Discussion Who is stronger than Luffy?

[MiyamotoMusashi]

Yes. Sentomaru makes doubtful the idea that to be able to defend agains a df power with haki you have to be a high level fighter. Instead of that idea, it would be possible to say that in order to effectively be able to defend against a df power using haki, the difference in powers between the df fighter and the haki user has to be big enough. Put in the same ring the kid Luffy that just have eaten the gomu fruit (or even the Luffy from Romance Down times) and Tashigi from Punk Hazard times. Who do you think will win: the df power or the haki power? I would say, we can't be sure. But the fact that we can't be sure is evidence in favor of adopting that perspective.

Now that you mention it, is it that the reason why Luffy didn't get affected by Hancock's power? Because he didn't lust after her? Do you have a reference? It would be really funny thing. When we read FI arc, I was especulating that if Teach defeats Hancock and robs her fruit, we would have a severe tragedy in the manga, because it would be horrible if everyone there want to kiss such an ugly guy. But if the feeling of lust is a requisite, that wouldn't be a problem. Also that would be the weak point of Hancock's ability.

Sentoumaru can easily have a high level of Haki without being a high level fighter overall. He said that he has the best defense in the world which is doubtful of course but would still make sense considering that he is/was Vegapunk´s bodyguard and VP is very important to the WG.

Yes, Luffy had no lustful or impure thoughts about Hancock at all, that´s why her Mero Mero Beam did not work. Two panels http://www.mangastream.to/one-piece-chapter-516-page-18.html , http://www.mangastream.to/one-piece-chapter-518-page-6.html . Though i would not really call it a weakness. Mero Mero Beam is the only attack that requires the opponent having impure and lustful thoughts, every other attack works without that.
Lol, people lusting after BB.

 

[KuroKarasu]

I think some people overestimate luffy. Of course he has grown in those 2 years but I think there are still many unknown characters in the new world that are stronger than Luffy as well.

I personally think atleast Yonkou, Admirals, Dragon,Doflamingo, Kuma, Kong, maybe 1. commanders of Yonkou, Jack and some unknown guys are above him.

But some of them are at their maximum while Luffy keeps getting stronger and stronger. But if he was to challenge Doflamingo for example he would be beaten I guess. Luffy may be above Smoker for the first time - but Dofla DESTROYED smoker (granted he was weakened) and Luffy is not at that level yet.

 

[0Xellos]

I think some people overestimate luffy. Of course he has grown in those 2 years but I think there are still many unknown characters in the new world that are stronger than Luffy as well.

I personally think atleast Yonkou, Admirals, Dragon,Doflamingo, Kuma, Kong, maybe 1. commanders of Yonkou, Jack and some unknown guys are above him.

But some of them are at their maximum while Luffy keeps getting stronger and stronger. But if he was to challenge Doflamingo for example he would be beaten I guess. Luffy may be above Smoker for the first time - but Dofla DESTROYED smoker (granted he was weakened) and Luffy is not at that level yet.

Admirals, Yonkou, Dragon: most definitely. They're the top of the respective world powers. Still, I believe Luffy would at least be able to fight Dofla.
Luffy couldn't beat Smoker because he didn't have haki; right now, Luffy would pulverize Smoker with a barrage of haki-coated punches (as Vergo explained, Smoker going smoke makes it easy for those punches to connect). So using Smoker as comparison is not good
We could see a small repeat of Luffy vs Croc, just this time with the victory not based on Luffy exploiting Croc's natural weakness, but gradually getting stronger through multiple fights with Dofla, to the point when Dofla's finally beaten.

 

[KuroKarasu]

Admirals, Yonkou, Dragon: most definitely. They're the top of the respective world powers. Still, I believe Luffy would at least be able to fight Dofla.
Luffy couldn't beat Smoker because he didn't have haki; right now, Luffy would pulverize Smoker with a barrage of haki-coated punches (as Vergo explained, Smoker going smoke makes it easy for those punches to connect). So using Smoker as comparison is not good
We could see a small repeat of Luffy vs Croc, just this time with the victory not based on Luffy exploiting Croc's natural weakness, but gradually getting stronger through multiple fights with Dofla, to the point when Dofla's finally beaten.

I don't think Luffy would stomp Smoker just because of his Haki. Smoker is a strong fighter and knows how to use his devil fruit. He is fast aswell (he was strong even in Tashigis body). If Luffy was at Doflamingos Level I would be a bit disappointed though. I think Dofla and Mihawk are the known characters closest to the strenght of the Admiral/Yonkou.

 

[Azuma]

I think some people overestimate luffy. Of course he has grown in those 2 years but I think there are still many unknown characters in the new world that are stronger than Luffy as well.

I personally think atleast Yonkou, Admirals, Dragon,Doflamingo, Kuma, Kong, maybe 1. commanders of Yonkou, Jack and some unknown guys are above him.

But some of them are at their maximum while Luffy keeps getting stronger and stronger. But if he was to challenge Doflamingo for example he would be beaten I guess. Luffy may be above Smoker for the first time - but Dofla DESTROYED smoker (granted he was weakened) and Luffy is not at that level yet.

Who is Jack? I don't think Luffy would have too much trouble against Smoker, to be honest. Luffy should now be above him. As for Doflamingo stomping Smoker, it could also have been a match-up thing. Perhaps Dofla's DF is super effective against someone like Smoker. At the very least, Luffy's Haki puts him on par with people who would've destroyed him earlier in the series. Personally, I hope that there are people that are stronger than Luffy, otherwise it would become too boring. I don't think he can stand up to the top tier just yet, but probably will, soon.

Dofla was scared shitless by the prospect of Kaido coming after him. In other words, Dofla should be fodder to someone like Kaido. That says a lot about the Yonkou's strength.

 

[danzouismadara]

LAW, shanks, blackbeard, DD, Akainu, > Luffy.

Kidd, drake, kaido, big mam, apoo, kizaru, kuzan, shichibukai, fujitora= Luffy

Hawkins and other rookies< luffy.

 

[KuroKarasu]

LAW, shanks, blackbeard, DD, Akainu, > Luffy.

Kidd, drake, kaido, big mam, apoo, kizaru, kuzan, shichibukai, fujitora= Luffy

Hawkins and other rookies< luffy.

If 2 Yonkous and an Admiral were at Luffys level then this manga would be extremely boring now. He can't be anywhere near the Yonkou and Admiral strenght. (Ok, we don't know how strong Fujitora is but Kizaru and Aokiji are still stronger)

 

[Azuma]

LAW, shanks, blackbeard, DD, Akainu, > Luffy.

Kidd, drake, kaido, big mam, apoo, kizaru, kuzan, shichibukai, fujitora= Luffy

Hawkins and other rookies< luffy.

You are so far off it's not even funny. If Akainu were stronger than Kaido, then the Yonkou wouldn't be feared.

In terms of skills, Kuzan should be above Akainu. It took Akainu several days to overcome Kuzan, and he had a clear advantage because Akainu could melt the ice with ease. Had it not been for that decisive factor, I think Kuzan would've beaten Akainu.

For strange reasons, you've put Kid and Apoo above Hawkins. Why? We haven't seen anything that would imply that one is stronger than the other, except for bounties.

You've put Law as stronger than Kaido, yet Law is going through so much trouble to weaken Kaido and his Crew as well as team up with Luffy to actually stand a chance against him. Even then, Law has stated that there is a high chance that they would fail.

Clearly Kaido > Law.

Then, you've also put Doflamingo as stronger than Kaido. Yet when Doflamingo thought about the prospect of having Kaido come after him, he practically shat his pants. That shows that compared to Kaido, Doflamingo is practically nothing.

You've put Big Mom = Kid resp. Apoo, yet in order to stand a chance, Kid, Apoo and Hawkins have formed an alliance. Big Mom is thus much stronger than either of them.

I could go on and on but there's no need. Your list is nothing but flawed. It's probably only based on what characters you like.

---------- Post added at 11:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 AM ----------

If 2 Yonkous and an Admiral were at Luffys level then this manga would be extremely boring now. He can't be anywhere near the Yonkou and Admiral strenght. (Ok, we don't know how strong Fujitora is but Kizaru and Aokiji are still stronger)

Based on what? Perhaps Fujitora is stronger and that's why they thought he would be sufficient to cover the NW by himself while the rest were off to fight WB.

 

[KingOfNight]

Based on what? Perhaps Fujitora is stronger and that's why they thought he would be sufficient to cover the NW by himself while the rest were off to fight WB.

He meant that Kizaru and Aokiji are still stronger than LUFFY. Also, Fujitora wasn't an Admiral at that time, since there was only three of them.

 

[0Xellos]

LAW, shanks, blackbeard, DD, Akainu, > Luffy.

Kidd, drake, kaido, big mam, apoo, kizaru, kuzan, shichibukai, fujitora= Luffy

Hawkins and other rookies< luffy.

Spoiler

I agree with Azuma on this. The list needs moving many chars from "=Luffy" upward and downward.

 

[Tonix]

LAW, shanks, blackbeard, DD, Akainu, > Luffy.

Kidd, drake, kaido, big mam, apoo, kizaru, kuzan, shichibukai, fujitora= Luffy

Hawkins and other rookies< luffy.

People have been giving this list a lot of criticism, and I do agree that it's pretty flawed, but my biggest problem is that, unless I'm mistaken, you have forgotten Mihawk. Or is he just lumped in with the rest of the Shichibukai?

 

[Azuma]

He meant that Kizaru and Aokiji are still stronger than LUFFY. Also, Fujitora wasn't an Admiral at that time, since there was only three of them.

Oh I see. Well I don't think we have a clear indication of where Fujitora lies in relation to Kuzan/Borsalino/Sakazuki. There might have been a number of reasons as to why he didn't take up the position of admiral, just like with Garp. It could also be that that he might have been stronger than either of the three, but Sengoku preferred someone who could see in the position of Admiral. Perhaps Sengoku just didn't like Fujitora and had him stationed in the NW etc etc.

Mihawk is probably the strongest Shichibukai. I believe him to be above Dofla, but I am not sure if he would be stronger than the unnamed one, depending on who it is obviously.

 

[KuroKarasu]

Oh I see. Well I don't think we have a clear indication of where Fujitora lies in relation to Kuzan/Borsalino/Sakazuki. There might have been a number of reasons as to why he didn't take up the position of admiral, just like with Garp. It could also be that that he might have been stronger than either of the three, but Sengoku preferred someone who could see in the position of Admiral. Perhaps Sengoku just didn't like Fujitora and had him stationed in the NW etc etc.

Mihawk is probably the strongest Shichibukai. I believe him to be above Dofla, but I am not sure if he would be stronger than the unnamed one, depending on who it is obviously.

Yeah, I don't know how strong Fujitora is at all. I expect him to be above Luffy too but you never know. I think Mihawk and Dofla are similar in strenght - Doflamingo has the king's haki and he could easily escape aokijis ice (which was strong enough to beat Jozu).

 

[0Xellos]

Well, Dofla was quite freaked out and decided not to fight Aokiji. The best he could do is hold his ground, but most likely wouldn't win. It's no shame, though - Aokiji is out of many people's league.

 

[Ninomiya]

I don't think detail is required.
Dragon, Kong, Garp, Sengoku, Yonkou, Admirals, Dofla, Mihawk, Hancock, Benn Beckmann, Shiliew, Marco, Jozu, Vista, > Luffy.
I wouldn't necessarily put Law in a tier above Luffy.
Kid, Luffy and Law were expressed as roughly in the same bracket outside of the slave selling show. Regardless of all the countless fandom that put Luffy and Law higher because Kid isn't as cool as them.

I'm interested in people like Vice Admirals Momonga, Onigumo and Dalmatian who appeared as seriously strong during the war.

 

[Azuma]

I don't think detail is required.
Dragon, Kong, Garp, Sengoku, Yonkou, Admirals, Dofla, Mihawk, Hancock, Benn Beckmann, Shiliew, Marco, Jozu, Vista, > Luffy.
I wouldn't necessarily put Law in a tier above Luffy.
Kid, Luffy and Law were expressed as roughly in the same bracket outside of the slave selling show. Regardless of all the countless fandom that put Luffy and Law higher because Kid isn't as cool as them.

I'm interested in people like Vice Admirals Momonga, Onigumo and Dalmatian who appeared as seriously strong during the war.

Benn Beckman is very interesting. He seemed to only use a gun, yet Kizaru felt compelled to 'surrender'. I assume he's at the very least a Haki master and that he imbues his bullets with a gun. There has to be more to him than that, given that Yasopp is the marksman. He also seems to have exceptional speed given how he managed to sneak up to Kizaru.

Shiliew is strong, but I wouldn't necessarily put him above Luffy. As for Kong, my guess is that he's the most powerful marine.

 

[vagabond87]

So I would say that Luffy is on level with Rayleight right now. Before bashing me just read few lines.
Rayleigh was seen fighting Kizaru for some time yet he was visibly getting tired as he was panting while Kizaru wasnt. So in long run if that fight continued as it was I do think that Kizaru might be able to capture Rayleigh or that Rogers right hand man would be able to escape with big problems.
So I would say that Rayleigh is slightly weaker than Admiral right now- almost on par with them yet between Marco/Jozu and Admirals.

I would put in that thin space strength of Doflamingo- so I am stating that Doflamingo and Rayleigh as he is now are pretty much equall in combat power.

Sooooo... Luffy will most probably be the one to beat Doflamingo imo, by battle like the one with Rob Lucci- getting really close to death yet winning and seeing another day after going all out on enemy. As for backing up my words I have to add that Rayleigh who is monster in One Piece uniwerse said to Luffy after 2 year time skip "Go straight to the top!" and for me this one line speaks volumes about what Luffy is now capable or will be soon enough. Ace while bein a little older than Luffy during Whitebeard war was able to fight quite well for a moment with Aokiji and he was seen to be bad match against Akainu- most probably Aces haki wasnt as good as Luffys one is at the moment, maybe he concentrated on training his Devil Fruit power more than Haki during his time as Whitebeards commander.

So stronger than Luffy are Admirals- not by much but still, Luffys father- Dragon and all of Emperors as it is for now, of course Mihawk..
Some of Emperors top underlings and some of not seen yet pirates from New World are on par with Luffy.
This is how Luffys strength/ combat power looks in my mind as it is for now.
I would really like if I can post my thoughts about other two people from monster trio but its not good place for it..

 

[matzik1212]

I think we will have a big surprise when we'll witness Luffy post timeskip fully unleashed . What we saw till now is nothing IMO , there's no way we saw everything that's why it's still too soon to say for sure we know who is stronger than him or who's weaker ...

 

[Azuma]

So I would say that Luffy is on level with Rayleight right now. Before bashing me just read few lines.
Rayleigh was seen fighting Kizaru for some time yet he was visibly getting tired as he was panting while Kizaru wasnt. So in long run if that fight continued as it was I do think that Kizaru might be able to capture Rayleigh or that Rogers right hand man would be able to escape with big problems.
So I would say that Rayleigh is slightly weaker than Admiral right now- almost on par with them yet between Marco/Jozu and Admirals.

I would put in that thin space strength of Doflamingo- so I am stating that Doflamingo and Rayleigh as he is now are pretty much equall in combat power.

Sooooo... Luffy will most probably be the one to beat Doflamingo imo, by battle like the one with Rob Lucci- getting really close to death yet winning and seeing another day after going all out on enemy. As for backing up my words I have to add that Rayleigh who is monster in One Piece uniwerse said to Luffy after 2 year time skip "Go straight to the top!" and for me this one line speaks volumes about what Luffy is now capable or will be soon enough. Ace while bein a little older than Luffy during Whitebeard war was able to fight quite well for a moment with Aokiji and he was seen to be bad match against Akainu- most probably Aces haki wasnt as good as Luffys one is at the moment, maybe he concentrated on training his Devil Fruit power more than Haki during his time as Whitebeards commander.

So stronger than Luffy are Admirals- not by much but still, Luffys father- Dragon and all of Emperors as it is for now, of course Mihawk..
Some of Emperors top underlings and some of not seen yet pirates from New World are on par with Luffy.
This is how Luffys strength/ combat power looks in my mind as it is for now.
I would really like if I can post my thoughts about other two people from monster trio but its not good place for it..

I disagree. I don't think that Rayleigh was actually panting. It seemed more like he was messing around with Kizaru. The fight must have continued off-panel where Rayleigh must have gotten away. Seeing as Kizaru stated that he can't simply let Rayleigh leave suggests that Rayleigh perhaps came out victorious, or at the very least easily got away from someone as strong and fast as Kizaru, which is a testament to his skill.

There's also the fact that it's been stated that Rayleigh would've knocked out all 100 000 soldiers in the Fishman Island. His Haki is thus at least twice as strong as Luffy's. Given that he was able to train Luffy in all aspects of Haki also suggests that he's mastered all four (including Conquerer's Haki). In response to Rayleigh being spotted in Sabondy, Sengoku said something like "we can only handle one legend at the time". That, to me, suggests that Rayleigh is actually closer to a Yonkou than an Admiral. At the very least, he implied that he would defeat Kizaru without much trouble in his prime.

 

[danzouismadara]

You are so far off it's not even funny. If Akainu were stronger than Kaido, then the Yonkou wouldn't be feared.

In terms of skills, Kuzan should be above Akainu. It took Akainu several days to overcome Kuzan, and he had a clear advantage because Akainu could melt the ice with ease. Had it not been for that decisive factor, I think Kuzan would've beaten Akainu.

For strange reasons, you've put Kid and Apoo above Hawkins. Why? We haven't seen anything that would imply that one is stronger than the other, except for bounties.

You've put Law as stronger than Kaido, yet Law is going through so much trouble to weaken Kaido and his Crew as well as team up with Luffy to actually stand a chance against him. Even then, Law has stated that there is a high chance that they would fail.

Clearly Kaido > Law.

Then, you've also put Doflamingo as stronger than Kaido. Yet when Doflamingo thought about the prospect of having Kaido come after him, he practically shat his pants. That shows that compared to Kaido, Doflamingo is practically nothing.

You've put Big Mom = Kid resp. Apoo, yet in order to stand a chance, Kid, Apoo and Hawkins have formed an alliance. Big Mom is thus much stronger than either of them.

I could go on and on but there's no need. Your list is nothing but flawed. It's probably only based on what characters you like.

---------- Post added at 11:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 AM ----------

Based on what? Perhaps Fujitora is stronger and that's why they thought he would be sufficient to cover the NW by himself while the rest were off to fight WB.

akainu almost killed whitebeard. killed ace. he was very close to killing luffy ,ivankov, jinbe all in like 5 mins lol and he fought with all of the whitebeard commanders at the same time who werent even able to scratch him.