He asked, Oden accepted. Because he wanted to understand how something that was passed down by his family, on a closed off land came to be in the possession of such a pirate and "commonplace" in the world; the poneglyph.
Nevertheless, he still took the leader of a country, to satisfy a selfish desire (morbid curiosity).
Maybe in the beginning of his journey Roger could be accused of of joyriding, and so could Luffy as you mentioned in your following post, after all Luffy does equate being Pirate King to being free to roam the seas. But it's clearly stated by Roger himself that he realised there was more to his journey than simply reaching the end.
Luffy is sailing for s**** and giggles too.
So yeah, i don't think that highly of him either. All the good he has done, has just been for the heck of it.
To disprove my joyride statement, you'd have to prove roger sailed for something more than the lolz. Saying that he found some deeper meaning to his action doesn't satisfy that.
The best you could say, is that good came from his actions, and that he was aware of that fact.
You can make a case for someone like Fisher tiger being noble but roger/luffy? They are just satisfying their own selfish desires with no real concern for anyone besides them self.
This manga is filled with horrible people who are only acting in their own self interest... and the people who foolishly follow them. To the point that i swear it's some sort of hidden message on oda's part.
for example
Whitebeard. Killed his whole crew to save Ace, so that he could continue to live vicariously through him, and fulfill his dream of becoming pirate king.
In Roger's defence he also didn't take Oden away from Wano, the latter had left many years prior and chose to continue the journey to discover more about the world and Wano/Kozuki's role in it.
Oden then chose to return and refused the crew's help when they offered to assist him in his aim to open Wano. After which Roger's crew disbanded, went their seperate ways. Considering this and the fact that Wano is secluded with hardly any information coming in or out of it, how were the remnants of that crew to know what was going on with him? So how could you find Roger responsible for his death in any way?
The degree in which roger's role played in making the situation worse is debatable. The fact remains though, he did play a role.
Like take a character like spiderman. I don't know if the events hold true for the comics but in the movies he was indirectly responsible for his uncle's death by letting a criminal go. When siderman learns this fact, he hunts down the dude, and then bla bla bla-
The point?
He takes away from the situation that, "with great power, comes great responsibility". From that you can see that he took accountability for his actions.
Something that roger failed to do. He took oden away from his people and when their journey was over basically went "good luck with that s*** back home".
...should Oden have asked for help?
Doesn't matter. Roger should've said f you, we're helping anyway. Even if he wasn't capable himself, simply sending some men with him, would've fulfilled his moral responsibility there. Oda writing in that one little act, would've resolved the issue... for roger at least.
If anyone is to blame here is Oden for being naive, which is clearly shown once he returns to Wano and accepts the truce from Kaido and Orochi for all those number of years, when he could've simply sent word for Whitebeard to come and assist him. But that's Oda's writing, which isn't perfect but Oden's fate was already determined before we even got to Wano.
this whole arc has been shockingly bad writing on oda's part. I wouldn't say it's at, bleach's blood war arc levels of bad, but it's getting there. like oda is just checking off plot points and calling it a day.
You can reply here,
@thedude you too. Leave the spoiler thread for its current discussions.
real talk, i didn't even know you replied to me, i found this post on a whim (...would've replied sooner had i known).
