What has Mihawk taught Zoro? Only Haki from what we saw and any decent combatant from New World could have taught him that.
It seems that Mihawk didnt share with Zoro the specifics about the Kokuto forging process since he doesn't know about it.
Zoro's combat style didnt change at all after training from Mihawk, he still uses the same Santoryu style he always used, actually it never changes since the start of the series. He always trained only physical strength in pre-TS and during TS he was training Haki.
Not sure what Mihawk could have taught Zoro so that Zoro has an advantage over him compared to others.
At the end of this... Zoro defeats Mihawk, but could he have done it without being trained by Mihawk? That is the question we are going to be debating now. One that I have serious doubts. Mihawk would have basically defeated himself by training Zoro.
Man, you blow my mind!!! I like Zoro, but his fight with Mihawk is never a thing I care to much about. You know, it’s a thing that Oda didn’t developed very well... We never see anyone wanting to be the WSS out of Zoro. Seems a little empty the title. Rogers for exemple, fights with a sword but I don’t think he’s the SWW even beginning monstrous strong as I think he is. Shanks is another exemple. But all that is another discussion.
What you said makes all sense to me. As long we don’t know how Mihawk trained Zoro, the two of them can very well spared one time or another and Zoro can learn a little of Mihawk fight style. If you note, Zoro use a lot more Ittoryu pos-TS than he used to do pre-TS
Yeah, I dont know. He most likely trained physical strength as well, like he always did on his own.
It remains fact tho that aside from those two, strength and Haki, he didnt show anything that would give him an edge over others against Mihawk.
He kept his Santoryu fighting style the same way it was before Mihawk's training.
Yeah, I dont know. He most likely trained physical strength as well, like he always did on his own.
It remains fact tho that aside from those two, strength and Haki, he didnt show anything that would give him an edge over others against Mihawk.
He kept his Santoryu fighting style the same way it was before Mihawk's training.
Because he hasnt fought Mihawk yet! Lol. The tricks he make have developed against Mihawk may not work against other or Zoro many not even need to use them because they aren't as troublesome.
Let's put it this way...
If 2 rookie boxers started training for the title shot against the Heavy Weight Champion of the World, who would win?
The rookie left to find his own mean of defeating the champ?
Or
The rookie that begged the Champ to train him so that he could later gain the title himself?
The 2nd rookie has every single advantage over the 1st you could possibly think of.
What if the champ moved a certain way, allowing the 2nd rookie to develop a strategy to counter said movement?
What if the Champ's left arm dropped after every third punch? Which would be more likely to develop a plan to exploit it? The rookie whose seen it for 2 years? Or the one left without that heads up?
It as simply as one can say... Zoro has an unfair advantage to get the title WSS.
Does this change anything? No, because no one cares enough. But it matters in threads like these when people pretend Zoro is going to get the title with maximum tension. Its not.
Man, you blow my mind!!! I like Zoro, but his fight with Mihawk is never a thing I care to much about. You know, it’s a thing that Oda didn’t developed very well... We never see anyone wanting to be the WSS out of Zoro. Seems a little empty the title. Rogers for exemple, fights with a sword but I don’t think he’s the SWW even beginning monstrous strong as I think he is. Shanks is another exemple. But all that is another discussion.
What you said makes all sense to me. As long we don’t know how Mihawk trained Zoro, the two of them can very well spared one time or another and Zoro can learn a little of Mihawk fight style. If you note, Zoro use a lot more Ittoryu pos-TS than he used to do pre-TS
It's not. We know for a fact Oda didnt develop it well because it never mentioned. Not a single Wano resident (The Land of Samurai) have even whispered about wanting to become the WSS.
It isn't important. That isnt to say Zoro's dream is meaningless... but it's not important to 99.999999999999% of the verse. Zoro has no rivals, he doesnt fight elite swordsmen and the 1 time he did this happened...
He was straight embarrassed by the first competent swordsmen he came across.
I'm not all that impressed with Zoro's character at the moment.
Because he hasnt fought Mihawk yet! Lol. The tricks he make have developed against Mihawk may not work against other or Zoro many not even need to use them because they aren't as troublesome.
Let's put it this way...
If 2 rookie boxers started training for the title shot against the Heavy Weight Champion of the World, who would win?
The rookie left to find his own mean of defeating the champ?
Or
The rookie that begged the Champ to train him so that he could later gain the title himself?
The 2nd rookie has every single advantage over the 1st you could possibly think of.
What if the champ moved a certain way, allowing the 2nd rookie to develop a strategy to counter said movement?
What if the Champ's left arm dropped after every third punch? Which would be more likely to develop a plan to exploit it? The rookie whose seen it for 2 years? Or the one left without that heads up?
It as simply as one can say... Zoro has an unfair advantage to get the title WSS.
Does this change anything? No, because no one cares enough. But it matters in threads like these when people pretend Zoro is going to get the title with maximum tension. Its not.
Well, did it help Shanks to beat Mihawk?
He fought the champ first hand, serious combat. Not that Zoro didnt do the same back in Baratie.
Your example only works if Mihawk has gone all out on Zoro and he knows all about his combat which is silly, if we are serious.
Even knowing all about Mihawk's combat changes nothing in Zoro's case because Mihawk got to know him too, so that "advantage" is mutual.
Knowing his combat style and being able to beat it are two different dimensions.
Well, did it help Shanks to beat Mihawk?
He fought the champ first hand, serious combat. Not that Zoro didnt do the same back in Baratie.
Your example only works if Mihawk has gone all out on Zoro and he knows all about his combat which is silly, if we are serious.
Even knowing all about Mihawk's combat changes nothing in Zoro's case because Mihawk got to know him too, so that "advantage" is mutual.
Knowing his combat style and being able to beat it are two different dimensions.
There is no advantage as I pointed out. While Zoro knows Mihawk good, Mihawk also knows Zoro good.
While Shiryu doesnt know Mihawk, Mihawk also doesnt know Shiryu. Advantage/disadvantage is mutual.
That's... a good point. I don't think that literally happened of course but the fact is that without mihawk being a shichibukai then the series has lost its most obvious plot device to force zoro and mihawk to fight, in spite of it being of the the series longest standing plot points and one sided rivalries. For them to fight for reasons other than to merely test their abilities while more important stuff is going on.... mihawk would have to join a pirate crew that is an enemy to the strawhats. Which at the moment would appear to be the yonko.... maybe mihawk joins shanks and shanks will end up an enemy to luffy? Shanks so far has acted in order to stop what he sees as pointless war and conflict.... So perhaps it is not too strange that he would end up at odds with luffy who has pranced around the new world picking fights with the yonko.
tf? Why does he have to be a shichibukai or a member of a group for him to fight Zoro? The main reason why Zoro wants to fight Mihawk is to beat him and become the world's greatest swordsman, not because he's a shichibukai. Mihawk wants to fight Zoro because Zoro is a worthy challenger.
There is no advantage as I pointed out. While Zoro knows Mihawk good, Mihawk also knows Zoro good.
While Shiryu doesnt know Mihawk, Mihawk also doesnt know Shiryu. Advantage/disadvantage is mutual.
What am I not understanding? Zoro has better chances of beating Mihawk than Shanks and Rayleigh have, because Mihawk trained Zoro?
What has changed on Zoro's combat style due to Mihawk's training? Other than Haki, that is.
What am I not understanding? Zoro has better chances of beating Mihawk than Shanks and Rayleigh have, because Mihawk trained Zoro?
What has changed on Zoro's combat style due to Mihawk's training? Other than Haki, that is.
Again you dont understand. It has nothing to do with Combat Styles! Everything to do with learning about Mihawk. His mannerisms, is combat etiquette, the best ways to counter Mihawks fighting style
Even Mihawk laughed at how outrageous the request was for that very reason, but your like "nope, not an advantage"
Zoro got invaluable knowledge from Mihawk that he will then use to defeat Mihawk. It's a litteral joke
I'm not wasting my time as I would just be repeating myself.
I do agree there is knowledge to absorb about Mihawk, but I don't think it's going to go down like you believe. I really couldn't imagine a hollow victory being paved for Zoro. Zoro will have to claim it through strength. He's not going to defeat Mihawk by knowing his tendencies or a tell that Mihawk has. That would be dumb writing. Oda will have Zoro surpass Mihawk in strength.
Mihawk definitely fast-tracked Zoro, 100%. That's because Zoro's goal is lofty, and the future Pirate King should have nothing less. I like the fact that Zoro and Luffy got the absolute best people to fast-track them - but they (Zoro or Luffy) should not be discredited for that. Their talent is theirs.
I do agree there is knowledge to absorb about Mihawk, but I don't think it's going to go down like you believe. I really couldn't imagine a hollow victory being paved for Zoro. Zoro will have to claim it through strength. He's not going to defeat Mihawk by knowing his tendencies or a tell that Mihawk has. That would be dumb writing. Oda will have Zoro surpass Mihawk in strength.
Mihawk definitely fast-tracked Zoro, 100%. That's because Zoro's goal is lofty, and the future Pirate King should have nothing less. I like the fact that Zoro and Luffy got the absolute best people to fast-track them - but they (Zoro or Luffy) should not be discredited for that. Their talent is theirs.
Exactly, I dont see how Mihawk training Zoro helps Zoro to beat him, expect it being sped up to fit the time line.
Nobody blamed Sanji's cooking being good because Ivankov taught him or that Luffy's Pk achievement will be tainted because Rayleigh taught him...
Mihawk can train any other swordsman and still Zoro will be the only one to surpass him. As I said, learning everything about Mihawk is mutual, just like Zoro knows how Mihawk breathes, the same Mihawk knows how Zoro breathes...
I do agree there is knowledge to absorb about Mihawk, but I don't think it's going to go down like you believe. I really couldn't imagine a hollow victory being paved for Zoro. Zoro will have to claim it through strength. He's not going to defeat Mihawk by knowing his tendencies or a tell that Mihawk has. That would be dumb writing. Oda will have Zoro surpass Mihawk in strength.
Mihawk definitely fast-tracked Zoro, 100%. That's because Zoro's goal is lofty, and the future Pirate King should have nothing less. I like the fact that Zoro and Luffy got the absolute best people to fast-track them - but they (Zoro or Luffy) should not be discredited for that. Their talent is theirs.
I've already said this takes nothing away from Zoro but it is a fact.
He had a shortcut. Where others wouldn't and to deny that is to deny facts. I never said this lessens Zoro's victory.
But seeing as he is the only one racing, it doesn't matter overall.
In the end, my point is moot unless another person tries to get the title of WSS from Mihawk... which there hasnt
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It would be like Shanks telling Luffy that he needs to find 4 red Poneglyphs before he can become PK when the other 10 Supernova have no idea what Poneglyphs even are. And while Shanks didnt directly tell him the locations of the Red Poneglyphs it is still a massive shortcut to reaching Raftel.
Exactly, I dont see how Mihawk training Zoro helps Zoro to beat him, expect it being sped up to fit the time line.
Nobody blamed Sanji's cooking being good because Ivankov taught him or that Luffy's Pk achievement will be tainted because Rayleigh taught him...
Mihawk can train any other swordsman and still Zoro will be the only one to surpass him. As I said, learning everything about Mihawk is mutual, just like Zoro knows how Mihawk breathes, the same Mihawk knows how Zoro breathes...
Sanji was already a unparalelled top chef, Ivan gave him recipes, not how to cook.
Rayleigh didnt tell Luffy about Rio Ponelgyphs. In fact Luffy refused all information as it would lesson his adventure. And it would have fast tracked their travels
Zoro ran to the man he tried to defeat to make himself strong enough to eventually try to take the title from him.
I've already said this takes nothing away from Zoro but it is a fact.
He had a shortcut. Where others wouldn't and to deny that is to deny facts. I never said this lessens Zoro's victory.
But seeing as he is the only one racing, it doesn't matter overall.
In the end, my point is moot unless another person tries to get the title of WSS from Mihawk... which there hasnt
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It would be like Shanks telling Luffy that he needs to find 4 red Poneglyphs before he can become PK when the other 10 Supernova have no idea what Poneglyphs even are. And while Shanks didnt directly tell him the locations of the Red Poneglyphs it is still a massive shortcut to reaching Raftel.
It is an unfair advantage through and through.
--- Double Post Merged, ---
Sanji was already a unparalelled top chef, Ivan gave him recipes, not how to cook.
Rayleigh didnt tell Luffy about Rio Ponelgyphs. In fact Luffy refused all information as it would lesson his adventure. And it would have fast tracked their travels
Zoro ran to the man he tried to defeat to make himself strong enough to eventually try to take the title from him.
It's exactly the same shortcut and you know it.
Without recipes, Sanji can be as good as he wants, he wont be able to cook meals that will strengthen his nakama.
Luffy wants to fight top dogs and you say that Rayleigh's training wasnt a shortcut while Zoro's was? LoL, cmon Lexus-chan...
That's not why though. Zoro begged Mihawk to train him so he could get stronger for Luffy and his crewmates' sake. Mihawk himself was surprised that Zoro bowed his head and surmised that to Zoro there were more important things than pride.
Luffy doesn't have to fight Shanks to become the Pirate King, but he wants to. Zoro has to fight Mihawk, currently the world's greatest swordsman, in order to become the greatest swordsman. The only way he doesn't have to fight Mihawk is if someone else takes the title from Mihawk.
It's exactly the same shortcut and you know it.
Without recipes, Sanji can be as good as he wants, he wont be able to cook meals that will strengthen his nakama.
Luffy wants to fight top dogs and you say that Rayleigh's training wasnt a shortcut while Zoro's was? LoL, cmon Lexus-chan...
That's not why though. Zoro begged Mihawk to train him so he could get stronger for Luffy and his crewmates' sake. Mihawk himself was surprised that Zoro bowed his head and surmised that to Zoro there were more important things than pride.
Luffy doesn't have to fight Shanks to become the Pirate King, but he wants to. Zoro has to fight Mihawk, currently the world's greatest swordsman, in order to become the greatest swordsman. The only way he doesn't have to fight Mihawk is if someone else takes the title from Mihawk.
Questionable as we don't know how much Mihawk has taught him, and he doesn't have as much experience as the other swordsmen like Vista, who was acknowledged by Mihawk.
Questionable as we don't know how much Mihawk has taught him, and he doesn't have as much experience as the other swordsmen like Vista, who was acknowledged by Mihawk.
It is not questionable. Mihawk trained him knowing Zoro would eventually try to take his title away from him... hence why he laughed at the idea of training Zoro
