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Why Hunter Association or another authority didn't pursue Genei Ryodan for the Kurta Clan massacre?
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Question Why Hunter Association or another authority didn't pursue Genei Ryodan
- Thread starter j.d.
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You mean why the didn't...? Anyway, we don't know if they were or are being pursued by the Association
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They are wanted and not everyone can deal with them. Those willing to hunt them will be rewarded if they succeed.
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It is actually very interesting to fill the blinds about the hunter organization because we actually do not know much about it.
However, there are some things we can deduce.
The first thing is that it depends a lot on who leads it. The exam alone decides who becomes hunter, and the exam is largely (at least its general direction) decided by the chairman.
While netero wanted deadly challenges and only the strongest to succeed (whether strongest will or best ability), Cheadle choose those she thought the organization needed for the DC with very many people getting in.
Even Pariston as vicechairman could spin the organization in a way that allowed temp hunters to get into the organization who basically were his personal force.
Under Netero, the organization was structured in a way that enabled everyone's personal freedom.
Netero didn't even take any precautions for the case that he fails to kill Meruem, even tho the oranization was hired by very influential persons.
He went after that with his three buddies and their pupils and didnt even alert any other strong hunters to fullfill the job if anything goes wrong.
Cheadle would never have acted like that, she woulda seen a B level threat and immadietly gone there with a strikeforce who woulda eradicated meruem before his birth.
BUt Netero didnt roll that way, which is, in my opinion, also why the organization didn*t really go after influential criminals.
Netero wanted to enable blacklist hunter to do these things if they WANT TO, but, unlike cheadle, netero would never force anyone who has no interest in it to help out in a mission, even when that would be the best way to operate.
THe only time netero ever wanted to restrict someone's personal freedom was with his son beyond, and only due to the very big chance that Beyond's actions would eradicate humanity.
Anyways: The reason the Spider can easily operate is that the hunters are, under netero at least, no police force and there are not strong enough groups of blacklist hunters who go after them.
The spiders are, at least seemingly, small fry. They killed some rich people at the yorkshin auction, but then again, they disappeared after that.
Those rich people are big enough to hire people like the zoldyeks, but they are not influential enough to deploy forces like state militarys or hire a guy like netero due to political influence.
And after hiring the Zoldyeks, they went back on their plans too because they didnt want to mess with meteor city, which might be an even bigger threat than the spider itself.
There are definitely blacklist hunters who are capable enough to create a team that kills the spiders, the most obvious one would be Mizaistom.
BUt i am sure people like mizai don't go after some thieves who kill some unremarkable victims here and there, people like mizai go after people like jairo.
Jairo had a paramilitary force that was able to secure a large landpatch and distribute and create devastating drugs from there, that is, no matter whether he was an individual weaker than any spider, a much higher level than what the spider does, regarding criminal energy.
Long story short: The spider are too unremarkable for bigshots too bother and too strong for anyone else to stop them.
However, there are some things we can deduce.
The first thing is that it depends a lot on who leads it. The exam alone decides who becomes hunter, and the exam is largely (at least its general direction) decided by the chairman.
While netero wanted deadly challenges and only the strongest to succeed (whether strongest will or best ability), Cheadle choose those she thought the organization needed for the DC with very many people getting in.
Even Pariston as vicechairman could spin the organization in a way that allowed temp hunters to get into the organization who basically were his personal force.
Under Netero, the organization was structured in a way that enabled everyone's personal freedom.
Netero didn't even take any precautions for the case that he fails to kill Meruem, even tho the oranization was hired by very influential persons.
He went after that with his three buddies and their pupils and didnt even alert any other strong hunters to fullfill the job if anything goes wrong.
Cheadle would never have acted like that, she woulda seen a B level threat and immadietly gone there with a strikeforce who woulda eradicated meruem before his birth.
BUt Netero didnt roll that way, which is, in my opinion, also why the organization didn*t really go after influential criminals.
Netero wanted to enable blacklist hunter to do these things if they WANT TO, but, unlike cheadle, netero would never force anyone who has no interest in it to help out in a mission, even when that would be the best way to operate.
THe only time netero ever wanted to restrict someone's personal freedom was with his son beyond, and only due to the very big chance that Beyond's actions would eradicate humanity.
Anyways: The reason the Spider can easily operate is that the hunters are, under netero at least, no police force and there are not strong enough groups of blacklist hunters who go after them.
The spiders are, at least seemingly, small fry. They killed some rich people at the yorkshin auction, but then again, they disappeared after that.
Those rich people are big enough to hire people like the zoldyeks, but they are not influential enough to deploy forces like state militarys or hire a guy like netero due to political influence.
And after hiring the Zoldyeks, they went back on their plans too because they didnt want to mess with meteor city, which might be an even bigger threat than the spider itself.
There are definitely blacklist hunters who are capable enough to create a team that kills the spiders, the most obvious one would be Mizaistom.
BUt i am sure people like mizai don't go after some thieves who kill some unremarkable victims here and there, people like mizai go after people like jairo.
Jairo had a paramilitary force that was able to secure a large landpatch and distribute and create devastating drugs from there, that is, no matter whether he was an individual weaker than any spider, a much higher level than what the spider does, regarding criminal energy.
Long story short: The spider are too unremarkable for bigshots too bother and too strong for anyone else to stop them.
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After Kurapika kidnapped Chrollo, Nobunaga told the others to wait for reinforcements instead of chasing after Kurapika because the chain assassin has a 'Pro Hunter level' ally. At that point, they have 5 people (Nobunaga, Machi, Pakunoda, Shizuku, and Kortopi). They need someone to watch the hostages, and Machi and Pakunoda was somewhat injured. Still, they obviously have a numerical advantage, and nobody disputed his decision. Even Phinx, who sure is pretty gung-ho about fighting, accepted that as an explanation when he arrived. So based on this, you can infer that Spiders view a Pro Hunter as someone who can potentially fight more than one of them at once, otherwise this precaution to wait for 3 more Spiders to arrive makes no sense when they have something like a 4 on 2 advantage (subtract one person worth of power for various injuries + watching hostage). I think it's a huge mistake that the later portrayal of Hunter's Association does not possibly live up to this mystique.
Another way to look at it is this. Chrollo needed to pay Ilumi off to survive against Zeno and Silva, and how much does it cost to hire those guys? Well, Miluki offered to kill 15 guys for Silva in exchange for a loan in the 10 billion range (trying to bid for a copy of GI) if I recall. Of course, a copy of GI is considered easily within the wealth of what a Pro Hunter can buy. So even if a Pro Hunter is totally worthless at combat, we know the average wealth of a Pro Hunter is more than enough to hire the best assassins out there, which is definitely enough to kill Spiders.
Now, if Hunters are meant to be this powerful, why are Spiders around? Because it's stated that Hunters tend to act alone, and Spiders tend to work in groups. Even if a guy can easily win 1on3 Spiders, there's really no way for him to know that he won't be finding more than 3 of them at once. Indeed, Hisoka's motivation for recruiting Kurapika was that Chrollo typically has at least 2 other members by him. Also, Hunters do not necessarily have moves optimized for combat. This is another point that was communicated very poorly, but HXH is not a world where the strongest fighter rules everything with his fist. The Zodiac is obviously bothered that Pariston is hoarding a ton of money, so just his ability to control money is considered a far greater threat to the Zodiac than Spiders. Political savvy also matters a lot, as we consistently see figures of authority trump Hunters and even the Association itself with their political power. So to be a successful Hunter, being the best at fighting isn't necessarily the way to go. It is easy to imagine plenty of Hunters focused their talent toward non combat talents and therefore do not want to fight against Spiders that clearly have all their talents focused on fighting. Again, I think there's a problem with the overemphasis on fighting makes it look like any random guy can just charge in to the presidential palace and take over the country. But clearly, there's no way that can possibly work or the world of HXH would already be controlled by the best fighters. It's not even possible to try to manipulate a head of state in all likelihood, again because if that was possible you'd already see the world of HXH controlled by Manipulation users. As powerful as aura is, it's implied that people in position of power know how to deal with it.
Remember that Hunters, as an organization, only deals with threats on the national level. It is legal for Hunters to kill innocent bystanders as long as it's not 'heinous', so the fact that Spiders murdered a bunch of mafia or some random rich guy isn't enough for them to care on the organizational level. Even Silva complains that killing a Spider isn't worth the money involved, so it's a lot of hard work for not much gain. Only someone who is truly selfless and dedicated to fighting evil would go after Spiders, but since the world of HXH is also pretty corrupt in general, such a guy would be going after say, Jairo, as pointed out in the above post, than the Spiders, because a guy secretly selling potent drugs to millions does far more harm to society than a bunch of murderers that occasionally go on a killing spree and then back to hiding.
Another way to look at it is this. Chrollo needed to pay Ilumi off to survive against Zeno and Silva, and how much does it cost to hire those guys? Well, Miluki offered to kill 15 guys for Silva in exchange for a loan in the 10 billion range (trying to bid for a copy of GI) if I recall. Of course, a copy of GI is considered easily within the wealth of what a Pro Hunter can buy. So even if a Pro Hunter is totally worthless at combat, we know the average wealth of a Pro Hunter is more than enough to hire the best assassins out there, which is definitely enough to kill Spiders.
Now, if Hunters are meant to be this powerful, why are Spiders around? Because it's stated that Hunters tend to act alone, and Spiders tend to work in groups. Even if a guy can easily win 1on3 Spiders, there's really no way for him to know that he won't be finding more than 3 of them at once. Indeed, Hisoka's motivation for recruiting Kurapika was that Chrollo typically has at least 2 other members by him. Also, Hunters do not necessarily have moves optimized for combat. This is another point that was communicated very poorly, but HXH is not a world where the strongest fighter rules everything with his fist. The Zodiac is obviously bothered that Pariston is hoarding a ton of money, so just his ability to control money is considered a far greater threat to the Zodiac than Spiders. Political savvy also matters a lot, as we consistently see figures of authority trump Hunters and even the Association itself with their political power. So to be a successful Hunter, being the best at fighting isn't necessarily the way to go. It is easy to imagine plenty of Hunters focused their talent toward non combat talents and therefore do not want to fight against Spiders that clearly have all their talents focused on fighting. Again, I think there's a problem with the overemphasis on fighting makes it look like any random guy can just charge in to the presidential palace and take over the country. But clearly, there's no way that can possibly work or the world of HXH would already be controlled by the best fighters. It's not even possible to try to manipulate a head of state in all likelihood, again because if that was possible you'd already see the world of HXH controlled by Manipulation users. As powerful as aura is, it's implied that people in position of power know how to deal with it.
Remember that Hunters, as an organization, only deals with threats on the national level. It is legal for Hunters to kill innocent bystanders as long as it's not 'heinous', so the fact that Spiders murdered a bunch of mafia or some random rich guy isn't enough for them to care on the organizational level. Even Silva complains that killing a Spider isn't worth the money involved, so it's a lot of hard work for not much gain. Only someone who is truly selfless and dedicated to fighting evil would go after Spiders, but since the world of HXH is also pretty corrupt in general, such a guy would be going after say, Jairo, as pointed out in the above post, than the Spiders, because a guy secretly selling potent drugs to millions does far more harm to society than a bunch of murderers that occasionally go on a killing spree and then back to hiding.
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Hunters hunt, the Spiders have A-class bounties. Those who want to capture them are free to do so, Gon, Killua and Leorio did, but obviously if you are not skilled enough you will die. It depends on what the Hunters want to do.
@Phantron It's not that all Hunters are that powerful, but the title holds weight, Spiders being careful and smart must be one of the reasons why their bounties are so high(Kurapika had just killed Uvo too and Nen abilities can be tricky), even among them, not everyone is an excellent combatant, their skills are not just related to combat.
@Phantron It's not that all Hunters are that powerful, but the title holds weight, Spiders being careful and smart must be one of the reasons why their bounties are so high(Kurapika had just killed Uvo too and Nen abilities can be tricky), even among them, not everyone is an excellent combatant, their skills are not just related to combat.
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yeah its not public knowledge that not all the spiders are combat specialists; if you think all of them are equally dangerous beasts they do become an unattractive target
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I also think that the problem is that, if you are set on exterminating the spider, they strike back and quite horribly so.
If you kill one or two spider, then chrollo just replaces them and then, if you are an actual threat, he will be coming for you.
In gon's case it went all well because Phinks and Feitan didn't feel like killing Gon and Kill on the spot and Kurapika (seemingly) abandoned his plans of chasing the spider. It was a personal thing, it was settled and the spider stopped being bothered by the chain user (except for the heartchain).
It would be a different thing alltogether if someone is set to kil all the spider. We will see how it unfolds with hisoka, but Hisoka has the best chances of all people to do it.
He is incredibly strong and has no emotional connection to anything or anyone, so he cannot really be blackmailed (not even with toys) and he does not care about whether he lives or dies.
Any other crimehunter who just has this as a job, no matter how powerful he is, would think twice about fighting a relatively small threat for society who is still a gigantic threat to him and his family or organization.
The spider however obviously values its own member. Guys like Uvo are allowed to have their little fights on the side (after all, Uvo could easily have died against the shadow beasts), but when a situation is serious, they won't run in stupidly.
In the situation in whch they decided not to follow up chrollo's abduction team, it was one of such situations.
If they had all run after them and it was some nentrap, then about half of the spider woulda died with their boss being abducted, which could aswell have been the end of it.
So, I think that an individual spider does not really care for risks AS LONG AS the big whole is not threatened.
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Silva killed a Spider and nothing happened to him or his family. Hisoka killed a Spider to join the group and nothing happened to him in terms of retaliation. Machi thought that Chrollo might want to recruit the Chain Assassin to replace Uvo, so had he done that and Kurapika for whatever reason agreed, we'd assume he'd be just fine too as a member of the Spider.
It's hard for me to see the vengeance factor holding any weight against a Pro Hunter. If they're at all concerned about this, they can simply hire someone like Silva to do the job for them. The Spiders is literally a problem that can be solved by just throwing money at it and Pro Hunters are unbelievably wealthy. Now it is likely that no one feels strongly enough to invest the money into defeating them and that's perfectly fine, though that means they got to be a pretty small problem relative to things that Pro Hunters consider as important. In the Yorkshin auction, we're told a Pro Hunter donated 6 copies of GI which sold for well above 100 billion zenny combined, just to see if some new blood can finally beat this game. This amount of money is way more than the total bounty on the Spiders spent by the Mafia (2 billion per person) so it'd definitely be enough to hire Silva and Zeno, and note that any particular Hunter deciding to take them out wouldn't have to worry about retaliation because there would be no way to connect the source unlike the Mafia where Chrollo obviously can figure out that if they're hiring all these assassins then they'd also try to get the best ones.
All the Spiders are specialized for combat, or at least they view themselves as that way. That's why against Zazan they all split up instead of staying in groups, or that some of them are extremely stupid to go alone without being a combat specialist. You can't make arguments about being careful when the odds are 5 to 2 unless the 2 are extremely strong, and yet based on the Spiders reaction we can see that they had a unanimous decision that chasing after Kurapika + at least 1 Pro Hunter is too dangerous for just 5 people. Criminal in the world of HXH live in fear of Pro Hunter, not the other way around, though HXH sure did a terrible job at getting this point across. Sometimes it feels like maybe the point is that in a bid to raise more money the Hunter's Association end up selling a bunch of licenses to a ton of underqualified individuals just to make a quick buck, but regardless of the reason, the current world of HXH is still that the Hunter's Association is an entity whose supremacy cannot be challenged by anything other than a major nation. Even without any combat ability, the Spiders could be killed in a trivial fashion in a Zodiac meeting, which would go something like:
Mizu: "The Spiders kille a bunch of people in Yorkshin and I think that's a bad thing, but our blacklist hunters seem to be wimping out to captures the Spiders, and I'm too busy to deal with them myself. I'm willing to pitch in 5 billion to bring them to justice."
Ging: "I'll throw in 15 billion because for some reason I need to show off my incredible wealth to prove I'm awesome!"
Pariston: "That's the exact kind of problem I've been telling eveyrone about with our association, so I'm happy to pitch in 50 billion to help get rid of the problem. We need to make this a public event so that everyone knows the Hunter's Association will help the weak and isn't just a privileged club for the strong!"
Shortly after the Spiders would just get killed by the Zoldycks or whoever the Zodiac decided to hire. Nobody is going to be insane to sell out on the Zodiac to help the Spiders, and I highly doubt Ilumi ever tipped Chrollo off even in the Mafia case because that'd actually be pretty unprofessional for an assassin and Ilumi shows no particular loyalty to Chrollo. The fact that such an event never happened would suggest whatever Spiders are doing are never worth even a passing mention amongst the Zodiacs, which make sense when you consider when Mizu recruited Kurapika they're discussing things that involves taking down a likely heir of a major nation.
It's hard for me to see the vengeance factor holding any weight against a Pro Hunter. If they're at all concerned about this, they can simply hire someone like Silva to do the job for them. The Spiders is literally a problem that can be solved by just throwing money at it and Pro Hunters are unbelievably wealthy. Now it is likely that no one feels strongly enough to invest the money into defeating them and that's perfectly fine, though that means they got to be a pretty small problem relative to things that Pro Hunters consider as important. In the Yorkshin auction, we're told a Pro Hunter donated 6 copies of GI which sold for well above 100 billion zenny combined, just to see if some new blood can finally beat this game. This amount of money is way more than the total bounty on the Spiders spent by the Mafia (2 billion per person) so it'd definitely be enough to hire Silva and Zeno, and note that any particular Hunter deciding to take them out wouldn't have to worry about retaliation because there would be no way to connect the source unlike the Mafia where Chrollo obviously can figure out that if they're hiring all these assassins then they'd also try to get the best ones.
All the Spiders are specialized for combat, or at least they view themselves as that way. That's why against Zazan they all split up instead of staying in groups, or that some of them are extremely stupid to go alone without being a combat specialist. You can't make arguments about being careful when the odds are 5 to 2 unless the 2 are extremely strong, and yet based on the Spiders reaction we can see that they had a unanimous decision that chasing after Kurapika + at least 1 Pro Hunter is too dangerous for just 5 people. Criminal in the world of HXH live in fear of Pro Hunter, not the other way around, though HXH sure did a terrible job at getting this point across. Sometimes it feels like maybe the point is that in a bid to raise more money the Hunter's Association end up selling a bunch of licenses to a ton of underqualified individuals just to make a quick buck, but regardless of the reason, the current world of HXH is still that the Hunter's Association is an entity whose supremacy cannot be challenged by anything other than a major nation. Even without any combat ability, the Spiders could be killed in a trivial fashion in a Zodiac meeting, which would go something like:
Mizu: "The Spiders kille a bunch of people in Yorkshin and I think that's a bad thing, but our blacklist hunters seem to be wimping out to captures the Spiders, and I'm too busy to deal with them myself. I'm willing to pitch in 5 billion to bring them to justice."
Ging: "I'll throw in 15 billion because for some reason I need to show off my incredible wealth to prove I'm awesome!"
Pariston: "That's the exact kind of problem I've been telling eveyrone about with our association, so I'm happy to pitch in 50 billion to help get rid of the problem. We need to make this a public event so that everyone knows the Hunter's Association will help the weak and isn't just a privileged club for the strong!"
Shortly after the Spiders would just get killed by the Zoldycks or whoever the Zodiac decided to hire. Nobody is going to be insane to sell out on the Zodiac to help the Spiders, and I highly doubt Ilumi ever tipped Chrollo off even in the Mafia case because that'd actually be pretty unprofessional for an assassin and Ilumi shows no particular loyalty to Chrollo. The fact that such an event never happened would suggest whatever Spiders are doing are never worth even a passing mention amongst the Zodiacs, which make sense when you consider when Mizu recruited Kurapika they're discussing things that involves taking down a likely heir of a major nation.
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That is a different thing from targetting the spider as a whole.
Chrollo actively asks those who kill spiders to join the organization, because it means the spider as a whole gets stronger.
It is not about revenge, but it is about threats. If you kill a spider and they know that was a one-time event?
Fine.
If you try to destroy the spider as a whole like Hisoka does now? Then you will get into trouble
The problem is not the strength alone.
I'd rather argue that the chances of a pursuit would have been higher if less spiders had been involved if they had been sure that the information about this event would have been given to the rest of the group.
However, in this situation, there was danger to the complete group. If they had chased, that could have meant they run into a nentrap (which does not have a lot to do with strength, it could be some crazy condition that is set off by them chasing).
If only some of them chase, that would have meant leaving gon and kill alone or with only minor force to restrain them, which means risking their only lever for negotiations to get their boss back.
Even worse, if they got taken out there, it would have meant their boss being captured and the rest of the spider not even knowing what happened.
They just couldn't risk that.
This goes far beyond a personal death or two.
I would not judge it as being afraid to go against a pro hunter, but rather respecting that this event can mean the extermination of the spider.
If the spiders were so horribly afraid of pro hunters, they wouldnt act the way they do.
Uvo goes alone against the shadow beasts who are definitely stronger than many pro hunters are.
They go alone against the ants in the CA arc, and every single one of these ants has powers stronger than some pro hunters.
I think what was meant in this event is that a pro hunter possesses a refined nen ability which they do not understand, thus going after a guy who took out uvo plus a pro hunter with an unknown nen ability could mean dying in a situation that is too vulnerable to risk dying (something which the spider dont have a big issue with).
It also would never have been 2 on 5. Pakunoda was hurt, so they would have needed two spiders to stay back to guard gon and kill, so it would at best have been a 2n2 against people who have the surprise advantage and their boss as hostage, which is a really bad condition.
___
Aside from that I agree. If the zodiac would be dead set on exterminating the spider, all the spider could do would be hiding.
However, i would think that, on the other hand, the spider would require such a big effort for the crimefighting zodiac and pro hunters that this would mean abandoning more urgent cases. I do think that a guy like Mizaistom would be necessary to actually lead such an operation, it is not a small deal.
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Most, if not all of them are capable combatants, but that's not necessarily the same as being a combat specialist. Shizuku isn't weak, but her abilities aren't designed for combat situations necessarily. Same goes for the late Kortopi. It's just not common knowledge