I am not sure that even the other Straw Hats know that Zoro trained under Mihawk. Zoro wouldn't let his captain feels guilty because the former was willing to throw his pride for the latter's sake (Kuma case comes to mind). Also, the Straw Hats don't seem to share each other's story that much. No one knew about Sanji's family before it was revealed to them. No one asked about Zoro's lost eye. No one before Arabasta knew Luffy had a brother. Heck, even Luffy himself explicitly said that he didn't want to hear about Nami's past way back in East Blue. They seem to respect each others' secret so much they won't even bother asking.
I am not sure that even the other Straw Hats know that Zoro trained under Mihawk. Zoro wouldn't let his captain feels guilty because the former was willing to throw his pride for the latter's sake (Kuma case comes to mind). Also, the Straw Hats don't seem to share each other's story that much. No one knew about Sanji's family before it was revealed to them. No one asked about Zoro's lost eye. No one before Arabasta knew Luffy had a brother. Heck, even Luffy himself explicitly said that he didn't want to hear about Nami's past way back in East Blue. They seem to respect each others' secret so much they won't even bother asking.
Garp has gotten pretty old by now, odds are he is nowhere near his prime. Meanwhile luffy has been creeping towards the admiral level since the fight against katakuri and zoro has substantially developed his haki as well which has produced incredible results rather quickly. Zoro being stronger than luffy is absurd of course but it's not a stretch that either woul have surpassed garp by now. That said, garp in his prime probably was an entirely different animal....
Garp has gotten pretty old by now, odds are he is nowhere near his prime. Meanwhile luffy has been creeping towards the admiral level since the fight against katakuri and zoro has substantially developed his haki as well which has produced incredible results rather quickly. Zoro being stronger than luffy is absurd of course but it's not a stretch that either woul have surpassed garp by now. That said, garp in his prime probably was an entirely different animal....
He didn't even say "by now", he said "this whole time since the timeskip".
But anyway, Luffy should have just now become a contender for old-man Rayleigh after mastering the emission and internal destruction haki that Rayleigh uses. Garp should be around Rayleigh's tier and they're equally aged. I can see Luffy and Zoro being arguably as strong as Garp, but nothing that decisive as to say Zoro has surpassed Garp.
And that reminds me to add Rayleigh to the list of people I think are still stronger than Zoro until proven otherwise.
Yes, this is close to EoS Zoro that we have in front of us. He may not look like that 99% of the time but when he goes all out, all those people fall.
If the clash with Fujitora in DR turned into life and death battle, Zoro would come out victorious.
His improvements will be minimal throughout the whole New World.
Blackbeard depends on whether Zoro can cut vibrations and how much those are affecting Zoro if he cant cut them, however, seeing that Zoro, at his best, can one shot Kaido who is by far the most durable being in OP, Blackbeard too is one step away from being offed. I am no longer giving the benefit of the doubt to any single barehanded combatant, including Dragon. I might reconsider it if he shows a weapon and is exceptionally strong.
Yes, this is close to EoS Zoro that we have in front of us. He may not look like that 99% of the time but when he goes all out, all those people fall.
If the clash with Fujitora in DR turned into life and death battle, Zoro would come out victorious.
His improvements will be minimal throughout the whole New World.
Blackbeard depends on whether Zoro can cut vibrations and how much those are affecting Zoro if he cant cut them, however, seeing that Zoro, at his best, can one shot Kaido who is by far the most durable being in OP, Blackbeard too is one step away from being offed. I am no longer giving the benefit of the doubt to any single barehanded combatant, including Dragon. I might reconsider it if he shows a weapon and is exceptionally strong.
But how can we talk about one-shotting Kaido before Zoro at least defeats him? If this is about current Zoro, we can't use feats that haven't happened.
But how can we talk about one-shotting Kaido before Zoro at least defeats him? If this is about current Zoro, we can't use feats that haven't happened.
Zoro can't defeat Kaido. That has nothing to do with Zoro being able to one-shot Kaido. Zoro can one-shot everyone.
However, those 4 that I listed above him, will never give him the opportunity to one-shot them.
Tatsumaki is a flying slash AOE move, it's cutting power is low and yet it is cutting Kaido, without Zoro giving his best...
Using feats only has always been a bad recipe. Now that Zoro is scoring feats, all other top tiers are looking bad.
Since this is a 5vs2, that will give Zoro the opportunity to kill Kaido, however, so far, he didnt need others to give him either an opening nor to protect them.
In fact, he has been protecting them and unnecessarily getting himself into trouble because of it.
For Kaido's sake, I hope he gives them a beating before the tide turns ultimately in Supernovas favor.
Also, it's been since Thriller Bark that Zoro accumulated tons of damage and pulled through.
It is a perfect opportunity to repeat that since it cannot happen in 1vs1 against swordsmen.
No. I have said the same for Zoro vs Kaido.
However, he is stronger than all the others aside from those 4, imo.
Zoro has been close to his EOS version the whole post-TS, he isnt shifting through gears, swordsmen dont do that...
They wait for an opening and strike to win. You can see yourself that none of his stats have improved in post-TS aside CoA, maybe.
It will remain so until the end of One Piece.
He didn't even say "by now", he said "this whole time since the timeskip".
But anyway, Luffy should have just now become a contender for old-man Rayleigh after mastering the emission and internal destruction haki that Rayleigh uses. Garp should be around Rayleigh's tier and they're equally aged. I can see Luffy and Zoro being arguably as strong as Garp, but nothing that decisive as to say Zoro has surpassed Garp.
And that reminds me to add Rayleigh to the list of people I think are still stronger than Zoro until proven otherwise.
Yeah, there is nothing too decisive here. If we go by hype alone you'd think prime garp at least was just short of a yonko considering the insanely high regard in which he is held by roger. Rayleigh also has a fair bit of hype behind him for that matter. And both are ultimately characters that definitely have been hit by age. Rayleigh probably even harder than garp considering garp has remained active even during retirement while rayleigh paraded around sambaody boozing for 22 years. Which speaks volumes of his ability to go toe to toe with kizaru who would be presumably at his prime. Now i am wondering who was stronger of the two back in the day (I kinda lean towards rayleigh tbh).
Garp has gotten pretty old by now, odds are he is nowhere near his prime. Meanwhile luffy has been creeping towards the admiral level since the fight against katakuri and zoro has substantially developed his haki as well which has produced incredible results rather quickly. Zoro being stronger than luffy is absurd of course but it's not a stretch that either woul have surpassed garp by now. That said, garp in his prime probably was an entirely different animal....
What's your basis on that even if it's just odds? Garp might be just as strong, if not stronger. He's from the same generation as Whitebeard and has not looked sick or seemed sick at all. I wouldn't be surprised if he could easily dispatch Zoro.
The powerup will be "completed" when he gets used to the blade and to how draining it is on his haki. Until then, although it made him stronger, it also puts him in constant risk of putting too much haki into an attack and getting exhausted
and potentially haki-less like Luffy, although I doubt that would happen in this fight.
Ever since the blade was introduced and it made Zoro cut that cliff, the misunderstanding was thinking that "Zoro only wanted to cut some tree branch, but Enma made his cut so much stronger! Imagine when he uses a serious attack just how strong his slash will be!", as if the blade simply upgraded his cuts, when in reality, what it did was taking Zoro's haki and emitting it into a bigger slash, something that Zoro would be able to do on his own but was forced by Enma against his will.
This means that mastering Enma will give Zoro greater control over his haki, and also, potentially, the ability to control how much haki Enma takes from him will help him pull big-ass attacks like the one from 1002 more easily, as the draining from the sword can be of help.
Given that it's still his haki, he should be able to pull cuts like these with Wado Ichimonji if he learns to channel so much haki without Enma's help, since Wado and Enma are of the same grade. Sandai Kitetsu, although not a bad sword, should never be able to replicate the same level of strength/sharpness of his other blades.
As to why Kaido has once again pointed at Enma after being cut, it's obviously because he recognizes the sword from when it already cut him once. He has a big trauma with Oden, so it stands to reason that the tools that traumatized him also trigger him in some way. There's nothing to suggest that Zoro is using Oden's power or anything of the sort and, to be honest, that would ruin his character badly. A character based around the search for strength and the bushido should never use someone else's power to fight his fights.
To this day I dont understand why people view Enma as a power-up when it has been clear from day 1 that the whole gimmick of the sword depends on Zoro's haki and the amount of haki he wishes to release, just like he has been doing it with all his swords long before Enma...
People seem to believe that Enma is some kind of haki amplifier, which has 0 basis in the manga.
The powerup will be "completed" when he gets used to the blade and to how draining it is on his haki. Until then, although it made him stronger, it also puts him in constant risk of putting too much haki into an attack and getting exhausted
and potentially haki-less like Luffy, although I doubt that would happen in this fight.
Ever since the blade was introduced and it made Zoro cut that cliff, the misunderstanding was thinking that "Zoro only wanted to cut some tree branch, but Enma made his cut so much stronger! Imagine when he uses a serious attack just how strong his slash will be!", as if the blade simply upgraded his cuts, when in reality, what it did was taking Zoro's haki and emitting it into a bigger slash, something that Zoro would be able to do on his own but was forced by Enma against his will.
This means that mastering Enma will give Zoro greater control over his haki, and also, potentially, the ability to control how much haki Enma takes from him will help him pull big-ass attacks like the one from 1002 more easily, as the draining from the sword can be of help.
Given that it's still his haki, he should be able to pull cuts like these with Wado Ichimonji if he learns to channel so much haki without Enma's help, since Wado and Enma are of the same grade. Sandai Kitetsu, although not a bad sword, should never be able to replicate the same level of strength/sharpness of his other blades.
As to why Kaido has once again pointed at Enma after being cut, it's obviously because he recognizes the sword from when it already cut him once. He has a big trauma with Oden, so it stands to reason that the tools that traumatized him also trigger him in some way. There's nothing to suggest that Zoro is using Oden's power or anything of the sort and, to be honest, that would ruin his character badly. A character based around the search for strength and the bushido should never use someone else's power to fight his fights.
Yea, Zoro will get a quick training arc to fast track his haki/ryou development just by using the word. The end goal being able to master haki/ryou, I think. And at that point I'd assume his skill with Wado and Kitetsu will be upgraded too. It's how I've been trying to get my head around Enma from a story perspective.
Thinking back to how Hiyori commented about Zoro having three sword style, and how people of Wano have laughed at his style, I believe Oda has set this up so that the three sword style will be a point of significance by the end of the arc. Oden was two sword style. At the moment, Enma is getting all the focus. To bring out Enma's full power, Zoro used ittoryuu, and it appears Zoro doesn't have Enma/ryou under full control yet. Oda hyped up that one attack, which I think was intentional from a narrative point of view because he's getting us to look at the one sword.
Presumably, Zoro wouldn't have hurt Kaido at that moment as much as Oden did with his two sword style attack that left the deep scar. Because it wouldn't make sense to me that Zoro, who I have assumed hasn't 'mastered Enma' yet, could exceed the output of Oden.
So, Enma is getting all the hype right now because it is really pushing Zoro to master ryou (not sure it's the same result as Luffy's advanced armament). The end result, which I agree with your comment about Wado also performing Enma-like feats, is Zoro can use his ryou with maximum control, and maximum output, with all his swords. THEN, the three sword style would be in full effect.
Another point that supports this claim is how Enma and Abe no Habakiri cut the same depth. Maybe Abe is the same as Enma, at drawing haki. OR, which is what I'm thinking, as someone who has mastered his control of ryou, the efficacy of Abe is the same as Enma because Oden can put out a lot of haki with any sword. And Oden got to this point the same way Zoro will.
If this were to be the direction Oda is taking things, it sets up a handover of Enma at the end of the arc if it was fitting. It's still a Great Grade sword, so it's still a fine weapon to keep on his hip (ie, just because the ryou training would be redundant (under my headcanon) doesn't mean Enma has no use).
I didn't bother weaving the 'black blade' progression Zoro still has with Enma or any sword, because quite frankly we need more info around this.
