Discussion Zoro Discussion Thread

[nik87]

I mean, Luffy, Jinbei, Zoro and Sanji are the SH main fighters. 3 of them were in WCI, but sure, Zoro was singled out not because he is the only one among them not in location, but because he is the stronketst

He is deciding factor because he isnt trying to punch/kick but cut instead. Blunt damage without Haki flow isnt affecting her unless it is a powerful free hit.

Nami was still unable to stop Big Mom for long, Big Mom continued chasing after them. If it was that easy, then none of her crew and Bege would be saying that it's impossible to hurt Big Mom.

It is not impossible to hurt Big Mom, that is just a rumor. Barchio Bomber obviously affected her and still Zoro's damage inst blunt damage, it is different.
Things resisting punches dont necessarily resist cuts, shown in manga already.

We have seen that luffy trained with rayleigh at well though. That counts at least as much as training with mihawk... We know that for the final part of his training luffy was left alone but there is no guarantee that zoro spent the totality of his 2 years of training duking it out with mihawk.

He was trained by Rayleigh but he ended up fighting wild animals, that's not the case for Zoro, I am sure since baboons were defeated long before training even started. Going against wild beasts who are no match for post-TS Luffy =/= going against Mihawk who cannot be matched by both Wano Zoro or Luffy.
Well, considering that it was Perona who brought him to Sabaody, sounds like he came straight from Mihawk's place.

Luffy did largely overcome his G4 time limit during the WCI arc. Even during the cracker fight it doesn't seem like luffy went through the bit with him being hakiless for 10 minutes after using his gear 4. I suppose things could have played out different (say, luffy voluntarily turning it off before he was spent) but it is still a dramatic improvement over the doflamingo bit. He did pass out against big mom when using gear 4 but.... then he was able to use it a lot against katakuri.
I could see zoro destroying the soldier army though there is also the consideration that overcoming the army is not enough to beat cracker. Cracker isn't durable but he is still skilled enough to jump at an enemy and attack. He did so a few times against gear 4 luffy... So even if zoro can easily cut the crackers, which I would think is somewhat of a stretch, that is still simply step one in beating cracker. Add to that, even luffy never achieved this. Luffy had gear 4 and nami to cancel out the cracker soldiers and even then luffy did not manage a single hit on cracker until the very end.
The part that does stick out to me regarding zoro's power post timeskip is that extending haki beyond his body is an advanced skill and zoro had it from the get go. Zoro turned out to be competent enough at this that he could extend haki beyond his body via his slashes (like when he harmed the snow logia, can't remember her name).
If even king can't push zoro to 100% it means that the only thing that the only people around who can are basically admiral or yonko level... I also don't think it's necessarily the case that zoro will fight king tbh. Maybe if king was shown specifically as a swordsman but oda hasn't exactly pushed that point. We have not seen the bulk of kaido's and wano's forces yet so perhaps whoever fights zoro still hasn't appeared. Though zoro is likely to get multiple enemies during the arc... even if not all fights happen on screen.

He ran out of G4 mid-fight against Katakuri and had to run away, only survived that moment because of Brulee. Against Cracker, he had Nami's help who effectively stalled Cracker due to her command over the hommies and her rain making the biscuits chewable. Without Nami, he would have lost 100%.

Yes, Cracker can jump at the enemy but unlike Luffy who has to dodge since he cant take on the sword, all the Zoro has to do is to block. I dont think it is a stretch that Zoro can easily go through the biscuits, manga already has shown that what Luffy fails to break is easily cut by people below Zoro. Luffy never managed to land a hit on Cracker because he is simply bad match-up for him and has a time limit in only form that is able to do something against Cracker.

Yes, Zoro could use flow since Alabasta(tree leaves) and the scene with Enma confirms that he is pretty good at it. Sucking back in all the flow that Enma drew out shows that flow aint new to him. Even to coat the swords into Hardening you have to let it flow from the body into the sword, it is basic concept for swordsmen and other weapon users like Amazon Lilly archers, it only looks new for Luffy who never had a weapon in which he could let the haki flow into.

King can probably make the fight very hard but for different reasons, by preventing Zoro to dictate the tempo of the fight. If he deploys fire in his attacks that is bad for Zoro because as of now he cant deal with it effectively and needs to learn Kinemon's technique. There are also his wings in base form, he could swing them and release haki coated feathers which equals many projectiles, not easy to defend against unless u counter with one huge aoe. I think there are people under Admirals who can push Zoro to his best, perhaps Weevil who seems incredibly strong, Beckman who was hyped up, Kuma with a sound mind, Shiryu of the rain.

King was seen with what looks to be quite a sword, perhaps a meito, not generic swords like Queen's and he has that vibe of a Zoro opponent, similar to Mr1. It would surprise me if anyone else gets to fight King. My expectations are Kyoshiro for warm-up when he goes after Orochi, King as the main course and finisher against Kaido. Considering that he won't take on Kaido from the start and that Big Mom is also there, there is plenty of fish for everyone to get their 5 minutes.

 

[jaymizzo]

He is deciding factor because he isnt trying to punch/kick but cut instead. Blunt damage without Haki flow isnt affecting her unless it is a powerful free hit.

I mean, emotional turmoil being her only weakness has nothing to do with her being invulnerable. Its just the lack of Zoro that makes BM invulnerable.

You refer to the data books a lot, but Zoro being considered the second strongest seems to not register with you

 

[nik87]

You refer to the data books a lot, but Zoro being considered the second strongest seems to not register with you

Because there is clear contradiction back in Whiskey Peak and the answer to the question was never given.

 

[jaymizzo]

Because there is clear contradiction back in Whiskey Peak and the answer to the question was never given.

Does that contradiction make Zoro stronger than Luffy? But hey, Zoro can override BMs only weakness simply because.

 

[nik87]

Does that contradiction make Zoro stronger than Luffy? But hey, Zoro can override BMs only weakness simply because.

No, the contradiction makes them equal. Being stronger is my analysis and I was way off, the reality is possibly even more in Zoro's favor.
Zoro can injure Big Mom because he isnt trying to punch her but instead cut her. He said himself: There is nothing I cannot cut. Manga fact.

 

[M3J]

It is not impossible to hurt Big Mom, that is just a rumor. Barchio Bomber obviously affected her and still Zoro's damage inst blunt damage, it is different.
Things resisting punches dont necessarily resist cuts, shown in manga already.

This makes no sense if her own crew has seen her withstand damages.

 

[kkck]

No, the contradiction makes them equal. Being stronger is my analysis and I was way off, the reality is possibly even more in Zoro's favor.
Zoro can injure Big Mom because he isnt trying to punch her but instead cut her. He said himself: There is nothing I cannot cut. Manga fact.

Big mom's invulnerability extended beyond that. The plan IIRC was to shoot big mom with poisoned darts. But big mom could resist the piercing damage from that with no difficulty. Hence all the shenanigans the strawhats and co did to get to her. It's a safe bet that big mom can resist cuts pretty much as well as other types of damage unless it comes from someone in her own tier.

 

[Fox666]

It is not impossible to hurt Big Mom, that is just a rumor. Barchio Bomber obviously affected her and still Zoro's damage inst blunt damage, it is different.
Things resisting punches dont necessarily resist cuts, shown in manga already.

Queen is like the strongest guy you will find besides the Yonko, and the best he could do was "affect her". So it's more than just a rumor, there's practically nobody in the world who can hurt her

 

[jaymizzo]

No, the contradiction makes them equal. Being stronger is my analysis and I was way off, the reality is possibly even more in Zoro's favor.
Zoro can injure Big Mom because he isnt trying to punch her but instead cut her. He said himself: There is nothing I cannot cut. Manga fact.

No. Nothing in this Manga has ever indicated Luffy and Zoro being equals. That is your headcannon. Zoro is the second strongest SH. Nothing more.

He couldn't cut birdcage. Manga fucking fact.

 

[Pirate Queen]

No. Nothing in this Manga has ever indicated Luffy and Zoro being equals. That is your headcannon. Zoro is the second strongest SH. Nothing more.

He couldn't cut birdcage. Manga fucking fact.

Whoa whoa whoa! Zoro, A SWORDSMAN, didnt even TRY to cut the Birdacage! Didn't even attempt it! No panels shows it and fuck common sense. Mr. "There's nothing i can't cut" just used his sharp blades against the killer threads with just enough force NOT to cut them. See it was an excercise on not cutting at that point (Note the sarcasm)

 

[jaymizzo]

Whoa whoa whoa! Zoro, A SWORDSMAN, didnt even TRY to cut the Birdacage! Didn't even attempt it! No panels shows it and fuck common sense. Mr. "There's nothing i can't cut" just used his sharp blades against the killer threads with just enough force NOT to cut them. See it was an excercise on not cutting at that point (Note the sarcasm)

He was simply training his Haki when he clad his swords with it while not trying to cut birdcage. Our boi never misses an opportunity to exercise the no cutting part

 

[nik87]

This makes no sense if her own crew has seen her withstand damages.

It makes sense because her crew saw her withstand only crappy damage, the best they listed was canon balls afaik. The best we saw is lightning from Nami.
None of those are master swordsmen cutting abilities that have no equals when it comes to damaging force.

Big mom's invulnerability extended beyond that. The plan IIRC was to shoot big mom with poisoned darts. But big mom could resist the piercing damage from that with no difficulty. Hence all the shenanigans the strawhats and co did to get to her. It's a safe bet that big mom can resist cuts pretty much as well as other types of damage unless it comes from someone in her own tier.

Do you think Zoro's ability is so bad that he can't cut her up? Despite him saying that he can cut everything.

Queen is like the strongest guy you will find besides the Yonko, and the best he could do was "affect her". So it's more than just a rumor, there's practically nobody in the world who can hurt her

Queen is not really strong based on what he did to BM, he was heavy and it is still blunt damage. There are plenty people in the world who can hurt her.

No. Nothing in this Manga has ever indicated Luffy and Zoro being equals. That is your headcannon. Zoro is the second strongest SH. Nothing more.
He couldn't cut birdcage. Manga fucking fact.

You should stop throwing that around. Whiskey Peak is canon draw so kick that "ever" at least.
He never attempted to cut the Birdcage, that's a manga fact, not what you said that he couldnt do it. Big difference.

 

[jaymizzo]

He never attempted to cut the Birdcage, that's a manga fact, not what you said that he couldnt do it. Big difference.

The one thing killing hundred, Zoro, who can cut anything, thought, wait, let me clad my swords in Haki and not cut it, but try and push it back

Luffy, you better hurry, I can't hold on any longer (paraphrasing). Not, Luffy, if you dont hurry up, there is nothing i cant cut

 

[M3J]

It makes sense because her crew saw her withstand only crappy damage, the best they listed was canon balls afaik. The best we saw is lightning from Nami.
None of those are master swordsmen cutting abilities that have no equals when it comes to damaging force.

No it doesn't, King Moe Jr, especially when you're assuming they saw her withstand crappy damage. If the damages were weak, then they wouldn't be impressed by her defense.

 

[nik87]

The one thing killing hundred, Zoro, who can cut anything, thought, wait, let me clad my swords in Haki and not cut it, but try and push it back
Luffy, you better hurry, I can't hold on any longer (paraphrasing). Not, Luffy, if you dont hurry up, there is nothing i cant cut

Exactly like that. I still see you dont understand storytelling and what plot elements are. The very fact that it never occured anyone to even try cutting it says enough but to satisfy your headcanon you are pushing things contrary to manga evidence. The fact remains, no swordsman even thought of cutting it.

No it doesn't, King Moe Jr, especially when you're assuming they saw her withstand crappy damage. If the damages were weak, then they wouldn't be impressed by her defense.

It does make sense if you actually think about it. Damages were weak for Big Mom's standards, they were impressive for the likes of Bege.
Yonkos who can hurt each other havent seen each other in decades and even when they met they didnt land clean hits on each other to harm themselves.
No YC1's were trying to harm a Yonko that we know off, so yeah, crappy damage feats. Zoro's damage is not crappy.

 

[kkck]

Do you think Zoro's ability is so bad that he can't cut her up? Despite him saying that he can cut everything.

I don't think zoro's ability is bad at all. Big mom is just a monster. Kaido one shot gear 4 luffy and even then big mom went toe to toe with him.... without even having zeus available to her. Heck, a drunk kaido barely even felt luffy's punches.... its by no means a stretch that zoro can't cut either one (though his haki training with enma just might make a difference).

 

[jaymizzo]

Exactly like that. I still see you dont understand storytelling and what plot elements are. The very fact that it never occured anyone to even try cutting it says enough but to satisfy your headcanon you are pushing things contrary to manga evidence. The fact remains, no swordsman even thought of cutting it.

When Zoro cant cut something its plot element. But here you are saying he can cut anything... When the plot disputes that.

Okay.

 

[Pirate Queen]

When Zoro cant cut something its plot element. But here you are saying he can cut anything... When the plot disputes that.

Okay.

String bruh.... no swordsman thought to cut string



One of the most cut-able things in existance.

Lol, i can't breath, laughing too hard

 

[nik87]

When Zoro cant cut something its plot element. But here you are saying he can cut anything... When the plot disputes that.
Okay.

Well, show me Zoro trying to cut it. Can you?

 

[jaymizzo]

Well, show me Zoro trying to cut it. Can you?

You said Zoro can cut anything. The point is he didn't even try to cut it, while knowing he can cut anything. There is no need for anyone to try and prove he can't cut it simply because you rely on "show us him trying".

Zoro clad his swords with Haki but didn't think, oh, i can cut this. A meteor fell on bird cage and nothing happened to the strings but hey, if Zoro felt like cutting it, he would have done so, just thought it would be more dramatic to try and hold back a barrier that was killing people.

You're grasping at so many straws its unbelievable.