Discussion Zoro Discussion Thread

[Pirate Queen]

Figured you'd say that, and that may be a thing, but Jinbei isn't with the crew yet, and he'd probably offer different perspective. But Zoro was the only one who told Luffy what was what, and Luffy listened without an argument.

Your missing my point. Whether Jinbei is with the crew or not, he is a far better candidate as a righthand man for the PK than Zoro. And Zoro hasnt been the ONLY SH to give Luffy advice during important moments.

What Jinbei can't do with the muscle Zoro could do.. he can use diplomacy. He's far more experienced and just as strong.

Zoro is only a combatant on the Pirate Kings ship, thats it.. were as Jinbei is connected to the WG, FI, and well known throughout GL and brings more to the ship than Zoro ever could. Zoro is a glorified attack dog for Luffy. The WG doesn't see him as a threat while he is under Luffy's shadow.

Anyone saying Zoro is vital for Luffy to become PK, just has a soft spot for Zoro. He isn't needed.

,

 

[Shasha23]

Your missing my point. Whether Jinbei is with the crew or not, he is a far better candidate as a righthand man for the PK than Zoro.

What Jinbei can't do with the muscle Zoro could do.. he can use diplomacy. He's far more experienced and just as strong.

Zoro is only a combatant on the Pirate Kings ship, thats it.. were as Jinbei is connected to the WG, FI, and well known throughout GL and brings more to the ship than Zoro ever could. Zoro is a glorified attack dog for Luffy. The WG doesn't see him as a threat while he is under Luffy's shadow.

Anyone saying Zoro is vital for Luffy to become PK, just has a soft spit for Zoro. He isn't needed.

,

The story has already told you that out of all the strawhats Jimbe included Luffy only listens to Zoro without argument, each and every one of them can never tell Luffy what to do with exception to Zoro, so you saying Jinbe can step in is inaccurate since Luffy wont listen to him in the first place!

As i have said before the only important people on the ship are :
Captain - Luffy
Nav - Nami
Doc - Tony-kun
Shipright - Franuske

The rest are not important, but if we have to list the most relevant to Luffy reaching Laugh Tale :

Robin - obvious reasons
Jinbe - helmsman
Zoro - muscle and vice captain

The rest are just there so Luffy can enjoy his adventure in comfort and entertainment since they bring nothing to the table.

 

[Pirate Queen]

The story has already told you that out of all the strawhats Jimbe included Luffy only listens to Zoro without argument, each and every one of them can never tell Luffy what to do with exception to Zoro, so you saying Jinbe can step in is inaccurate since Luffy wont listen to him in the first place!

As i have said before the only important people on the ship are :
Captain - Luffy
Nav - Nami
Doc - Tony-kun
Shipright - Franuske

The rest are not important, but if we have to list the most relevant to Luffy reaching Laugh Tale :

Robin - obvious reasons
Jinbe - helmsman
Zoro - muscle and vice captain

The rest are just there so Luffy can enjoy his adventure in comfort and entertainment since they bring nothing to the table.

Bull.

And different points different strawhats have given Luffy advice that he's followed, mainly with the whole group coming to a decision.

"Luffy only listens to Zoro without arguement"

What a bunch of nonsense.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 11, 2020, Original Post Date: Mar 11, 2020 ---

Jinbei convinced Luffy to sit down with Bege and join together in an ASSASSIATION attempt on BM...

Luffy.... assassination.

Jinbei guided Luffy through that.

Whatever adive Zoro gives, Jinbei could give better advice

 

[Shasha23]

Bull.

And different points different strawhats have given Luffy advice that he's followed, mainly with the whole group coming to a decision.

"Luffy only listens to Zoro without arguement"

What a bunch of nonsense.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 11, 2020, Original Post Date: Mar 11, 2020 ---

Jinbei convinced Luffy to sit down with Bege and join together in an ASSASSIATION attempt on BM...

Luffy.... assassination.

Jinbei guided Luffy through that.

Whatever adive Zoro gives, Jinbei could give better advice

advice and telling someone what to do are 2 different things
No one other than Zoro has ever told Luffy what to do or how to run his crew, it has only ever been Zoro.

Jimbe didnt do that dont lie, Jinbe asked Luffy to hear Bege out he didnt convince him to team up with Bege.

Jimbe gives advice same as Nami, Sanji, Chopper and Robin have but Zoro is different as he will calls out Luffy when he is doing something unbecoming of a captain, and as of this point no one has ever than that other than him.

 

[Pirate Queen]

advice and telling someone what to do are 2 different things
No one other than Zoro has ever told Luffy what to do or how to run his crew, it has only ever been Zoro.

Jimbe didnt do that dont lie, Jinbe asked Luffy to hear Bege out he didnt convince him to team up with Bege.

Jimbe gives advice same as Nami, Sanji, Chopper and Robin have but Zoro is different as he will calls out Luffy when he is doing something unbecoming of a captain, and as of this point no one has ever than that other than him.

That such a damned lie lol

 

[Shasha23]

That such a damned lie lol

Showing people their mistakes is a thankless job these days

 

[Pirate Queen]

L

Showing people their mistakes is a thankless job these days

Thankfully everyone on Luffy's crew gives advice to Luffy so that those mistakes are avoided... and not just Zoro.

 

[Shasha23]

Thankfully everyone on Luffy's crew gives advice to Luffy so that those mistakes are avoided... and not just Zoro.

Thankfully Zoro is always there to stop Luffy from taking bad advice

 

[M3J]

Your missing my point. Whether Jinbei is with the crew or not, he is a far better candidate as a righthand man for the PK than Zoro. And Zoro hasnt been the ONLY SH to give Luffy advice during important moments.

What Jinbei can't do with the muscle Zoro could do.. he can use diplomacy. He's far more experienced and just as strong.

Zoro is only a combatant on the Pirate Kings ship, thats it.. were as Jinbei is connected to the WG, FI, and well known throughout GL and brings more to the ship than Zoro ever could. Zoro is a glorified attack dog for Luffy. The WG doesn't see him as a threat while he is under Luffy's shadow.

Anyone saying Zoro is vital for Luffy to become PK, just has a soft spot for Zoro. He isn't needed.

,

Jinbei hasn't talked common sense to Luffy like Zoro has other than as part of a plan. Would Jinbei have told Luffy to not take Usopp back until he apologized, threatened to leave if he did take back Usopp without a condition? Would Jinbei have told Luffy to be more careful and be less reckless? ZOro wasn't the first Straw Hat to say that, as far as I remember, but Luffy listened to Zoro. THe others were telling Luffy to accept Usopp back into the ship if he asked, except for Zoro.

If anything, I can see Jinbei being able to get Luffy to stick to the plan as much as possible, as he did on FI and WCI and even give Luffy hope like he did on Amazon Lily, but can he be harsh when required? Zoro had no problem doing that. Hell, Luffy had no problem fighting Jinbei over a disagreement two times, but the only time he fought Zoro was when he misunderstood Zoro knocking out the people of Whiskey Peak.

Plus, might be a stretch to say, but I think out of all the STraw Hats, Zoro understands Luffy the best.

And yes, Zoro is a combatant, but that's a vital role on a ship that'll have many enemies and be targeted by pirates, Marines, and etc. Zoro's role is also a clutch performer/savior. Besides, what other role did you expect with a swordsman who wants to be the best swordsman? I'd say Brook would be more useless as he's not as an accomplished fighter and is just a musician, even though he's a great spy.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Jinbei hasn't talked common sense to Luffy like Zoro has other than as part of a plan. Would Jinbei have told Luffy to not take Usopp back until he apologized, threatened to leave if he did take back Usopp without a condition? Would Jinbei have told Luffy to be more careful and be less reckless? ZOro wasn't the first Straw Hat to say that, as far as I remember, but Luffy listened to Zoro. THe others were telling Luffy to accept Usopp back into the ship if he asked, except for Zoro.

If anything, I can see Jinbei being able to get Luffy to stick to the plan as much as possible, as he did on FI and WCI and even give Luffy hope like he did on Amazon Lily, but can he be harsh when required? Zoro had no problem doing that. Hell, Luffy had no problem fighting Jinbei over a disagreement two times, but the only time he fought Zoro was when he misunderstood Zoro knocking out the people of Whiskey Peak.

Plus, might be a stretch to say, but I think out of all the STraw Hats, Zoro understands Luffy the best.

And yes, Zoro is a combatant, but that's a vital role on a ship that'll have many enemies and be targeted by pirates, Marines, and etc. Zoro's role is also a clutch performer/savior. Besides, what other role did you expect with a swordsman who wants to be the best swordsman? I'd say Brook would be more useless as he's not as an accomplished fighter and is just a musician, even though he's a great spy.

It not a vital role on a ship where there are multiple combatants. He already has a fleet.... and Sanji is far more "clutch" than Zoro has ever been

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 11, 2020, Original Post Date: Mar 11, 2020 ---

Thankfully Zoro is always there to stop Luffy from taking bad advice

Another factually untrue statement. Man your really struggling today.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 11, 2020 ---

Another thing to note, Luffy has been away from Zoro far longer than he has been with him and he did just fine getting advice from outside sources

 

[M3J]

The ship has Luffy and Sanji, yet it's usually Zoro who's saving the others, usually Nami. Makes him clutch enough, especially when he got up to face Kuma and survived.

What kind of advice from outside sources? As far as I know, it was mostly Zoro who gave him advice on how to be a better captain.

 

[Shasha23]

Another factually untrue statement. Man your really struggling today.

Another thing to note, Luffy has been away from Zoro far longer than he has been with him and he did just fine getting advice from outside sources

If you think so

Advice from the former first mate of the pirate king is obviously great advice

 

[Pirate Queen]

The ship has Luffy and Sanji, yet it's usually Zoro who's saving the others, usually Nami. Makes him clutch enough, especially when he got up to face Kuma and survived.

What kind of advice from outside sources? As far as I know, it was mostly Zoro who gave him advice on how to be a better captain.

Sanji has saved the entire crew on multiple occasions. Often working behind the scene and coming in "clutch" whereas Zoro doesnt. Unless you can you provide sources? Only thing i can think of is against Kuma and Sanji was just as willing to throw his life away for Luffy's sake.

As i said:Jinbei, Rayliegh, other SH's. Luffy has been away from Zoro far longer than he has been with him and Luffy does JUST FINE.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 11, 2020, Original Post Date: Mar 11, 2020 ---

Outside sources as in outside of Zoro.

 

[M3J]

Sanji has saved the entire crew on multiple occasions. Often working behind the scene and coming in "clutch" whereas Zoro doesnt. Unless you can you provide sources? Only thing i can think of is against Kuma and Sanji was just as willing to throw his life away for Luffy's sake.

As i said:Jinbei, Rayliegh, other SH's. Luffy has been away from Zoro far longer than he has been with him and Luffy does JUST FINE.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 11, 2020, Original Post Date: Mar 11, 2020 ---

Outside sources as in outside of Zoro.

He's saved the entire crew while Zoro has saved the crew one-on-one. Nami would have been killed by Das Bones and the other woman if Zoro didn't arrive, for example, or Brook would have been killed or something by Ryuuma without Zoro. Or like how Nami and the others would have probably been killed or captured by Jack's crew if Sanji wasn't there.

As I said, Jinbei has not given Luffy advice on hard decisions to make. Rayleigh is not part of the crew and as far as I know, only advised Luffy he has to get stronger before meeting up with the crew. And as per my last email, the other Straw Hats haven't given Luffy advice on hard decisions, and despite admonishment on his behavior didn't change it until Zoro told him to. How would the Straw Hats have done if Luffy took back Usopp immediately? WOuld Usopp have taken this for granted and leave again or use that as a threat if Luffy didn't agree with him?

But what kind of advice from outside source? The only one I can think of is Rayleigh telling Luffy to get stronger.

 

[Pirate Queen]

He's saved the entire crew while Zoro has saved the crew one-on-one. Nami would have been killed by Das Bones and the other woman if Zoro didn't arrive, for example, or Brook would have been killed or something by Ryuuma without Zoro. Or like how Nami and the others would have probably been killed or captured by Jack's crew if Sanji wasn't there.

As I said, Jinbei has not given Luffy advice on hard decisions to make. Rayleigh is not part of the crew and as far as I know, only advised Luffy he has to get stronger before meeting up with the crew. And as per my last email, the other Straw Hats haven't given Luffy advice on hard decisions, and despite admonishment on his behavior didn't change it until Zoro told him to. How would the Straw Hats have done if Luffy took back Usopp immediately? WOuld Usopp have taken this for granted and leave again or use that as a threat if Luffy didn't agree with him?

But what kind of advice from outside source? The only one I can think of is Rayleigh telling Luffy to get stronger.

Listen your just going around in circles at this
point. Zoro has not given a single shred of advice that Jinbei wouldnt give. Luffy takes advice from all present parties when the situation calls for it, be it Jinbei or Nami or Sanji or Zoro. Zoro doesnt have the monopoly on giving Luffy advice on "hard decisions" (which is foolish to say because advise Luffy gets is usually very important so most of the advice he gets is about a "hard decision")

Your trying to say Zoro's advice is somehow more important than all other bits of advice Luffy gets and thats wrong. You know its wrong.

The situation you keep bringing up with Ussop, reread the chapter. Luffy wasnt exactly kicking and screaming that Zoro was wrong. He didnt seem to agree, but that doesnt mean he was dead against Zoro. Sanji was also saying Zoro is right for once meaning this wasnt a Zoro only issue (I had to reread the chapter to be sure) Luffy knew Zoro was right. So in the end, Luffy TOOK ADVICE and made the decision to agree with Zoro. It was great advice and Luffy should have taken it, but to say no one else could give Luffy advice in that situation is wrong.

So. Per my last email, Zoro is a nonessential member of the crew because others can easily give likeminded advice (and actually have) and all he is at this point is a combatant that could be replaced by Jinbei and Luffy could just as easily become PK without him.

 

[M3J]

Because you keep repeating the same points that I countered. No one told him to not accept Usopp until he really apologized and showed remorse, Zoro did and explained why.

I didn't say his advice was more important, but that he does have a role in giving Luffy and even others hard pills to swallow. Don't put words in my mouth. You know it's wrong to reduce Zoro to the most useless of the Straw Hats, but you still do it anyway, whereas Zoro has actually been the only voice of reason.

The chapter as far as I recall shows Sanji telling Luffy to either get Usopp back or being quiet, and it wasn't until Zoro said that Usopp had to pay for what he said that Sanji agreed.

 

[afromarco005]

Discussion - Luffy and Zoro

Why are you? You make wild claims with no proof and keep dragging this on for no reason, until Luffy shows his COA has improved vs an actual person of note, his COA will be lower than Zoro's. A rock and a tree will never be as resilient and durable as a person, you bringing up those useless...

mangahelpers.com

Gunna put this here since @goldb might lock the thread if this continues and id rather not detract from a zoro thread.

Im starting to sound like a Zoro hater and that isn't the case.

I have always maintained Zoro is going to be Yonko tier without a doubt. My only ever issue with Zoro is that a very very small fraction of Zoro fans think he is above Luffy and it is just outlandishly false and their reasons are even more outlandish.

Zoro is not on the radar. Wano is not his arc, it is the arc were he is 2nd fiddle to Luffy defeating a Yonko Alliance. That is the harsh reality.

If wano the country full of swordsmen is not zoro's arc then when will it ever be his arc?

 

[sir_rocky]

As i said, Luffy has many combatants in his crew and Jinbei is just as good of a fighter as Zoro is. Your making it seem like Zoro is irreplacable because of his strength and it isn't true.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 10, 2020 ---

Yes, i think that Zoro is irreplaceable because of his strength. Luffy needs both Zoro and Jimbe, exchanging one for the other is not an option. In fights against Yonkos, Marine admirals and WG every crew member of their strength is irreplaceable.

IMHO you can't say that, for example, a navigator is more important than a fighter. They have different roles that are equally important, especially in world of One Piece where they just go from fight to fight and their opponents are only getting stronger.

And yes, Luffy has many combatants but who except for Jimbe and Sanji is even close to Zoro and, if not now then in the near future, has a chance of fighting a yonko commander or an admiral?

 

[Pirate Queen]

Because you keep repeating the same points that I countered. No one told him to not accept Usopp until he really apologized and showed remorse, Zoro did and explained why.

I didn't say his advice was more important, but that he does have a role in giving Luffy and even others hard pills to swallow. Don't put words in my mouth. You know it's wrong to reduce Zoro to the most useless of the Straw Hats, but you still do it anyway, whereas Zoro has actually been the only voice of reason.

The chapter as far as I recall shows Sanji telling Luffy to either get Usopp back or being quiet, and it wasn't until Zoro said that Usopp had to pay for what he said that Sanji agreed.

You didnt counter a single point. Nothing Zoro did cant be done by Jinbei. Zoro isnt the only voice of reason. Amd i didnt put words in your mouth, you are implying somehow Zoro's advice is somehow more important than other advice Luffy could get or you wouldnt be pushing this so hard. Of all the crew. Zoro role is the least needed for Luffy to become PK.

I didnt say Zoro was useless. I ssid he was nonessential to Luffy becoming PK and that is true.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 11, 2020, Original Post Date: Mar 11, 2020 ---

Yes, i think that Zoro is irreplaceable because of his strength. Luffy needs both Zoro and Jimbe, exchanging one for the other is not an option. In fights against Yonkos, Marine admirals and WG every crew member of their strength is irreplaceable.

IMHO you can't say that, for example, a navigator is more important than a fighter. They have different roles that are equally important, especially in world of One Piece where they just go from fight to fight and their opponents are only getting stronger.

And yes, Luffy has many combatants but who except for Jimbe and Sanji is even close to Zoro and, if not now then in the near future, has a chance of fighting a yonko commander or an admiral?

Im saying replace Jinbei with Zoro and the structure of the Strawhats dont change. They are not in worse shape without Zoro.
Everything you say is true except for that Zoro IS replaceable.

Brook is probably just as replaceable tho

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 11, 2020 ---

If wano the country full of swordsmen is not zoro's arc then when will it ever be his arc?

Your right. I may have miscommented. He might be the second most important strawhat this arc. But is still going to easily be outshined by Luffy. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

 

[M3J]

You didnt counter a single point. Nothing Zoro did cant be done by Jinbei. Zoro isnt the only voice of reason. Amd i didnt put words in your mouth, you are implying somehow Zoro's advice is somehow more important than other advice Luffy could get or you wouldnt be pushing this so hard. Of all the crew. Zoro role is the least needed for Luffy to become PK.

I didnt say Zoro was useless. I ssid he was nonessential to Luffy becoming PK and that is true.

Crikey, show me when a Straw Hat made Luffy see reason in face of difficult decisions/his behavior.

No I'm not, and I never did. I said he's valuable because he offers needed advice, not just combat. Other than that, I can't think of another role Zoro serves without referring to combat, which includes saving Straw Hats in ones or twos.


I reread your post and realized that but thought they kinda meant the same thing as well so I didn't fix it. But his presence is essential to Luffy becoming the Pirate King, even if his role out of combat isn't that essential.