Alright, let's look at this from a third person perspective. Everyone was going about their duties during the timeskip. Sure, the pirates/marines may have gotten stronger, but nobody trained as hard as Luffy. He restrained himself to an island, got a PhD in all studies of haki, and now probably knows everything, literally everything about his DF. Keep in mind Luffy spent 2 full years in training. Why would he quit the training if he was not even strong enough to kill the guy who killed his brother?

The training was merely to survive in the new world which none of them would have for a long time. I don't won't to say that he is a weak or something but I'd say he is not even close to defeat the likes of Akainu he will just not die almost instantly and might very well be able to put up a fight. Especially plot wise it wouldn't make that much sense if he is able to fight one of the top dogs of the marines. Hell Akainu might be even the strongest person of the marines.
I see the training just as a tool to close the gap he experienced in the war not to surpass everybody. The last progress to be strong enough to beat them will be gained through his journey.

 

[Jirachier]

Characters who are still stronger than Luffy: the admirals, the emperors, the emperors's lieutenants, garp, mihawk, rayleigh, marco, kong, sengoku, dragon.

I also do not think that the other supernovas are on par with Luffy, even before the timeskip Luffy was already stronger than all of them and the only reason why Kidd
had a slightly higher bounty than him was because he was hurting civilians, and while they were splitting their time between training and exploring the new world
luffy was focusing all of his attention on training so the obvious conclusion is that luffy is stronger than the supernovas by quite a margin, not that they are weak.
The same thing is valid for Smoker, he was only beating Luffy because the later was unable to land a hit on his logia body, but now not only did he gain the ability
to hit logia users he also improved his devil fruits powers and gained haki of observation, luffy is definitely stronger than Smoker.
Lucci and Luffy were almost on par before the timeskip but now it's clear that Luffy is much stronger than him, you can't except every person that luffy has fought
in the past to have the same growth rate as he does otherwise everyone will become admiral-level by the end of the serie
Ivankov is also not stronger than luffy, we've seen his fight with Magellan and he didn't really have more luck than luffy did, they were probably on the same level back then, now luffy is stronger.
Also the emperors are do not hold that title just because they have large territories and soldiers, it's also because they are exceedinly powerful, look at Shanks, Whitebeard, Blackbeard
you can't expect the soldiers, especially pirates to follow someone who is weaker than the are, and we all know that in OP massive numbers of fighters isn't what determines
the outcome of a battle, it's the strength of the top fighters, the strawhats vs the fishermen is a good example of how 10 people defeated an entire army and it wasn't that hard for them to do so,
and the argument that in the NW the pirates are stronger than the ones in the first part of the grand line isn't valid, we've all seen these pirates fight in the war of the best, besides their captains who were
probably each on par with a vice admiral(remember that before the timeskip luffy could defeat multiple vice admirals by himself) they weren't that strong, and i know that the pirates that were present
were only a few crews of all the ones in the NW but it was explicitly said that they were veterans of the NW, they still lost consciousness to Luffy's haki even before
he gained control over it so my guess is, in the NW there is more top tiers pirates but the foot soldiers level is still not high enough to pose a threat.

 

[abc1233]

Characters who are still stronger than Luffy: the admirals, the emperors, the emperors's lieutenants, garp, mihawk, rayleigh, marco, kong, sengoku, dragon.

I also do not think that the other supernovas are on par with Luffy, even before the timeskip Luffy was already stronger than all of them and the only reason why Kidd
had a slightly higher bounty than him was because he was hurting civilians, and while they were splitting their time between training and exploring the new world
luffy was focusing all of his attention on training so the obvious conclusion is that luffy is stronger than the supernovas by quite a margin, not that they are weak.
The same thing is valid for Smoker, he was only beating Luffy because the later was unable to land a hit on his logia body, but now not only did he gain the ability
to hit logia users he also improved his devil fruits powers and gained haki of observation, luffy is definitely stronger than Smoker.
Lucci and Luffy were almost on par before the timeskip but now it's clear that Luffy is much stronger than him, you can't except every person that luffy has fought
in the past to have the same growth rate as he does otherwise everyone will become admiral-level by the end of the serie
Ivankov is also not stronger than luffy, we've seen his fight with Magellan and he didn't really have more luck than luffy did, they were probably on the same level back then, now luffy is stronger.
Also the emperors are do not hold that title just because they have large territories and soldiers, it's also because they are exceedinly powerful, look at Shanks, Whitebeard, Blackbeard
you can't expect the soldiers, especially pirates to follow someone who is weaker than the are, and we all know that in OP massive numbers of fighters isn't what determines
the outcome of a battle, it's the strength of the top fighters, the strawhats vs the fishermen is a good example of how 10 people defeated an entire army and it wasn't that hard for them to do so,
and the argument that in the NW the pirates are stronger than the ones in the first part of the grand line isn't valid, we've all seen these pirates fight in the war of the best, besides their captains who were
probably each on par with a vice admiral(remember that before the timeskip luffy could defeat multiple vice admirals by himself) they weren't that strong, and i know that the pirates that were present
were only a few crews of all the ones in the NW but it was explicitly said that they were veterans of the NW, they still lost consciousness to Luffy's haki even before
he gained control over it so my guess is, in the NW there is more top tiers pirates but the foot soldiers level is still not high enough to pose a threat.

It was so difficult reading your post lol

Firstly, I'd have to disagree with you on Iva. This is a person who is very highly ranked in the RA and is someone who could fight on par with a pacifista-enhanced Kuma. The more solid proof of him not being on the same level as Luffy is that he beat Sanji without breaking a sweat, can you honestly say that Luffy can do the same?

Also, when did Luffy beat multiple vice-admirals on his own? I can't remember such a thing occuring

The training was merely to survive in the new world which none of them would have for a long time. I don't won't to say that he is a weak or something but I'd say he is not even close to defeat the likes of Akainu he will just not die almost instantly and might very well be able to put up a fight. Especially plot wise it wouldn't make that much sense if he is able to fight one of the top dogs of the marines. Hell Akainu might be even the strongest person of the marines.
I see the training just as a tool to close the gap he experienced in the war not to surpass everybody. The last progress to be strong enough to beat them will be gained through his journey.

Right now you can't exactly back up that statement. We haven't seen Luffy pushed to his limits yet since the TS, nor have we seen him take on someone of Akainu's level. For all we know, he may not be that far off, he is expected to beat BM by the end of this saga anyway but who knows? It's Oda after all...

 

[Jirachier]

The 5 vice admirals of the Enies Lobbis arc weren't even able to capture Luffy that should be proof enough that he is already stronger than any vice admiral.
As for Iva Sanji is very strong but he's nowhere near Luffy strength and now after the timeskip both of are much stronger, I don't see Iva being stronger than they are.

 

[kkck]

^I don't think that is necessarily the case. The VAs at ennies lobby where there solely for the buster call. At no point they ever tried to get involved and most of them probably wouldn't have been able too. The odds of a VA actually being stronger than luffy are small IMO however I do think a few of them should be roughly even.

As for people currently stronger than luffy I would go for these guys:

- All three admirals
- Maybe a few VAs. Smoker should be close to a match to luffy and I do doubt smoker is the strongest of them considering his age.
- Marco, jozu and vista (I rate this guys at roughly the admiral level)
- Mihawk (match for shanks and the admirals IMO)
- Shanks
- garp
- the yonko. I guess there is the possibility that currently at least one of the yonko is actually at about luffy's level although the odds of that are slim
- A few of the commanders should be about as strong as luffy
- jinbe is equal to luffy
- Iva is a bit of a wildcard IMO however it wouldn't be strange to me if he was on the level or stronger than luffy. The guy actually kicked kuma's but a bit in a strictly non sexual way.
- Kuma should be stronger than luffy
- Hancock should be stronger than luffy IMO
- There should be several crews in the NW with captains as strong and perhaps stronger than luffy.