Discussion Why did Vegapunk Lie?

[Prxnce]

Vegapunk led Caesar and the World Government to believe his SMILE research at the Punk Hazard facility was a failure and thus it was eventually decommissioned and abandoned.

We know the trio (Judge, Vegapunk and Caesar) were defecto in the Lineage Factor research programs of which several products were conceived:

1. The Pacifista with Kizaru’s Yami Yami no mi abilities. (Vegapunk)
2. The Germa 66 Power Rangers with ‘alleged’ Lunarian abilities. (Judge)
3. The enlarged children with trace Giant properties. (Caesar)
4. The artificial Devil’s Fruits called SMILE (Caesar, Vegapunk)
5. The living Dragons on Pink Hazard (Vegapunk)

My initial guess was the stagnant success rate (1 in 10) however, this does not account for the Dragon related research (Kaido as a lab rat) which evidently from what we have seen was in-fact successful with Momonosuke and the Dragons on PH.

Lets have a sophisticated debate about this.

1. What are Vegapunks intentions?

2. Did he do this becuase he hypothesized he did not need SMILE to synthesize Devil Fruit abilities (Pacifista)?

3. Considering he now has a new weapon (ancient giants?) even stronger than the Pacifista which the WG and Marines are confident of — has he completed the Lineage Factor research?

4. If so what does this mean for the story, why is it relevant to the lore of One Piece?

 

[Fox666]

My initial guess was the stagnant success rate (1 in 10) however, this does not account for the Dragon related research (Kaido as a lab rat) which evidently from what we have seen was in-fact successful with Momonosuke and the Dragons on PH.

The fruit that Momonosuke ate was an Artificial Devil Fruit created by Vegapunk, not the SMILE produced by Ceasar.

The author implied in a recent SBS that the SMILE may produce similar effect than Devil Fruits, but are fake.

In other words, the SMILE can inject the linega factor of animals through other means, but are not Devil Fruits. Note that we have never seen a SMILE user be affected by the sea or seastone.

Artificial Devil Fruits are real Devil Fruits, but man-made. They appears to have the same effects and weaknesses.

Momonosuke's fruit seems somewhat unstable, so perhaps that's why it was deemed a failure.

 

[Prxnce]

The fruit that Momonosuke ate was an Artificial Devil Fruit created by Vegapunk, not the SMILE produced by Ceasar.

The author implied in a recent SBS that the SMILE may produce similar effect than Devil Fruits, but are fake.

In other words, the SMILE can inject the linega factor of animals through other means, but are not Devil Fruits. Note that we have never seen a SMILE user be affected by the sea or seastone.

Artificial Devil Fruits are real Devil Fruits, but man-made. They appears to have the same effects and weaknesses.

Momonosuke's fruit seems somewhat unstable, so perhaps that's why it was deemed a failure.

I’m aware but whether that is disambiguating or not has not been verified. The term artificial devils fruit has been used for both SMILE and the fruit Momonosuke ate, its has yet been clarified whether his also registers as a SMILE.

The SAD agent which was mandatory for the creation of artificial DF SMILE (the injection method you refer) was located in the same lab Vegapunk operated and developed Momonosuke’s fruit so it’s down to interpretation whether that fruit is also a SMILE or not but both are artificial both aren’t clarified to be categorically different.

The stability of the fruit being the reason it was deemed a failure suggests there was testing which isn’t the case as Momonosuke is the only subject (we know of), so it’s should be another reason?

 

[HereNThere]

Vegapunk is way too much of an enigma right now to really even discuss the tiniest of mysteries. We know more about his science than we do the man himself, so his intentions are nigh impossible to discern. But I guess we can give it a go.

1. What are Vegapunks intentions?

It's highly likely that he has knowledge of the Blank Century, so that might play a role. Also, his goals may align with the Revolutionaries seeing as how he respected Kuma's request to implant a mission to protect the 1000 Sunny after his personality was wiped.

2. Did he do this becuase he hypothesized he did not need SMILE to synthesize Devil Fruit abilities (Pacifista)?

Again, depends on where his allegiances lie. We'll have to see what the SSG entails, but given that he apparently succeeded in manufacturing a fruit yet the government isn't overflowing withd duplicate fruit users, I'd say he either assumed it failed or, more likely, he kept it a secret on how successful he actually was and only revealed he could only partially copy/paste abilities.

3. Considering he now has a new weapon (ancient giants?) even stronger than the Pacifista which the WG and Marines are confident of — has he completed the Lineage Factor research?

Likely. At least, he's found what he needed from it regarding DFs.

4. If so what does this mean for the story, why is it relevant to the lore of One Piece?

No one knows but Oda. Lineage Factors are clearly building up to something significant however.

 

[Fox666]

I’m aware but whether that is disambiguating or not has not been verified. The term artificial devils fruit has been used for both SMILE and the fruit Momonosuke ate, its has yet been clarified whether his also registers as a SMILE.

The SAD agent which was mandatory for the creation of artificial DF SMILE (the injection method you refer) was located in the same lab Vegapunk operated and developed Momonosuke’s fruit so it’s down to interpretation whether that fruit is also a SMILE or not but both are artificial both aren’t clarified to be categorically different.

The stability of the fruit being the reason it was deemed a failure suggests there was testing which isn’t the case as Momonosuke is the only subject (we know of), so it’s should be another reason?

Vegapunk's fruit is visibly different from the SMILE

 

[kkck]

By all appearances there are no differences between vegapunk's artificial devil fruit and actual devil fruits. Even momo's random transformations appear to be less of a thing now that he is an adult. I can offer nothing but crackpot theories regarding how vegapunk's artificial devil fruit is a failure.

1.- Perhaps using it has some sort of unintended side effect on the user.

2.- Maybe vegapunk is a bit of a perfectionist and there is some detail regarding the artificial fruit that doesn't perfectly measure up to real evil fruits. No evidence of anything specific but what I have in mind is something like whoever consumes the artificial fruit would be able to eat a second fruit without exploding or perhaps the fruit doesn't reincarnate in case the owner dies.

 

[catagon87]

Vegapunk led Caesar and the World Government to believe his SMILE research at the Punk Hazard facility was a failure and thus it was eventually decommissioned and abandoned.

We know the trio (Judge, Vegapunk and Caesar) were defecto in the Lineage Factor research programs of which several products were conceived:

1. The Pacifista with Kizaru’s Yami Yami no mi abilities. (Vegapunk)
2. The Germa 66 Power Rangers with ‘alleged’ Lunarian abilities. (Judge)
3. The enlarged children with trace Giant properties. (Caesar)
4. The artificial Devil’s Fruits called SMILE (Caesar, Vegapunk)
5. The living Dragons on Pink Hazard (Vegapunk)

My initial guess was the stagnant success rate (1 in 10) however, this does not account for the Dragon related research (Kaido as a lab rat) which evidently from what we have seen was in-fact successful with Momonosuke and the Dragons on PH.

Lets have a sophisticated debate about this.

1. What are Vegapunks intentions?

2. Did he do this becuase he hypothesized he did not need SMILE to synthesize Devil Fruit abilities (Pacifista)?

3. Considering he now has a new weapon (ancient giants?) even stronger than the Pacifista which the WG and Marines are confident of — has he completed the Lineage Factor research?

4. If so what does this mean for the story, why is it relevant to the lore of One Piece?

I think for a character we've never seen Vegapunk has a lot of depth.

What we know:

• Helped the Island he hails from with his technology, revered there.
• Did not approve of Caesar's crazy weapon development / habits. This means he probably didn't approve of Queen much either, and probably saw them as capable lab assistants.
• Probably the most knowledgeable in the world about Devil Fruits. IIRC he is the one who was able to imbue objects with abilities. He also apparently has done research on seastone.
• He is a man of his word; He allowed Kuma to defend the Thousand Sunny for two fucking years.
• Orochi demanded him instead of "more ships / weapons"

The more vague stuff is MAD - it's implied this wasn't a government sanctioned group, but even that is weird. Judge had autonomy from the WG at the time, and they were experimenting on Kaido at some point. Depending on when this happened it makes me wonder if Kaido was a voluntary subject, or just really weak back in those days and growing rapidly.

Anyways, to your questions. I think Vegapunk's intentions are probably not that interesting / to learn as much about the world as possible.

 

[Buulord]

By all appearances there are no differences between vegapunk's artificial devil fruit and actual devil fruits. Even momo's random transformations appear to be less of a thing now that he is an adult. I can offer nothing but crackpot theories regarding how vegapunk's artificial devil fruit is a failure.

1.- Perhaps using it has some sort of unintended side effect on the user.

2.- Maybe vegapunk is a bit of a perfectionist and there is some detail regarding the artificial fruit that doesn't perfectly measure up to real evil fruits. No evidence of anything specific but what I have in mind is something like whoever consumes the artificial fruit would be able to eat a second fruit without exploding or perhaps the fruit doesn't reincarnate in case the owner dies.

I’m more of a fan of the second one than anything else. Think you’ve got idea with the fruit not reincarnating which could be considered a major flaw. You’d have to actually produce a new fruit each time someone died and that could cost some undefined amount of resources.

 

[Prxnce]

It's highly likely that he has knowledge of the Blank Century, so that might play a role. Also, his goals may align with the Revolutionaries seeing as how he respected Kuma's request to implant a mission to protect the 1000 Sunny after his personality was wiped.

Its been said his advancements are 500 years ahead of modern techological breakthrough. I don't recall who said it (it may have been a Vivre Card) but assuming we take it literally, he may legitimately have a 500 year head start.

Again, depends on where his allegiances lie. We'll have to see what the SSG entails, but given that he apparently succeeded in manufacturing a fruit yet the government isn't overflowing withd duplicate fruit users, I'd say he either assumed it failed or, more likely, he kept it a secret on how successful he actually was and only revealed he could only partially copy/paste abilities.

Agreed, which is why it's interesting to discuss why he may have misled them about the artificial fruit. The little we know about Vegapunk suggests he is not a puppet to the WG at the same time he is not altruistic either.

Vegapunk's fruit is visibly different from the SMILE

I agree they are clearly different not just in appearance but effectiveness. What I was saying is it can still be defined a SMILE as SMILE are merely artificial devil fruits. Whether Caesar's or Vegapunk's, they are frameworks of the same thing.

By all appearances there are no differences between vegapunk's artificial devil fruit and actual devil fruits. Even momo's random transformations appear to be less of a thing now that he is an adult. I can offer nothing but crackpot theories regarding how vegapunk's artificial devil fruit is a failure.

1.- Perhaps using it has some sort of unintended side effect on the user.

2.- Maybe vegapunk is a bit of a perfectionist and there is some detail regarding the artificial fruit that doesn't perfectly measure up to real evil fruits. No evidence of anything specific but what I have in mind is something like whoever consumes the artificial fruit would be able to eat a second fruit without exploding or perhaps the fruit doesn't reincarnate in case the owner dies.

Yeah! Even before he became an adult he said his transformations had become more stable. Nonetheless both SMILE fruits and Vegapunk's fruit had 'issues'. The problem with designating Momonosuke's fruit a failure is it was never tested, assuming any test involves having it eaten.

I think for a character we've never seen Vegapunk has a lot of depth.

What we know:

• Helped the Island he hails from with his technology, revered there.
• Did not approve of Caesar's crazy weapon development / habits. This means he probably didn't approve of Queen much either, and probably saw them as capable lab assistants.
• Probably the most knowledgeable in the world about Devil Fruits. IIRC he is the one who was able to imbue objects with abilities. He also apparently has done research on seastone.
• He is a man of his word; He allowed Kuma to defend the Thousand Sunny for two fucking years.
• Orochi demanded him instead of "more ships / weapons"

The more vague stuff is MAD - it's implied this wasn't a government sanctioned group, but even that is weird. Judge had autonomy from the WG at the time, and they were experimenting on Kaido at some point. Depending on when this happened it makes me wonder if Kaido was a voluntary subject, or just really weak back in those days and growing rapidly.

Anyways, to your questions. I think Vegapunk's intentions are probably not that interesting / to learn as much about the world as possible.

We have enough on Vegapunk to form a profile, things said about him and what he's done so far in the story. It seems to me he is using the WG to push his research as his ideology judging from his actions certainly doesn't align with theirs yet he is not the Revolutionaries or some other force.

 

[Black neko]

The one which made by vegapunk just "artificial df". Vegapunk use the real "df" (kaido) to make it. (Kaido's df >> artificial df by vegapunk)
BUT the which one made by caesar is not from "real df" . It is from artificial df by vegapunk. (Artificial df by vegapunk >> Smile)
We learn this, from Law. He said about it after ph's arc, that caesar just use vegapunk's research.
I think that why "smile" is not succes as "vp's handmade".
If you ask what is the real motive of vp, i think he just want to know. He is researcher, that not strange. BUT if you ask why he lied, i think bc he know that will make big problem in future if df can be handmade. Wg will kidnap all df user then ordered him to make the artificial, so people who use df is unlimited, that will cause big problem.
But, we still don't know if he really lied or not.it could be that the reason he said it failed, was because it was not able to completely copy the dragon kaido or there were bad side effects that even until now had not been discovered.
Just wait and see, when we meet with vp.

 

[Fox666]

By all appearances there are no differences between vegapunk's artificial devil fruit and actual devil fruits. Even momo's random transformations appear to be less of a thing now that he is an adult. I can offer nothing but crackpot theories regarding how vegapunk's artificial devil fruit is a failure.

1.- Perhaps using it has some sort of unintended side effect on the user.

2.- Maybe vegapunk is a bit of a perfectionist and there is some detail regarding the artificial fruit that doesn't perfectly measure up to real evil fruits. No evidence of anything specific but what I have in mind is something like whoever consumes the artificial fruit would be able to eat a second fruit without exploding or perhaps the fruit doesn't reincarnate in case the owner dies.

The reason it's deemed a failure may have nothing to do with the fruit itself. Perhaps it's not possible to mass produce a fruit like that.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Vegapunk has always had an agenda.

He actually allowed Kuma to fight against the WG as a Pacifista... that's not exactly what someone who aligns fully with the WG should be doing. He's been pretty dodgy and questionable.

In fact, he's viewed to be a good moral caring person. Helped the kids at Punk Hazard. He actually was the one trying to save people in Punk Hazard and Caesar was always trying to smear his image and discredit his achievements.

Both Smoker and Fujitora trust him.

I'd been saying from the start the fruit was pretty much perfect, there's no side effects I can see.

Spoiler

So, it looks like he's simply opposed to the idea of the WG becoming too strong.

It then begs the question.. why did he develop something that abolishes the Shichibukai? I'm guessing he believes it's better for the WG to have more power than Pirates being sanctioned by the WG to commit a lot of atrocities, and again, I think he sees eye to eye with people like Fujitora, Smoker, Garp and Aokiji who genuinely want to bring about justice in a moral way.

The man spent decades trying to improve the conditions of his own country to make their lives better and easier. He just lies to the WG if he feels it's necessary given their record of