Question Why do people assume Netero can beat the Royals?

[Tombadgerlock]

Pufu has another ability that is rarely mentioned. He can reset what you learn.

Proof of that ability existing, and not him just teaching soemthing?

Both Leol and Cheetu took advantage of this. In HXH, it's pretty clear that you have a fixed capacity to learn abilities.

Not at all. IT just takes time to learn ability, and it also invest belief in it. You can learn as many abilities as you want. But the belief that 'this is YOUR SPECIAL ABILITY' greatly increases its effectiveness.

If the Spiders got completely wiped out, then that means Kurapika permanently wasted some of his potential specializing in defeating them, because he cannot trade his Chain Jail for something else. Cheetu said his hide & seek ability cannot be reused if he's caught, but it's no problem because he'll just get a new ability from Pufu. This is a huge advantage. Previously in HXH if you learned an ability that turns out to suck or incompatible, you're stuck with it counting against your potential for your life (see Kastro in Celestial Tower). In fact, Cheetu is perhaps the best example of how to waste all your talent learning useless stuff (note that Pufu can reset abilities but he can't cure stupidity).

That is your interpetation, nothing more.

Palm also benefitted from this. We are never shown how Pufu does this, but after Palm's rebirth she said she was using her ability wrong in the past, and she went from someone Killua can defeat in his sleep, to someone he has to fight seriously. Morel also noted that if they didn't attack so early, they wouldn't have a chance because presumably Pufu would've eventually be able to turn even idiots like Cheetu into an aura powerhouse.

Yes, and this has nothing to do with resetting. Palm kept her old ability. It's just that she also learnt to stop holding back.

And that hexagon is quite accurate, I believe. It's for other characters as well? What is says about Killua? I want to know if He has chances out 1 million to defeat Yupi :

Mind/Skill/Stamina/Aura/Ingenuity/Knowledge Total
５　 ５　 ５　 ５　 ５　 ５　 ３０　　Netero
４　 ５　 ５　 ５　 ５　 ４　 ２８　　Pitou
３　 ５　 ５　 ５　 ５　 ５　 ２８　　Pouf
５　 ５　 ５　 ５　 ３　 ４　 ２７　　Youpi
５　 ４　 ５　 ４　 ４　 ４　 ２６　　Biscuit
５　 ４　 ４　 ４　 ４　 ４　 ２５　　 Kuroro
３　 ４　 ４　 ４　 ５　 ４　 ２４　　Hisoka
４　 ４　 ４　 ４　 ４　 ４　 ２４　　Razor
４　 ４　 ４　 ４　 ３　 ４　 ２３　　Morel
４　 ４　 ４　 ４　 ３　 ４ 　２３　　Kite
３　 ４　 ４　 ４　 ４　 ４ 　２３　　Genthru
４　 ３　 ４　 ４　 ５　 ３　 ２３　　Gon
４　 ４　 ４　 ４　 ３　 ４　 ２３　　Killua
４　 ４　 ４　 ４　 ２　 ４　 ２２　　Wing
３ 　４　 ４　 ４　 ３　 ４ 　２２　　Shoot
４　 ４　 ４　 ４　 ３　 ３　 ２２　　Knuckle
２　 ４　 ４　 ４　 ３　 ４　 ２１　　Knov
３　 ３　 ３　 ４　 ５　 ３　 ２１　　Palm
３　 ３　 ３　 ４　 ３　 ４　 ２０　　Welfin
３　 ３　 ３　 ３　 ３　 ４　 １９　　Tsezguerra
３　 ３　 ３　 ４　 ２　 ４　 １９　　Kurapika
４　 ３　 ３　 ３　 ３　 ３　 １９　　Leol
３　 ３　 ３　 ４　 ２　 ３　 １８　　Zazan
４　 ２　 ２　 ３　 ３　 ４　 １８　　Meleoron
２　 ３　 ３　 ４　 ３　 ２　 １７　　Cheetu
３　 ３　 ３ 　３　 ２　 ３　 １７　　Koltopi
４　 ２　 ３　 ２　 ３　 ３　 １７　　Ikalgo
２　 ３　 ３　 ３　 ２　 １　 １４　　Rammot
３　 ２　 ２　 １　 １　 ３　 １２　　Leorio
２ 　２　 ３　 ０　 ２　 ３　 １２　　Ant Queen
４　 １　 １　 ０　 ４　 ２　 １２　　Komugi
３　 １　 １　 １　 １　 ３　 １０　　Zepairu
２　 １　 １　 １　 １　 １　 　７　　Zushi



Before:

Mind/Skill/Stamina/Aura/Ingenuity/Knowledge Total
２　 ２　 ２　 ０　 ３　 １　 １０　　Gon（Hunter Exam）
３　 ２　 ３　 １　 ３　 ２　 １４　　Gon（Celestial Tower）
３　 ３　 ３　 ２　 ３　 ２　 １６　　Gon（York Shin）
３　 ３　 ３　 ３　 ３　 ２　 １７　　Gon（Greed Island）
３　 ３　 ４　 ３　 ３　 ２　 １８　　Gon（Chimera Ant I）
４　 ３　 ４　 ４　 ４　 ３　 ２２　　Gon（Chimera Ant II）
４　 ３　 ４　 ４　 ５　 ３　 ２３　　Gon（Chimera Ant III）
１　 ３　 ２　 ０　 ２　 ２　 １０　　Killua（Hunter Exam）
２　 ３　 ３　 １　 ２　 ２　 １３　　Killua（Celestial Tower）
２　 ３　 ３　 ２　 ２　 ２　 １４　　Killua（York Shin）
２　 ３　 ３　 ３　 ２　 ３　 １６　　Killua（Greed Island）
３　 ４　 ４　 ３　 ３　 ３　 ２０　　Killua（Chimera Ant I）
４　 ４　 ４　 ４　 ３　 ３　 ２２　　Killua（Chimera Ant II）
４　 ４　 ４　 ４　 ３　 ４　 ２３　　Killua（Chimera Ant III）
３　 ２　 ２　 ０　 ２　 ３　 １２　　Kurapica（Hunter Exam）
３　 ３　 ３　 ４　 ２　 ４　 １９　　Kurapica（York Shin）
２　 １　 ２　 ０　 ２　 ３ 　１０　　Leorio（Hunter Exam）
３　 ２　 ２　 １　 １　 ３ 　１２　　Leorio（York Shin）
３　 ４　 ４　 ３　 ５　 ４　 ２３　　Hisoka（Hunter Exam）
３　 ４　 ４　 ４　 ５　 ４　 ２４　　Hisoka（York Shin）
３　 ４　 ４　 ３　 ２　 ４　 ２０　　Kaito（Hunter Exam）
４　 ４　 ４　 ４　 ３　 ４ 　２３　　Kaito（Chimera Ant I）
５　 ５　 ５　 ５　 ４　 ５　 ２９　　Netero（Chimera Ant I）
５　 ５　 ５　 ５　 ５　 ５　 ３０　　Netero （Chimera Ant III）
３　 ４　 ４　 ４　 ３　 ４ 　２２　　Novu（Chimera Ant I）
２　 ４　 ４　 ４　 ３　 ４ 　２１　　Novu（Chimera Ant II）
３　 ４　 ４　 ４　 ３　 ３ 　２１　　Knuckle（Chimera Ant I）
４　 ４　 ４　 ４　 ３　 ３　 ２２　　Knuckle（Chimera Ant II）
１　 ４　 ４　 ４　 ３　 ４ 　２０　　Shoot（Chimera Ant I）
３ 　４　 ４　 ４　 ３　 ４ 　２２　　Shoot（Chimera Ant II）
１　 ２　 １　 ３　 ３　 ３　 １３　　Palm（Chimera Ant I）
３　 ３　 ３　 ４　 ５　 ３　 ２１　　Palm（Chimera Ant III）
４　 ５　 ５　 ５　 ４　 ３　 ２６　　Yupi（Chimera Ant II）
５　 ５　 ５　 ５　 ３　 ４　 ２７　　Yupi（Chimera Ant III）
３　 ３　 ３　 ３　 ３　 ３ 　１８　　Leol（Chimera Ant I）
４　 ３　 ３　 ３　 ３　 ３ 　１９　　Leol（Chimera Ant II）
２　 ３　 ３　 ３　 ３　 １ 　１５　　Zitoh（Chimera Ant I）
２　 ３　 ３　 ４　 ３　 ２ 　１７　　Zitoh（Chimera Ant II）
３　 １　 １　 ３　 ３　 ３ 　１４　　Meleoron（Chimera Ant I）
４ 　２ 　１ 　３ 　３ 　３ 　１６　　Meleoron（Chimera Ant II）
４　 ２　 ２　 ３　 ３　 ４　 １８　　Meleoron（Chimera Ant III）
４　 ２　 ２　 ３　 ２　 ３　 １６　　Ikarugo（Chimera Ant II）
４　 ２　 ３　 ２　 ３　 ３　 １７　　Ikarugo（Chimera Ant III）

 

[Phantron]

Proof of that ability existing, and not him just teaching soemthing?

So basically you're saying Pufu holds an equivalent of aura 101 class to people who are known to be complete morons, and they end up with result that far surpasses the best human learning that has ever been observed in HXH. Not even Gon or Killua learned a brand new ability in matter of days. I mean sure, the Ants do start out with incredible physical gifts, but you're also talking about Cheetu here as one of the student.

Cheetu picked an ability that he can never use again if he failed certain criteria, and you think you're supposed to just get around that problem by learning something new? Is Cheetu some kind of super genius who stumbled on a cool trick nobody in the world of HXH has thought of before? Just make all your moves 'can never use again if...' and if it fails, just learn something else to replace it? Everything in HXH suggests that if you learn the wrong thing you're stuck with it.

Refer to this conversation Hisoka had with Kastro way back:

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/hunter_hunter/v06/c054/19.html

If it was possible to just 'forget' what you already learned, it'd be impossible to ran out of memory, so to speak. Cheetu essentially learned 3 useless abilities, and then learned a new ability within a week. Unless he is supposed to be a person with a memory that is way above any character we've seen (most characters only have 1-2 refined abilities), he should be, as Hisoka would say, out of memory.

At any rate if you really believe Pufu's teaching ability is so great that it easily surpasses any kind of learning exhibited so far (at least on the human side) in HXH, the same conclusion still holds: it'd be impossible for the Royals to not have optimized their aura ability by now if they were at all interested in being good at fighting 1 on 1.

 

[Tombadgerlock]

So basically you're saying Pufu holds an equivalent of aura 101 class to people who are known to be complete morons, and they end up with result that far surpasses the best human learning that has ever been observed in HXH. Not even Gon or Killua learned a brand new ability in matter of days. I mean sure, the Ants do start out with incredible physical gifts, but you're also talking about Cheetu here as one of the student.

That was what Morau assume he could do.

Edit: http://www.tenmanga.com/chapter/HunterXHunter248/153463-8.html

If it was possible to just 'forget' what you already learned, it'd be impossible to ran out of memory, so to speak. Cheetu essentially learned 3 useless abilities, and then learned a new ability within a week. Unless he is supposed to be a person with a memory that is way above any character we've seen (most characters only have 1-2 refined abilities), he should be, as Hisoka would say, out of memory.

Zitoh's main ability has always been Speed, then he learned a second ability which got unusable, then he learned a third ability. He always kept his speed though.

The 'out of memory' thing is about doing something you aren't suited for. It goes against the very principle of Pufu's technique- Pufu seems to not 'teach' a technique as such, but find what the person is *currently* most suited for.

So, basically, the 'Out of memory' thing still wroks, as the person couldn't 'become' suited for techniques his mind aren't ready for.

At any rate if you really believe Pufu's teaching ability is so great that it easily surpasses any kind of learning exhibited so far (at least on the human side) in HXH, the same conclusion still holds: it'd be impossible for the Royals to not have optimized their aura ability by now if they were at all interested in being good at fighting 1 on 1.

It was always pretty explicit the only Royal Guard who ever tried to learn any fighting technique was Pitoh.

EDIT: Also, keep in mind Zitoh's nen was still considered in his development's stage after he got his first ability from pufu. It's highly possible that Pufu isn't able to make them learn an abiltiy beyond the scope of their current maturity, and that someone needs deep maturity in order to be able to use more than one ability well.

 

[Airget]

I'm sorry if this is a tad off topic but in terms of Netero's defeat, does anyone else feel like they wanted Netero to be eliminated by the ants. I was reading back on the arc and the way they talk about the political side of the hunter's society as well as the way the chairman aka Netero would take the fall for the incompetence of others it almost feels as if they wanted him out of the picture for some reason.

If you consider his good nature I think it isn't to unreasonable to think that since he's live to 110 and even at that age had such an amazing fighting ability one would think he could live for another hundred years. It just feels like with the way some have talked about Netero it was like they feared his potential and wanted him out of the picture to take control of his position. While of course it is just speculation it's just something that's bothered me as I read the chapter cause if you do consider the situation why would they want their strongest fighter using the rose if the rose is a weapon with the same amount of power regardless of who uses it, why not send ina decoy to set it off rather then sacrificing one of the strongest hunters alive.

In terms of his strength against the other royal guards, with his fighting style I"m sure he could've swept the floor with them. When he first read Pitou's aura it was based on his current conditioning meanwhile during the attack I would say he may have tripled or quadrupled his power through the meditation and training he went through before the invasion.

Against the King though it does make one wonder how he would've made out had the King not gained a side of humanity and was a brute killer. I would imagine Netero would've actually gone down quicker and more ruthless but then it would have justified the use of the Rose since in that scenario he had already prepared to die. Now that I think about it, the main fact that Netero had the Rose in him meant he already knew he was going to lose and if I recall isn't that the worst thing you can do in a fight when you consider the fact that you'll lose. It's as if he knew he had no hope of winning and was only fighting to see how well he could do even though the whole fight was pointless.

I ponder if perhaps Netero would've fought harder if the Rose wasn't in him because the fact he had it in him meant he was always under the assumption that he had a backup plan and he didn't have to win. He didn't even attempt to finish the fight he killed himself when the king came close enough to set off the bomb which would mean he never even planned on winning just to get the King close enough to fire it off.

I guess in Netero's mind he wanted to have at least one more fight before calling it quits since he could have just grappled the King and set off the bomb at point blank range but instead opted to see how he could do against him. Even though we'll most likely hear about Gon's condition next and his recovery attempts I do ponder how the new chairman will effect the Hunter's organization since the carefree Netero is now out of the picture, it does leave room for a more ruthless/greedy person to take the position and control it as they seem fit.

 

[kkck]

Zito's speed was never his ability. Zito's speed was always a natural ability he had due to being based on a cheetah. The speed was at no point nen related.

 

[Phantron]

There's clearly an opposing faction within the Hunter's Association that wants Netero out. It'd seem like this faction didn't take the Ants as seriously and rather viewed it as an opportunity to make Netero look bad. I doubt they were trying to kill him, since Netero is still clearly the strongest Hunter around and he is clearly aware of their existence. I doubt this faction knew about the Rose, since if they're looking for a scandal to bring Netero down, the fact that he possessed a Rose would be more than enough to ruin his reputation forever.

HXH human beings do not seem to live significantly longer compared to real life counterparts. Netero is always described as ridiculously old (110+ at least), and if this was a common occurence people wouldn't make a big deal out of it. He clearly declined in his ability as he grew old, so he is not immune to the effect of aging. Maybe he can live another 20 years but I sure don't see another 100 years, though it's pretty clear the rival faction in Hunter's Association isn't going to just wait until Netero dies from old age either.

Netero's 'Zero' attack pretty much drained his life force. What could he possibly do that's more powerful than that? It sure looks like using that attack pretty much ensures his death, so how could he possibly have a better plan and not use it over an attack pretty much kills him regardless of outcome. Even if you don't think Netero was going to die after using the Zero, it's clear he is not in any shape to continue fighting after it, so that must be his most powerful attack.

 

[Tombadgerlock]

Zito's speed was never his ability. Zito's speed was always a natural ability he had due to being based on a cheetah. The speed was at no point nen related.

Him being based on Cheetah helped him decide for 'speed', but Zitoh definitely thought of his 'Speed' as an ability when he was thinking of nen.

 

[kkck]

^Yet he had that speed long before he ever learned nen. His speed was innate, his abilities were his tag thing, his crosbow and the ability we never got to see due to killlua's dad.

 

[Tombadgerlock]

^Yet he had that speed long before he ever learned nen. His speed was innate, his abilities were his tag thing, his crosbow and the ability we never got to see due to killlua's dad.

We never saw his speed before he learnt nen.

 

[kkck]

Of course we did.
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/hunter_hunter/v21/c218/5.html
murao stated he was using only natural abilities
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/hunter_hunter/v21/c221/14.html
here we see him wondering what the hell nen is, after using his speed
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/hunter_hunter/v21/c221/15.html
Later on we see zitou talking to leol about getting him an actual nen ability but I don't remember when that happened and the chapter titles being just numbers does not help at all.

 

[Tombadgerlock]

Yeah, no.

'Natural abilities' was him using his nen, it's just was a completely unpolished one. At that time, all the Ants had their nen baptism and were taught the basics by pitou/colt.

The whole 'is this what nen is' is like Pitou realizing nen was much deeper than he previously assumed. 'Strength/speed is not all'.

 

[kkck]

Even if the guy knew nen by then it does not make speed hit hatsu. That was never said in the manga at all, if anything it makes sense he would have such speed due to his specie. Learning the basics of nen won't turn speed into a hatsu....