Discussion Zoro Discussion Thread

[M3J]

What is a proof? Wss and yonko title? He cant be close to them without titles?
His swordsmanship will never change.
His physical strength seems to be good enough to clash with top tier Fujitora and push him back through gravity.
His CoA seems superb to the point that he might create a kokuto this arc which not even Shanks has.
So, what's actually missing?

Has he taken on well-known swordsmen and beaten them? Some of his best feats just include pushing away a blind admiral and... a long-ranged attack that sliced a huge stone? Luffy could be stronger than an Emperor and still not even be in the running for the fifth emperor or successor if he doesn't fight someone on a similar power level to them and win.
Likewise, Zoro could be stronger than Mihawk, but it'd all mean jackshit if he doesn't actually prove it.

 

[nik87]

Has he taken on well-known swordsmen and beaten them? Some of his best feats just include pushing away a blind admiral and... a long-ranged attack that sliced a huge stone? Luffy could be stronger than an Emperor and still not even be in the running for the fifth emperor or successor if he doesn't fight someone on a similar power level to them and win.
Likewise, Zoro could be stronger than Mihawk, but it'd all mean jackshit if he doesn't actually prove it.

Mihawk and Shanks dont have such proof of strength either.
Kokuto aside, what will future Zoro who beats Mihawk have that current Zoro doesn't?

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Mihawk never sparred with a Yonko. Shanks became a Yonko 6 years later and we don't know his strength at that time. Stronger than before for sure. One of them needs to "test" his strength against Whitebeard from 200 yards away, the other casually walks on to his boat and has no fear clashing with him head on. Enough said.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 7, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 7, 2020 ---

...what puts Zoro on Mihawk's level, let alone the superior Shanks??

I thought databook should not be taken too seriously?
Anyway whitebeard recalled that the fight between mihawk and shanks was still new to him so it should not be that long. Shanks is not luffy so his power should be similar to his current power.

Being fearless means nothing. Luffy was fearless against kaido and guess what happened on his fight....

 

[Pirate Queen]

I thought databook should not be taken too seriously?
Anyway whitebeard recalled that the fight between mihawk and shanks was still new to him so it should not be that long. Shanks is not luffy so his power should be similar to his current power.

Being fearless means nothing. Luffy was fearless against kaido and guess what happened on his fight....

Data books? Lol this was established in the manga. The timeline is in the actual mangq

 

[M3J]

Mihawk and Shanks dont have such proof of strength either.
Kokuto aside, what will future Zoro who beats Mihawk have that current Zoro doesn't?

Not to us, no, but in the manga they're known as the World's Greatest Swordsman and an Emperor, and they've backed that up. If some of Yonkou said Zoro was the world's strongest swordsman, then that'd be considered proof he's superior to Mihawk.

Future Zoro who beats Mihawk will have victory over Mihawk, which the current Zoro doesn't have, and likely fame as one of the strongest swordsmen.

 

[thedude]

I thought databook should not be taken too seriously?
Anyway whitebeard recalled that the fight between mihawk and shanks was still new to him so it should not be that long. Shanks is not luffy so his power should be similar to his current power.

Being fearless means nothing. Luffy was fearless against kaido and guess what happened on his fight....

What?? We know when Shanks became a Yonko, they literally just mentioned it a few chapters ago when showing the Yonko bounties. They said it was 6 years ago, which is 4 years before Luffy set out to sea. We also know that Luffy set out to sea a decade after Shanks lost his arm and left his village. So 10-4=6! That means Shanks hadn't fought Mihawk for 6 years, and in that time he became a Yonko. And he became a Yonko without the large fleet that the others have, so it's very safe to assume he did it based on his strength and accomplishments AFTER he stopped fighting Mihawk.

"his power should be similar" is just straight pulled out of thin air. We see that every character can gain strength via experience. Raleigh and Katakurri explicitly state that. So why wouldn't this apply to Shanks?

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 8, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 8, 2020 ---

When you determine what is Shanks level then we can go up one step and define Mihawk level.
What do Mihawk and Shanks have that Zoro doesnt?

Shanks level is Yonko.

Mihawk had the ability to slice Zoro in half, and likely take his eye during his training. Shanks has more strength and better Haki. This is dumb. You are taking your fanboy stuff way too far right now. You are putting Zoro as the strongest current character in the manga.



*Mihawk level is "afraid to get closer than 200 yards to Whitebeard and casually stopped by Jozu and Crocodile". Shanks level is "casually stroll onto Whitebeards boat and try to boss him around and then clash with him". Or "stop the much larger Kaido pirate crew from reaching Marineford, and then go to Marineford with his tiny crew and scare everyone from fighting more by saying he'd be all of their opponent".

 

[nik87]

Shanks level is Yonko.

Mihawk had the ability to slice Zoro in half, and likely take his eye during his training. Shanks has more strength and better Haki. This is dumb. You are taking your fanboy stuff way too far right now. You are putting Zoro as the strongest current character in the manga.

*Mihawk level is "afraid to get closer than 200 yards to Whitebeard and casually stopped by Jozu and Crocodile". Shanks level is "casually stroll onto Whitebeards boat and try to boss him around and then clash with him". Or "stop the much larger Kaido pirate crew from reaching Marineford, and then go to Marineford with his tiny crew and scare everyone from fighting more by saying he'd be all of their opponent".

H.E.A.D.C.A.N.O.N.
Yonko is not a power level. Just description for leaders of powerful crews who rule like Emperors.
Garp described the as powerful(political power) not as strongest.

Shanks had more strength and better haki than Mihawk? lol... More headcanon...
I am just asking what Mihawk/Shanks have that Zoro doesnt, he may not be far away from them.

Mihawk afraid to come close to WB? More headcanon... No, he wasnt "casually stopped by Jozu and Crocodile"... Read the manga.
Shanks clashed with top tier(WB). Zoro clashed with top tier(Fujitora)...
Stopping Kaido is pure headcanon because we have 0 information about what happened.
Yeah, "he scarred" the entire might of Marines into not fighting anymore... If there was another full Emperor crew along with Shanks' crew, maybe I would believe that they were scared of fighting them...

 

[thedude]

H.E.A.D.C.A.N.O.N.
Yonko is not a power level. Just description for leaders of powerful crews who rule like Emperors.
Garp described the as powerful(political power) not as strongest.

Shanks had more strength and better haki than Mihawk? lol... More headcanon...
I am just asking what Mihawk/Shanks have that Zoro doesnt, he may not be far away from them.

Mihawk afraid to come close to WB? More headcanon... No, he wasnt "casually stopped by Jozu and Crocodile"... Read the manga.
Shanks clashed with top tier(WB). Zoro clashed with top tier(Fujitora)...
Stopping Kaido is pure headcanon because we have 0 information about what happened.
Yeah, "he scarred" the entire might of Marines into not fighting anymore... If there was another full Emperor crew along with Shanks' crew, maybe I would believe that they were scared of fighting them...

Has Mihawk displayed any Conquerors haki? No. Has Shanks? Yes, as he casually made Whitebeards crew pass out.

He was casually stopped by Jozu, he just got in front and stopped it. https://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-553-page-16.html

(note that Mihawk wanted to measure the distance between the stronger Yonko WB over him and the other warlords, he says that the very previous page).

Stopping Kaido isn't headcannon, it's stated in the manga, Kaido was trying to go to Marineford, Shanks intercepted, they clashed. One of them made it to Marineford. I know Zoro wasn't involved so you might not be able to put two and two together...but clearly one guy decided not to come after this, and the other did. I didn't say he fought him one on one. But that's not the issue, it's a Yonko being stopped by another. It's in the bloody text man, why don't you try reading the entire chapters and stop just skimming over everything that doesn't have a sword in it.

The marines, Blackbeard, the warlords, all decided that fighting more against Shanks wasn't worth it. They all backed off. It's again, right in the chapters. There's even a sword or two in those pages, you may have even read it!

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

I mean, if you wanted to bring the example of jozu stopping mihawk attacks, then how about when shanks got fooled easily by a smoke bomb from a mountain bandit? Is his CoO that weak to detect the bandit? Or when he could not protect his arm with CoA against a sea monster. This should not be that long before he became yonkou

 

[thedude]

I mean, if you wanted to bring the example of jozu stopping mihawk attacks, then how about when shanks got fooled easily by a smoke bomb from a mountain bandit? Is his CoO that weak to detect the bandit? Or when he could not protect his arm with CoA against a sea monster. This should not be that long before he became yonkou

Yes, 6 years before he became a Yonko he was fooled by a smokebomb! And then...he got stronger and became a Yonko despite only having 1 arm. See, even you can see how strong he is!

Again, we have the timeline. Chapter 957, they say clearly, he was recognized as a Yonko 6 years ago. We know that the Luffy went out to sea 2 years ago (could be 3, depending on how long chapter 1 to the timeskip was, but I'll just say 2 years to make it easy.) We also know from chapter 1 that Luffy set out to sea 10 years after Shanks lost his arm:

One Piece Chapter 1 Page 53

Read One Piece Chapter 1 Page 53 Online For Free

mangaseeonline.us

So again, math, 10+2-6=6. 6 years after the smokebomb, 6 years after the sea monster took his arm. 6 years after he last dueled with Mihawk, Shanks became a Yonko. And he doesn't have a large fleet, nor does he seem to control territory, he is considered elusive and hard to find, unlike Kaido and Big Mom who have their island's that they live on and control.

You can say "it should not be that long before he became a yonko", but 6 years is long! And it's all there in the text. Try reading it!

 

[nik87]

Has Mihawk displayed any Conquerors haki? No. Has Shanks? Yes, as he casually made Whitebeards crew pass out.

He was casually stopped by Jozu, he just got in front and stopped it. https://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-553-page-16.html

(note that Mihawk wanted to measure the distance between the stronger Yonko WB over him and the other warlords, he says that the very previous page).

Stopping Kaido isn't headcannon, it's stated in the manga, Kaido was trying to go to Marineford, Shanks intercepted, they clashed. One of them made it to Marineford. I know Zoro wasn't involved so you might not be able to put two and two together...but clearly one guy decided not to come after this, and the other did. I didn't say he fought him one on one. But that's not the issue, it's a Yonko being stopped by another. It's in the bloody text man, why don't you try reading the entire chapters and stop just skimming over everything that doesn't have a sword in it.

The marines, Blackbeard, the warlords, all decided that fighting more against Shanks wasn't worth it. They all backed off. It's again, right in the chapters. There's even a sword or two in those pages, you may have even read it!

Was CoC of any use in any 1vs1 fight so far? Literally useless ability so far to flex on fodder.
Jozu intercepted a slash made for Whitebeard which had the purpose to test if Whitebeard's strength has declined as Mihawk suspected(raw transl.).
If stopping a slash means stopping Mihawk in your book, then Mr1 stopped Mihawk too, because he as well has stopped a flying slash.

Kaido was stopped, yes but what actually happened nobody knows. In 2nd clash with Zoro, Fujitora was stopped too. In WCI Mugiwara Luffy dealt Big Mom a crushing defeat as well. Yonko stopped by another Yonko, Fujitora stopped by Zoro, sounds good enough for my arguments. I am not skipping anything, just pointing out that we dont know what actually happened.

Marines+Shichibukai's even if you count Mihawk out since he left are a force way too strong for an Emperor crew to scare them. It is just a convenient reason to end the war. If there were 3 Emperor crews together, maybe we could buy the "Marines were scared" while you claim that entire might of Marines+Shichibukai+Blackbeard pirates were scared of fighting crew of 10 people...

 

[Fox666]

Only youngsters develop skills

Franky: 36
Brook: 90
Blackbeard: 40
Capone Bege: 42
Smoker: 36

 

[goldb]

Guys, this the Zoro discussion thread; please get back on topic; you've gone way off...again. I'm asking nicely.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Guys, this the Zoro discussion thread; please get back on topic; you've gone way off...again. I'm asking nicely.

Yup, it was pretty bad. Swordsman topic trigger some people.
Anyway, EoS zoro should be similar to rayleigh, so at least yonko tier

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Yup, it was pretty bad. Swordsman topic trigger some people.
Anyway, EoS zoro should be similar to rayleigh, so at least yonko tier

Correction: not similar but superior to prime Rayleigh.

It's almost certain that Zoro will have a black blade, maybe two or even three black blades EoS. It's also very obvious that he will surpass Mihawk. So in my humble opinion EoS Zoro is a top-notch Yonko level fighter...

 

[King Moe]

IDK if Zoro will be that strong since Mihawk isn't shown above Yonkos or even Admirals, but unless development more, he could be equal to them, but not stronger than Whitebeard and Shanks.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

IDK if Zoro will be that strong since Mihawk isn't shown above Yonkos or even Admirals, but unless development more, he could be equal to them, but not stronger than Whitebeard and Shanks.

I mean, even if he is equal to Shanks/Big Mom, surpassing Mihawk means that Zoro will still be stronger than one or two yonkos. Still an amazing achievement for someone who isn't Luffy :-).

 

[King Moe]

I mean, even if he is equal to Shanks/Big Mom, surpassing Mihawk means that Zoro will still be stronger than one or two yonkos. Still an amazing achievement for someone who isn't Luffy :-).

Shanks is stronger than Mihawk. He not same level as before. Zoro could surpass Pre-Yonko Shanks. Though not Yonko Shanks in his Full Prime.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Shanks is stronger than Mihawk.

You do not and cannot know that for certain. But I respect your opinion.

Anyways we are only only a few dozens of chapters away from seeing where Zoro stands power level wise.

If he cuts Kaido (not defeats Kaido) then it's safe to assume he will be around that level or stronger by the end of the series.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

IDK if Zoro will be that strong since Mihawk isn't shown above Yonkos or even Admirals, but unless development more, he could be equal to them, but not stronger than Whitebeard and Shanks.

That's like saying luffy wont be as strong as gold roger
EoS luffy is similar to roger
EoS zoro is similar to rayleigh

Just telling you how writing in OP is