Discussion Zoro Discussion Thread

[Pirate Queen]

What's wrong with disregarding interviews? SBS and databooks can't be taken 100% seriously either until the manga's over, especially since because Oda's not gonna tell us everything. Didn't a databook imply Sabo's death? And yet the manga shows differently.

And it doesn't matter whether Mihawk will lose or not eventually. Point was that mangaka can say one thing and do another thing, he can say Mihawk will never lose to anyone but Zoro but have Mihawk lose to Vista and Shillew way before Zoro.

I think that's ultimately what I'm trying to say, and why he'd be okay with fighting Zoro but not SHanks.

Yes he can. And he's the strongest swordsman in the world, like the wealthy he can do anything he wants. He can refuse to fight Shanks because Shanks' fighting style is inferior, at least in Mihawk's point of view, while being okay with fighting Zoro because Zoro doesn't seem to be hampered by a loss of eye.

Yes he can. And he's the strongest swordsman in the world, like the wealthy he can do anything he wants. He can refuse to fight Shanks because Shanks' fighting style is inferior, at least in Mihawk's point of view, while being okay with fighting Zoro because Zoro doesn't seem to be hampered by a loss of eye.

He refuses to fight people capable of dethroning him?
Then he is not the WSS in that case. What type of WSS would fear crossing blades with a Yonko? lol think about it. That's just silly.

He acknowledge Vista, are you implying Shanks is less worthy than VISTA?

To your first point, Oda has never outright lied about his reveals and until he does you have no right to say Oda's words cant be taken as fact.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 20, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 20, 2018 ---

Zoro doesnt really take L's

That's kind of his thing lol

 

[King Moe]

Do you know what a fight is? Can you separate it from a clash? Do you know what a defeat is?

Zoro has 3 good swords, he doesnt need new one. Chance of him getting a new sword is same as not getting it. It's just an option you favor.

Fight is a fight. Zoro and Hawkins were clashing more than just a quick one attack from each and that's it. When the fighting end, he got bloody up while Hawkins remain where he was. Oda is showing Zoro won't look unbeatable or get damage in his fights here if even Hawkins can get him.

Dude he shown interest in Luffy's sword and beg Luffy to give it to him many times. Oda is blunt of him getting a new sword, but must lose one of then to get another like it or not.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 20, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 20, 2018 ---

Zoro doesnt really take L's

That's kind of his thing lol

Lexus, hope that's a joke there as you can't be serious when you meant that. Your more logical than this XD. No character is perfect.

 

[Shasha23]

It is retarded to think Zoro will ever lose a sword by it breaking or something dumb like that, he was trained and told its shameful for a swordsman to damage his katana, and we all know how Zoro is with pride!

 

[Pirate Queen]

I was joking about Zoro not taking L's lol

But he gets are more W's than L's thats to be sure.

And hey, I fairly hype both Sanji AND Zoro

 

[nik87]

I said after he lose

You just showed earlier that you dont even know what a loss is and that you dont know what a fight is so what credit is there to your arguments when you cant grasp basic stuff?

Nah...Just you went off topic.

You always go off topic and you turn every thread into Sanji vs Zoro thread.

 

[King Moe]

I was joking about Zoro not taking L's lol

But he gets are more W's than L's thats to be sure.

And hey, I fairly hype both Sanji AND Zoro

I agree with you, but has Ws with fodder-like enemies though. Still lose to many guys here especially to Fujitora, Doflamingo, Hawkins, and so on in post-timeskip.

Though its cool. We all can't win them all, right? Though I am seriously hoping Zoro in his fights in Wano as him facing Orochi as you agree that Zoro need to fight more swordsman opponent's right, Lexus ?

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 21, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 21, 2018 ---

You just showed earlier that you dont even know what a loss is and that you dont know what a fight is so what credit is there to your arguments when you cant grasp basic stuff?

You always go off topic and you turn every thread into Sanji vs Zoro thread.

I know difference of fight and quick struggle. With Hawkins was a fight and Zoro didn't favor in it. He can still prove himself later in the arc though to redeem himself, so I am hoping for that.

You keep getting off topic. Why keep mentioning that? Your trying turn the topic to something else. So lets not do that please.

 

[nik87]

I know difference of fight and quick struggle.

Great, since you know it so well, scroll up and check the list of all the loses your favorite character collected.

 

[King Moe]

Great, since you know it so well, scroll up and check the list of all the loses your favorite character collected.

Hmmm? Don't worry, I can state them here to save time. Lets see, since Zoro is one of my favorite characters, I follow him enough to know his fights in all arcs and these are the guys he lost to being:

Buggy, Kuro, Mihawk (I can't forget this moment as it was the start of his growing legend and "I WILL NEVER LOSE AGAIN!"), Arlong, Mr. 3 and Co (Trapped in candle wax sculpture, but love this moment as he was willing to cut his own legs to still fight), Crocodile and Baroque Works (If I recall he was imprison in a cell he couldn't cut with the others), Wyper and Enel, Rob Lucci and Kaku, Gecko Moria (He stole his shadow after all) and Oars, Kuma, Pacisfista, Perona (Gotta love Hollow Ghosts), Baboons, Hody and New Fishman Pirates (While he did defeat Hody, he still got captured in the end and Hody got the last laugh from it), Yeti Brothers, Fujitora, Doflamingo's Birdcage, and recently Hawkins.

Though despite these loses, I still see greatness in Zoro. Actually fights that make him struggle I always enjoy like Daz Bones, Kaku, and so on. These fights truly made me a fan of his and I only want to see more of that. Which is why in Wano I am hoping to see something similar to this and him losing a sword to gain another one for a comeback against Orochi. Pretty sure we all can agree we love it when Zoro struggles as you get more fight of him after all .

Now lets keep on track on talking about Zoro and not go off-track please.

 

[King Moe]

@King Moe It doesnt mean that its not trolling if the troll says it isnt.

If I was trolling, it won't be like this. I am asking a legitimate question. Do you enjoy Zoro's fighting those guys or not? I wouldn't ask you this if I didn't care and didn't want to talk to you.

What was your favorite Zoro moment then?

 

[nik87]

What was your favorite Zoro moment then?

When he K.O. Sanji in Thriller Bark.

 

[Pirate Queen]

When he K.O. Sanji in Thriller Bark.

Zoro slashing a galleon sized ship reminiscent of Mihawk doing the same.

Best Zoro moment hands down

 

[King Moe]

When he K.O. Sanji in Thriller Bark.

I prefer Zoro vs Mihawk as despite battered and beaten, he is truly emotional and strong-willed guy. I am hoping to see his growth in Wano from Mihawk's training him.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 21, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 21, 2018 ---

Zoro slashing a galleon sized ship reminiscent of Mihawk doing the same.

Best Zoro moment hands down

Hey Lexus, do you think their a backstory for Wano like some think Zoro is original from Wano?

 

[M3J]

His battle against Hawkins is undetermined because Zoro and Luffy weren't trying to fight.
In any case, I don't see Zoro losing badly, not at this point anyway. He'll probably lose, but it'll be a hard fight, nothing like Zoro vs. Mihawk 1. But then again, Zoro might challenge an Emperor like Luffy did, so who knows.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

When he K.O. Sanji in Thriller Bark.

lmao sanji was one-shotted by zoro

 

[afromarco005]

What Oda says is not factual, it's what he shows in the manga. Oda can tell us Mihawk is the strongest but have him lose to Vista easily.

But eventually Mihawk WILL lose. We readers rely on the Author of their own manga to fill in pieces to the story for us. What your basically saying is that we shouldn't listen to the author of his own manga. That's ridiculous. Do you know how many SBS's, Data books, and interviews we would have to disregard?

The manga does show Mihawk considers one arm to be a handicap though. He's probably wrong, but that's what he think, likely because Shanks went from two hands to one and not just because he has one arm now. If that makes sense.

Yes, he CONSIDERS it a handicap. It doesn't mean it is. You do make sense here and I agree with you.

How is it as big a disability if Color of Observation can help him get around that? I actually wouldn't be shocked if Zoro willingly let his eye get damaged just to improve his Color of Observation

I'm not 100% sure the loss of an eye a disability (see Admiral Fujitora hahaha). Just like I'm not so sure only having 1 arm to fight is a disability (It sure as hell doesn't seem like it to me when Shanks can no diff block a blood lusted Akainu, Clash with Whitebeard, Threaten to take on all of Marineford that included 3 near healthy Admiral, Fleet Admiral, and a future Yonko.)

Not a single person in marineford wanted to fuck with Shanks.

My original point is that Mihawk cant pic and choose what he sees as a disability. It's ridiculous. What does he consider a weakness and is it fair for the WSS to pic and choose his fighters.

Another point I want to make If Zoro defeated Mihawk with just one eye, you can be sure as hell that people (maybe you) are going to be crying "OMG ZORO DEFEATED MIHAWK WITH ONLY 1 EYE!!!" Like it was a disability all along when we don't know if it's a handicap or not.

I'm Lexusflame and thank you for coming to my Tedtalk

Yes he can. And he's the strongest swordsman in the world, like the wealthy he can do anything he wants. He can refuse to fight Shanks because Shanks' fighting style is inferior, at least in Mihawk's point of view, while being okay with fighting Zoro because Zoro doesn't seem to be hampered by a loss of eye.

He refuses to fight people capable of dethroning him?
Then he is not the WSS in that case. What type of WSS would fear crossing blades with a Yonko? lol think about it. That's just silly.

He acknowledge Vista, are you implying Shanks is less worthy than VISTA?

To your first point, Oda has never outright lied about his reveals and until he does you have no right to say Oda's words cant be taken as fact.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 20, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 20, 2018 ---

Zoro doesnt really take L's

That's kind of his thing lol

If Shanks could dethrone Mihawk after all the clashes they had it would already be the case. I think the problem people have is that they dont like the idea of Mihawk a shishibukai to be able to best Shanks a yonko.

On the two handed matter I asked a friend who does kendo and they told me that the basic stance with two hands on a sword not only gives a better grip on the hilt of the sword but allows the user to put more weight and strenght in his blows.

Then again I am not sure if Oda is following real world's physics so I may be wrong

 

[Pirate Queen]

If Shanks could dethrone Mihawk after all the clashes they had it would already be the case. I think the problem people have is that they dont like the idea of Mihawk a shishibukai to be able to best Shanks a yonko.

On the two handed matter I asked a friend who does kendo and they told me that the basic stance with two hands on a sword not only gives a better grip on the hilt of the sword but allows the user to put more weight and strenght in his blows.

Then again I am not sure if Oda is following real world's physics so I may be wrong

I think the problem people have is that they dont like the idea of Mihawk a shishibukai to be able to best Shanks a yonko.
I feel that way as well. Mihawk is only a shichibukai because he has no desire to become an emperor.

It has been heavily implied Mihawk is AT LEAST between YC1 and Yonko anyone doubting Mihawks strength at this point just doesnt understand manga or is heavily misinformed.

If Shanks could dethrone Mihawk after all the clashes they had it would already be the case.

This is the issue, they clashed numerous times. It is never hinted or implied that Mihawk won EVERY SINGLE TIME. They would not have a rivalry if that was the case and Mihawk would be known as the man who defeated Shanks. They spared, we dont know if it was too the death or how the battles went so to imply Mihawk is > Shanks (overall)is outright false.

(Unless we are presented with more facts about their duels)

We DO know for a fact that where swordsmanship is concerned Mihawk>Shanks. We know swordsmanship is a skillbased attribute though, not a measurement of ones strength.

On the two handed matter I asked a friend who does kendo and they told me that the basic stance with two hands on a sword not only gives a better grip on the hilt of the sword but allows the user to put more weight and strenght in his blows.

I dont even have to study kendo to understand that more force is put into a 2 handed slash then a 1 handed. But like you said, Oda doesnt use real world physics or Shanks would have never been able to stop a blood lusted Akainu

 

[M3J]

Yes he can. And he's the strongest swordsman in the world, like the wealthy he can do anything he wants. He can refuse to fight Shanks because Shanks' fighting style is inferior, at least in Mihawk's point of view, while being okay with fighting Zoro because Zoro doesn't seem to be hampered by a loss of eye.

He refuses to fight people capable of dethroning him?
Then he is not the WSS in that case. What type of WSS would fear crossing blades with a Yonko? lol think about it. That's just silly.

He acknowledge Vista, are you implying Shanks is less worthy than VISTA?

To your first point, Oda has never outright lied about his reveals and until he does you have no right to say Oda's words cant be taken as fact.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 20, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 20, 2018 ---

Zoro doesnt really take L's

That's kind of his thing lol

What if he became the World's Strongest Swordsman because Shanks's swordsmanship wasn't good enough to rival him after Shanks lost an arm? If Shanks was capable of dethroning him, he'd have either done so, or Mihawk wouldn't have stopped fighting. Or, Mihawk probably has a code of honor where he doesn't fight people who recently lost a limb.

How does acknowledging mean anything? He didn't meet Vista until Marineford whereas he stopped having clashes with Shanks after SHanks lost his arm.

You can believe that if you want, but I'm still going by what the manga shows as opposed to what the mangaka says. If Oda said Sabo was definitely dead despite foreshadowing that he could have been saved by Dragon, would you believe Oda blindly? If the manga shows Sabo being alive, are you still going to believe Oda saying Sabo is dead? Or would you realize that it's better to take what Oda says about potential future plot with a grain of salt?

 

[Pirate Queen]

What if he became the World's Strongest Swordsman because Shanks's swordsmanship wasn't good enough to rival him after Shanks lost an arm? If Shanks was capable of dethroning him, he'd have either done so, or Mihawk wouldn't have stopped fighting. Or, Mihawk probably has a code of honor where he doesn't fight people who recently lost a limb.

How does acknowledging mean anything? He didn't meet Vista until Marineford whereas he stopped having clashes with Shanks after SHanks lost his arm.

You can believe that if you want, but I'm still going by what the manga shows as opposed to what the mangaka says. If Oda said Sabo was definitely dead despite foreshadowing that he could have been saved by Dragon, would you believe Oda blindly? If the manga shows Sabo being alive, are you still going to believe Oda saying Sabo is dead? Or would you realize that it's better to take what Oda says about potential future plot with a grain of salt?

You can believe that if you want, but I'm still going by what the manga shows as opposed to what the mangaka says
But the manga doesn't show Shanks being any weaker. You are going off the words and feelings of a character(Mihawk) and they can be wrong.

Please show me evidence of Shanks being weaker and if you can't then it is obvious you aren't going by what the manga shows at all.

What if he became the World's Strongest Swordsman because Shanks's swordsmanship wasn't good enough to rival him after Shanks lost an arm? If Shanks was capable of dethroning him, he'd have either done so, or Mihawk wouldn't have stopped fighting. Or, Mihawk probably has a code of honor where he doesn't fight people who recently lost a limb

When you need to use What if Scenarios to prove your points, that's an indication your arguements weakening dude. Again, You don't know what their rivalry entailed but it is insane to think Mihawk won EVERY SINGLE ONE of their clashes.

Can I ask you, do you really think Mihawk won every single time they fought?

If nothing else, answer this question because I need to know where you stand.

If Oda said Sabo was definitely dead despite foreshadowing that he could have been saved by Dragon, would you believe Oda blindly? If the manga shows Sabo being alive, are you still going to believe Oda saying Sabo is dead? Or would you realize that it's better to take what Oda says about potential future plot with a grain of salt?

This is a false equivalency and you should know better. Sabo's death was clearly to avoid spoilers and not flat out lie to the readers.

As opposed to a clear statement saying outright that Shanks lost none of his power.

Morely created Impel Down 5.5
Haki Proficiency of Luffy, Sanji, Zoro
ETC.

 

[M3J]

I never said Shanks was weaker, I'm guessing as to why Mihawk chose to stop fighting Shanks after he lost an arm, and why he'd fight Zoro despite Zoro losing an eye. I never said Mihawk was right, and I'm one of the ones who even say characters can be wrong or misleading.

Can you prove me wrong though? I don't know when Mihawk got the title, but if it was before Shanks losing his arm, then that would mean he won his fights. If anything though, they'd have probably tied otherwise Mihawk wouldn't hesitate in fighting Shanks without an arm if Shanks beat him often enough.


It's not false equivalency, it's an example of why manga >>> databook and Oda, and databooks are usually accurate up to a certain point in the manga. I've even said that databook can't always be trusted because Oda's not gonna want to spoil us on future plots, and he would even be mysterious about Zoro's eye.

And again, tell me what Mihawk's thinking and why he chose not to fight Shanks. It doesn't matter whether Shanks lost some of his strength or not and if it's canon, it hasn't stopped Mihawk from refusing to fight Shanks. I'm not saying Shanks isn't as strong as he was with two arms, I'm saying Mihawk might think that. Did Oda explain why Mihawk stopped fighting Shanks even though he says Shanks lost no power or strength?

 

[Pirate Queen]

Agree or disagree

It's not the character design of the Shogun Orochi that makes him be a bad END OF ARC match up for the Zoro... But the fact that the leader of the Samurai used a GUN against the CP Ageis 0.

I can't think of a more disrespectful way for a samurai to deal with someone...

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 2, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 2, 2019 ---

whether it was to make a point or not