Question Will She Join Them? (pls see post before voting!)

[kannazuki]

Chapter 48, page 44-ish, Bert:
"It's true that we deceived everyone, but... Not everything was a lie! I really did think of us as comrades! We have no way to apologize... but... somebody... please... somebody... I'm begging... somebody please find us."

Spoiler

On the page above, there's something interesting going on that maybe a lot of us missed at first: We get the manga equivalent of a zoom in; going from the gathering of former 104th trainees listening from outside Reiner's armored titan hands as Bertolt speaks (from within), to an image of Ymir's titan listening from Reiner's back, to Ymir inside the titan, then a closer look at Ymir, then a cut to crying Bertolt, and cut back to an extreme close up of the look on her face. And what a look it is. It's clear as day to me now that she not only understands exactly what Bertolt is talking about, but she empathizes with him too. Which explains what she's talking about in the extras to volume 12 here:

Spoiler

So what do you think, guys?

I think there's an opportunity for Bert and Reiner to do a near-180º here, where it comes to trusting Ymir. What if it's possible for them and her to-- rather than just using each other as they had been (unsuccessfully) until this point-- become proper allies? She even says it in the extra: she was powerless to do anything by herself. Of course it's sounded pretty bleak until now though. For the situation to suddenly go from certain death if she returns to the village to a chance she could survive and make peace with them? Looking forward to some more opinions...

 

[TheOwl]

Not sure because we know that Reiner and Bertl are small fry, and despite what they think of Ymir, their higher-ups might decide to kill her. On the other hand we don't know how small they are exactly, and/or what they might have to say to the higher-ups to protect Ymir. It's too early to say, we know next to nothing about the Warrior faction. We don't know what their exact purpose is, we don't know who leads it, and we don't know what the higher-ups of this faction exactly think of Ymir. You posed quite an interesting question though.

 

[kannazuki]

Yup, I'm waffling here, myself (between voting 'yes' or 'not sure'). While I see a strong likelihood that she's going to win the trust of those two above (if she hasn't already), I don't know what power they would have to protect her, back at their village. It's possible they could gamble protecting her just long enough to have the Warrior village leaders hear her story out, though. I'd like to see what more people have to say before I decide for myself.

 

[Demonspeed]

I think they are true companions now, seriously, how could she be lying here? She even said she could do nothing by herself, by saying that they are like her, she is putting them in the same category as Historia, when I think about it rationally at least. Plus Ymir wanted Historia's safety, now that she is safe I don't see why she would not trust those two.

 

[kannazuki]

I think they are true companions now, seriously, how could she be lying here? She even said she could do nothing by herself, by saying that they are like her, she is putting them in the same category as Historia, when I think about it rationally at least. Plus Ymir wanted Historia's safety, now that she is safe I don't see why she would not trust those two.

Oh either way I think she's telling the truth. What I'm talking about is a two-part thing I guess:

1.) Can she become true friends with Bert and Reiner?
-- So far we all seem to agree the answer to that is yes...

2.) Can the Warrior Faction (Bert & Reiner's village) be prevented from killing her if she goes back there with them?
-- This one's up in the air. Reiner's still saying right in that extra that she's dead meat if she tries to go back with them. I get the impression Bertolt's about to cry out of guilt there too, seemingly wishing he could do something to help her. So it's clear to me they don't want her killed, but they still think she's got a poor chance if she tries to accompany them on their trip home. It really sounds like her fate is out of their hands, the way they talk about it. They don't get a say in the matter. But still, this is a work of fiction. A relationship development like this should matter for something, or writing it in would be outright wasteful. There's always the small chance they could gamble on using whatever amount of power/standing they have to protect her, even if it's just to form a shaky truce.

Interesting logic there. Ymir said Historia and her are "alike" in chapter 40, and then here she's saying the boys are both like her, so if A = B, and B = C, then A = C, right? (I think there's a little drift in there, but fair enough.) Notice she also says "It's not bad to play goddess," literally admitting she's acting like Historia (by helping them)...

---------- Post added December 22, 2013 at 05:40 AM ---------- Previous post was December 21, 2013 at 04:56 PM ----------

Well, I framed it as an "is it possible she could..." question, so I'm going with "yes" after all.

 

[SPie]

The problem with Ymir returning to the human side, is that she knows too much, she has the knowledge to answer all the questions the scouting legion has been asking and more. So we may not see her reunite with them untill they find enough by themselves, which means spending more time with Reiner and Berthold. Ymir intrigues me so much, you never know if she is being selfish or not.

 

[Yumirusama]

Of course not. They want to kill her. And if she allies with them then she's also helping them destroy the walls which is exactly what she doesn't want.

 

[kannazuki]

Of course not. They want to kill her. And if she allies with them then she's also helping them destroy the walls which is exactly what she doesn't want.

It does seem Reiner and Bert have no way of stopping them from killing her. In voting, I supposed they might find a way to convince their superiors/elders/whatever to spare her. (Indeed I know I have nothing to go on in that direction except that I can't imagine Isayama is going to leave her stranded on the wall.) I think they feel indebted to her now, though, so even if they have to leave her behind for now, I have no doubt that Bert and Reiner will help her out in some way, later.

Welcome to the boards, by the way!

 

[Yumirusama]

It does seem Reiner and Bert have no way of stopping them from killing her. In voting, I supposed they might find a way to convince their superiors/elders/whatever to spare her. (Indeed I know I have nothing to go on in that direction except that I can't imagine Isayama is going to leave her stranded on the wall.) I think they feel indebted to her now, though, so even if they have to leave her behind for now, I have no doubt that Bert and Reiner will help her out in some way, later.

Welcome to the boards, by the way!

Thank you

Yeah I also do think that BR are going to help her out, especially Reiner seeing as he even offered her one last chance to run away. I just think it'd be really shitty if Ymir died and BR wouldn't do anything to stop it.

And I don't even think that Ymir will die. Isayama recently revealed in an interview that she's his favorite character. That might mean thaty he'll spare her or that he won't let her die for an unfair reason like it is her eatin Marcel (seeing as she isn't guilty)

 

[Demonspeed]

Isayama recently revealed in an interview that she's his favorite character. That might mean thaty he'll spare her or that he won't let her die for an unfair reason like it is her eatin Marcel (seeing as she isn't guilty)

What? I thought it was Jean. Even if she is his favorite character I don't see how it means she'll survive, in a manga like this, odds are low that she'll live till the end of the story.

 

[Yumirusama]

What? I thought it was Jean. Even if she is his favorite character I don't see how it means she'll survive, in a manga like this, odds are low that she'll live till the end of the story.

Isayama also said that he changed the ending because he thought it'd be a crime to kill off all the characters (Yes, he admitted that he had originally planned to kill off all the characters) so Ymir being his favorite might mean that he'll spare her this time.

Here's the link to the interview in at an Anime Expo in Taiwan

Translation:

''When asked about his favourite character in SnK, sensei said it's Ymir since he doesn't need to think that much to make her character work and express her potentials. However, the goddess Christa is the one giving him the most headache: it's a character who's difficult to control since herself doesn't even know what to think and what to do.''

 

[PIXISSUUU]

Going back to when we were introduced to R&B, it seemed like their story about how their hometown got invaded by Titan's was true. It may not have been near Wall Maria, but at some point I think they suffered tragedy at the hands of the Titans. Similarly, Annie seems to be desperate to get back. I think it gives us insight into what their "Warrior" mission is. Somehow what they are doing will save the Warrior people, and they are willing to sacrifice everyone within the walls to do it.

The "normal" titans appear to revere Ymir, and didn't eat her for 60 years while she roamed the wilderness. They do try to eat R&B, so we can presume Ymir is somehow responsible for the normal titans, and RBA is from a faction that opposes Ymir's faction. Apey's Titans, which operate at night and are therefore different than "Ymir's" titans, try to eat both RBA and Ymir, so they must be a third faction. Titans seem to instinctively know who to try to eat based on their creators. Ymir seems aware that RBA is somehow targeting Apey, so that seems to confirm that Apey is part of a third opposing faction.

Since they have a common enemy, I think that Ymir will end up joining with RBA & the Warriors against Apey. I think she will join them, and even get spared by the Warriors in a greater fight against Apey.

 

[kannazuki]

Going back to when we were introduced to R&B, it seemed like their story about how their hometown got invaded by Titan's was true. It may not have been near Wall Maria, but at some point I think they suffered tragedy at the hands of the Titans. Similarly, Annie seems to be desperate to get back. I think it gives us insight into what their "Warrior" mission is. Somehow what they are doing will save the Warrior people, and they are willing to sacrifice everyone within the walls to do it.

*nods* I also think the story Bert told was probably largely true. He even made the mistake of saying "south of Wall Maria" so he's clearly not the best liar out there...

The "normal" titans appear to revere Ymir, and didn't eat her for 60 years while she roamed the wilderness. They do try to eat R&B, so we can presume Ymir is somehow responsible for the normal titans, and RBA is from a faction that opposes Ymir's faction. Apey's Titans, which operate at night and are therefore different than "Ymir's" titans, try to eat both RBA and Ymir, so they must be a third faction. Titans seem to instinctively know who to try to eat based on their creators. Ymir seems aware that RBA is somehow targeting Apey, so that seems to confirm that Apey is part of a third opposing faction.

I don't think there are likely many (if any) other titans like the one that revered Ymir and spoke (!) of "Ymir's people." That one was clearly an anomaly even among deviant types. Also, if there were so many others like him, we should have seen them reacting to her in Trost or any time they were outside the walls. Ymir wasn't attacked for 60 years because she was *mindless* just like the other titans. Remember the "endless nightmare" she referred to, and the image of (her) one cloudy eyeball, rolled back in its socket? Clear indicators she was like any other ordinary titan at the time. And regular titans don't attack their own.

Since they have a common enemy, I think that Ymir will end up joining with RBA & the Warriors against Apey. I think she will join them, and even get spared by the Warriors in a greater fight against Apey.

I hope so.