Discussion Zahard's Princesses are Much Stronger Than Corps Commanders

[Cinera]

Disclaimer
It should go without saying, but I'm speaking only about the Ranker Princesses.

And for the purposes of this essay, unless otherwise specified, I'm talking about the median Princess (so not the likes of Adori or Enne).

I know many will mention Yuri Zahard as a counterexample, but Yuri is an exceptionally young Princess (she's not even a thousand years old yet), so I think she may well be below the median for Princesses (at least her strength as shown in Season 2, her potential is above average).



Introduction
In Season 3 Episode 95's Blog Post, we got a rare comment on the general story from SIU.

I'll just list the most interesting part:

"This Nest Arc is... I think of this arc as... one where it progresses a bit more bit by bit for the sake of the conflict with the main forces...

Each wall has different enemies and different forces at play, Baam needs to level up quicker, and as the person that has to make that progression happen, this arc hurts my head, as well as make things difficult for my mentally and physically in a lot of ways.

However, if I don't do this, I do wonder if I will be able to cover the 10 Families or the Princesses of Zahard... so this is a difficult question."

Source

So SIU thinks that he needs to power up Baam as much as he did (first Dark Change then later absorbing White's power and now something else in the Frozen Waterfall) in order to cover the stories of the 10 Families and the Zahard Princesses.


Baam's Power Ups
Dark Baam
Dark Change Baam was by Prime White's admission stronger than him:

Season 3 Episode 92

...I've got to admit.

That guy now...

...Is stronger than me.

Source

Considering White's fight with Kallavan and SIU's comment that both of them were "fantastically powerful", Dark Baam must have been at the very least Corps Commander level, and he may have been significantly stronger.


Crown Baam
After absorbing White's power, Baam further went through a "big change":

White even described attaining the Crown as attaining "great strength":

This is a power that could not be reached without the bloodshed. This crown is symbol given to the monarch that's stepping over the dead bodies.

And im sure the same goes for you.

I'd love to see you wear this same crown, thirsty for power.

I want to see you gain that great strength, to get corrupted by it.

So Crown Baam is in all likelihood considerably stronger than the Corps Commanders.


Even Further Beyond
It seems as if Baam is now about to get yet another power up through whatever was calling out to him in the Frozen Waterfall.

So he may attain a level where he's vastly stronger than Corps Commanders.


Interlude
And SIU has said that he needs to power up Baam this much in order to cover the stories of the 10 Families and Zahard Princesses.


The Ten Families
Even one of the lowest ranked Families (the Lo Po Bia) has three people that may be comparable to the Infernal Evankhell (the Top 3 Branch Leaders). So they should at least be comparable to the Corps Commanders and may even be significantly stronfer

Above the strongest Branch Leaders are two people that stand on a completely different level:

Those two deputies of the Family Leader are probably considerably or vastly stronger than the Corps Commanders. They posses a power that is unattainable of the strongest Branch Leaders.

There's also of course the Family Leader, but he's a God, so I'll leave him out for now.

People like Yasratcha and Papa Baylord were mere pets of the Family Head (Yasratcha is a Corps Commander). Excluding the two deputies of the Family Leader there may be other members of the Main Family that are even stronger than Yasratcha.



The Zahard Princesses
SIU's recent comment is honestly just one of many statements that imply that the Zahard Princesses are above the Corps Commanders. I'll cover the others in more detail in a later post, but there are just a few in particular that I want to highlight.


The Might of the Zahard Family
In her infamous speech about the factions of the Tower, Maschenny completely left out the Zahard Army and its Corps Commanders, instead opting to mention "King Zahard and his Princesses":

The Corps Commanders were left out for the simple reason that true strength of the Zahard Family lies in the Zahard Princesses.

Furthermore, considering that Maschenny said "even King Zahard and his Princesses", the Zahard Family may well be the strongest of these factions (as they should be, Zahard is King for a reason).


The "Ultimate Species"
The Princesses of Zahard are the "ultimate species" in the Tower:

Top 15 High Rankers Character Profiles: #3 Zahard

Zahard's daughters, who are invested with his powers are all categorized as the 'Ultimate species'.

Source


The "Central Power" of the Great Families
And of course, the Princesses from the Great Families are the most talented members of those Families and will become the "central power" of the Family in the future:
Season 2 Chapter 105 Blog Post

A Princess who is a direct descendent of one of the 10 House Heads is especially influential and powerful.

If a Princess is from one of the 10 Families, she will become the central power of that Family in the future

Source

Of course, people try to cope by claiming that this is just strictly talking about influence (ignoring that SIU said that they were especially powerful in addition to their influence), but it is simply silly cope.

In fact, Ha Yuri Zahard who is not even a child of the Family Leader was explicitly said to be the "most talented member" of the Ha Family:

Considering that the strongest members of the Great Families are themselves far beyond the Corps Commanders it goes without saying that mature Princesses of the Great Families will be that much stronger.


Maschenny's Declaration
Maschenny also declared to the Baam who had just defeated CC tier Prime White and his allies that he was too weak to side with anyone:

There have been all sorts of cope over this statement, but they are once again just cope, so I'm not going to bother addressing them here.



Some Speculations on the Political Implications
SIU initially said that there are 28 Princesses with 8 of them missing:

GoDai's Translations: People and Groups (2) - Zahard and the 10 Families

There are 28 Princesses of Jahad. It is said that 8 are missing.

Source


He's introduced more Regular Princesses since then, but not any Rankers.

Of the original 28, if we exclude the 8 missing Princesses, we have 20.

Maria, Endorsi and Repellista haven't climbed the Tower yet, so they can also be excluded. This will leave us with 17 Princesses.

Enne is sealed (it's unknown if Garam is counted among the missing Princesses), and Yuri is apparently imprisoned so we have 14 - 16 active Ranker Princesses.

This group makes up the true might of the Zahard Family.

As a unit, they should be much stronger than any of the Great Families (excluding the Family Leader). This is based on Maschenny's comment of "even King Zahard and his Princesses". She placed the Zahard Family on a higher pedestal than all the other factions.

Even without Maschenny's statement, Zahard is King over the entire Tower, so the faction that he heads should be the strongest.


The strongest Family (the Arie) have 10 - 11 Floors in their territory (one was given to Baek Ryun), and they also compete with the Khun Family for control of Floors 80 - 90. If they own half of those Floors on average, they could have 15 - 17 Rulers. Considering that Arie Hon also seems to have two deputies of his own, it's not actually a stretch to imagine that the Arie Family has around 20 people that are Floor Ruler level or above (recall that a Floor Ruler is a force that is comparable to Evankhell).

With only 14 active Princesses, and being unable to rely on one of their strongest members (Hagipherione) in a confrontation with the Arie, the Zahard Family should still be considerably stronger than the Arie Family.


Thus, the Princesses would need to be considerably stronger than the Arie's Rulers (and their other elites).



Conclusions
All things considered, it seems to be pretty clear from SIU that the Princesses stand on another level entirely from the Corps Commanders.

SIU is taking Baam to a level far beyond Corps Commanders, and he said that all of these power ups are necessary in order to cover the 10 Families and Zahard Princesses.

I'm not sure whether the median Princess is considerably stronger than Corps Commanders or merely significantly so (Adori, Hagipherione and Co seem to be vastly stronger than CCs, so the Princesses may just be very top heavy). However, considering how often SIU hypes Princesses in general and that a team of 4 Princesses (rumours notwithstanding) is credited with subduing Enne, it may be the case that the average level of the Zahard Princesses are just that high.

Spoiler: Tags

@Anzere1stclass, @O_n_Sly, @Vali x lucifer, @Demonspeed, @kkck, @paulbee, @Mizaistorm, @Sakashi, @Fiodor Pavlovich K, @PGT, @AdityaG, @Shadowlord123, @hblock, @Jammin, @Turtle hunter, @Pro Factor, @King Dryst, @Orbs2op, @sazon, @Yhamir ♤♧, @Jubei_Kibagami, @zoradante1, @TheMoa, @Fish009, @Huo Yuhao, @kkck, @adonisp13, @shaheer, @Kunrin, @Reinhard_Lohengramm, @Aliblack, @Literal Potato, @Zanza, @AshDVanguard, @TsukuyomiKun, @lazybum, @AM21, @Epic_Rider, @Jyu viole grace, @Jacinto Pinto, @salo14419.

 

[hblock]

Good argumentation but you didn't bring nor elaborate the opposite thesis nearly enough.

Of course, people try to cope by claiming that this is just strictly talking about influence (ignoring that SIU said that they were especially powerful in addition to their influence), but it is simply silly cope.

In fact, Ha Yuri Zahard who is not even a child of the Family Leader was explicitly said to be the "most talented member" of the Ha Family:

You're confusing lineage and DNA inheritence. While great grand-children tend to be weaker than their parents and grand-parents, there're always edge cases who escape the rule and Yuri is one of them. Khun said that Yuri "strongly" inherited Yurin's power and personnality.

In contrast, since descendents like Elaine can become Jahad princesses themselves, then there're obvious bottomless, massive gaps among princesses strengthwise. As we know, despite building her power for a thousand years in the name hunt station, Elaine was at best comparable to Endorsi back then. The same Endorsi, with Bong Bong, was a cannon fodder material compared to Data Asencio or Icardi based on their respective feats.
This fact has two implications :
-Asencio can beat a fuckton of a thousand-year growth Elaines at the same time, yet we don't know the upper level of the selected candidates. In fact, there's a no small chance that individuals with much more potential than Asencio happen to be selected to become a princess.
-Princesses of Endorsi's level are a joke in front of DDs like Asencio or Icardi in terms of power and potential.

From another perspective, we know that each GF has less than 10 HRs within the top 100 range, barely 20 or so within the top 300. Considering the empire is tens of thousands years old, we can consider a top 100 HR (or someone with the corps commander potentiality) as an once in a "several millena" genius in a GF.

If we take into perspective several factors impacting a princess selection such as :
-political interference (selecting from a different GF each time, sometimes outside the 10 GFs,...).
-political strifes (like when Maria was chosen while AA's sister was more fit to become a princess).
-Periodicity (a princess is chosen once every hundreds years when folks with corps commande potentiality only appear once in several millena in a GF).
-Exclusion of talented males.
-Exclusion of all talented individuals who are already regulars or Rankers.
Then, it's pretty much obvious that after so much filtering, finding someone who might become a top 300 HR after living for an eternity is extremely difficult.

Now, does Jahad's blood injection boosts to the point of making someone with a mere average HR potentiality (at best) into an individual who stands on a whole another level compared to low level top 100 HRs or corps commanders ? That's very debatable but considering Endorsi's showings in the hidden floor arc, this is very unlikely and it'd make sens for Jahad blood alone not to boost someone to become like a fuckton of tiers stronger than he was before the injection.
Lilial and Shilial's performances in the name hunt station arc are also incredibly underwhelming for princesses from the 10 GFs. If they were really serious in their fight, it'd imply that Data Mas' without Redan is a fuckton of tiers above them. In facto, even Data Asencio, who isn't a princess, is a challenge who showed far better feats in the hidden floor.

The Princesses of Zahard are the "ultimate species" in the Tower:

Yes, the princess is the strongest "lineage" but nothing more, what you're comparing them to are edge cases or should I say outliers (corps commanders) who defy the rule.
As in, Asencio, Icardi, etc are shown to be much stronger than princesses like Endorsi, including the physical department based on the data floor feats.

The "Central Power" of the Great Families
And of course, the Princesses from the Great Families are the most talented members of those Families and will become the "central power" of the Family in the future:
Season 2 Chapter 105 Blog Post
Source

You didn't take context into consideration, the statement you're refering to comes from Season 2, chapter 105 blogpost. At this point, SIU's plans only included 3 princesses from the 10 GFs, with only one of them belonging to the direct line.
From the same blogpost :
"Of course, they're also just that rare, and there is only one single Princess who is a direct lineal descendent of one of the 10 House Heads. Even if we count just the number of Princesses from one of the 10 Families,there are about 3 of them. "

However we know that this fact was retconned later :

Spoiler

Q: You had said that the number of princesses who are affiliated with the 10 houses are only 3, but now it has become 5. Can you explain what have happened?

• A: Yep the number had increased due to the expansion of the storyline

With the plot's expansion, the number of princesses increased and the apparition of far less talented princesses is in no way far-fetched assumption.

 

[lazybum]

Power is everything in TOG, so plot wise, Princess arc being a later arc, I would say Princess like Maschenny and Hagipherione should be stronger than CC like Kallavan & Yasratcha. But I'm unsure if other CCs are on another level then these two. We know there are at least (only?) 5 divisions, so 3 other CC could be either of comparable level than what Kallavan & Yasratcha has shown, or stronger.

 

[Cinera]

Power is everything in TOG, so plot wise, Princess arc being a later arc, I would say Princess like Maschenny and Hagipherione should be stronger than CC like Kallavan & Yasratcha. But I'm unsure if other CCs are on another level then these two. We know there are at least (only?) 5 divisions, so 3 other CC could be either of comparable level than what Kallavan & Yasratcha has shown, or stronger.

Even the Top 3 Corps Commanders must bow before and are subordinate to the 13 Months Princesses, so I don't think it matters.

Maschenny is in charge of an operation involving two Corps Commanders and one former Corps Commander.

Her superior authority to the Corps Commanders will apply even to the highest ranked Corps Commanders.


The highest ranked Corps Commanders were also not enough for Maschenny to mention the "Zahard Army" or "the Corps Commanders of the Zahard Army" in her speech.

She only mentioned "even King Zahard and his Princesses".

 

[kkck]

I don't think we have any information to confirm or deny where the ranker princesses stand compared to corp commanders. Let alone the fact that we have seen a mere 3 corp commanders (kallavan, lyborick, yaratcha). We don't know who the rest are or how many more there are (I am of the idea that 11-13 makes sense though). Hype wise I think it's pretty clear that adori is on another league to almost everyone in the story. Hagipherione is an arie princess that beat hon's test... That's a straight up BS feat. It's easy to argue the likes of them tower over corp commanders. Things aren't quite as clear with mascheny and yuri though. On mascheny's and yuri's end feats are either murky or too little to help us compare them to corp commanders. Mascheny fought jinsung but she only made the point that she tried once and even that was without whichever version of the lightning pill she handles today. Yuri's feats basically amount to taking karaka to school which is not really all that much.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Let's talk about the tags in spoilers for a second. I don't think I'm getting notifications for the tag when you wrap it in spoilers. Is it only me?

It would be hilarious if your bat-signal hasn't been working all this time. I just stumbled on this thread, no alert at all. Same as the other threads now that I think of it.

And now I have to read another fucking book of yours. Some Christmas break this is turning out to be. Y U no Mas wrapped in a bow instead?

Spoiler: will this work?

@Cinera

 

[Cinera]

Let's talk about the tags in spoilers for a second. I don't think I'm getting notifications for the tag when you wrap it in spoilers. Is it only me?

Spoiler: will this work?

@Cinera

I did get an alert here. It could be that I botched the tagging process (I copied the tag list from somewhere). Though if I had to guess, I'm guessing there's some limit on how many people can be mentioned in a post or something.

@Demonspeed: can you please clarify?

Y U no Mas wrapped in a bow instead?

Not a bow, but do any of these work?

Spoiler

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Try tagging just me in spoilers again. I'm curious. Reply-curious.