Discussion Zoro Discussion Thread

[Pirate Queen]

Why did I even bother making a whole post to contradict your "objective" statement... People not wanting to be WSS has nothing to do with there being competition.

Zoro has tons of competition. People not caring about the title is unimportant, as it's not a race: it's Zoro's path. He wants to become someone, and in his way to become said thing there are people he needs to surpass: To become the strongest, every strong swordsman in the world, Mihawk and Shanks included, are competition. The title is just Oda's way of simplifying the process by which he can be considered the strongest.


Let's ask ourselves what's there to gain from aiming at aiming for WSS.

Zoro has that desire because he's obsessed with becoming the strongest, but it's not a title that comes with any kind of power or riches or priviledges at all. It's understandable that no one else would gun for it.

Instead, other characters have different ambitions and objectives. They may want to be yonkos or pirate kings or just serve another person like Vista, but as long as Zoro doesn't prove he's the strongest, they're all in his path to become WSS. They are all, objetively, competition in the way of his dream.

I do agree that it would be cool to see Zoro fight more swordsmen, particularly on this arc, but that's a different matter. I'm being patient on that regard.


Did it seem overkill for Luffy to get trained by Rayleigh? Why do you have such a problem with Mihawk but not with him? Was it overkill for Franky to get access to Vegapunk's designs? Or for Nami to go with the better experts on climate on the world?

That "bad fanfic" brought us a marvelous exchange between Zoro and Mihawk, so I'm thankful for that.

Your entire post on its face is simply wrong. I'm sorry you feel like you wasted your time. It was well written. But just does nothing to address the substance of my posts and outright ignores ots first sentence.

Zoro doesn't have any competition in becoming WSS. That's a fact. No one has claimed to want the WSS title. That's a fact. Zoro has not fought a single elite swordsman and we have been in NW for years now. That is a fact. Zoro was trained by the man who has the title which give him an advantage IF anyone else even was gunning for the WSS title. That is a fact.

You can make excuses, . But your being patient on a manga that has 5 years left and has been going on for 20 years isn't something I consider good, but we will have to see. I can be patient as well, but I'm not talking about Zoro's future. I'm talking about this journey he's already completed.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 5, 2021, Original Post Date: Jan 5, 2021 ---

This post seemed more aggressive than I intended it to be. I apologize.

 

[M3J]

I do think having Zoro train under Mihawk was a bad way to go about Zoro entering the time skip. I would have much preferred Zoro stumbling on Mihawk's trainer or mentor. BUT its not something that effects me in anyway. I was just kinda "meh" about it. We already new Zoro was willing to give up his dream for Luffy back in Thrillerbark. We didn't need to see his throw his pride away for Luffy further.

To me their fight lost alot of its hype.

I don't see them fighting to the death and if they aren't fighting to the death they will both be holding back.

If Zoro performs well during his fight with Kaido I am more than ready to says Zoro = Mihawk at the end of the arc (as you all know I think Mihawk is just under the Yonko so i have no problem saying Zoro is a little under the Yonko level as well pending his performance)so I'd much prefer someone antagonistic take the title from Mihawk so that it can be a fight where neither hold back.

There has to be some type of student teacher bond that they formed in the 2 years. Zoro has been with Mihawk far longer than he's been with Luffy. I don't for a second believe Mihawk is going to go for the killing blow.

If they do fight it will be more of an intense spar.

Of course I expect annoying backlash from this comment, but its just my opinion. Many of you have heard this from me already.

Feel free to read this if you plan on considering the counters, or ignore it.

I don't understand this though. Why wouldn't you expect them to fight to the death? These two are swordsmen with swordsmen honor, and the only reason Mihawk spared Zoro in their first fight was because he saw potential in Zoro due to Zoro's unflinching ways and credo. Both know if they don't come at each other with intent to kill, at the very least, it'd be like an insult to the other warrior.

Zoro's pride is extremely important to him, and by him throwing that away, it shows what's important to him. Plus, even after the training, Zoro is still likely much weaker than Mihawk, I'm sure both he and Mihawk want Zoro to get stronger in his own way, like how Rayleigh did after Luffy mastered haki.

They can fight to the death without killing each other. If anything, their time together should make Mihawk even more determined to kill Zoro, as that's what ZOro would want.

I disagree with every single paragraph.

Wow what a compelling argument

There isn't some great race to see who can beat Mihawk for the title. Zoro is essentially running a 1 man race. The fact is that in the entirely of One Piece, Zoro doesn't have a single other competitor to the title. Now that alone should make it easy enough, but it isn't. Not only is Zoro running a 1 man race, he also got trained by the only one who finished the race to begin with.

Zoro likely is, but he still has competitors. Not to the title, but there are enemy swordsmen who want to take out the Straw Hats or will become their opponents, and they'll in particular want to beat Zoro, who's on fast track to becoming one of the best swordsmen. I mean, Daz Bones wasn't Zoro's competitor for the title, but he still tested Zoro immensely and helped him improve. Zoro definitely doesn't have anything easy here just because we assume he has no competition.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Zoro likely is, but he still has competitors. Not to the title, but there are enemy swordsmen who want to take out the Straw Hats or will become their opponents, and they'll in particular want to beat Zoro, who's on fast track to becoming one of the best swordsmen. I mean, Daz Bones wasn't Zoro's competitor for the title, but he still tested Zoro immensely and helped him improve. Zoro definitely doesn't have anything easy here just because we assume he has no competition.

I'm not sure if you recall but Mr. 1 wasn't a swordsman. And Zoro is only on the "fast track" because was trained by the WSS.

One of my most important points that I want to get out is that Zoro, as of the post time skip... should have had at most 3 (random number but I'm just picking at random) solid victories over established New World Swordsmen. At least 1. Its like Luffy trying to get to the One Piece without fighting a single pirate.

 

[Ellenate]

Did it seem overkill for Luffy to get trained by Rayleigh? Was it overkill for Franky to get access to Vegapunk's designs? Or for Nami to go with the better experts on climate on the world?

That "bad fanfic" brought us a marvelous exchange between Zoro and Mihawk, so I'm thankful for that.

Nah, it was alright.
No but it was equally as contrived.
Yes, it was pointless (she was predicting storms off of slight breezes while sick. what did she possibly need to learn about the weather at the point).

The timeskip as a whole makes little sense when you examine it closely. Especially when you consider it was all kuma's idea and the limited timeframe he had to come up with it all.

 

[Takuan]

I agree with Moegara about the race thing.
People might not gun for the WSS title specifically, doesn't mean they aren't in the way of Zoro's dream.

If nobody was currently holding the WSS title, what would Zoro's dream be? Essentially, the exact same : to be the strongest swordsman. He'd have to beat every strong swordsman he can find, just like Mihawk did; even if these swordsman don't necessarily try for the same goal and aren't interested in being the WSS. What these other swordsman want, their desire (or lackof) of being WSS doesn't matter for Zoro, they are still competitors in that path.
Mihawk having a WSS title is just a symbolic for Zoro's dream.

 

[HereNThere]

Let's ask ourselves what's there to gain from aiming for WSS.

Zoro has that desire because he's obsessed with becoming the strongest, but it's not a title that comes with any kind of power or riches or priviledges at all. It's understandable that no one else would gun for it.

Instead, other characters have different ambitions and objectives. They may want to be yonkos or pirate kings or just serve another person like Vista, but as long as Zoro doesn't prove he's the strongest, they're all in his path to become WSS. They are all, objetively, competition in the way of his dream.

I do agree that it would be cool to see Zoro fight more swordsmen, particularly on this arc, but that's a different matter. I'm being patient on that regard.

The title itself doesn't give any power, but earning it implies you are on the level and have the power already. Nevermind the fact that having the title makes you world renowned and you gain the respect/notoriety that comes from that.

But let's ignore the end game and the title for a moment. In my opinion, other people aiming for the title gives Zoro clear stepping stones on his path to be the greatest. The victories he'd achieve over those hypothetical rivals would us tangible proof that he's gaining on Mihawk. There are many people with different ambitions and objections, but there should be others who want to prove their mettle against other strong swordsmen. Zoro, Kuina, and Mihawk being the only ones with that goal just seems off.

Everyone that Zoro's fought do function as obstacles, there's no doubt in that, and he still gets the strength from the experience... but they're circumstantial opponents a lot of the time, dictated by the situation of the current arc. None of them are individuals who really threaten his dream or endanger it. I'd have like to seen more people who challenge Zoro solely because he's a strong swordsman and vice versa. Zoro should be wanting to prove himself to people similar to him, to show that he's the strongest.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I agree with Moegara about the race thing.
People might not gun for the WSS title specifically, doesn't mean they aren't in the way of Zoro's dream.

Who SPECIFICALLY has put themselves on the way of Zoro and his dream?

Who has said, "I am attempting to YOU from achieving YOUR dream of becoming the WSS?"

I am genuinely curious because that has never happened as far as I'm aware.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 5, 2021, Original Post Date: Jan 5, 2021 ---

If nobody was currently holding the WSS title, what would Zoro's dream be? Essentially, the exact same : to be the strongest swordsman. He'd have to beat every strong swordsman he can find, just like Mihawk did; even if these swordsman don't necessarily try for the same goal and aren't interested in being the WSS. What these other swordsman want, their desire (or lackof) of being WSS doesn't matter for Zoro, they are still competitors in that path.
Mihawk having a WSS title is just a symbolic for Zoro's dream.

This should be the case whether Mihawk exists or not.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 5, 2021 ---

I just have to say I am enjoying this Zoro discussion.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 6, 2021 ---

Everyone that Zoro's fought do function as obstacles, there's no doubt in that, and he still gets the strength from the experience... but they're circumstantial opponents a lot of the time, dictated by the situation of the current arc. None of them are individuals who really threaten his dream or endanger it. I'd have like to seen more people who challenge Zoro solely because he's a strong swordsman and vice versa. Zoro should be wanting to prove himself to people similar to him, to show that he's the strongest.

Beautifully said. This really shouldn't be hard to understand. I'm more surprised people are willing to over look this. It doesn't seem odd? Even during the war. The most eye opening moment for me was Vista being surprised that Mihawk knew who he was. And I was futher surprised when the databooks confirmed Vista was capable of fighting Mihawk at an elite level. That Mihawk never fought the main swordsman of the Whitebeard Pirates? This man who sailed the seas until there were no more swordsmen to fight? Vista's been active for decades and Mihawk NEVER ran into him? And again people like to say Mihawk wasn't trying during the war and the databooks directly contradicting that headcanon. And the most surprising yet... Vista, despite having the level of swordsmanship that Mohawk looks for in a rival, wasn't the slightest bit interested in claiming the title for his own. Doesn't even mention wanting? Doesn't mention Mihawk being someone he wishes to surpass as a swordsman? Nothing?

I would be happy if even a single person fights Zoro and even says the word WSS lol honestly thats where I'm at. Its why I was hoping so hard for King vs Zoro. A First Mate Swordsman? It was literally right in Oda's face and he couldn't give it to us.

I'd be more impressed if Zoro defeated a First Mate Sword master over him fighting Kaido. Kaido isn't a stepping stone for him... defeating an elite swordsman is.

 

[Shasha23]

I'd be more impressed if Zoro defeated a First Mate Sword master over him fighting Kaido. Kaido isn't a stepping stone for him... defeating an elite swordsman is.

But Zoro's dream isnt about being skilled with swords, his dream is to be the strongest using a sword, i dont get why you and others think he has to fight swordsmen to achieve it.

 

[Moss Green]

Who SPECIFICALLY has put themselves on the way of Zoro and his dream?

Who has said, "I am attempting to YOU from achieving YOUR dream of becoming the WSS?"

I am genuinely curious because that has never happened as far as I'm aware.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 5, 2021, Original Post Date: Jan 5, 2021 ---

This should be the case whether Mihawk exists or not.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 5, 2021 ---

I just have to say I am enjoying this Zoro discussion.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 6, 2021 ---

Beautifully said. This really shouldn't be hard to understand. I'm more surprised people are willing to over look this. It doesn't seem odd? Even during the war. The most eye opening moment for me was Vista being surprised that Mihawk knew who he was. And I was futher surprised when the databooks confirmed Vista was capable of fighting Mihawk at an elite level. That Mihawk never fought the main swordsman of the Whitebeard Pirates? This man who sailed the seas until there were no more swordsmen to fight? Vista's been active for decades and Mihawk NEVER ran into him? And again people like to say Mihawk wasn't trying during the war and the databooks directly contradicting that headcanon. And the most surprising yet... Vista, despite having the level of swordsmanship that Mohawk looks for in a rival, wasn't the slightest bit interested in claiming the title for his own. Doesn't even mention wanting? Doesn't mention Mihawk being someone he wishes to surpass as a swordsman? Nothing?

I would be happy if even a single person fights Zoro and even says the word WSS lol honestly thats where I'm at. Its why I was hoping so hard for King vs Zoro. A First Mate Swordsman? It was literally right in Oda's face and he couldn't give it to us.

I'd be more impressed if Zoro defeated a First Mate Sword master over him fighting Kaido. Kaido isn't a stepping stone for him... defeating an elite swordsman is.

You’ve totally conflated the “Race to become Pirate King” with the various titles that have been presented in the story to give context to characters relevance in the story.

Did we not just discover that the ONLY dubbed the Pirate King after he discovered One Piece? Never before. It is not something he even came with.

“World’s Strongest Man” = Whitebeard
“World’s Strongest Creature” = Kaido
“World’s Strongest Swordman” = Mihawk

How many “creatures” do you think there are sailing the seas trying to take Kaido’s title?

Zoro’s dream is acknowledgement from the world, not a race to a title. The same acknowledgment he wanted for Kuina’s swordsmanship which trumped his own. To acknowledge the goal that she would not be allowed to pursue because she was a woman.

 

[Pirate Queen]

You’ve totally conflated the “Race to become Pirate King” with the various titles that have been presented in the story to give context to characters relevance in the story.

Did we not just discover that the ONLY dubbed the Pirate King after he discovered One Piece? Never before. It is not something he even came with.

“World’s Strongest Man” = Whitebeard
“World’s Strongest Creature” = Kaido
“World’s Strongest Swordman” = Mihawk

How many “creatures” do you think there are sailing the seas trying to take Kaido’s title?

Zoro’s dream is acknowledgement from the world, not a race to a title. The same acknowledgment he wanted for Kuina’s swordsmanship which trumped his own. To acknowledge the goal that she would not be allowed to pursue because she was a woman.

You have completely missed the point.

 

[Ramen]

If your comfortable with Zoro fighting people like Money, Pica, and Killer when we have big named swordsmen then more power to you. I would rather see Zoro in swordfight since his goal is to be the WSS.

This is why a Zoro and Vista interaction would've been nice.

 

[Bigten10]

Zoro going the harem party route

Where did u find that?

 

[Pirate Queen]

[

But Zoro's dream isnt about being skilled with swords, his dream is to be the strongest using a sword, i dont get why you and others think he has to fight swordsmen to achieve it.

If thats the case he would have been called the Worlds Strongest Man not the World's Strongest SWORDSMAN.

Sword is the difference here.

Did they call Whitebeard the World's Strongest Naginata Wielder? Of course not, that would be ridiculous lol

 

[hokageji]

I'm not sure if you recall but Mr. 1 wasn't a swordsman. And Zoro is only on the "fast track" because was trained by the WSS.

One of my most important points that I want to get out is that Zoro, as of the post time skip... should have had at most 3 (random number but I'm just picking at random) solid victories over established New World Swordsmen. At least 1. Its like Luffy trying to get to the One Piece without fighting a single pirate.

I am quoting this post and i will get to this, but in reference to an older discussion, i think there was an interesting point that Zoro has no competition. That's a fairly interesting point, cos when you consider the number of people with ambitions, we've seen so many wanting to be pirate king, atleast 3 who are looking for All Blue, and perhaps a lot more who want to be brave.

But we have not encountered a single pirate who's ambition has been to become the worlds strongest swordsmen as far as i recall. The fact that Mihawk has this title means its probably a big deal and perhaps Mihawk is unique in terms of a pirate to show this. All the rest of them could be marines or normal people.
I also think Zoro training under Mihawk like previously discussed kinda gives him a shortcut to success, but inline with Luffy who trained with a haki master himself.

Also regarding battles, i dont think we will ever see Mihawk vs Zoro. My guess is the title will change hands maybe with Mihawk's death and Zoro will have to take that person down. The only other way we'll see this is if Mihawk comes for Luffy's head.

In regards to this post, yes, its sad that we haven't seen a fair sword fight with Zoro. Pica wasn't a swordsmen and Killer vs Zoro isn't a fair battle to compare with. Maybe Zoro vs Prometheus Linlin is a possibility, or King and Queen reach the top for a fight at the moement.

 

[Moss Green]

You have completely missed the point.

Enlighten me

 

[Pirate Queen]

Enlighten me

Read my comments again. I'm not repeating myself. And if you still don't get it, read them a third time. And if you still don't get it after that just agree to disagree and move on.

 

[M3J]

I'm not sure if you recall but Mr. 1 wasn't a swordsman. And Zoro is only on the "fast track" because was trained by the WSS.

One of my most important points that I want to get out is that Zoro, as of the post time skip... should have had at most 3 (random number but I'm just picking at random) solid victories over established New World Swordsmen. At least 1. Its like Luffy trying to get to the One Piece without fighting a single pirate.

That's exactly why I mentioned Daz Bones, because he's not a swordsman, but he was an obstacle that helped Zoro get better. I mean, that's not a bad thing, because it's not like Mihawk likely taught him everything, or Zoro picked up everything. From what we've seen so far, Mihawk taught Zoro haki and how to imbue his swords with CoA, not much else.

I agree, and it's weird that not only does he not get a serious fight, but his first one is against a captain that's usually reserved for Luffy.

Who SPECIFICALLY has put themselves on the way of Zoro and his dream?

Who has said, "I am attempting to YOU from achieving YOUR dream of becoming the WSS?"

I am genuinely curious because that has never happened as far as I'm aware.

They don't have to say that to be Zoro's obstacle, they just have to want to beat or kill him. Zoro's dream to become the world's greatest swordsman also depends on winning, and if his opponents try to kill him, that should be enough for them to be in the way of his dream. It doesn't have to be stated outright, especially when Luffy's usually the only one who constantly yells his dream out loud.

 

[Shasha23]

If thats the case he would have been called the Worlds Strongest Man not the World's Strongest SWORDSMAN.

Sword is the difference here.

Did they call Whitebeard the World's Strongest Naginata Wielder? Of course not, that would be ridiculous lol

You are completely missing the point, it is because he will become the strongest because of swords that is why he will be called WSS, if this was about skill with the blade then he would be called Worlds most Skilled Swordsman, but its not about skill its about the power they have that is why he will be dubbed World Strongest Swordsman

Yes swords are the difference since he is using them to become the strongest

Whitebeard was known for the gura gura no mi, not the bisento,

Tell me then why is Mihawk the Worlds Strongest Swordsman and not the Worlds Skillest Swordsman since you are implying this is about skill not strength LOL rediculous

 

[nik87]

2021 and people still dont know what STRONGEST swordsman in the world means.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

2021 and people still dont know what STRONGEST swordsman in the world means.

my man nik87 is back
Year 2021 will show what the future WSS is capable of