Discussion Zoro Discussion Thread

[Shasha23]

he isnt getting his sword back, Enma is superior isnt it?

No Shusui is superior but Enma has potential of surpassing it in rank among the o wazamono blades

 

[goldb]

he isnt getting his sword back, Enma is superior isnt it?

Currently they're the same grade but once Zoro masters it and permanently turns it black, it would become a supreme grade sword; same as Mihawk's Yoru and Whitebeard's bisento.

 

[nik87]

Enma will shatter into pieces when Zoro tries to forge it into a black blade while Shusui will remain in Wano.
Zoro will take Kitetsu of 2nd generation, Nidai Kitetsu since no one else wants those cursed swords.

 

[Shasha23]

Currently they're the same grade but once Zoro masters it and permanently turns it black, it would become a supreme grade sword; same as Mihawk's Yoru and Whitebeard's bisento.

No that wasnt what the maga said, that was just mistranslation.
The manga says it as such:

If Zoro can turn Enma into a black blade its rank will increase, that was not to say its grade would increase.
The 21 O wazamono are implied to be ranked from 1 - 21 and Susui is ranked higher than Enma, this was also implied before by Mihawk stating Yoru is the strongest saijo O wazamon, meaning among the 12 Yoru is ranked 1st.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Enma will shatter into pieces when Zoro tries to forge it into a black blade while Shusui will remain in Wano.
Zoro will take Kitetsu of 2nd generation, Nidai Kitetsu since no one else wants those cursed swords.

I don't think enma is going away. That sword is hyped big time in this arc. Would be ridiculous to just not use it anymore after this arc.
I think the sword from logue town will be the one to be broken, if zoro will get another sword

 

[jaymizzo]

The 21 O wazamono are implied to be ranked from 1 - 21 and Susui is ranked higher than Enma, this was also implied before by Mihawk stating Yoru is the strongest saijo O wazamon, meaning among the 12 Yoru is ranked 1st.

Where did Mihawk imply that Yoru is the strongest graded sword? Genuinely cannot remember this.

 

[goldb]

No that wasnt what the maga said, that was just mistranslation.
The manga says it as such:

If Zoro can turn Enma into a black blade its rank will increase, that was not to say its grade would increase.
The 21 O wazamono are implied to be ranked from 1 - 21 and Susui is ranked higher than Enma, this was also implied before by Mihawk stating Yoru is the strongest saijo O wazamon, meaning among the 12 Yoru is ranked 1st.

Fair enough, I didn't know there was an error in translation or that Shusui ranked higher. Considering who the sword belonged to, I guess I'm not that surprised.

 

[nik87]

I don't think enma is going away. That sword is hyped big time in this arc. Would be ridiculous to just not use it anymore after this arc.
I think the sword from logue town will be the one to be broken, if zoro will get another sword

It's my personal fetish that Zoro ends up with all 3 Kitetsu blades. We could see some curse manifestation like Cavendish's Hakuba.
It would be a dope collection of swords and would show that the best swordmaster can use any quality of sword and be on top.

 

[Shasha23]

Where did Mihawk imply that Yoru is the strongest graded sword? Genuinely cannot remember this.

Mihawk implied as such before beating Zoro

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 27, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 27, 2020 ---

It's my personal fetish that Zoro ends up with all 3 Kitetsu blades. We could see some curse manifestation like Cavendish's Hakuba.
It would be a dope collection of swords and would show that the best swordmaster can use any quality of sword and be on top.

I also used to think like this but now i doubt it, it seems turning a blade into a black blade is pretty hard so i cant see Zoro having multiple black blades, but i do hope Zoro does end up collecting a bunch of blades and depending on the island he picks different swords.

 

[Brandish μ]

Initially I wanted Zoro to get Shusui back, but I like the idea of him parting ways with it at the end of the arc when he visits Ryuma's grave.

If Zoro somehow is called the Sword God this series, he will awaken some sort of God in Enma.

Spoiler: Wikipedia

Enma is the god of hell who judges right and wrong after a human dies and falls into hell. Enma gives many kinds of dreadful punishments. The word Enma comes from Yama in Sanskrit and Pali, a language for Buddhist writings in Sri Lanka, Myanmar and Thailand.

it seems turning a blade into a black blade is pretty hard so i cant see Zoro having multiple black blades

It might be easier/harder for Zoro to make a blade black, since he uses 3?

I don't think he'll have 3 black blades either, he'll favour the one which is black.

 

[thedude]

Initially I wanted Zoro to get Shusui back, but I like the idea of him parting ways with it at the end of the arc when he visits Ryuma's grave.

If Zoro somehow is called the Sword God this series, he will awaken some sort of God in Enma.

Spoiler: Wikipedia

Enma is the god of hell who judges right and wrong after a human dies and falls into hell. Enma gives many kinds of dreadful punishments. The word Enma comes from Yama in Sanskrit and Pali, a language for Buddhist writings in Sri Lanka, Myanmar and Thailand.

It might be easier/harder for Zoro to make a blade black, since he uses 3?

I don't think he'll have 3 black blades either, he'll favour the one which is black.

I think his first sword will be the black one.

 

[Shasha23]

It might be easier/harder for Zoro to make a blade black, since he uses 3?

I don't think he'll have 3 black blades either, he'll favour the one which is black.

I think IMO that you can only turn swords into black blades when you have a long history and understanding with them, i believe Wado and Enma for sure will be with him till the end so they will turn into black blades.

I think by the end his 3 main blades will be kokuto, but i dont think he will be able to turn more into kokuto since he wont have a bond with them.

 

[nik87]

I think IMO that you can only turn swords into black blades when you have a long history and understanding with them, i believe Wado and Enma for sure will be with him till the end so they will turn into black blades.

I think by the end his 3 main blades will be kokuto, but i dont think he will be able to turn more into kokuto since he wont have a bond with them.

I dont think that's a requirement.
No sword can compare to Wado Ichimonji in that so if he can blacken newer swords, he shouldnt have any issues blackening the newest either.

I think the crucial part for that process is control over the flow, on unparalleled level which only Ryuma and Mihawk reached as well as incredible Hardening which he could have already reached but is still lacking in flow.

It could be connected to the growth of the spirit(haki) and the mastering of the six paths. Zoro has mastered 4 paths so far - human path, animal path, path of the hungry ghost and the asura path.

The two remaining paths are path of hell and path of a god(deva) and since Enma is hell themed it could be a hint that he also mastered the path of hell. Where and how he will master the path of god is still unclear.

 

[Shasha23]

I dont think that's a requirement.
No sword can compare to Wado Ichimonji in that so if he can blacken newer swords, he shouldnt have any issues blackening the newest either.

I think the crucial part for that process is control over the flow, on unparalleled level which only Ryuma and Mihawk reached as well as incredible Hardening which he could have already reached but is still lacking in flow.

It could be connected to the growth of the spirit(haki) and the mastering of the six paths. Zoro has mastered 4 paths so far - human path, animal path, path of the hungry ghost and the asura path.

The two remaining paths are path of hell and path of a god(deva) and since Enma is hell themed it could be a hint that he also mastered the path of hell. Where and how he will master the path of god is still unclear.

My reason is that to make a blade kokuto you need a strong bond with it, so Zoro just going around turning any blade he uses into a kokuto would cheapen the process for me, thats why i believe Wado and Enma will be his swords till the end making his bond with them that much stronger.

 

[nik87]

My reason is that to make a blade kokuto you need a strong bond with it, so Zoro just going around turning any blade he uses into a kokuto would cheapen the process for me, thats why i believe Wado and Enma will be his swords till the end making his bond with them that much stronger.

I understand the reason behind it, however, it will depend on the newest blade that he turns black.
For example, if he turns black Shodai Kitetsu which he obtains in the final arc, then the bond is an unlikely requirement.
If he can turn 3 blades into Kokuto's, there is no good reason why he cant turn 10 as well.
However, there is always the plot element as a reason why no more blades are gonna get blackened.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

@nik87 so you're saying that turning a blade black has to do with the flow?

Do you see it as a 'the flow is always "flowing" within the blade' kind of thing? As if the blade had a consciousness of it's own of some sort...

 

[nik87]

@nik87 so you're saying that turning a blade black has to do with the flow?
Do you see it as a 'the flow is always "flowing" within the blade' kind of thing? As if the blade had a conscious of it's own of some sort...

I think I posted my theory somewhere, probably in Purpose of Zoro thread.
In short, the process of forging the Kokuto requires both Hardening and the Flow. Unparalleled levels of both.
While many top tiers may have Hardening at required level, they lack control over the Flow and precision compared to Ryuma and Mihawk since they are brutes, as Mihawk described himself as not being one of those brutes who hunt a rabbit with a cannon.

My theory is that Hardening reaches a level at which it creates immense pressure on the blade and starts combusting it but such process breaks the blade. What prevents it from breaking is the Flow which distributes the pressure evenly on all parts of the blade. Someone who read my theory said that it should be reversed and may be even a better way. It is flow, internal destruction which affects the properties of the blade and combusts it while Hardening is keeping it pressed so it doesnt break apart.

It was forged alongside many battles that Ryuma had. What happens during those many battles is that CoA gets better and better, it is related to growth of spirit(haki). It could also be linked to growth of spirit through mastering the 6 paths. Zoro's only new move post TS is called the Crossing of Six Paths and it could be a hint towards the ultimate growth of the spirit, the mastery over all 6 which signifies Haki levels at required mark for creating of a Kokuto.

Zoro has shown mastery over 4 paths so far and with Wano being hell themed, as well as Enma and the mastery of the same, it could mean that he also mastered the path of hell and in that case a new spirit manifestation could be expected that wasnt seen so far. In that case only a path of god would be left and works well for my theory which also says that Zoro will try to forge a Kokuto in Wano but will fail due to control over the Flow still not being at required level which aligns well with the lack of the mastery over the path of god.

Also, once created, the black blade only gains in hardness, I dont think it offers anything more than that. Could be wrong about that but an object of unparalleled hardness is an awesome thing by itself. Basically, an invincible shield. It is not hakified or anything of the sort, imo.

 

[Brandish μ]

It was forged alongside many battles that Ryuma had. What happens during those many battles is that CoA gets better and better, it is related to growth of spirit(haki). It could also be linked to growth of spirit through mastering the 6 paths. Zoro's only new move post TS is called the Crossing of Six Paths and it could be a hint towards the ultimate growth of the spirit, the mastery over all 6 which signifies Haki levels at required mark for creating of a Kokuto.

I quite like this idea, since there's a buddhist theme to a few other Zoro moves. Maybe that's why one of Zoro's eyes are closed, like a buddha?

Zoro's spirit has been mentioned a few times by others in Wano Arc. Kaku also mentioned Zoro's spirit before it manifested into Asura. So, we can expect Oda to continue down this track.

 

[Erinyes]

Initially I wanted Zoro to get Shusui back, but I like the idea of him parting ways with it at the end of the arc when he visits Ryuma's grave.

Oh now that Yamato introduced herself as the one who carries Oden will, she got his journal, she knows a lot, she is very strong, she has plans for the country, shes likely a swordwoman, she is strongly linked with "oni*" (kind of oger/devils in japanese folklore) symbolism and in Japanese/bouddhist mythology they are linked to Enma, i think shes the one who will likely inherits Enma, she seems to be the most qualified, for now, or at least that makes sense to me.

[...]
The oni was syncretized with Hindu-Buddhist creatures such as the man-devouring yaksha and the rakshasa, and became the oni who tormented sinners as wardens of Jigoku (Hell),administering sentences passed down by Hell's magistrate, King Yama (Enma Daiō)

Oni - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[thedude]

Oh now that Yamato introduced herself as the one who carries Oden will, she got his journal, she knows a lot, she is very strong, she has plans for the country, shes likely a swordwoman, she is strongly linked with "oni*" (kind of oger/devils in japanese folklore) symbolism and in Japanese/bouddhist mythology they are linked to Enma, i think shes the one who will likely inherits Enma, she seems to be the most qualified, for now, or at least that makes sense to me.

I'd love her to get Enma, and instead of Zoro just trading for a different Wano sword, for him to be forged his own great blade by Tenguyama Hitetsu. He did make a blade for Oden, which was one of the 21 great swords, so why not a special one for Zoro? Enough of this "this sword used to belong to...", Zoro should have his own blade.