Team Zeref vs Crime Sorciere

Demon Hunter · Oct 30, 2019

@Jko

Jko · Oct 30, 2019

Jean Grey said:
@Jko

The same guy while enhanced couldn't oneshot Happy...

Vs.

This

Dunno why you're trashing Zeref when he took a way stronger attack to the face and wasn't KOed unlike Jellal who was KOed by a weaker attack than Happy tanked

Demon Hunter · Oct 30, 2019

Jko said:
The same guy while enhanced couldn't oneshot Happy...

Vs.

This

Dunno why you're trashing Zeref when he took a way stronger attack to the face and wasn't KOed unlike Jellal who was KOed by a weaker attack than Happy tanked

Jko · Oct 30, 2019

Jean Grey said:

atlantisreturns · Nov 1, 2019

Hate Zeref all you want but he destroys.

He was holding back the entire fight with Natsu without using magic , and he has proven that he can oneshot FDK Natsu anytime he wants. ( For reference , nobody in CS can ONESHOT Natsu , not even Jellal ) And it was confirmed that he's above Natsu's Dragon Force and below the dragons like Igneel.

He has a huge MP ,given he could enchant someone like Irene into a human casually , and this is further confirmed by Irene , that he can end the war anytime he wants , as well as Acnologia ( the strongest person in the verse ) , who doesn't praise anybody just like that.

Irene wanted Zeref himself to use Fairy Heart , because he's stronger than her. She didn't walk into Fairy Tail , take FH and fight Acnologia himself. She went to Zeref for it. Even though she wanted the war to end quickly.

He tanked 5 attacks from Igneel Natsu , for reference , Serena got oneshotted by an attack of this tier and Jellal got oneshotted by an attack which Happy tanked lol.

And for some reason everyone is shitting on him saying Natsu could fight on par with him when it was clearly shown a few panels later that if he uses magic Natsu gets oneshotted immediately. FDK Natsu and Zeref aren't in the same tier , if you have read the fight you will know it.

Furthermore , after all the Alvarez arc was over , the author has said Touka to be equal to ZEREF , for those people who didn't understand the power scaling of the last arc. So much that the author himself had to make new characters to explain the power scaling of FT lol.

Axiomus · Nov 1, 2019

Zeref wins because nobody here has the attack power that surpasses Igneel-powered Natsu, so they can't beat him. But....

atlantisreturns said:
He was holding back the entire fight with Natsu without using magic , and he has proven that he can oneshot FDK Natsu anytime he wants. ( For reference , nobody in CS can ONESHOT Natsu , not even Jellal ) And it was confirmed that he's above Natsu's Dragon Force and below the dragons like Igneel.

....Where are you getting the idea that Zeref didn't use magic when he fought Natsu? Zeref uses his black magic to fight just like Natsu uses his flames to fight.

Seven777 · Nov 1, 2019

Axiomus said:
Zeref wins because nobody here has the attack power that surpasses Igneel-powered Natsu, so they can't beat him. But....

....Where are you getting the idea that Zeref didn't use magic when he fought Natsu? Zeref uses his black magic to fight just like Natsu uses his flames to fight.

I'd say they can spam enough attacks that could add up to that level of damage, especially if Meredy enhances their combined power with Maguilty Link, or channels their combined power into Jellal for Altaris and Sema and such whenever there's an opening. As hype as IgNatsu was, he wasn't drastically more impressive than Base Natsu, other than actually being able to kill Zeref of course.

atlantisreturns · Nov 1, 2019

Axiomus said:
Zeref wins because nobody here has the attack power that surpasses Igneel-powered Natsu, so they can't beat him. But....

....Where are you getting the idea that Zeref didn't use magic when he fought Natsu? Zeref uses his black magic to fight just like Natsu uses his flames to fight.

As I said earlier , minimal amounts of magic. May be I said "no magic" , but okay , change it to minimal. Only punching. He didn't do something like he did at the end and immobilized Natsu. He didn't do what he did to Makarov. He didn't use time stop , nor did he use Law , or the death orbs , or the kind of blast he used against Larcade or Hades , or demon summoning , or abused his teleportation , or his spatial magic , or the bullet magic he used to blow a hole into END , or the word magic he used to write the books and create powerful demons. And we know he's capable of powerful spells from how he casually enchanted someone powerful like Irene , a dragon , into a human. Also from Irene indirectly stating he's stronger than her and statements from Acnologia.

This is what I call a hard nerf or fooling around. And we know he's fooling around from Irene and Zeref himself as well. Not only that , the author says Touka is equal to Zeref even after Alvarez was over lol. Battles like Ignia vs FH Zeref are debatable , but there's no way Zeref loses this one , even in base form he's way stronger than these guys.

Axiomus · Nov 1, 2019

atlantisreturns said:
As I said earlier , minimal amounts of magic. May be I said "no magic" , but okay , change it to minimal. Only punching. He didn't do something like he did at the end and immobilized Natsu. He didn't do what he did to Makarov. He didn't use time stop , nor did he use Law , or the death orbs , or the kind of blast he used against Larcade or Hades , or demon summoning , or abused his teleportation , or his spatial magic , or the bullet magic he used to blow a hole into END , or the word magic he used to write the books and create powerful demons. And we know he's capable of powerful spells from how he casually enchanted someone powerful like Irene , a dragon , into a human. Also from Irene indirectly stating he's stronger than her and statements from Acnologia.

This is what I call a hard nerf or fooling around. And we know he's fooling around from Irene and Zeref himself as well. Not only that , the author says Touka is equal to Zeref even after Alvarez was over lol. Battles like Ignia vs FH Zeref are debatable , but there's no way Zeref loses this one , even in base form he's way stronger than these guys.

I don't contest that Zeref would beat Crime Sorcerer. I'm simply confused on why you think Zeref didn't use magic. Sure, Zeref didn't use all the different types of magic he could have. But he used as much of his black magic as Natsu was using fire. His fighting style was basically the same as Natsu's, only replace fire with whatever that black stuff.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 1, 2019, Original Post Date: Nov 1, 2019 ---

Seven777 said:
I'd say they can spam enough attacks that could add up to that level of damage, especially if Meredy enhances their combined power with Maguilty Link, or channels their combined power into Jellal for Altaris and Sema and such whenever there's an opening. As hype as IgNatsu was, he wasn't drastically more impressive than Base Natsu, other than actually being able to kill Zeref of course.

I put the FDK mode punch as basically on the same level as one of Igneel's roars, which would be a match for one of Acnologia's roars. Maybe if Meredy linked up with all the mages of Fiore, they could do it, but Crime Sorceror on their own probably isn't matching that level of power.

Seven777 · Nov 1, 2019

Axiomus said:
I don't contest that Zeref would beat Crime Sorcerer. I'm simply confused on why you think Zeref didn't use magic. Sure, Zeref didn't use all the different types of magic he could have. But he used as much of his black magic as Natsu was using fire. His fighting style was basically the same as Natsu's, only replace fire with whatever that black stuff.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 1, 2019, Original Post Date: Nov 1, 2019 ---

I put the FDK mode punch as basically on the same level as one of Igneel's roars, which would be a match for one of Acnologia's roars. Maybe if Meredy linked up with all the mages of Fiore, they could do it, but Crime Sorceror on their own probably isn't matching that level of power.

Thats where we differ then, I don't think Igneel had that much strength left when he died, he was exhausted, I think at most Igneel had one last attack in him. I'd put all the power IgNatsu used in that battle as equivalent to one of Igneel's roars.

The magic of all the mages in Fiore is superior to Super Acnologia, so I think thats vastly overestimating what it would take to beat Zeref. Power like that would oneshot Igneel himself imo.
As powerful as Igneel and Acnologia are, Jellal alone has the raw power to block a casual attack from Acno, and knock him on his ass as a bonus. Add all the power of Crime Sorciere to that and I'd say that they'd accumulate damage equal to a roar from Igneel. Dragon Force Natsu alone is already at that level imo.

Axiomus · Nov 1, 2019

Seven777 said:
Thats where we differ then, I don't think Igneel had that much strength left when he died, he was exhausted, I think at most Igneel had one last attack in him. I'd put all the power IgNatsu used in that battle as equivalent to one of Igneel's roars.

The magic of all the mages in Fiore is superior to Super Acnologia, so I think thats vastly overestimating what it would take to beat Zeref. Power like that would oneshot Igneel himself imo.
As powerful as Igneel and Acnologia are, Jellal alone has the raw power to block a casual attack from Acno, and knock him on his ass as a bonus. Add all the power of Crime Sorciere to that and I'd say that they'd accumulate damage equal to a roar from Igneel. Dragon Force Natsu alone is already at that level imo.

Meredy chained all the power of all the mages on Ishgar, not just Fiore, but I get your drift. I just don't think Crime Sorciere alone would be enough to match Igneel's power. Remember, Zeref was still standing after that attack. So Crime Sorcerer has to muster more than that level of power into their attacks to beat Zeref.

Jellal blocked an attack from human Acnologia. When Acnologia started to use the same type of attack in his dragon form, and Jellal started panicking. So I don't think Jellal was going to block that. I do think that Jellal could block any attack that Zeref throws at him though, I just don't think Crime Sorcerer has enough firepower to put down Zeref.

Seven777 · Nov 1, 2019

Axiomus said:
Meredy chained all the power of all the mages on Ishgar, not just Fiore, but I get your drift. I just don't think Crime Sorciere alone would be enough to match Igneel's power. Remember, Zeref was still standing after that attack. So Crime Sorcerer has to muster more than that level of power into their attacks to beat Zeref.

Jellal blocked an attack from human Acnologia. When Acnologia started to use the same type of attack in his dragon form, and Jellal started panicking. So I don't think Jellal was going to block that. I do think that Jellal could block any attack that Zeref throws at him though, I just don't think Crime Sorcerer has enough firepower to put down Zeref.

True, but like I said I consider the whole of IgNatsu's power equivalent to one of Igneel's roar, that includes what Happy prevented him from using, so the fact that Zeref was still standing by the end doesn't make a whole lot of difference to me.

You're right of course, I'm not saying Jellal could block a full dragon Acno roar, but I mean it's not like Jellal's shield is his best shit, it seems almost as casual as Acno's attack. Toss a Sema at Zeref empowered by Maguilty Sense and I think that would do the job.
I think DF Natsu is capable of matching the strength of Igneel's offense for a single attack, and I think Jellal, enhanced by Maguilty Sense would be able to do the same. I don't have DF Natsu above Crime Sorciere combined.

atlantisreturns · Nov 1, 2019

Seven777 said:
You're right of course, I'm not saying Jellal could block a full dragon Acno roar, but I mean it's not like Jellal's shield is his best shit, it seems almost as casual as Acno's attack. Toss a Sema at Zeref empowered by Maguilty Sense and I think that would do the job.
I think DF Natsu is capable of matching the strength of Igneel's offense for a single attack, and I think Jellal, enhanced by Maguilty Sense would be able to do the same. I don't have DF Natsu above Crime Sorciere combined.

Not really , you are overestimating Jellal here. Remember even Irene got overwhelmed and was like woah at one of Acnologia's casual attacks. The same Irene whose MP was on par with August , who defeated the Crime Sorciere effortlessly. Even not considering Jellal's feat of defending against Acnologia as an outlier ( because it's nowhere consistent with his performance before ) , he would have required to put full power into it because even Irene got overwhelmed by one casual attack.

Dragon Force Natsu wrestled with Mercuphobia and defeated Animus powered up with Dragon Cry . I really don't think DF Natsu would lose to Crime Sorciere. Especially since they got destroyed by August. Regular FDK Natsu is already not too much behind Jellal , and in fact in durability Natsu is better than Jellal. DF Natsu being less powerful than CS when August stomped all of them seems like a very huge stretch.

Demon Hunter · Nov 1, 2019

it doesn't matter what he used.

he LOST.

plain and simple.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 1, 2019, Original Post Date: Nov 1, 2019 ---

as for Law, Zeref has a Curse of Contradiction.

he might one shot himself and his entire Alvarez army with it.

Seven777 · Nov 1, 2019

atlantisreturns said:
Not really , you are overestimating Jellal here. Remember even Irene got overwhelmed and was like woah at one of Acnologia's casual attacks. The same Irene whose MP was on par with August , who defeated the Crime Sorciere effortlessly. Even not considering Jellal's feat of defending against Acnologia as an outlier ( because it's nowhere consistent with his performance before ) , he would have required to put full power into it because even Irene got overwhelmed by one casual attack.

Dragon Force Natsu wrestled with Mercuphobia and defeated Animus powered up with Dragon Cry . I really don't think DF Natsu would lose to Crime Sorciere. Especially since they got destroyed by August. Regular FDK Natsu is already not too much behind Jellal , and in fact in durability Natsu is better than Jellal. DF Natsu being less powerful than CS when August stomped all of them seems like a very huge stretch.

Which makes Jellal blocking one with magic to spare all the more impressive. As for August, he wrecks Zeref, low diff.

I do. Dragon Force Natsu had dragon slaying advantage against Mercuphobia and Dragon Cry. Against Merc he also had Ignia's power on top of Dragon Force on top of Slaying advantage, and in the end he still needed Team Natsu's combined effort to take him down.

atlantisreturns · Nov 1, 2019

Seven777 said:
Which makes Jellal blocking one with magic to spare all the more impressive. As for August, he wrecks Zeref, low diff.

I do. Dragon Force Natsu had dragon slaying advantage against Mercuphobia and Dragon Cry. Against Merc he also had Ignia's power on top of Dragon Force on top of Slaying advantage, and in the end he still needed Team Natsu's combined effort to take him down.

Yeah , and it contradicts his previous performance against August and Neinhart. That's why if you go on other battle forums , you would hear a word known as "outlier" if you bring that up.

As for August "wrecking" Zeref , don't forget that the same Zeref's magic worked on August's equal casually , and he has more MP than Irene , indirectly confirmed by Irene herself. That being said , the reason August may win is his magic nullification , since it's broken. Take away that , and your statement has zero meaning.

There's no thing called "slaying advantage". It's not like demon slaying magic. Dragon Slaying magic merely gives you the ability to harm dragons by turning you into a dragon , nothing else. At least this is my knowledge. If you have a panel stating dragons are exceptionally weak to dragon slaying magic , do share. So , Dragon Force Natsu deserves full credit for what he did. He defeated Animus using his own power.

Seven777 · Nov 1, 2019

atlantisreturns said:
Yeah , and it contradicts his previous performance against August and Neinhart. That's why if you go on other battle forums , you would hear a word known as "outlier" if you bring that up.

As for August "wrecking" Zeref , don't forget that the same Zeref's magic worked on August's equal casually , and he has more MP than Irene , indirectly confirmed by Irene herself. That being said , the reason August may win is his magic nullification , since it's broken. Take away that , and your statement has zero meaning.

There's no thing called "slaying advantage". It's not like demon slaying magic. Dragon Slaying magic merely gives you the ability to harm dragons by turning you into a dragon , nothing else. At least this is my knowledge. If you have a panel stating dragons are exceptionally weak to dragon slaying magic , do share. So , Dragon Force Natsu deserves full credit for what he did. He defeated Animus using his own power.

Not interested in what other people on other forums say. Jellal accomplished it, with minimal effort, without even using PoF. As for Neinhart, he came back and oneshot Neinhart, Jellal being a shit swimmer doesn't interest me.

Why should I care if August's magic nullification gives him the win over Zeref? It's not like he deactivated it against Jellal. Your statement has zero meaning.

If you have a magic specifically designed to kill something, then thats called an advantage. I call it "slayer advantage" because its easier to type out.
Uh, no, it is like Demon Slaying magic... and God Slaying magic. There's no panels that say demons or gods are exceptionally weak to slaying magic either, doesn't mean we can't interpret the obvious. I mean just look at Eileen, she went from so tough in her human form that she can tank an enchanted sword strike to the face with a minor cut, but when faced with DS magic she was gutted easily, am I supposed to believe Eileen's human form is tougher than her dragon form? Besides, Natsu was actually dragonizing against Animus, probably with a little bit of END power sprinkled in, he wasn't in normal Dragon Force like against Zeref.

atlantisreturns · Nov 1, 2019

@Seven777

Let's agree to disagree then.

If anyone asks me , Zeref wrecks simply because Zeref has more MP than August's equal , confirmed by facts I stated in my earlier posts , and August wrecked the entire CS without even using magic nullification. I don't care what anyone has to say , I've said my point. If anyone wants to deny facts , so be it.

Kurumi Tokisaki · Nov 1, 2019

atlantisreturns said:
August wrecked the entire CS without even using magic nullification. I don't care what anyone has to say , I've said my point. If anyone wants to deny facts , so be it.

You got nothing to prove that August didn't use his copy magic against CS when it is heavily implied that he did.

Seven777 · Nov 1, 2019

atlantisreturns said:
@Seven777

Let's agree to disagree then.

If anyone asks me , Zeref wrecks simply because Zeref has more MP than August's equal , confirmed by facts I stated in my earlier posts , and August wrecked the entire CS without even using magic nullification. I don't care what anyone has to say , I've said my point. If anyone wants to deny facts , so be it.

Good idea. Except for your little "deny facts" jab

Team Zeref vs Crime Sorciere

Zeref vs Crime Sorciere

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