Discussion Zoro Discussion Thread

[kkck]

I am still rooting for two things regarding zoro:

1.- the first is that he gets something going with hiyori. I don't really expect the series to get THAT much romance in general but a few other strawhats already have some form of romance going on. Luffy has boa (though luffy isn't exactly reciprocal, she makes for a perfect pirate empress), sanji got a little bit of romance with pudding... At this point it's only fair that zoro gets something on the side.

2.- I hope that zoro turns out to have conqueror's haki. Yonko crews so far have turned out to have multiple conqueror haki users in general. I'd bet on marco and king having it at least, katakuri had it... Oden had it so for a while he probably made for a third conqueror's haki in WB's and roger's crew... Oh, and rayleigh had it. At this point it feels like the strawhats don't have at least two conquerors in their main crew. I used to think sanji might also turn out to have it but since his big boost for this arc turned out to be a silly invisibility suit while zoro and luffy got substantial haki upgrades I've lost faith in him even being in the monster trio. As of now sanji's armor haki is way to subpar to fight at even the low end of yonko commanders.

 

[nik87]

I think we have been observing the Power levels through Luffy lenses and based on WCI, Zoro cannot be stronger than YC3 Cracker or YC1 Katakuri because they have pushed Luffy into extreme difficult fights where he needed help to win. However, both opponents were great counters for Luffy because both were good at avoiding hits and on top of that Luffy's G4 has a time limit.

While Cracker's biscuits were tough for G3, they were a joke for G4 but the amount of them managed to stall G4 as well. Manga has already proven that things that are hard for Luffy to punch through are not hard to cut for swordsmen, even swordsmen way below Zoro. I think Cracker would present no challenge for Zoro at all and would have been dealt with swiftly.
Katakuri neutralized Luffy's greatest strength by avoiding his hits, however, once hit he was getting completely demolished by Boundman, to the point that even Doflamingo endured it better. Luffy also lacked great AoE's that could neutralize the effect of Future Sight while Zoro has a couple in his repertoire.

Zoro has shown quite a feat against Fujitora when he was being pressed by his gravity and his Destructive Capabilities stat against Pica has only been matched by a couple of other characters, even most top tiers so far have not shown DC that great. The best of all, Zoro has shown nothing new since time skip and didnt even have to resort to his ultimate ability from before TS, not to mention the results of training or a possibly PU mid-fight he can pull in Wano.

While Luffy has been playing with animals in Ruskaina Island, Zoro has gone against the World's Strongest Swordsman for 2 years. The difference in their training and the difference in the result of their training has to be great, Zoro always gave off a vibe that he isnt impressed by the strength of characters which Luffy praised as strong. The reason why Luffy got so much attention in WCI when it comes to fighting is probably because most of the spotlight in Wano will belong to Zoro and he was already having more fights than Luffy and the trend will continue, imo.

King has written all over him "Zoro's opponent" and I think even him is not an individual who can push Zoro to 100% but probably has something that will prevent Zoro from dominating a fight, probably fire abilities which will force Zoro into evasive maneuvers and possibly some feather-based projectiles. I think Ryuma's legend of dragon slaying above the capital will be repeated by Zoro and all the Wano will see it. Luffy has better chances of taking down BM than taking down Kaido but he will probably get his 5 mins against Kaido too.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

If Zoro came along to WCI, BM would have fallen by now.

Lmao imagine luffy fighting katakuri while zoro 1v1 big mom
The OP online forum will explode

 

[nik87]

The OP online forum will explode

My gut tells me, Wano will mine a lot of salt.

 

[jaymizzo]

Because it's his opinion. Challenge it if you disagree, simply calling it out as bait won't get discussion any further.

The point being the discussion will just be about his opinion while not proving anything. But cool, lets see how well this "discussion" goes.

@nik87
What proof do you have that Zoro not only came back stronger than Luffy, but waaay stronger? What metric are we using here?

Both Zoro and Luffy were trained. They did not fight opponents out to kill them. So dont bring that up as an argument. Can you provide, some evidence to your opinion as to how and why Zoro came back not just stronger, but waay stronger than Luffy.

Not just your opinion. Base it off the manga please.

 

[kcd]

The point being the discussion will just be about his opinion while not proving anything. But cool, lets see how well this "discussion" goes.

@nik87
What proof do you have that Zoro not only came back stronger than Luffy, but waaay stronger? What metric are we using here?

Both Zoro and Luffy were trained. They did not fight opponents out to kill them. So dont bring that up as an argument. Can you provide, some evidence to your opinion as to how and why Zoro came back not just stronger, but waay stronger than Luffy.

Not just your opinion. Base it off the manga please.

I wouldn't waste my energy if I were you. Data book have already clearly stated Zoro is the second strongest, that is, he's the strongest after his captain. Anyone saying or claiming otherwise even after knowing what the data book says is having serious head canon issues.

"He's way stronger than Luffy?!"

Lol, what a guy!

 

[nik87]

The point being the discussion will just be about his opinion while not proving anything. But cool, lets see how well this "discussion" goes.
@nik87
What proof do you have that Zoro not only came back stronger than Luffy, but waaay stronger? What metric are we using here?

Both Zoro and Luffy were trained. They did not fight opponents out to kill them. So dont bring that up as an argument. Can you provide, some evidence to your opinion as to how and why Zoro came back not just stronger, but waay stronger than Luffy.
Not just your opinion. Base it off the manga please.

Of course it is my opinion just like your posts are your opinion...
I am basing it on match-ups which matter and make a difference, manga has already shown that things which Luffy cant punch through are easily cut.
Based on that, Cracker is child's play for Zoro. He only looked tough because he was effectively stalling Luffy and shown nothing else.
I am also basing it on the ineffectiveness of Luffy's combat style. Zoro doesnt have time limits like Luffy nor does he need countless clean hits to take out an opponent, he just needs 1 clean slice and it is over.

The training matters, Luffy has gone again beasts while Zoro could have gone only against Mihawk himself. If you are equaling fighting wild beasts with fighting Mihawk, then I cant help you. Luffy has yet to fight an opponent who is in the same ballpark with Mihawk. Wild beasts were defeated easily by TS Luffy while Mihawk has always remained above Zoro, the progress cant possibly be the same.
Another thing why Luffy came back weaker than Zoro is because Zoro will go from having no challenge to defeating someone like King while Luffy's last 1vs1 was no other than Chinjao, for everything that came after he needed help.

"He's way stronger than Luffy?!"
Lol, what a guy!

Feats will speak for themselves, Zoro hasnt shown anything yet and casually has dwarfed G3 Luffy already.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Sometimes people really can't handle the 1 week breaks

 

[Fox666]

If Zoro came along to WCI, BM would have fallen by now.

Huh?

Nami is only stating the obvious

They didn't came to fight, they didn't even bring their whole crew with them

 

[Brandish μ]

I've re-read the Zoro parts of Wano (typing this on phone, Wano autocorrected to wank, in this thread of all places haha, anyway) in anticipation of what is to come for him.

Enma isn't a black blade yet, even though Oden had it. So if Zoro does elevate the sword (imo he will) we're gonna see stuff Oden couldn't do. And there'll be the Shimotsuki history reveal in the build up to. I don't think Zoro is one tbh.

 

[nik87]

Huh?

Nami is only stating the obvious

They didn't came to fight, they didn't even bring their whole crew with them

What Nami says is that if they wanted to fight her they would have brought Zoro who is obviously singled out as he is a deciding factor.

They didnt have Zoro but gained a Supernova with his entire crew plus a Shichibukai Jinbe plus a mad scientist with hax fruit and yet they didnt fight her.

But with Zoro they could. I think he is far bigger monster than what we could possibly imagine(even for me who wanks Zoro).

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

What Nami says is that if they wanted to fight her they would have brought Zoro who is obviously singled out as he is a deciding factor.

They didnt have Zoro but gained a Supernova with his entire crew plus a Shichibukai Jinbe plus a mad scientist with hax fruit and yet they didnt fight her.

But with Zoro they could. I think he is far bigger monster than what we could possibly imagine(even for me who wanks Zoro).

Its impossible to measure zoro's power only based on imagination of mere human beings like us

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 2, 2020, Original Post Date: Mar 2, 2020 ---

Will zoro fight mihawk tho?
I wonder how oda will bring the motivation for zoro to fight mihawk since mihawk is no longer an ally of WG

 

[nik87]

Will zoro fight mihawk tho?
I wonder how oda will bring the motivation for zoro to fight mihawk since mihawk is no longer an ally of WG

Of course he will. Being part of the WG was never necessary, the reason why he will fight him is the same reason why he already fought him.
To be the strongest swordsman in the world.

 

[M3J]

What Nami says is that if they wanted to fight her they would have brought Zoro who is obviously singled out as he is a deciding factor.

They didnt have Zoro but gained a Supernova with his entire crew plus a Shichibukai Jinbe plus a mad scientist with hax fruit and yet they didnt fight her.

But with Zoro they could. I think he is far bigger monster than what we could possibly imagine(even for me who wanks Zoro).

Zoro was mentioned because he is one of the main fighters, and Sanji was in enemy's hands so he might have been able to fight.

Plus, Luffy and Jinbei proved that beating Big Mom was likely impossible given Luffy couldn't scratch her, Jinbei was unable to stop Big Mom, and they had more important matters to get to after saving Sanji.

 

[nik87]

Plus, Luffy and Jinbei proved that beating Big Mom was likely impossible given Luffy couldn't scratch her, Jinbei was unable to stop Big Mom,

Nothing is impossible when you bring along a powerhouse like Zoro who is far more lethal than Luffy and Jinbe combined.

 

[M3J]

Nothing is impossible when you bring along a powerhouse like Zoro who is far more lethal than Luffy and Jinbe combined.

Zoro, Sanji, Jinbei, and Luffy combined wouldn't even put a dent on Big Mom.

 

[nik87]

Zoro, Sanji, Jinbei, and Luffy combined wouldn't even put a dent on Big Mom.

Nami alone fried her with help of Zeus, in her weakened state granted but still.
Luffy, Sanji and Jinbe tried to punch through an iron balloon, they are at a disadvantage.
Zoro would cut her up.
It will be proven in this arc once he claims Kaido's head that Big Mom was not safe from him back in WCI.

 

[kkck]

I think we have been observing the Power levels through Luffy lenses and based on WCI, Zoro cannot be stronger than YC3 Cracker or YC1 Katakuri because they have pushed Luffy into extreme difficult fights where he needed help to win. However, both opponents were great counters for Luffy because both were good at avoiding hits and on top of that Luffy's G4 has a time limit.

While Cracker's biscuits were tough for G3, they were a joke for G4 but the amount of them managed to stall G4 as well. Manga has already proven that things that are hard for Luffy to punch through are not hard to cut for swordsmen, even swordsmen way below Zoro. I think Cracker would present no challenge for Zoro at all and would have been dealt with swiftly.
Katakuri neutralized Luffy's greatest strength by avoiding his hits, however, once hit he was getting completely demolished by Boundman, to the point that even Doflamingo endured it better. Luffy also lacked great AoE's that could neutralize the effect of Future Sight while Zoro has a couple in his repertoire.

Zoro has shown quite a feat against Fujitora when he was being pressed by his gravity and his Destructive Capabilities stat against Pica has only been matched by a couple of other characters, even most top tiers so far have not shown DC that great. The best of all, Zoro has shown nothing new since time skip and didnt even have to resort to his ultimate ability from before TS, not to mention the results of training or a possibly PU mid-fight he can pull in Wano.

While Luffy has been playing with animals in Ruskaina Island, Zoro has gone against the World's Strongest Swordsman for 2 years. The difference in their training and the difference in the result of their training has to be great, Zoro always gave off a vibe that he isnt impressed by the strength of characters which Luffy praised as strong. The reason why Luffy got so much attention in WCI when it comes to fighting is probably because most of the spotlight in Wano will belong to Zoro and he was already having more fights than Luffy and the trend will continue, imo.

King has written all over him "Zoro's opponent" and I think even him is not an individual who can push Zoro to 100% but probably has something that will prevent Zoro from dominating a fight, probably fire abilities which will force Zoro into evasive maneuvers and possibly some feather-based projectiles. I think Ryuma's legend of dragon slaying above the capital will be repeated by Zoro and all the Wano will see it. Luffy has better chances of taking down BM than taking down Kaido but he will probably get his 5 mins against Kaido too.

Luffy did largely overcome his G4 time limit during the WCI arc. Even during the cracker fight it doesn't seem like luffy went through the bit with him being hakiless for 10 minutes after using his gear 4. I suppose things could have played out different (say, luffy voluntarily turning it off before he was spent) but it is still a dramatic improvement over the doflamingo bit. He did pass out against big mom when using gear 4 but.... then he was able to use it a lot against katakuri.

I could see zoro destroying the soldier army though there is also the consideration that overcoming the army is not enough to beat cracker. Cracker isn't durable but he is still skilled enough to jump at an enemy and attack. He did so a few times against gear 4 luffy... So even if zoro can easily cut the crackers, which I would think is somewhat of a stretch, that is still simply step one in beating cracker. Add to that, even luffy never achieved this. Luffy had gear 4 and nami to cancel out the cracker soldiers and even then luffy did not manage a single hit on cracker until the very end.

The part that does stick out to me regarding zoro's power post timeskip is that extending haki beyond his body is an advanced skill and zoro had it from the get go. Zoro turned out to be competent enough at this that he could extend haki beyond his body via his slashes (like when he harmed the snow logia, can't remember her name).

If even king can't push zoro to 100% it means that the only thing that the only people around who can are basically admiral or yonko level... I also don't think it's necessarily the case that zoro will fight king tbh. Maybe if king was shown specifically as a swordsman but oda hasn't exactly pushed that point. We have not seen the bulk of kaido's and wano's forces yet so perhaps whoever fights zoro still hasn't appeared. Though zoro is likely to get multiple enemies during the arc... even if not all fights happen on screen.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 2, 2020, Original Post Date: Mar 2, 2020 ---

The training matters, Luffy has gone again beasts while Zoro could have gone only against Mihawk himself. If you are equaling fighting wild beasts with fighting Mihawk, then I cant help you. Luffy has yet to fight an opponent who is in the same ballpark with Mihawk. Wild beasts were defeated easily by TS Luffy while Mihawk has always remained above Zoro, the progress cant possibly be the same.
Another thing why Luffy came back weaker than Zoro is because Zoro will go from having no challenge to defeating someone like King while Luffy's last 1vs1 was no other than Chinjao, for everything that came after he needed help.

Feats will speak for themselves, Zoro hasnt shown anything yet and casually has dwarfed G3 Luffy already.

We have seen that luffy trained with rayleigh at well though. That counts at least as much as training with mihawk... We know that for the final part of his training luffy was left alone but there is no guarantee that zoro spent the totality of his 2 years of training duking it out with mihawk.

 

[M3J]

Nami alone fried her with help of Zeus, in her weakened state granted but still.
Luffy, Sanji and Jinbe tried to punch through an iron balloon, they are at a disadvantage.
Zoro would cut her up.
It will be proven in this arc once he claims Kaido's head that Big Mom was not safe from him back in WCI.

Nami was still unable to stop Big Mom for long, Big Mom continued chasing after them. If it was that easy, then none of her crew and Bege would be saying that it's impossible to hurt Big Mom.

 

[jaymizzo]

I mean, Luffy, Jinbei, Zoro and Sanji are the SH main fighters. 3 of them were in WCI, but sure, Zoro was singled out not because he is the only one among them not in location, but because he is the stronketst