Discussion Zoro Discussion Thread

[Pirate Queen]

Crikey, show me when a Straw Hat made Luffy see reason in face of difficult decisions/his behavior.

No I'm not, and I never did. I said he's valuable because he offers needed advice, not just combat. Other than that, I can't think of another role Zoro serves without referring to combat, which includes saving Straw Hats in ones or twos.


I reread your post and realized that but thought they kinda meant the same thing as well so I didn't fix it. But his presence is essential to Luffy becoming the Pirate King, even if his role out of combat isn't that essential.

And this is just a small instant of others making Luffy see reason where Luffy just wanted to an idiot. There are countless more example, but you just needed one.

And Zoro's presence being needed to be PK is preferred NOT essential. No where is it shown you need a highly skilled Swordsman in your crew to be PK. And in fact, more evidence shows that Strength is not a key to becoming PK. It just so happens during the process you get so strong you reach a PK's level of strength.

Luffy has a fleet and enough combatants in his crew where Zoro is not needed in the slightest.

It is because we have all grown to love Zoro and he is core crew member that we WANT him to be needed, but is role isnt.

If Robin could navigate just as well as Nami, Nami would be NONESSENTIAL because her role could easily be replaced by someone else. That isnt the case.

Zoro is only a combatant, but Luffy has 2 more fighters of equal caliber to take his place which is why WCI wasn't an immediate death sentence for the crew, BECAUSE JINBEI was an equivelent replacement for Zoro who was absent. In fact its fair to say without Jinbei/Zoro. The crew would have been easily wiped out by the BMP. If Zoro was there and Jinbei wasnt, Zoro would have filled the role of attacking BM and probably would have performed just as well as Jinbei. Only Kinbei also had a second ESSENTIAL role of helmsmen that saved them on top of his combat prowess... Zoro doesn't have that type of skill.

So again, what makes Zoro ESSENTIAL to Luffy becoming PK?

Its not advice and its not combat prowess... so what?

 

[Shasha23]

Yet another example of Jinbe making a suggestion, Zoro would not have asked Luffy anything he would have told him what was what.

You seem to fail to realize something Lexus-chan, none of the strawhats have ever and i repeat have ever changed Luffy's mind on something when he has already made his mind up, all of them give him suggestions and give advice and most of the time Luffy doesnt listen to them, but there has never been a time when Luffy has even failed to listen to what Zoro has said and take it to heart, not even once.

While i agree that to be PK, Luffy needs Nami, Chopper, Franky and Robin more than anyone, but to say Zoro is the least needed is just plain wrong since the most redundant persons in the crew are Brook then Usopp then Sanji since they are just in the crew to make Luffy's journey more comfortable nothing more

 

[Holt]

This is quite an interesting discussion. Zoro doesn't have a clear-cut role in terms of the ship, but I think frankly, Zoro functions as the first-mate and everyone on the crew knows that, even though he and Sanji butt heads. Jinbei cannot fill that role. The crew do not have enough connection to him for that. Yes they will definitely respect him as a pirate and an established fighter, but he simply cannot replace Zoro's role. Not anytime soon tbh. Even if he did, I'd say the SHs will default to listening to Sanji. You'd have a case where if Luffy was absent, Jinbei makes a suggestion and the other SHs will look to Sanji (assuming Zoro is absent) for comment. Zoro is the unofficial first mate of the Strawhats. This is a vital position in itself. If Luffy isn't around, when the SHs are not goofing around, Zoro will take command, same as Sanji takes command if Zoro isn't around. It's not simply a matter of strength. There's an innate respect for Zoro that you don't simply get by tossing another strong pirate on the ship.

 

[Pirate Queen]

This is quite an interesting discussion. Zoro doesn't have a clear-cut role in terms of the ship, but I think frankly, Zoro functions as the first-mate and everyone on the crew knows that, even though he and Sanji butt heads. Jinbei cannot fill that role. The crew do not have enough connection to him for that. Yes they will definitely respect him as a pirate and an established fighter, but he simply cannot replace Zoro's role. Not anytime soon tbh. Even if he did, I'd say the SHs will default to listening to Sanji. You'd have a case where if Luffy was absent, Jinbei makes a suggestion and the other SHs will look to Sanji (assuming Zoro is absent) for comment. Zoro is the unofficial first mate of the Strawhats. This is a vital position in itself. If Luffy isn't around, when the SHs are not goofing around, Zoro will take command, same as Sanji takes command if Zoro isn't around. It's not simply a matter of strength. There's an innate respect for Zoro that you don't simply get by tossing another strong pirate on the ship.

I agreee with everything your saying, but Jinbei is not just another strong pirate.

He is a former shichibukai who has garnered respect from enemies and allies alike. He's far more respected in the World than Zoro, is far more experienced, and Luffy does respect him. He is a former Captain who understands the burden of leadership far better than Zoro ever could because Zoro has only ever been a first mate. First hand experience trumps that without question. Jinbei can very easily fill the role of a firstmate for the future Pirate King.

And as i said before. Jinbei and Zoro are more than likely equal combatwise.

Put Zoro and Jinbei side by side and you would be hard pressed to find anyreason to put Zoro over Jinbei. Just pretend Zoro and Jinbei aren't well liked and chose based on merit alone... Jinbei far and away eclipses Zoro.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 12, 2020, Original Post Date: Mar 12, 2020 ---

Yet another example of Jinbe making a suggestion, Zoro would not have asked Luffy anything he would have told him what was what.

You seem to fail to realize something Lexus-chan, none of the strawhats have ever and i repeat have ever changed Luffy's mind on something when he has already made his mind up, all of them give him suggestions and give advice and most of the time Luffy doesnt listen to them, but there has never been a time when Luffy has even failed to listen to what Zoro has said and take it to heart, not even once.

This is just factually inaccurate. The only reason Luffy listened to Zoro about Ussop is because Zoro threatened to leave the crew as well! Luffy was gunna lose someone regardless of his choice.

When the chips are down Luffy listens to reason and those who give solid advice, not just from Zoro. I have proved this already.

I understand just fine. You don't understand the difference between essential and non-essential.

 

[Holt]

I agreee with everything your saying, but Jinbei is not just another strong pirate.

He is a former shichibukai who has garnered respect from enemies and allies alike. He's far more respected in the World than Zoro, is far more experienced, and Luffy does respect him. He is a former Captain who understands the burden of leadership far better than Zoro ever could because Zoro has only ever been a first mate. First hand experience trumps that without question. Jinbei can very easily fill the role of a firstmate for the future Pirate King.

And as i said before. Jinbei and Zoro are more than likely equal combatwise.

Put Zoro and Jinbei side by side and you would be hard pressed to find anyreason to put Zoro over Jinbei. Just pretend Zoro and Jinbei aren't well liked and chose based on merit alone... Jinbei far and away eclipses Zoro.

Yes I do agree with Jinbei being renowned, but the point is, on the Strawhat ship, he is just another pirate. Will the Strawhats really default to him? If he and Zoro were on opposite sides, the SHPs willl pick Zoro any day. It's possible Jinbei gets to that level in time, but the trust the strawhats have in Zoro is due to years of accumulated respect. Btw, I still would choose Zoro over Jinbei. Jinbei is a good, calm voice of reason, but he feels like just another Sanji. He doesn't seem like someone that can be ruthless enough if the situation demands (imo). I wouldn't exactly put his experience over Zoro though. Sure he is a former captain, but was his crew anything outstanding or diverse (without him)? The SHPs adventure in their few active year already trumps almost every other crew barring yonko. They have been everywhere and gone against pretty much every force.

The Strawhats had Luffy and Zoro in the worst gen. Most even thought Zoro was the captain. We know Zoro also knows how to make hard calls (standing firm on Usopp and basically talking down everyone else). Zoro is as calm headed as Jinbei. Sacrifice-wise, any of the strawhats will put their life on the line for the others and double that for Luffy. Jinbei has all the qualifications of the firstmate of course, except that of innate acceptance by the strawhats. They will respect his strength and abilities definitely, but it's another case entirely to accept him as No. 2. That's something you build over time, no matter how strong you are. Essentially, it will take Jinbei time to build that (and he will still likely lose out to Sanji). The exception is if Luffy officially names his so but we know Luffy won't do anything of the sort.

Zoro has more relationship with the crew and Luffy than Jinbei. That's why Zoro will be picked over him (even by the strawhats). Jinbei is yet to have a proper adventure with the crew in fact.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 12, 2020, Original Post Date: Mar 12, 2020 ---

I sort of understand you saying Zoro isn't essential because he doesn't have a ship-specific role. However, if you consider the captain essential, then the first-mate is too. And if you consider the captain as someone that isn't easily replaced, then the same goes for the first-mate. Zoro may not play a role in the ship affairs while traveling, but he is definitely essential and the SHPs will pick Zoro over Jinbei any day

 

[Pirate Queen]

Yes I do agree with Jinbei being renowned, but the point is, on the Strawhat ship, he is just another pirate. Will the Strawhats really default to him? If he and Zoro were on opposite sides, the SHPs willl pick Zoro any day. It's possible Jinbei gets to that level in time, but the trust the strawhats have in Zoro is due to years of accumulated respect. Btw, I still would choose Zoro over Jinbei. Jinbei is a good, calm voice of reason, but he feels like just another Sanji. He doesn't seem like someone that can be ruthless enough if the situation demands (imo). I wouldn't exactly put his experience over Zoro though. Sure he is a former captain, but was his crew anything outstanding or diverse (without him)? The SHPs adventure in their few active year already trumps almost every other crew barring yonko. They have been everywhere and gone against pretty much every force.

The Strawhats had Luffy and Zoro in the worst gen. Most even thought Zoro was the captain. We know Zoro also knows how to make hard calls (standing firm on Usopp and basically talking down everyone else). Zoro is as calm headed as Jinbei. Sacrifice-wise, any of the strawhats will put their life on the line for the others and double that for Luffy. Jinbei has all the qualifications of the firstmate of course, except that of innate acceptance by the strawhats. They will respect his strength and abilities definitely, but it's another case entirely to accept him as No. 2. That's something you build over time, no matter how strong you are. Essentially, it will take Jinbei time to build that (and he will still likely lose out to Sanji). The exception is if Luffy officially names his so but we know Luffy won't do anything of the sort.

Zoro has more relationship with the crew and Luffy than Jinbei. That's why Zoro will be picked over him (even by the strawhats). Jinbei is yet to have a proper adventure with the crew in fact.

Listen, i think im not making myself clear enough.... replace Zoro with Jinbei from the beginning. The qualities Zoro possess: strength, peudoleadership, the ability to offer Luffy advice... all those qualities Jinbei poessess. And on top of that Jinbei is an amazing helmsman.

I've throwing around the word essential since this discussion started so im going back

Nami is ESSENTIAL because she is a navigator. Luffy cannot become PK without a navigator

Robin is ESSENTIAL because she can decypher Poneglypphs. Luffy cannot become PK without her.

Chopper is ESSENTIAL because of his medical expertise. Luffy cannot become PK without him.

Franky is ESSENTIAL because he fixes the ship. LUffy cannot become PK without a shipwright.

Sanji is ESSENTIAL because he is a world class chef who knows the dangers of eating mysterious food and can now prepare energy food. Luffy cannot become PK without a chef.

Ussop is ESSENTIAL because of his ability to look at things from a distance, combat and noncombat (and was a temporary shipwright before Franky). Luffy cannit become PK without a Sniper.

Brook is NON-ESSENTIAL because he isn't the best combatant (can be useful) and is a musician. Luffy considers a musician mandatory for his crew, but Brook isnt NEEDED for Luffy to become PK.

Now...

Zoro is NON-ESSENTIAL because all he is on the crew is a combatant. He doesnt have a dual role. He is the first mate, but like you said Jinbei and Sanji have taken the role at different times. He offers advice to Luffy, but so do the others when times call for it. Zoro ISN'T NEEDED for Luffy to become PK. We have 2 others on the crew that can easily fill his role.

Now there was confusion and M3J thought i was saying Zoro is useless. That is NOT what im saying. Zoro is 100% useful, his feat on Thriller Bark speaks to that. He is courageous above everyone in the crew and is loyal to a fault. He is a great friend and ally and god have mercy on your soul if you harm his nakama and make them cry.... but he isn't needed on a crew for the captain to be PK.

Hell, Jinbei also sacrificed his life to protect Luffy from Akainu burning a hole through him

Jinbei is every bit as courageous as Zoro and just as willing to sacrifice his life to his captain, he has a triple role as helmsman, combatant, and advice giver to Luffy.

Zoro can be both useful AND non-essential. The 2 arent mutually exclusive.

 

[Shasha23]

This is just factually inaccurate. The only reason Luffy listened to Zoro about Ussop is because Zoro threatened to leave the crew as well! Luffy was gunna lose someone regardless of his choice.

When the chips are down Luffy listens to reason and those who give solid advice, not just from Zoro. I have proved this already.

I understand just fine. You don't understand the difference between essential and non-essential.

We will never see eye to eye on this, since you seem to believe suggestions and advice that Luffy rarely ever listens to is the same as him always taking Zoro's words seriously, we have already seen Luffy just ignore advice from his crew but he has never ignored anything Zoro says to him.

I have already given you my hierarchy on what is essential and what isnt and have already pointed out to you that the reason Zoro is essential for the crew to function, and pointed out why Jinbe cant feel that role since Luffy doesnt listen to him nor has he ever tried to make Luffy listen but has only ever given Luffy advice and suggestions.

If the captain(Luffy) wasn't aiming for PK then someone like Zoro wouldn't be needed since his role in fighting and forcing Luffy to take things seriously but since they are aiming for One Piece you have to factor that in!

 

[Pirate Queen]

We will never see eye to eye on this, since you seem to believe suggestions and advice that Luffy rarely ever listens to is the same as him always taking Zoro's words seriously, we have already seen Luffy just ignore advice from his crew but he has never ignored anything Zoro says to him.

I have already given you my hierarchy on what is essential and what isnt and have already pointed out to you that the reason Zoro is essential for the crew to function, and pointed out why Jinbe cant feel that role since Luffy doesnt listen to him nor has he ever tried to make Luffy listen but has only ever given Luffy advice and suggestions.

If the captain(Luffy) wasn't aiming for PK then someone like Zoro wouldn't be needed since his role in fighting and forcing Luffy to take things seriously but since they are aiming for One Piece you have to factor that in!

The crew has functioned well without Zoro before. What your saying and what happens in the manga are 2 different things pal. Its not that Luffy never listens, it depends kn the severity of the discussion at hand.

He has listened to and heeded Jinbei, Law, Sanji, Robin, Nami, Zoro, Rayliegh and many others depending on the seriousnes of the topic.

Your idea that Luffy rarely ever listens is NOT backed up by the manga. Its just not.

 

[Holt]

Listen, i think im not making myself clear enough.... replace Zoro with Jinbei from the beginning. The qualities Zoro possess: strength, peudoleadership, the ability to offer Luffy advice... all those qualities Jinbei poessess. And on top of that Jinbei is an amazing helmsman.

I've throwing around the word essential since this discussion started so im going back

Nami is ESSENTIAL because she is a navigator. Luffy cannot become PK without a navigator

Robin is ESSENTIAL because she can decypher Poneglypphs. Luffy cannot become PK without her.

Chopper is ESSENTIAL because of his medical expertise. Luffy cannot become PK without him.

Franky is ESSENTIAL because he fixes the ship. LUffy cannot become PK without a shipwright.

Sanji is ESSENTIAL because he is a world class chef who knows the dangers of eating mysterious food and can now prepare energy food. Luffy cannot become PK without a chef.

Ussop is ESSENTIAL because of his ability to look at things from a distance, combat and noncombat (and was a temporary shipwright before Franky). Luffy cannit become PK without a Sniper.

Brook is NON-ESSENTIAL because he isn't the best combatant (can be useful) and is a musician. Luffy considers a musician mandatory for his crew, but Brook isnt NEEDED for Luffy to become PK.

Now...

Zoro is NON-ESSENTIAL because all he is on the crew is a combatant. He doesnt have a dual role. He is the first mate, but like you said Jinbei and Sanji have taken the role at different times. He offers advice to Luffy, but so do the others when times call for it. Zoro ISN'T NEEDED for Luffy to become PK. We have 2 others on the crew that can easily fill his role.

Now there was confusion and M3J thought i was saying Zoro is useless. That is NOT what im saying. Zoro is 100% useful, his feat on Thriller Bark speaks to that. He is courageous above everyone in the crew and is loyal to a fault. He is a great friend and ally and god have mercy on your soul if you harm his nakama and make them cry.... but he isn't needed on a crew for the captain to be PK.

Hell, Jinbei also sacrificed his life to protect Luffy from Akainu burning a hole through him

Jinbei is every bit as courageous as Zoro and just as willing to sacrifice his life to his captain, he has a triple role as helmsman, combatant, and advice giver to Luffy.

Zoro can be both useful AND non-essential. The 2 arent mutually exclusive.

Indeed, and I know Jinbei sacrificed himself but any strawhat would have done the same.

I get you point now. Replacing from the beginning does make a lot of difference, however, you can say the same from pretty much every other person. In that case, the only truly irreplaceable person is Robin because of her ability to read poneglyphs. There can always be replacement for the other roles. It just so happened that Luffy met them and took them in. What makes them different from other pirates that can potentially serve the same role is now their relationship and individual dreams. Taking that away from Zoro is unfair. If we find another navigator for example, then of course Nami can be replaced etc. They have also grown tremendously due to adventures they have had on the Crew. None of them were anything remotely close to what they are now compared to when they joined.

Your next point would likely be that we haven't seen alternatives to the other roles that are ready or about to join the crew right now which is a fair point. However Jinbei didn't join from the start. Using 'if he did' also gives leeway to say 'if there was another doctor eg law' etc. At the end of the day, he didn't join from the start. However if he did, I would agree that he can function like Zoro but I still say he's soft. He doesn't seem someone that would have insisted on usopp like Zoro did. This is of course assuming he joined before Zoro

 

[Pirate Queen]

Indeed, and I know Jinbei sacrificed himself but any strawhat would have done the same.

I get you point now. Replacing from the beginning does make a lot of difference, however, you can say the same from pretty much every other person. In that case, the only truly irreplaceable person is Robin because of her ability to read poneglyphs. There can always be replacement for the other roles. It just so happened that Luffy met them and took them in. What makes them different from other pirates that can potentially serve the same role is now their relationship and individual dreams. Taking that away from Zoro is unfair. If we find another navigator for example, then of course Nami can be replaced etc. They have also grown tremendously due to adventures they have had on the Crew. None of them were anything remotely close to what they are now compared to when they joined.

Your next point would likely be that we haven't seen alternatives to the other roles that are ready or about to join the crew right now which is a fair point. However Jinbei didn't join from the start. Using 'if he did' also gives leeway to say 'if there was another doctor eg law' etc. At the end of the day, he didn't join from the start. However if he did, I would agree that he can function like Zoro but I still say he's soft. He doesn't seem someone that would have insisted on usopp like Zoro did. This is of course assuming he joined before Zoro

Yes i can see what you mean with the ussop situation and with the alternate roles. Well said.

I can definitely see Jinbe being more lenient than Zoro in matters such as those presented in the manga.

 

[Shasha23]

The crew has functioned well without Zoro before. What your saying and what happens in the manga are 2 different things pal. Its not that Luffy never listens, it depends kn the severity of the discussion at hand.

He has listened to and heeded Jinbei, Law, Sanji, Robin, Nami, Zoro, Rayliegh and many others depending on the seriousnes of the topic.

Your idea that Luffy rarely ever listens is NOT backed up by the manga. Its just not.

Luffy listens to only what he wants to hear nothing more nothing less, name one time when anyone but Zoro made Luffy take something seriously and stop and think before he acts?

He listened to their suggestions, they didnt tell him what to do, why cant you understand something this simple

HUH his crew has even said he doesnt listen, Jinbe was shocked that Luffy wasnt listening to him and Chopper commented on it!
Dont just see what you want to see while reading the story please!

 

[Pirate Queen]

Luffy listens to only what he wants to hear nothing more nothing less, name one time when anyone but Zoro made Luffy take something seriously and stop and think before he acts?

He listened to their suggestions, they didnt tell him what to do, why cant you understand something this simple

HUH his crew has even said he doesnt listen, Jinbe was shocked that Luffy wasnt listening to him and Chopper commented on it!
Dont just see what you want to see while reading the story please!

Okay your clearly not getting it so lets just agree to disagree. I cant explain any futher without repeating myself at this point.

Reread mine and Holt's discussion and maybe you'll understand.

 

[Shasha23]

Okay your clearly not getting it so lets just agree to disagree. I cant explain any futher without repeating myself at this point.

Reread mine and Holt's discussion and maybe you'll understand.

I understand just fine, you just fail to take into account Luffy's personality and goal when making your ranking list.
I pretty much agree that if Luffy wasn't aiming to be PK then Zoro wouldn't be needed since he would serve no purpose in the crew

 

[Pirate Queen]

I understand just fine, you just fail to take into account Luffy's personality and goal when making your ranking list.
I pretty much agree that if Luffy wasn't aiming to be PK then Zoro wouldn't be needed since he would serve no purpose in the crew

Which is inaccurate. But lets just leave it alone now

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Luffy has a fleet and enough combatants in his crew where Zoro is not needed in the slightest.

The fleet is not bad, but they are just allies.
Luffy definitely needs combatants in his main crews. In fact the current crew lacks enough combatants to be considered as powerful as yonkou pirate

 

[Pirate Queen]

The fleet is not bad, but they are just allies.
Luffy definitely needs combatants in his main crews. In fact the current crew lacks enough combatants to be considered as powerful as yonkou pirate

This has already been addressed, please see the above conversation for clarification. It doesn't change.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Luffy dont need zoro but he cannot be the pirate king without sanji.

The only man who could ever defeat luffy is on his crew so he does not need to worry.

Which one of these sentences are true ?

Neither.

1.Luffy cannot cook for himself so as long SOMEONE on his crew can get food, he'll fine

2. At a certain point any top tier can fight a top tier, depending on the fighter. Luffy will never be invincible. Nor will any one.

Both are false

 

[M3J]

And this is just a small instant of others making Luffy see reason where Luffy just wanted to an idiot. There are countless more example, but you just needed one.

I said hard decisions. This isn't hard, Jinbei merely reminded Luffy of his priority, as he did on WCI.

This is quite an interesting discussion. Zoro doesn't have a clear-cut role in terms of the ship, but I think frankly, Zoro functions as the first-mate and everyone on the crew knows that, even though he and Sanji butt heads. Jinbei cannot fill that role. The crew do not have enough connection to him for that. Yes they will definitely respect him as a pirate and an established fighter, but he simply cannot replace Zoro's role. Not anytime soon tbh. Even if he did, I'd say the SHs will default to listening to Sanji. You'd have a case where if Luffy was absent, Jinbei makes a suggestion and the other SHs will look to Sanji (assuming Zoro is absent) for comment. Zoro is the unofficial first mate of the Strawhats. This is a vital position in itself. If Luffy isn't around, when the SHs are not goofing around, Zoro will take command, same as Sanji takes command if Zoro isn't around. It's not simply a matter of strength. There's an innate respect for Zoro that you don't simply get by tossing another strong pirate on the ship.

The crew may not, but they'd trust Jinbei as much as they trust Zoro, because if nothing else Jinbei saved Luffy's life and saved him from depression, and he has Luffy's utmost trust and respect. They'd listen to Jinbei without hesitation, methinks, unless there's someone else who knows better, like Nami and her ability to navigate.

I don't know if Lexus mentioned this, but it's not about Jinbei's strength, but what he's done. Jinbei had innate respect from the crew since FI, and I think anyone that Luffy trusts and praises will usually have automatic respect. Though, I do suppose they'd trust Zoro more given the bond they have.

Now there was confusion and M3J thought i was saying Zoro is useless.

Nosiree Bob, I even explained the mix-up.

I can definitely see Jinbe being more lenient than Zoro in matters such as those presented in the manga.

FUCKING YAY

 

[Pirate Queen]

I said hard decisions. This isn't hard, Jinbei merely reminded Luffy of his priority, as he did on WCI.

The crew may not, but they'd trust Jinbei as much as they trust Zoro, because if nothing else Jinbei saved Luffy's life and saved him from depression, and he has Luffy's utmost trust and respect. They'd listen to Jinbei without hesitation, methinks, unless there's someone else who knows better, like Nami and her ability to navigate.

I don't know if Lexus mentioned this, but it's not about Jinbei's strength, but what he's done. Jinbei had innate respect from the crew since FI, and I think anyone that Luffy trusts and praises will usually have automatic respect. Though, I do suppose they'd trust Zoro more given the bond they have.

Nosiree Bob, I even explained the mix-up.


FUCKING YAY

Your right. I was just addressing if that i was coming across as saying Zoro is useless, then it was not my intent.

We good

And the fact that Jinbei could be more lenient than Zoro doesn't change a thing and when you say "hard decision" it is your opinion that my example is not a hard decision were as in my opinion Jinbei convincing Luffy to stop fighting BB as it is against their best interests is a hard thing to do, especially since Luffy was seeing red and was out for blood at the moment.

Jinbei also convinced Luffy to join Bege and assassinate a Yonko despite everything we know about Luffy's stance on that type of combat. Was that not advising Luffy with a hard decision?

Rayleigh advising Luffy to stay away from his beloved crew for 2 whole years isnt a hard decision for Luffy?

Jinbei convincing Luffy to leave him to face the wraith of a Yonko with his OLD crew while facing sure death isnt a hard thing to convince Luffy to do? Despite being a full fledged crew member?

All difficult decisions that Luffy was advised through and then made a decision as captain.

Zoro threatened Luffy is the only difference. It putting Luffy in a lose lose situation. He was going to lose someone regardless of his decision.

It all depends on what you personally consider a "hard decision" because where im sitting, my examples are equally hard because it puts Luffy in a position of loss.

Loses the chance for revenge against BB
Having to work with CC and fight a Yonko with underhanded means
Leaving his reunion with his crew on hold
Possibly losing Jinbe

These are hard decisions.

So again, Zoro isn't the only one advising Luffy through hard decisions.

You can't possibly say this wasnt a "Hard decision" for Luffy to make. It was a hell of a sacrifice and Luffy had no way of knowing his nakama would live

 

[M3J]

Ya, I messed up, my bad. Although I can't imagine him not being essential.