- Joined
- Jan 10, 2014
- Messages
- 3,514
- Reaction score
- 6,055
- Age
- 39
- Gender
- Male
- Country
-
I thought with how often Yonko Commanders and Admirals come up, especially in power level discussions that it might make sense to have a special thread for it. If I'm wrong: feel free to move it, but I am going to put more effort into it than the average post there and would appreciate if possible that it not get lost in the Zoro/Sanji/YC1,2,3,4 noise there.
I have made it well known that I hate the YC[1,2,3, .. N] ranking system, as it's rooted in non-sense, fan-fiction, and often used as method of trying to prove their favorite character is more powerful than someone else's favorite character. The system is flawed in a few key ways:
So here it goes:
----------------------------------------------
Portgas D. Ace
Feats:
Bounty: 550,000,000 (higher than Luffy's post-Dressrosa bounty)
Fights:
Vista
Feats:
Bounty: Unknown
Fights:
----------------------------------------------
Marco the Phoenix
Feats:
Fights:
----------------------------------------------
Charlotte Katakuri
Feats:
Fights (all during WCI arc):
Defeated by: Monkey D Luffy
Notes: There is some debate about the credibility of his defeat by Luffy. I'm looking at this objectively; he was defeated by Luffy. I don't believe he let Luffy win, and I think the fight was one of the most critical points of growth in the entire series for Luffy. Katakuri's subsequent respect for Luffy wasn't the respect one would show their child after letting their child defeat them in chess. It was the respect for one who earned their respect through perseverance and growth. Luffy's retreats were strategy and Katakuri's oversights were faults. In many cases, overconfidence is a weakness as we witnessed with Katakuri who could have ensured Luffy's death at various moments but did not due to overestimating his own abilities while underestimating Luffy's.
----------------------------------------------
Charlotte Cracker
Feats:
Fights:
Notes: Cracker is a contention point among many members, specifically many who don't feel Luffy defeated him "fairly." Cracker also happens to be a fighter who fits the "rock-paper-scissors" paradigm very well. Some (brute force) fighters will struggle greatly against such an overwhelming ability. Others who can utilize water (Jinbei), or manipulate the environment (Law) are fighters who I believe would do well against Cracker, despite not being objectively stronger than Luffy at the time he fought with this man. Cracker's durability was far behind Luffy's. He carried a great amount of stamina, and his overconfidence also contributed to his defeat. He is a strong example of why the YC1,2,3,N is not exactly a good metric for measuring Yonko Commanders. Overall Cracker would do well against brutish fighters such as Burgess, Jack, and Luffy. Any fighter who can change the environment to their advantage either by producing water or otherwise immobilizing his Biscuit Warriors will still have to content with a strong swordsman. Luckily, they just need to get one blow to win the battle. One of the most broken, weirdest abilities in the series given to one of the least durable, highest stamina fighters; This guy was a point of debate for so long for good reason.
----------------------------------------------
Jack the Drought
Feats:
Fights:
Notes: While he's been defeated a lot, it's more a testament to how ballsy he is than anything else. He has no fear of anything that we've seen. He also tends to recover quickly and come back for vengeance. Also worth noting he's only 28, and has accomplished a lot for that age. His love of destruction, strength, and durability have allowed him to confidently fight a wide array of enemies. Most of his defeats could be classified as inconveniences, with his most recent one being fairly final. Overall Jack does well in shows of strength and durability. Any enemy who has a tricky ability such as Law or Hawkins would likely due well against Jack. High speed fighters who also have high attack power and stamina would do well, also. He's not above using cheap tricks to win, and has some at his disposal.
----------------------------------------------
Queen the Plague
Feats:
Fights:
----------------------------------------------
King the Conflagration
Feats:
Fights:
Notes: King almost appears like a double-DF user, being able to dip into his fire manipulation, and pteranodon abilities. Without a ton of data it's hard to compare him directly to existing Yonko Commanders other than to say that he's held his own against Marco, who held his own against Kizaru, who is an Admiral. King places too much confidence in his Lunarian heritage and didn't perceive defeat as a possibility when facing Zoro. He's a well balanced fighter who can do well in most situations. I'd like to believe he could "survive" or escape a Yonko in most situations, and defeat or hold off most fellow Yonko Commanders indefinitely. He low-diffs his fellow Calamities, IMO. His fire manipulation has created attacks that Zoro described to be "like magma." They've also been shown to have long-range capabilities similar to Ace's Hiken. Overall I think King is one of the most well-balanced Yonko Commanders that we've seen in the series. He's the first non-Yonko to really push Zoro to his limits post time-skip, and he's the last known Lunarian. He hails from a race that ruled the world like Gods, and he seems to have mastery over his racial abilities and his Devil Fruit. He can adapt to fighting opponents of different styles whether it be a swordsman, brawler, shinobi, or whatever. His final attack creating a literal fire dragon granted him a much more epic end than his peers.
I'd like to add more when I have more time, as well as an analysis of the admirals that's a bit more objective. In summary I will say:
If we want to rank or create rankings of Yonko Commanders, we need to do so cyclically. There are definitely situations where:
YC A defeats YC B
YC B defeats YC C
YC C defeats YC A.
For instance, let's assume Luffy fought Cracker WITHOUT Nami. Luffy would have lost.
Cracker defeats Luffy
Luffy defeats Katakuri
Katakuri defeats Cracker
It's really hard to fit them to any solid ranking system based on the fact that we typically see them in snapshots of time throughout the series - for instance, Vista fought Hawkeye two years ago. Katakuri was defeated by Luffy weeks ago. Cracker was defeated the day before Katakuri.
Is the Katakuri of two weeks ago weaker than the King of today? We can't really say. We have to analyze what they've done, their quirks / abilities, and with the lack of overlap between the two they're really hard to compare. What we do know is they exist in a level where they aren't likely to be low-diffed by Yonko, but objectively cannot defeat a Yonko.
Is Cracker a "top tier Commander"? He fought Luffy, and nearly defeated him, mere hours before Luffy took on Katakuri. I would argue Katakuri is objectively stronger than Cracker, but that the match-up system is at play here. Katakuri is more well-rounded, so he defeats both.
Has Marco defeated anyone notable? Does the answer to that question make him weak? Does the fact that we've never seen him defeated objectively make him strong? Who knows.
Ace has been called weak on these forums despite fighting with Blackbeard, a now-Yonko and someone even Shanks struggled with. Was Ace ever worthy of being called weak?
TLDR: This isn't DBZ. While "rankings" work for some fighters, they utterly fail with others. At the end of the day Oda makes characters as strong as they need to be in the moment. For example, is Shiryu stronger than King? We don't really know. What we do know is that Shiryu will likely fight Zoro, and Zoro has defeated King. Yonko Commanders have little overlap in their matchups, and apparent vast differences in strength (ranging from "you're really a yonko commander?!" to "spars with WSS" and beyond). Look at comparisons objectively. Cracker isn't a "YC2" - whatever the fuck that means - when you want to compare him to Zoro or something. He's a fighter with a strong ability who pushed gear four Luffy at a time before Luffy had advanced COO / Ryuo and COC. He was as strong as he needed to be at the moment he fought Luffy.
I have made it well known that I hate the YC[1,2,3, .. N] ranking system, as it's rooted in non-sense, fan-fiction, and often used as method of trying to prove their favorite character is more powerful than someone else's favorite character. The system is flawed in a few key ways:
- It is rarely backed by evidence of any kind
- There is no consistency or agreement in the rankings. One user will claim X is YC1, and another will claim X is YC3
- It is completely fan-made, and tends to ignore rock-paper-scissor situations that One Piece often has using comparisons that don't make a ton of sense
- It tries to apply a linear power-scaling system over a world where battles contain a lot of complexity with varying abilities (future-sight, enhanced COC, specialized DF's, etc..)
- What makes them special? I'm talking feats and special haki / abilities. For simplicity we'll assume everyone in this post is capable of basic haki
- What is their devil fruit ability? If any. If relevant, a list of strengths and weaknesses
- What is their bounty?
- Notable fights, and their outcomes, relative to the time they happened.
- A list of potential good match ups (Where the outcome ranges from an equal match, to being able to defeat said match-up easily)
- A list of potential bad match ups (where the YC / Admiral in question definitely loses)
- If relevant, a "defeated by" section
- Any relevant notes regarding how they may face off against other opponents
So here it goes:
----------------------------------------------
Portgas D. Ace
Feats:
- COC user
- Was one of the few OP characters who was incredibly strong from a young age - defeating adults as a child
- Was invited to join the Shichibukai after an incredibly short pirating career
- Son of the Pirate King, adopted grandson of Garp, brother of Luffy, and Sabo
Bounty: 550,000,000 (higher than Luffy's post-Dressrosa bounty)
Fights:
- Pre-WBP:
- Fought Yamato equally in his pre-Whitebeard time
- Fought Jinbei for five days straight just before being integrated into the Whitebeard Pirates
- Whitebeard-ish time:
- Fought Whitebeard 100 times, improving in his abilities with every subsequent battle after the first
- Pre-timeskip, end of life, WBP Second Commander:
- Cancelled out Smoker (this was before Haki was well defined. Not sure how it would have really gone with current fighting mechanics)
- Wiped out a fleet of Baroque Works Billions instantaneously
- While he was defeated by Blackbeard, he was still a league ahead of Blackbeard's base crew, to the point Blackbeard himself told them to stand back and avoid injury
- Cancelled out Aokiji's attack
- Ultimately killed by a blow from Akainu, where he was clearly outmatched
- Aokiji - this would be a real determination of who has the most masterful fighting form, as well as mastery over their abiility. Ice and Fire could cancel each other out, but 5000C fire could probably defeat weak ice.
- Marco - it would be interesting to see how the Phoenix Fire contends with the power of the Mera Mera no Mi. I'm convinced this would be a close one
- Potentially bad: Cracker. I don't think that fire would be incredibly effective against Cracker. With Cracker's COA and ability to continually create more and more biscuit warriors, this could be a tough one for Ace
- Very bad: Akainu, as we saw. Any wielder of the Magu Magu no Mi is going to rely 100% on the Mera Mera user's physical capabiliities.
- Whitebeard
- Blackbeard
Vista
Feats:
- Strongest swordsman in the Whitebeard Pirates
- Uses a form of two-sword style fighting
Bounty: Unknown
Fights:
- Fought Hawkeye one-on-one. Was able to block Hawkeye's attacks and launch attacks of his own
- Fought Akainu with Marco
----------------------------------------------
Marco the Phoenix
Feats:
- Was able to hold his own against Admirals in Marineford
- Rescued Luffy multiple times in Marineford
- Able to repel the entirety of the Big Mom pirates from ascending to Wano / Onigashima
- Was mentioned by name when the Gorosei were discussing who could defeat Blackbeard (along with Big Mom)
- Medical knowledge (amplified by his DF)
- Phoenix Grants him the regenerative abilities of a Phoenix, as well as ability to heal others.
- Its flames slow the spread of the Ice-Oni virus created by Queen, and are one of the few things that's been shown to harm Big Mom's Homie, Napoleon
- Flight
- Unique hybrid form which includes the Phoenix's talons, as well as flight, and flames
Fights:
- Pre-timeskip:
- Fought with Kizaru (later cuffed with seastone due to being distracted)
- Fought with Aokiji
- Fought against Akainu with Vista (landing blows, and blocking Akainu's punch)
- During Timeskip:
- Fought, and was defeated by the Blackbeard Pirates
- Post-timeskip:
- Fought Big Mom, who mentioned she didn't have the souls to spare on fighting Marco given the situation
- Fought King and Queen in a 2v1 situation. This ultimately wore him down and he would have likely been defeated had it continued on, but the fight was out of his favor, and his purpose was successful: Holding the two off from wiping out the entire Live Floor
- Kizaru - they fought before and were relatively evenly matched
- Aokiji - would be interesting to see the phoenix flames against the Ice Admiral
- Big Mom - He was able to harm her homies, and drain her energy, while going toe-to-toe with her. Big Mom wins, but if we analyze the Soru Soru vs. the Phoenix ability, it's actually a wash which pushes the battle into the hands of their users
- Perospero - Marco feared his arrows and I believe the two are more closely matched than we'd be led to believe.
- King (1v1) - Two flying DF users who utilize flames. This would be a great fight. I think ultimately Marco wins this if it's uninterrupted, and both fighters are at full strength from start to finish.
- Katakuri - a strong ability user with strong COO and haki, immense stamina, and durability would be well-suited for a "good fight"
- Blackbeard - a lot of his real impressive features are built into his ability which would be cancelled out
- Akainu - I think the attack power of Akainu's magma, paired with the fact that Akainu is objectively a Yonko-level fighter, would put this fight in the hands of Akainu. While I don't think it would be a quick, easy win for Akainu, I think it would be best for Marco to avoid this fight
- (ish) Onigumo and Kizaru (ish because he was distracted)
- Blackbeard (though we didn't see it, it's implied they probably met on the battlefield. We only know the WB Pirates lost), so file this under maybe.
- (ish) King and Queen (ish because he's OK, and I don't think their defeat was his goal)
----------------------------------------------
Charlotte Katakuri
Feats:
- First fighter witnessed using advanced COO, which allowed him to see into the future
- COA that exceeded Luffy's, utilized in his block mochi punches
- Awakened Devil Fruit
- Undefeated his entire life prior to meeting Luffy
- Referred to as the Invincible Superman by the Charlotte Family. Known for his reliability and calm demeanor.
- Most similar fighting style to Luffy's that we have seen in the series
- Can launch jelly-beans like bullets, assassinating mid-tier fighters and lower from afar
- Has more insight than Big Mom, a Yonko, as he was the only one to figure out what was going on at the Wedding before it was too late
- Extremely intelligent. The only Charlotte who thought to wait for the Straw Hat Pirates on their own ship
- Expertly wields the spear, Mole
- Bound-man Luffy was no match for him
- Strengths:
- First "special paramecia" we see - the Mochi Mochi no Mi
- Combined with his advanced COO his ability makes him nigh-invincible
- The ability's stickiness allows him to trap even strong fighters such as Luffy, and beat them into submission
- Able to replicate Luffy's fighting style
- With Awakening he can utilize his ability similar to Doflamingo's awakening, turning the environment into Mochi and heavily leaning any battles into his favor
- Uses an altered, advanced form of COA that was shown to be superior to Luffy's at the time
- COC user
- Weaknesses:
- Weak against tea / hot liquids. Fighters like Jinbei could potentially use this to their advantage
Fights (all during WCI arc):
- Fought Ichiji (defeated with ease)
- Fought Luffy for nearly 12 hours
- Any physical fighter barring an actual Yonko. Katakuri was shown to be incredibly competent and well balanced.
- Cracker - Advanced COO and impermeability would obliterate Cracker
- King - I have a feeling this would be a great fight. King doesn't appear to have advanced COO, but it would be interesting to see how the Lunarian's flames, and pteranodon abilities would fare against Katakuri's COO, and Mochi. Both fighters are both durable, and powerful, and wield COC
- Kizaru - I imagine Katakuri is one of the few fighters who could keep up with the Light Admiral. Given we haven't seen much overlap in their fights and abilities, we could likely assume that Katakuri would lose this one, but not without a long fight
- Any Yonko -
- Kaido - too strong and durable. Easy win for Kaido
- Blackbeard - Katakuri utilizes his fruit a bit too much, and Blackbeard would probably take a few hits, but win this one fairly easily
- Akainu - Magma wins again, IMO. Too fucking hot for Katakuri. The man who blew off half of Whitebeard's face could probably win this one
- Fujitora - I imagine his increased perception / blindness has more to it than meets the eye (sorry, bad joke). He is probably a strong counter to advanced COO, and his ability to manipulate gravity could potentially counter this as well
Defeated by: Monkey D Luffy
Notes: There is some debate about the credibility of his defeat by Luffy. I'm looking at this objectively; he was defeated by Luffy. I don't believe he let Luffy win, and I think the fight was one of the most critical points of growth in the entire series for Luffy. Katakuri's subsequent respect for Luffy wasn't the respect one would show their child after letting their child defeat them in chess. It was the respect for one who earned their respect through perseverance and growth. Luffy's retreats were strategy and Katakuri's oversights were faults. In many cases, overconfidence is a weakness as we witnessed with Katakuri who could have ensured Luffy's death at various moments but did not due to overestimating his own abilities while underestimating Luffy's.
----------------------------------------------
Charlotte Cracker
Feats:
- Proficient enough in his ability that even the WG doesn't know what he actually looks like, as the wanted poster is of his "Biscuit Warrior"
- Defeated Urouge (albeit after Urouge defeated Snack)
- First opponent to "push" Gear 4 Luffy
- Skilled Swordsman
- Advantages:
- Strange paramecia that allows its user to conjure biscuits
- Biscuits are durable enough that they were too tough for base-Luffy (post-timeskip) to destroy
- Biscuits can be "worn" as armor, and all wield swords and shields
- When wielded by a true master-user, you can even simulate a "dying warrior" with concocted jelly-blood
- Disadvantages:
- Biscuits are weak to water, which may create a rock-paper scissors effect with various enemies (for instance, Jinbei can "throw" water)
- Being able to fight with these soldiers gives him too much confidence, and has turned him into a glass cannon who can't take hits from strong fighters
- Ability does drain his stamina
Fights:
- (During time-skip): Urouge
- (During WCI arc): Monkey D Luffy and Nami
- Luffy
- Vergo - his reliance on brute force attacks would have made this a tough fight
- Doflamingo - another physical user who would have trouble dealing with the biscuit warriors
- Kidd (I think the reliance on blunt force would make this a difficult fight for Kidd)
- Ulti - Another brute. Going to need really strong COA to put a crack into Cracker
- Jinbei - the ability to "fling" water would be detrimental to his reliance on Biscuit Warriors
- Law - manipulating the environment could potentially allow Law to remove Cracker from his "shield" of the warriors, and quickly end the fight
- Akainu - Hot liquid. I think the Magu Magu would obliterate Cracker
- Kizaru - Too fast, and the beams, if able to overcome his shields, would destroy him
Notes: Cracker is a contention point among many members, specifically many who don't feel Luffy defeated him "fairly." Cracker also happens to be a fighter who fits the "rock-paper-scissors" paradigm very well. Some (brute force) fighters will struggle greatly against such an overwhelming ability. Others who can utilize water (Jinbei), or manipulate the environment (Law) are fighters who I believe would do well against Cracker, despite not being objectively stronger than Luffy at the time he fought with this man. Cracker's durability was far behind Luffy's. He carried a great amount of stamina, and his overconfidence also contributed to his defeat. He is a strong example of why the YC1,2,3,N is not exactly a good metric for measuring Yonko Commanders. Overall Cracker would do well against brutish fighters such as Burgess, Jack, and Luffy. Any fighter who can change the environment to their advantage either by producing water or otherwise immobilizing his Biscuit Warriors will still have to content with a strong swordsman. Luckily, they just need to get one blow to win the battle. One of the most broken, weirdest abilities in the series given to one of the least durable, highest stamina fighters; This guy was a point of debate for so long for good reason.
----------------------------------------------
Jack the Drought
Feats:
- Insane durability and stamina. Was able to battle the Mink Kings for five days without stopping or sleeping while they rested on intervals.
- Near insane level of confidence. He was willing to take on an Admiral-led fleet to free Doflamingo
- Practical to the point that he's incredibly dangerous. Nearly committed genocide on the Minks over a single Ninja
- Was able to fight multiple Sulong'd Mink Warriors head on while atop the Dome
- Being a fishman, he can breath under water but can't swim due to his consumption of a DF
- Has taken a hit:
- Zunisha smashed him
- Sunken by Marine Fleet
- Took a beating from the Mink Kings
- Took a slash across the chest from Ashura
- Took many blows from Sulong'd Minks
- Advantages:
- Being an ancient Zoan, he gets an insane amount of durability from this fruit
- Incredible strength bonus, as mammoths (and elephants in general) were/are very strong
- Gains powerful tusks which double up as twin blades
- Able to use hybrid-form to combine advantages of being a human, and being a mammoth
- Disadvantages:
- Specific to Jack - he's a fishman, and Fishmen are incredibly powerful when fighting underwater. Being a Devil Fruit Consumer takes this away from him and makes him helpless in situations which he's underwater. On the plus side he's a very rare Devil Fruit user who doesn't have to worry about suffocating if he falls into the ocean
Fights:
- (pre-Dressrosa) Nekomamushi and Inurashi, separately, on a 12-hour interval. Two incredibly strong opponents who were able to push him to his limits
- (Post-Dressrosa, pre-Zou) Doflamingo's Marine Escort - not shown, but ended in what we can only assume was Jack's defeat based on how it was reported, and the fact that Jack did not retrieve Doflamingo
- (Post-Zou, pre-WCI) Zunesha - Smashed to bits by the giant elephant
- (pre-Onigashima Wano) Ashura - took a slice to the chest but the battle ended prematurely as Kaido showed up
- (Onigashima) Mink tribe - performed very well in this fight
- (Onigashima) Neko and Inu, both Sulong'd - defeated and forced to recover
- (Onigashima) Inurashi, Sulong'd and base form - defeated with finality
- Sanji would have likely been a good fight
- Vergo would have been a good fight due to both being strong physical fighters
- In a match of raw power I think he'd do well against Queen, but would fail at avoiding plagued bullets
- Any match where raw power comes into play including: Drake, Yamato, Zoro, Jinbei
- Cracker - I think that this would be a solid show of stamina. If Jack ever lands a blow, he wins, but can he deal with the force of Biscuit Warriors long enough that Cracker runs out of energy? He's also a fishman. There's potential he knows how to "fling water", but as we have no evidence of that we must assume he can't.
- Burgess - two brutish warriors going at it. I think this would actually be a good fight
- Katakuri - Advanced COO with insanely strong COA would brutalize Jack. Katakuri wins this one with ease, IMO.
- Marco - The durability and stamina with the regenerative powers of the Phoenix, high speed, claws, and ability to fly would make this a nigh-impossible match for Jack
- Sabo - I believe Sabo's insane attack power combined with his new ability (mera mera no mi) would make this a near impossible fight for Jack
- Kizaru - way too fast for Jack
- Akainu - too much attack power. Jack is durable but not durable enough to withstand magma
Notes: While he's been defeated a lot, it's more a testament to how ballsy he is than anything else. He has no fear of anything that we've seen. He also tends to recover quickly and come back for vengeance. Also worth noting he's only 28, and has accomplished a lot for that age. His love of destruction, strength, and durability have allowed him to confidently fight a wide array of enemies. Most of his defeats could be classified as inconveniences, with his most recent one being fairly final. Overall Jack does well in shows of strength and durability. Any enemy who has a tricky ability such as Law or Hawkins would likely due well against Jack. High speed fighters who also have high attack power and stamina would do well, also. He's not above using cheap tricks to win, and has some at his disposal.
----------------------------------------------
Queen the Plague
Feats:
- Worked along-side Vegapunk, Judge and Caesar Clown where he apparently learned from each one of them (The 'Jack of all Trades, Master of None Scientist' of MADS)
- Decent strategizer - was able to incapacitate Big Mom, then successfully transport her to Onigashima
- Has concocted biological weapons that can wreak havoc and devastation on populations
- Modified body capable of everything from lasers, detachable claws, launching rockets, to launching his own mid-section and more
- Able to replicate the Germa Science to an extent showing off each male child's abilities (including Sanji's own invisibility)
- Advantages:
- As this in an ancient Zoan, Queen has enhanced durability and stamina
- Combines well with his science and body-modifications to give him a versatile fighting style
- Disadvantages:
- Nothing major, but in terms of dinosaurs, the Brachiosaurus is unimpressive and among the Ancient Zoans Queen has been unimpressive in this way, being herbivorous, but lacking the attack power of Sasaki or Jack (since Jack has tusks, at least).
Fights:
- Big Mom (O'Lin) - Queen had to strategize as he was clearly outmatched. He did succeed. If Big Mom had been herself it'd of been an easy win for her.
- Marco (with King) - I got the feeling that Marco was a superior fighter in this match up. One on one this goes to Marco, easily. Queen was more of an annoyance than anything, and Marco was even able to allow Chopper to slap the shit out of Queen
- Sanji - this fight dragged through a lot of chapters and panels and had its ups and downs. Queen's focus on outdoing Judge and overconfidence in himself allowed him to be defeated
- Jack would be a good match up. We don't have much to go off of when comparing the two. Queen tends to rely on technology and body modifications quite a bit. I have a feeling in a brawl, that Jack would do quite well. If there are no rules (a normal pirate battle) then Queen would likely win due to Jack being unable to avoid things such as plague bullets, lasers, etc.
- Jinbei would also be a good match up. They are both bulky fighters. Jinbei is incredibly fast for his size and could potentially counter the plague-bullets.
- Cracker - hard to envision who would win here. On one hand Queen is incredibly durable, and his invisibility could be advantageous in this fight. On the other hand Cracker's biscuits may be too tough for Queen to crack, and the fight could drag on longer than Queen could handle, or just drag on forever due to neither having enough attack power to finish it.
- Drake - I think this would be close. A fellow supernova, captain, and a member of SWORD with an Ancient Zoan (carnivorous) ability should be a good match up for Queen one on one
- Zoro - I don't think Queen could handle Zoro's swordsmanship. In current time Zoro was able to wound Kaido with Enma, and Queen is much less durable than Kaido. I also think Zoro's show of being able to "dodge" plagued bullets would indicate most of Queen's tech is useless. With the ability to slice off appendages and wound the dino, this goes to Zoro easily, IMO.
- Katakuri - I think Katakuri wins hands down. Advanced COO, and his special paramecia with its stickiness would be hard for someone like Queen to content with. Not to mention awakening
- King - the Lunarian wins. His defense, manipulation of fire, ability to fly and all put him above Queen
- Marco - the Phoenix is likely immune to viruses (not proven, but seems logical). He's quick, able to fly, and did well enough in a two on one situation where Queen was involved. I think this goes to Marco. Not quickly, but possibly easily.
- "O'Lin"/Big Mom (but got back up quick enough)
- Sanji - final, and brutal pounding / KO
----------------------------------------------
King the Conflagration
Feats:
- Lunarian, which ruled the world like Gods in a previous era. This grants him unique abilities such as manipulation of fire, and increased defense
- COC User
- Versatile fighter - Uses a sword effectively, but uses his racial ability, devil fruit ability, arms and legs just as effectively. He's a killing machine.
- Repelled the Big Mom Pirates (like Marco)
- Last of his race - survived experimentation - presumabely by Queen, Vegapunk, Judge and Caesar
- Kaido's first mate, and was acknowledged by the brutish Yonko for his strength
- Very confident in his abilities. Saw no threat in the Tobiroppo being able to challenge him, and was initially very difficult for Zoro to deal with
- Fast, agile, durable
- He's never been turned down by a member of the opposite sex
- (Ryu Ryu no Mi, Model: Pteranodon):
- Advantages:
- Durability
- Flight
- Unique attacks that mimic how Pteranodons fight
- Disadvantages:
- Nothing I can think of related to his Devil Fruit
- Advantages:
- Lunarian:
- Advantages:
- Fire manipulation *shown to be near on par with the Mera Mera no Mi
- Increased durability (when manipulating fire)
- Increased speed (when not manipulating fire)
- Advantages:
Fights:
- Sanji (brief, but in King's favor)
- Marco (2v1 with Queen's help. Did not resolve. Likely would have ended in Marco's defeat had it gone on)
- Zoro - defeated by Zoro. Very brutal fight
- Marco - this was never in Marco's favor due to the 2v1 nature. I can't honestly say who'd win here. I suspect Marco would lack the overall attack power to "end" King, but that he could probably go on indefinitely if not having to also battle Queen. Two flying ability users with their own fires, the first mates of Yonko
- Sanji (post-Onigashima) - Sanji's ability to be exposed to flames, enhanced Germa body giving him increased defense and regeneration, and powerful kicks would make this a good fight if it happened post-Onigashima. Sanji is also able to propel himself through the air, which would make the fight more convenient than it was for Zoro
- Katakuri - Hard to say who'd win with the lack of overlap in opponents for the two. Both are "first mates" in their own way
- I think when all things are considered, this is a "top tier Yonko Commander". That said, most non-Yonko would be a decent match up for him, and few enemies would low-diff him.
- Blackbeard - Yami Yami no Mi's gravity would make flying all but useless. The Lunarian flames would give him a better chance than most once caught, though.
- Akainu - I think the Fleet Admiral would outmatch King. He's shown to be able to avoid damage in ways similar to Katakuri, by predicting where he'd be hit. King's fire abilities may make him more durable against a fighter like Akainu, but Akainu is powerful beyond his DF.
- Potentially Law - the Ope Ope no Mi could make the fight difficult for King as Law manipulates the environment. A single awakened attack by Law could spell the end for King
Notes: King almost appears like a double-DF user, being able to dip into his fire manipulation, and pteranodon abilities. Without a ton of data it's hard to compare him directly to existing Yonko Commanders other than to say that he's held his own against Marco, who held his own against Kizaru, who is an Admiral. King places too much confidence in his Lunarian heritage and didn't perceive defeat as a possibility when facing Zoro. He's a well balanced fighter who can do well in most situations. I'd like to believe he could "survive" or escape a Yonko in most situations, and defeat or hold off most fellow Yonko Commanders indefinitely. He low-diffs his fellow Calamities, IMO. His fire manipulation has created attacks that Zoro described to be "like magma." They've also been shown to have long-range capabilities similar to Ace's Hiken. Overall I think King is one of the most well-balanced Yonko Commanders that we've seen in the series. He's the first non-Yonko to really push Zoro to his limits post time-skip, and he's the last known Lunarian. He hails from a race that ruled the world like Gods, and he seems to have mastery over his racial abilities and his Devil Fruit. He can adapt to fighting opponents of different styles whether it be a swordsman, brawler, shinobi, or whatever. His final attack creating a literal fire dragon granted him a much more epic end than his peers.
I'd like to add more when I have more time, as well as an analysis of the admirals that's a bit more objective. In summary I will say:
If we want to rank or create rankings of Yonko Commanders, we need to do so cyclically. There are definitely situations where:
YC A defeats YC B
YC B defeats YC C
YC C defeats YC A.
For instance, let's assume Luffy fought Cracker WITHOUT Nami. Luffy would have lost.
Cracker defeats Luffy
Luffy defeats Katakuri
Katakuri defeats Cracker
It's really hard to fit them to any solid ranking system based on the fact that we typically see them in snapshots of time throughout the series - for instance, Vista fought Hawkeye two years ago. Katakuri was defeated by Luffy weeks ago. Cracker was defeated the day before Katakuri.
Is the Katakuri of two weeks ago weaker than the King of today? We can't really say. We have to analyze what they've done, their quirks / abilities, and with the lack of overlap between the two they're really hard to compare. What we do know is they exist in a level where they aren't likely to be low-diffed by Yonko, but objectively cannot defeat a Yonko.
Is Cracker a "top tier Commander"? He fought Luffy, and nearly defeated him, mere hours before Luffy took on Katakuri. I would argue Katakuri is objectively stronger than Cracker, but that the match-up system is at play here. Katakuri is more well-rounded, so he defeats both.
Has Marco defeated anyone notable? Does the answer to that question make him weak? Does the fact that we've never seen him defeated objectively make him strong? Who knows.
Ace has been called weak on these forums despite fighting with Blackbeard, a now-Yonko and someone even Shanks struggled with. Was Ace ever worthy of being called weak?
TLDR: This isn't DBZ. While "rankings" work for some fighters, they utterly fail with others. At the end of the day Oda makes characters as strong as they need to be in the moment. For example, is Shiryu stronger than King? We don't really know. What we do know is that Shiryu will likely fight Zoro, and Zoro has defeated King. Yonko Commanders have little overlap in their matchups, and apparent vast differences in strength (ranging from "you're really a yonko commander?!" to "spars with WSS" and beyond). Look at comparisons objectively. Cracker isn't a "YC2" - whatever the fuck that means - when you want to compare him to Zoro or something. He's a fighter with a strong ability who pushed gear four Luffy at a time before Luffy had advanced COO / Ryuo and COC. He was as strong as he needed to be at the moment he fought Luffy.
Last edited by a moderator:
