Discussion Your Own Hatsu!

[Master OZ]

Being a conjurer, you know that things are made by someones own aura. To be able to create that much water, You gotta be Meruem. Where have you been, man? I thought you were poisoned or something.

Water is made of very simple materials when compared to chains (iron), scythe (steeled iron), gun, sentient clown. Kurapika´s master says at the beginning that you can´t make something unworldly or overly complex. Looking at this from other angle, if it is simple, it is easier to make. That´s why I think I can handle a lot of water, but obviously not billions, or thousands of litres of water. I think 10 litres per day with no other intensive Nen output and at a fairly fit condition is plausible. So more like ultra rare vintage wine similar output.

Ad side comment, i am not much of a poster. I really try to post things that get others to post and I can sit back and read the ensuing discussions. I used to post on other forums more frequently but I usually turned out to be very fervent (read asinine) poster so that´s how I do now.

As a conjurer, sure, that'd be a stupidly Nen-intensive feat, but if you have a look at what I posted; This
See, if I just made sure my Nen output was absolutely minimal, I'd be able to create a trickle of water. It wouldn't be sweetened or anything, but I'd be able to create pretty decent amounts of water.

The part I didn´t get is how do you get the pressure because in real life water jets, as beastly as they are, are quite big. The second thing I didn´t get is how do you use them (the knuckledusters), long-range or close quarters. The pressure deteriorates very quickly with distance.

 

[Demonspeed]

You can't create water with Conjuration, it's more of a Transmutation technique, like Killua's ability. Conjuration creates an object.

It's a 100% Transmutation technique, it would be impossible to change the taste of the water after this excepted like Killua did to know his affinity. I can only imagine you being able to make sugar water.

 

[Andreasfr]

Oh, I wouldn't be a very long range fighter. I suppose I'd have my flamethrower for that if need be. The water claws however, I'd just use a constant flow of Nen and slash away. With as small as the openings are, and with how much Nen I'd be sending into the tank, it'd come out with enough speed to slice through most stuff.

Had a look at the size of the pump on youtube, and whao.. b-but with enough control of my Nen, and with enough training to maximize output, I should be able to use it as I've stated... I'll just have to train harder than I at first thought.
Pressure might deteriorate quickly with distance, but if all else fails, I will still always have my flamethrower... I'm so lucky to have thought of a back-up strat'.

 

[Ener9y]

Yeah, in Transmutation, you can change the nature of different things depending on how much power and practice you put into it. In Conjuration, you can create different items (No water, fire, electricity etc...). Being a Transmuter, you can change your aura to water just like how Killua done it changing it to electricity; depending on your power off-course. But hey, you could be both.
I wonder if the GI was all made by Nen-users, like everything is made of Nen, the items, characters, magic cards, everything. and all is done by Ging and his friends.

 

[Uriel]

You can actually do in both school the same thing, but they will have different effects.

With Conjuration you will be able to ACTUALLY make water, with Transformation you will make your aura similar to water, with Emission you will probably get bigger amounts and with manipulation you could waterbend. I guess that intensification could allow you to make MORE water going from a little amount.

Think of your techniques not as being able to be done with one school only but how you would prefer to do it.

 

[Master OZ]

You can actually do in both school the same thing, but they will have different effects.

With Conjuration you will be able to ACTUALLY make water, with Transformation you will make your aura similar to water, with Emission you will probably get bigger amounts and with manipulation you could waterbend. I guess that intensification could allow you to make MORE water going from a little amount.

Think of your techniques not as being able to be done with one school only but how you would prefer to do it.

Yes that was the idea. That´s why I felt necessary to mention the level of attainment of other schools. Conjuration to create water. Transmutation to change the properties of water. Enhancer to increase the effects or amount of water. Emission to remote control the water at distance.

Looking back, the drawback would be incredibly long time before the completion of said ability.

 

[Demonspeed]

I still don't see how it would be possible to make water with Conjuration, if it was possible then Transmutation and Conjuration would be the same. Transmutation changes the property of your aura, Conjuration creates something, that thing can appear and disappear at will in space, so even if it was possible to conjure water it would be a definite quantity of water, you would not be able to make more water with your aura or would be very bad at it given the affinities.

Yes that was the idea. That´s why I felt necessary to mention the level of attainment of other schools. Conjuration to create water. Transmutation to change the properties of water. Enhancer to increase the effects or amount of water. Emission to remote control the water at distance.

Looking back, the drawback would be incredibly long time before the completion of said ability.

Not really, it would be too much for your Nen capacity, like Kastro and would end up being inefficient and tiring, everybody is not Kurapika with his Emperor Time. Coupling it with a Hatsu modifying the properties of the aura as you want seem impossible too after using 100% Conjuration for the water(I still believe it is impossible to do that).

 

[Master OZ]

I still don't see how it would be possible to make water with Conjuration, if it was possible then Transmutation and Conjuration would be the same. Transmutation changes the property of your aura, Conjuration creates something, that thing can appear and disappear at will in space, so even if it was possible to conjure water it would be a definite quantity of water, you would not be able to make more water with your aura or would be very bad at it given the affinities.



Not really, it would be too much for your Nen capacity, like Kastro and would end up being inefficient and tiring, everybody is not Kurapika with his Emperor Time. Coupling it with a Hatsu modifying the properties of the aura as you want seem impossible too after using 100% Conjuration for the water(I still believe it is impossible to do that).

In Togashi´s definition they, in a sense, are. Transmuter changes his aura into something (lightning) or change property of his aura (shape it into numbers, warts, there might be more, but we haven´t seen more Transmuter training yet). Conjurer creates something with his aura. Change his aura into something and create something with his aura are actually one and the same thing but different wording. Killua Conjures lightning with his aura or changes his aura into lightning are the same from the process point of view. His lightning is a real lightning, while in Hisoka´s case you can see it is his aura but sticky and elastic. In his training he injects himself with the taser which is reminiscent of Kurapika playing with the chains, licking them etc. But if he was using that taser; e.g. Transmuting taser´s electricity into lightning (problem is, it could be taken as an Enhancer ability), that would have been real Transumuter. Togashi should have defined Transmuting as changing the properties of existing things with his aura (there would be no overlap with Enhancer because Enhancer reinforces or improves already EXISTING properties of an object); as is demonstrated with the Water divination. Water already exists but the taste changes. Even if everything I have just written is false, ask yourself one thing If Killua changes his aura into electricity, why does he need real electricity to recharge himself? Wouldn´t that mean he has some electricity storage out of aura somewhere which would not make him Transmuter at all, but Conjurer?

Ad Kastro comparison; Kastro ran out of memory (which is bull, but whatever) because he was creating a real human with blood, dna, neural pathways, tissue, organs etc. with his Nen. That´s what Hisoka meant by exceedingly difficult. Compared to that water is a much easier thing to Conjure.

One sidenote; it might seem that Transmuters can "Conjure" things continuously, like Machi can create (yet she is a Transmuter) Nen threads continuously (why they exist when detached from her body is a mystery,since it isn´t Emitter ability), she doesn´t make her aura thread like, it is a thread. Similarly, Hisoka can Transmute his aura into gum/rubber continuously. All three also share another common point; Transmuted thing cannot be cut off theiir bodies for a long time, unlike Conjurers, since despite the ability, it still is aura, while Conjurer create a self-sustainable thing (damn that Machi and her threads, how can they sustain themselves long enough for Hisoka to heal up severed arms). But Kurapika (a Conjurer) is seemingly capable of conjuring chains in similar fashion (okay they might not come off his fingers, but you get the drift).

 

[kkck]

It seems I'm a Manipulator, so I guess I'll center my hatsu around that.

Omnipotence (全能のオーラの能力 (オムニポテンス)) - Using my Emission aura (secondary affinity), I create small, but plentiful pellets (from aura). I can then use them for any purpose, offence or defence. I can use them as independent bullets, or fuse them into larger shapes, using my Manipulation. It's similar to the Iron Sand from Naruto.

It seems like that would work better if you were emission though. The main point of the ability would be the emitted nen so your hatsu would not take advantage of the fact that you are primarily a manipulator. To boot if you are talking about shapes your hatsu would require transmutation. It would be pretty basic but if you are a manipulator then you will be very far away from transmutation. Your hatsu works although it would befit an emitter more than a manipulator. Maybe you could use actual iron sand?

---------- Post added at 02:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:11 PM ----------

You can't create water with Conjuration, it's more of a Transmutation technique, like Killua's ability. Conjuration creates an object.

It's a 100% Transmutation technique, it would be impossible to change the taste of the water after this excepted like Killua did to know his affinity. I can only imagine you being able to make sugar water.

I think you could make water although I am not so sure there would be a point to it.... Both are options, the difference would be that transmutation would produce nen that has the characteristics of water and conjuration would produce actual water. I guess that to use the conjured version you would need something to keep it or some conditions for it to do something....

---------- Post added at 02:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:21 PM ----------

I am also not sure on to what extent you could use transmutation to change your conjured water. There is the water test although we have not seen someone actually control what water turns into, it seems a bit random so far.

As far as water being "simple" to create, I am not sure if that makes sense. Water is well known to have some funky physics to it (the article is still pretty basic in that regard) so I am not sure if conjuring water would be that easy or simple. Water is pretty common to us but that is a decent bit distinct from it being simple. Back when kurapira made his chain he talked about visualizing it. I would think doing that with water would be a tad more difficult if we consider water is formless, colorless and odorless....

 

[Demonspeed]

Ad Kastro comparison; Kastro ran out of memory (which is bull, but whatever) because he was creating a real human with blood, dna, neural pathways, tissue, organs etc. with his Nen. That´s what Hisoka meant by exceedingly difficult. Compared to that water is a much easier thing to Conjure.

It was mostly difficult because he was an Enhancer, for a Conjurer it would have been much easier, Cheetu could conjure a mini savanna. Killua is not using real lightning, he transmuted his aura so that it will have electric properties, it works exactly like lightning but it is not lightning created by a natural phenomenon, conjured lightning(if it's possible) would be actual lighting. I am not sure if I explained it well.

I think you could make water although I am not so sure there would be a point to it.... Both are options, the difference would be that transmutation would produce nen that has the characteristics of water and conjuration would produce actual water. I guess that to use the conjured version you would need something to keep it or some conditions for it to do something....

This.

It might be possible but it would be inefficient. By transmuting his aura into water, your aura has water properties and you can create more with your aura but with Conjuration it would be impossible to create more water, they train to create their weapons and then they can make them appear wherever they are. So the Conjurer would only be able to conjure a definite quantity of water(and where would it appear, it would be actual water there, you can't hold water ini your hands) once the weapon conjured it's over, it would be the same water for all his life. Kurapika's aura won't make him create more chains, same for Kite, and Shizuku etc.

Also conjured weapons are not better than normal weapons without conditions.

 

[Master OZ]

I am also not sure on to what extent you could use transmutation to change your conjured water. There is the water test although we have not seen someone actually control what water turns into, it seems a bit random so far.

As far as water being "simple" to create, I am not sure if that makes sense. Water is well known to have some funky physics to it (the article is still pretty basic in that regard) so I am not sure if conjuring water would be that easy or simple. Water is pretty common to us but that is a decent bit distinct from it being simple. Back when Kurapika made his chain he talked about visualizing it. I would think doing that with water would be a tad more difficult if we consider water is formless, colorless and odorless....

I concede the bolded part. Killua had no control over the taste of water, well he didn´t have control at all. The water could have easily changed colour and still be Transmuter. I still think I could overcome this by training though.

Ad water physics; I knew some of those but i was literally baffled at the rest (boiling water into snow!). I imagine that would be somewhat difficult but looking at other conjurers (sentient clown, sentient vacuum cleaner) I still believe that it is an attainable feat. When Kurapika trains to Conjure the chains (from iron or steel I suppose) he basically tricks or beats his subconsciousness into Conjuring it. At the very least I don´t think he studied the physics to Conjure them.

It was mostly difficult because he was an Enhancer, for a Conjurer it would have been much easier, Cheetu could conjure a mini savanna. Killua is not using real lightning, he transmuted his aura so that it will have electric properties, it works exactly like lightning but it is not lightning created by a natural phenomenon, conjured lightning(if it's possible) would be actual lighting. I am not sure if I explained it well.

It might be possible but it would be inefficient. By transmuting his aura into water, your aura has water properties and you can create more with your aura but with Conjuration it would be impossible to create more water, they train to create their weapons and then they can make them appear wherever they are. So the Conjurer would only be able to conjure a definite quantity of water(and where would it appear, it would be actual water there, you can't hold water ini your hands) once the weapon conjured it's over, it would be the same water for all his life. Kurapika's aura won't make him create more chains, same for Kite, and Shizuku etc.

Also conjured weapons are not better than normal weapons without conditions.

Yes, but Hisoka´s comment suggests that conjuring a human would be very difficult even for a skilled Conjurer but this still doesn´t explain how he could not do anything else with his Nen.

Actually you did. Killua basically recreated things with his aura; he changed the looks of his aura to that of a lightning - shape, colour, and then he gave the effect of lightning to his aura (he knew these effects from the long exposure during his assassins training), but two things that can´t be explained as of yet are the need of recharging and the complicated movements of the lightning. Remember that he is Transmuter - it is still his aura so how can that aura move so fast, why can it crook and move like real lightning, why does that Transmuter aura do small discharges if it is under his control (he complains that his "lightning" can´t go on for long). A conjured lightning would understandably have all these properties but Transmuter must willingly do these changes on his own.

Why would that be impossible? The one Conjurer mechanic left unexplained is this; what happens to deconjured items? Are they left in some pocket universe (an INSANE FEAT)? Or are they actually destroyed every single time and Conjurer basically reconjures them each time (which makes more sense to me)? Consider the case that the conjured item, let´s consider Kurapika´s chain, is cut in half for example. We know that it is self sustainable item so it should continue to exist in this reality, but what would Kurapika do? In the first case he would have to undergo the training again to conjure it again (since he trained to conjure that specific realization of chain), in the second case he would shrug it off by conjuring the exact same chain again (since he trained to conjure an idea of a chain that can generally be conjured anytime). If this principle is applied to water, in the first case I would indeed be able to conjure a specific amount and a specific realization of water (very useful for scams), but in the second case I would be able to conjure water, even after somebody drinks it and pees it (ewww) as long as I have aura. As far as water overflowing problem, I can conjure the water over some receptacle, like a bowl for example.

 

[Uriel]

For conjuration makes sense to create a bowl that summons water instead of conjuring the water itself. All the conjurers we know work with solid things, or deal with non-solid trough a solid element (Like Basho). The limit of what you can do with it are quite blurry since you're allowed to materialize your own body into something, like Tsubone.
About the amount...Leol stole an ability that let him conjure TONS of water. Like damn LOT. Even if He didn't control the water, it was a damn good hatsu.

BTW, I don't think that you "destroy" what you conjure when you don't summon things. Knov's Hide and Seek allowed him to create a completely different dimension that exist even when He isn't thinking on it. It's safer to assume that all Nen elements when un-summons goes to a Nen dimension until the moment they're summoned again.

Transmutation users seems to work directly with their aura and not with elements. Or change the body itself, like Zazan and Biscuit. The most ambiguous cases are Feitan and Machi, but they could be using Conjuration skills on their techniques as well: After all Hatsu doesn't limit with the school.

Since water is something you experience all the time, it shouldn't be hard to materialize, so little conjuration ability is actually used. I think Emission is the best for water, since it's closest to Manipulation and could work better to overcome the amount issue.

 

[Master OZ]

For conjuration makes sense to create a bowl that summons water instead of conjuring the water itself. All the conjurers we know work with solid things, or deal with non-solid trough a solid element (Like Basho). The limit of what you can do with it are quite blurry since you're allowed to materialize your own body into something, like Tsubone.
About the amount...Leol stole an ability that let him conjure TONS of water. Like damn LOT. Even if He didn't control the water, it was a damn good hatsu.

BTW, I don't think that you "destroy" what you conjure when you don't summon things. Knov's Hide and Seek allowed him to create a completely different dimension that exist even when He isn't thinking on it. It's safer to assume that all Nen elements when un-summons goes to a Nen dimension until the moment they're summoned again.

Transmutation users seems to work directly with their aura and not with elements. Or change the body itself, like Zazan and Biscuit. The most ambiguous cases are Feitan and Machi, but they could be using Conjuration skills on their techniques as well: After all Hatsu doesn't limit with the school.

Since water is something you experience all the time, it shouldn't be hard to materialize, so little conjuration ability is actually used. I think Emission is the best for water, since it's closest to Manipulation and could work better to overcome the amount issue.

That is actually an incredible idea, thank you.

i was actually more inclined to believe this was the case, because then Conjurers if they were destroying and reconjuring their items every time, they would have to spend their aura again and again, which would be fatal for combat. Although my ability would have to work in such way, because creating only specific instance of water would be very limiting.

Well, that didn´t occur to me. You see, when these are listed, they are usually sorted by one school and that threw me off. It would have been much more useful to say that e.g. Machi´s threads are Transmutation mixed with Conjuration and not just by the "dominant" school.

The amount would be solely influenced by Conjuring, or Enhancing (Conjure a small amount of desired water with desired effects and Enhancing the amount like in the water divination test with Enhancer Ren), since Emission influences the control of aura after detachment from the original body. Manipulation should be able to control conjured item, in our case the water.

 

[Demonspeed]

For conjuration makes sense to create a bowl that summons water instead of conjuring the water itself. All the conjurers we know work with solid things, or deal with non-solid trough a solid element (Like Basho). The limit of what you can do with it are quite blurry since you're allowed to materialize your own body into something, like Tsubone.
About the amount...Leol stole an ability that let him conjure TONS of water. Like damn LOT. Even if He didn't control the water, it was a damn good hatsu.

BTW, I don't think that you "destroy" what you conjure when you don't summon things. Knov's Hide and Seek allowed him to create a completely different dimension that exist even when He isn't thinking on it. It's safer to assume that all Nen elements when un-summons goes to a Nen dimension until the moment they're summoned again.

Right but it is usable only on rainy days.Elemental powers with Conjuration is reall not very useful, Transmutation is far better for this.

 

[Uriel]

Well, we're three users and we think that three completely different schools are suited better for the same technique xD
I stand by the sort of vase for the water then if it's conjuring and Transmutation if you want to make a waterbend technique. I think the limitations of both techniques are obvious and efficient. Transmutation would work better since it's closer to both Enhance and Conjure and can combine both.

And you could use the vase idea even as a Transmuter , because it's not something that complicate to imagine. Hmmm, now that I think about it, Transmutation IS the best course.

 

[kkck]

I am not sure if transformation is the ideal one here. Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the limit of the water you could transmute at a time the size of your ren? More so, if the water separates from you then you would need emission. In that regard transmutation would be rather inconvenient for the water, you need conjuration for efficiency's sake.

 

[tupadre97]

You can't create water with Conjuration, it's more of a Transmutation technique, like Killua's ability. Conjuration creates an object.

It's a 100% Transmutation technique, it would be impossible to change the taste of the water after this excepted like Killua did to know his affinity. I can only imagine you being able to make sugar water.

What do you mean you cant make water? Of course you can, thats what leol did with that one guys ability. There is no rule that says you cant conjure liquids nor would it evn be that hard to make water. You drink it every day of your life hell you even made up of mostly water. The guys ability is ok.

Yes that was the idea. That´s why I felt necessary to mention the level of attainment of other schools. Conjuration to create water. Transmutation to change the properties of water. Enhancer to increase the effects or amount of water. Emission to remote control the water at distance.

Looking back, the drawback would be incredibly long time before the completion of said ability.

Well yeah it would for the enhancment, emission, and manipulation stuff but conjuring a bowl of water and changing it with transmutation would be incredibly easy for any conjurer worth his salt.

Right but it is usable only on rainy days.Elemental powers with Conjuration is reall not very useful, Transmutation is far better for this.

Conjuring elements may not be useful for combat but his abilitynisnt really a combat ability, its mainly for him being a "water dealer" that does different things with water thru transmutation to use or give to ppl. All of the other combat applications for it would be much mire difficult however since he is only a conjurer but its still not a bad ability.

 

[MrBird]

Hi guys, I'm new here. Been reading the forum for a while, and now finally decided to make an account.
Let's get started.

Name: Root of Evilness (极恶根源)
Type: Conjuration/Specialist
Description: When activated, an ability is conjured to best fulfill a task based on my knowledge, condition (physical and psychological), environment, preference and the level of frustration.
Condition: I can only activate the ability when I feel a situation, person, or object is frustrating and problematic.

I have been thinking about nen abilities for almost 2 years, and I kept having new ideas every time after I made an ability, so this is the generalized one to best fulfill my personality. I like to gain knowledge over the things that I find interesting (that can be anything, from arts to science). One of the reason I love to do that is because those knowledge might end up helping me when I am facing an unexpected situation or problem. This has proven to be true, and I enjoy it a lot. Also, since I always like create a nen ability when I'm free, so I think it is logical to have an ability like this, since my preference is included. Also, I like to have things that is kinda like "jack of all trade, master of none", similar to the red mage in FF.

As a side note, the name of the ability, Root of Evilness, is the term I use for frustrating, problematic, annoying things.

I think it is easier to explain the ability if someone asks question

 

[heehoo10]

My thoughts on this whole water issue
I dont have a problem with the conjuration of water, it is already proven possible (leol), it just needs a condition
an infinite amount of water that lasts an infinite amount of time is too powerful
Water is only 'simpler' than chains and vacuums because a clear complete mental image already exists in the user's mind, this doesn't mean you can conjure more
you can conjure more simply because the same volume of water and iron or whatever has less mass of water (less total conjured subatomic particles)

I am under the impression that materialized nen objects cannot exist 'forver,' like Kortopi's 24 hr limit, or if a conjurer were to get knocked out/die, the nen object should disappear (after any death nen grudges are enacted). I dont know if conjured stuff also dematerializes when the user goes to sleep, or stops actively willing the nen. So drinking water that will dematerialize seems risky to me

Say you sell your water like you wanted to and everyone is drinking that, and for some reason your ability gets canceled (u die/get knocked out/your nen gets stolen/your nen gets blocked/you lose your nen/etc.), all of this h2o dematerializes and everyone who has bought from you instantly dehydrates and dies or is in a lot of danger
From a business standpoint this is probably bad and very risky (lawsuits/loss of consumer/loss of company credibility)
Based on the condition for your ability (which is much needed) whether it be a certain volume/day, certain amount of time of existence, or another misc. condition, it will limit and probably end your business plan

A while ago, I was thinking about something like this, say a conjured water molecule was in the body, and some type of reaction occurs, can the molecule even undergo a reaction? say it can and a hydrolysis rxn occurs and the conjured h's and o are split up and in molecules with other real atoms, say the conjurer dematerializes the ability and these atoms disappear, then what happens, the molecules lacking whatever atom disappeared now is in a highly reactive state or something and bad things happen, idk, im thinking about this too much lol, its probably that conjured molecules cannot react as normal real molecules, which would mean that drinking your water would accomplish nothing, you could make it a commodity with the taste transmution i guess, but why not just buy the normal drink lol

---------- Post added at 07:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:16 PM ----------

Also
Hatsu: Gender Bender
Nen: Manipulation
Description: You have control of someone's gender
The condition is met you have to strike with an nen imbued punch/kick/hit/poke/etc. to the head, throat, both breats, stomach, and crotch
When condition is met, user is able to change the victim's gender once (does not have to be male/female, can be half n half, or whatever)

This could be used in a fight with a girl to give them balls and then kick them there, or in a fight with a guy, use the ability to mess with their psyche

 

[kkck]

Re: Hunter x Hunter Chapter 347 Discussion/ 348 Predictions

About leol's water, was he really conjuring it? Because just as he died his ability disappeared but not the water... If his ability disappeared then conjured water should have disappeared too. I doubt the water was the sort of nen that sticks, it didn't seem to do that at all. Perhaps the water simply being controlled by the conjured items? It had some limitations that could have aided with that IIRC.