Seinen xxxHolic by CLAMP

[aquamaryna]

Re: xxxHolic 179 Discussion/180 Prediction Thread

No, the Japanese meaning of the word "dream" ("yume") is much like the English. Both your literal dreams while you're asleep and your dreams as in hopes or wishes. =]

[Although don't get it confused with the wishes granted at the shop. When I read "wish" ("negai") I get an impression that the client has a strong desire they want realized.]

 

[Tsubasaholic]

Re: The Yuuko Ichihara Shrine

Words to live by:

"Let's eat barbeque and fill our brains with joy"

 

[Lady Sakura-chan]

Re: The Yuuko Ichihara Shrine

Yuko`s bossy atitude is a wonderful trait of hers as well!

 

[ShirubiaLamperouge]

Re: The Yuuko Ichihara Shrine

YAY!!! Yuuko and her barbeques...

 

[Tsubasaholic]

Re: The Yuuko Ichihara Shrine

In the words of Watanuki: "She drinks too much! She's lazy! She's egoistic! She's shameless! She always makes me work to hard! But I'm glad to have met her"

More words to live by:

"There's not a single person in this world who belongs only to themselves"

"Whatever exists, exists. It's as simple as that!"

"If you lie in the middle of the road people will sit on you"

"It's OK to say "I don't understand"" I don't understand TRC at the moment!!!

 

[ZaCloud]

Re: xxxHolic 179 Discussion/180 Prediction Thread

Well, let's see...

It has already been said that the dream world is a world in and of itself, even though our dreams are each our own. We just happen to only be in certain corners of that world at a time, but could theoretically run into anyone else who's soul is visiting.

But when you die, your soul leaves your body... so does it stay in the dream world? Cuz in Tsubasa as Tomoyo-hime said, she was able to visit Kurogane from a dream since he was about to die (or something like that). Haruka-san, being dead, may be in the dream world because of that. Maybe in xxxHolic, when Watanuki kept slipping more and more into dreams with his waking hours disjointed, it was because he was wavering at "death", at non-existence, since it was a time when he was in strong self-doubt and unsure of whether to keep existing or not. So he kept dabbling around at the world of death, of dreams.

And the cherry tree still further reinforces this. To the Japanese, the Sakura is a symbol of the transience of life. The blossoms exist for only a short time, beautiful and delicate, and so quickly die and fall to the ground. That is why they turn out to view the blossoms every spring, to enjoy that brief period of the flowers' lives before their inevitable and all-too-soon falling. It's our mortality that makes our lives so precious. That it could end any moment, that you try to enjoy all of it that you can.

So the tree is a symbol of transience, delicate beauty, or death, in most cases. Seems it might fit into the equation.

 

[ZaCloud]

Re: How is the Time in xxxHolic Related to the Time in TRC?

I've been beyond busy lately, or I'd be looking for intersections myself. But I did stumble upon one while looking for a particular scene in xxxHolic, then got lucky with the Tsubasa find...

xxxHolic chapter 42: White Mokona tells Yuuko about Kurogane eating the snack.
Tsubasa chapter 34: That happens.

(both of these being the weekly release chapters as displayed on onemanga.com, not the tankouban (manga book volumes), as I think those are rearranged differently. This really complicated me trying to look up chapters when they didn't line up with the tankouban. Hyuuuu~. )

Now we just need to find out how long after the holiday that Yuuko waits for their return gifts in xxxHolic, and when they are given in Tsubasa, and we can get a general idea of the timeflow. Although, each world they're in may flow differently, so that might not tell us too much anyway.

 

[Tsubasaholic]

Re: xxxHolic 179 Discussion/180 Prediction Thread

The links between sleep and death. . . Zoroastrianism describes sleep as a form of death; in the Ancient Greek pantheon Thanatos, god of death, was the twin of Hypnos, god of sleep; Shakespeare said "For in that sleep of death what dreams may come"; Voltaire (who absloutely PWNED) once described lying around in bed all day as being in an "intermediate state between life and death"; and that's only the ones I can come up with off the top of my head. Is dying like falling asleep or waking up? I guess I'll find out someday. . . OK! hastily changes the subject.

Isn't it the case that only dreamseers can enter the dream world proper?

What's interesting is the world of the spirits and the world of dreams are quite distinct in xxxHolic. The spirit world is sort of blended into the human world and some people have the power to see it but the dream world is a very seperate place (except if you're in Yuuko's shop but I think the shop is half in the dream world anyway). Dead people seem to be more in the world of spirits. My theory about Haruka is he's dreamseeing from the past when he was alive and that's why he's in the dream world and not the spirit one.

If there is a relationship between the dream world and dying (perhaps people pass through there on their way to whatever) it would explain how Yuuko was able to interfere (yay!) with the dissappearances of the clones from the dream world. One thing that is a tad vexing is it seems as though the clones are physically present in the dream world which, as Shirubia pointed out, does contradict what Yuuko said at one point.

 

[ZaCloud]

Re: xxxHolic 179 Discussion/180 Prediction Thread

Yeah, that bothered me too about the clones being there. But maybe it's just some odd exception due to them being, well, clones. Or maybe only their souls were summoned there and are just acting as their general avatars (though yeah, Yuuko did mention Sakura's body so that's not surefire).

Or maybe they're not in the dreamworld but some other dimension, like how Fei Wong Reed seems to have his own little pocket, who's to say Yuuko doesn't have the same. She's gone to many strange and unknown places, after all, such as the god-creating ceremony.

I just hope we get an explanation eventually. If not... eh, it's one thing I can actually let slide since it wouldn't affect things overall. I'm frankly far more interested in answers to the rest of the cluster-funk going on. Hence why I'm not speculating too much; I tend to just sit back and wait for the next chapter, though I do like to reflect on what has been.

And back to the topic at hand... I'm so proud of Watanuki-kun!! His first client was a Huge Success! Yuuko-san's sly comment about Watanuki possibly being there forever may very well be true, though in a way he never could have imagined. By touching other people's lives, he is further validating his existence, more and more. Becoming a "real" person which he had been in such doubt about.

And while he lack's Yuuko's mysterious powers, he is far more personal and self-inclusive it seems. He isn't willing to just sit back and let things run their course as Yuuko-san did, even though he's by now wise enough to know how hitsuzen works. After all, Yuuko knew that Watanuki would do all he could when she made him help out before, so it's not really against her design after all, that he continue to do so. For him, it's his decision as a human being, to help people as much as he can, but at the same time, letting them still help themselves. He's just too stubborn to give up on anyone, and seems quite lax with his "payment".

He is himself. Watanuki is Watanuki. He lent his perseverance to a woman who was humanly afraid of ugly reality, allowing her the courage to face it and begin to overcome it. Awesome victory! A true answer to Syaoran's plea for him not to disappear. This was far from mundane; it was the ultimate realization of Watanuki as a human being. Though there is still more in store for him... What of his beloved missing friends, his own food self-tasting, and the egg that his vigilant guardian Doumeki is poised to use?

I'm so excited! This wait is soooo hard! But it'll be worth it!

 

[Tsubasaholic]

Re: xxxHolic 179 Discussion/180 Prediction Thread

Good to see you again ZaCloud

I think food lady's payment was a combination of helping Watanuki to his breakthroughs (what's coming up for him that meant Yuuko was putting him in the path of a reminder?) and having to acknowledge reality.

Would running the shop work without Yuuko's extensive magic power? I'm not 100% sure it wouldn't.

Maybe they're in a similar pocket to the shop. I'm convinced the shop is linked to the dream world and things physically exist there, or at least seem to, so it could be another place like that.Watanuki did lose his glasses in the dream world and there are other examples of physical objects being passed through it (or not, remember the photograph of Doumeki in a kimono that Haruka showed Watanuki? Yuuko says the reason he doesn't have the photo in physical existence is because he didn't take it in the dream, which implies physical objects can be passed through the dream world).

I've jsut thought of something that supports your point about death being linked to the dream world. Remember when Watanuki falls out the window and almost dies (for what it's worth, the last time we se Maru and Moro is the morning of his big disaster)? He sees his parents and Haruka in the place where he goes. we know Haruka inhabits the deam world and we're 80% or so certian that Wtanuki's parents were there as well so it's easy to assume that he was in the dream world.

I never intend to predict. I just try to make sense of what's going on and it sometimes follows from there.

The god creating ceremony is interesting. I'm rereading xxxHolic at the mo and I've ntoiced that there are four times that Yuuko wears her "Witch of the dimensions outfit" from TRC. The first is when she winds back time. The second is when she greets the TRC crew, the third is when she sends on R!Syaoran, the fourth is at the god creating ceremony. The other three events are all very important to the TRC plot. I highly doubt the god creating ceremony will be but it does make me wonder what it is.

Doumeki and the egg really interest me. As I read I've been writing down every single one of the things said about it and this is what I have so far. He gets the egg because he helped collect the water, the egg is important for "That moment which must come" (am seriously betting said moment has something to do with R!Syaoran's choice), it's also important that Doumekis be able to "see things", an ability he got from sharing an eye with Watanuki, so the "Last moment won't be the last". Then there's the extreme importance of him "not hesitating" which is quite often repeated.

 

[Lady Sakura-chan]

Re: How is the Time in xxxHolic Related to the Time in TRC?

ZaCloud, it is great to see you back online!
In the swedish translation Yuko says that she had been wathing for five days to raturn gifts after sending the chocolate.

 

[Lady Sakura-chan]

Re: The Yuuko Ichihara Shrine

BEST PICTURES OF YUKO EVER!!!
www.onemanga.com/xxxHolic/133/12
www.onemanga.com/xxxHolic/133/13
www.onemanga.com/xxxHolic/134/09
www.onemanga.com/xxxHolic/144/14

Saddest reminder of what Yuko can do and can not do
www.onemanga.com/xxxHolic/133/17

 

[Tsubasaholic]

Re: The Yuuko Ichihara Shrine

And yet more words to live by:

"Everything lives by blending, interconnecting, and mutually influencing one another. Even a merely trivial meeting brings about changes of the heart and body"

What gets me about this is it's true of every single kind of meeting, not just person to person encounters and relationships. I know I've been changed by the stories I've read, seen, and heard in my life as well as by the people. TRC and xxxHolic are no exeption to this, quite the contrary, I know that someway, somehow I'm a different person for having read them. Maybe not significantly different, but different. When it comes right down to it it would be fair to say that the words of Yuuko Ichihara have changed who I am.

 

[KaNx]

xxxHolic 180 Discussion/181 Prediction Thread

The new chapter is out, you can grab it here

When you're done, discuss it here and predict what the next one's going to be all about ^^

 

[Tsubasaholic]

Re: xxxHolic 180 Discussion/181 Prediction Thread

Yuuko. . . Don't disappear. . .

 

[DontWakeMeUp]

Re: xxxHolic 180 Discussion/181 Prediction Thread

Wow. Uh... o_o
I don't really know what to say right now.
She's really... disappearing, but more in the sense of never having existed at all. Oh geez... Not good.

 

[ZaCloud]

Re: xxxHolic 180 Discussion/181 Prediction Thread

Oh maaaaaan.... What the heck? Whyyyy?! People couldn't have gotten to where they are now without Yuuko-san, so there's no way she couldn't have existed! But... then again, with all the messing-with-reality Fei Wong Reed is doing behind the curtain, who knows...

But that's not fair... Yuuko-saaaan... ;_;

Watanuki! Quick! Go to the granny fortune-teller's place! See if she and Kohane-chan still remember Yuuko-san!!! (Man I wish manga chars could hear me sometimes...)

 

[ShirubiaLamperouge]

Re: xxxHolic 180 Discussion/181 Prediction Thread

Argh no! Yuuko!!!

Why are Doumeki and Watanuki so far exempt from forgetting her... Gah what if she's being forgotten in like backwards order by the people that met her... So food lady would have forgotten ages ago, and the twins maybe just recently. And that would mean that eventually Watanuki would forget her too... He can't forget her! That'd just be wrong!

 

[Full Metal Hyde]

Re: xxxHolic 180 Discussion/181 Prediction Thread

Hi! I' not new to this forum, i'm actually more like a reader than a writer XD, but i couldn't stop from posting after i read this chapter... i was like "holy cow! nooooooo", my worst nightmare is coming true!!!... i wanted to throw up, i still want to throw up....

Or maybe this is just like those crappy "invented-endings" like captain tsubasa.... they will all woke up one day in a rehabilitation clinic for drug addicts XD...

Dunno what's going on, but i don't like it, and will like it even less if Watanuki forget her too xox

 

[MirandaMedication]

Re: xxxHolic 180 Discussion/181 Prediction Thread

Hello there =] I'm new to the forum~

Oh no, Yuuko!
I'm not entirely sure she's disappearing... perhaps it's just that Watanuki will not need her, like that time Doumeki (I think) couldn't see the shop because he was not destined to go in there. Perhaps everyone who meets her forgets her after a while, apart from those who constantly meet her, like the fortune teller or the TRC crew... but I'm doubting that theory is anywhere near true!
Since I only read Tsubasa by the volume (so I'm up to vol. 19, Infinity), and I never read it online, I don't know if theres anything going on with FWR. Like dark and light can't exist wthout eachother, can FWR & Yuuko exist without the other?

Aaargh! Damn you, Clamp, and your complicated storylines!