Discussion Zoro Discussion Thread

[Pirate Queen]

i think garp vs roger shows that swords don't increase your attack power, while it makes sense in our world i don't think it applies in one piece, zoro's swords only did that much damage because his AP was that good. FS doesn't increase one's speed it only makes them better at reacting, while Kata is probably able to react to zoro i don't think he can dodge every hit, also ACoC users have dumb durabillity, zoro's durabillity is insane. He survived the double yonko attack, then defeated a yc1 with some healing. Even i he might of died from said attack blocking and tanking it in any metric is huge. Zoro probably has better haki pool then Kata tbh.

Zoro definitely has a greater haki pool than Katakuri, that was never the discussion. It's seems like you just not getting the point I'm making so we'll just have to end it here

 

[kkck]

I don't see current zoro losing to WCI katakuri tbh. Yes, katakuri has foresight but current zoro is probably well ahead of where WCI luffy was. Even if zoro has limited time at full power we are still talking about someone capable of cladding and whose attacks hit in a much higher weight class than where katakuri was. Zoro could manage king's offensive mode which was framed as being incredibly fast... There's no specific reason foresight pushes katakuri so absurdly high that he can simply wait out zoro. Zoro punches closer to kaido's tier than katakuri's as of now. While zoro is not a fully realized yonko level fighter he still can basically one shot katakuri. Add to that, cladding isn't strictly an offensive skill, the implication is pretty strong that it has defensive applications as well. Now, if katakuri has learned cladding since we last saw him that's a different issue.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I don't see current zoro losing to WCI katakuri tbh. Yes, katakuri has foresight but current zoro is probably well ahead of where WCI luffy was. Even if zoro has limited time at full power we are still talking about someone capable of cladding and whose attacks hit in a much higher weight class than where katakuri was. Zoro could manage king's offensive mode which was framed as being incredibly fast... There's no specific reason foresight pushes katakuri so absurdly high that he can simply wait out zoro. Zoro punches closer to kaido's tier than katakuri's as of now. While zoro is not a fully realized yonko level fighter he still can basically one shot katakuri. Add to that, cladding isn't strictly an offensive skill, the implication is pretty strong that it has defensive applications as well. Now, if katakuri has learned cladding since we last saw him that's a different issue.

You are implying Zoro has no limit to the amount of haki Zoro can utilize and we saw very clearly he uses so much Haki in KoH mode that he runs our of haki almost instantly. It's worse than Luffy's G4 limit.

Katakuri has the capability to outlast a mode that only lasts several minutes.

Zoro is closer to a YC1 than Kaido

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 17, 2023, Original Post Date: Jan 17, 2023 ---

Katakuri was fast enough to dodge G4 Snakeman. Zoro has not shown Snakeman or anything even close to that

 

[LadyVados]

ACoC does mean Zoro is AUTOMATICALLY stronger than everyone in the same tier as him i.e. Kidd, Law, Sanji, Jinbei, Marco, Katakuri, Sabo. But he is COMPARABLE.

Except Kidd, Law and Zoro aren’t in that tier.

Also why would Zoro need KoH against a guy with less attack power than new fishman pirates and pathetic durability.

 

[john ellis]

You are implying Zoro has no limit to the amount of haki Zoro can utilize and we saw very clearly he uses so much Haki in KoH mode that he runs our of haki almost instantly. It's worse than Luffy's G4 limit.

Katakuri has the capability to outlast a mode that only lasts several minutes.

Zoro is closer to a YC1 than Kaido

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 17, 2023, Original Post Date: Jan 17, 2023 ---

Katakuri was fast enough to dodge G4 Snakeman. Zoro has not shown Snakeman or anything even close to that

it's more so i don't buy kata being able to dodge zoro for 1-2 minutes

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Just realized that Mihawk is called "Marine Hunter" in the same way Zoro is called "Pirate Hunter". Probably means at some point that Mihawk was a bounty hunter like Zoro and that someone was out issuing bounties on Marines in the past (might be where Cross Guild got the idea).

Wonder if this means that Zoro and Mihawk will also have other similarities in their background like both being orphans, losing someone young that gave them a dream etc. I don't know if there was a WSS before Mihawk so would be interesting to learn more about it all.

 

[Fox666]

Just realized that Mihawk is called "Marine Hunter" in the same way Zoro is called "Pirate Hunter". Probably means at some point that Mihawk was a bounty hunter like Zoro and that someone was out issuing bounties on Marines in the past (might be where Cross Guild got the idea).

Wonder if this means that Zoro and Mihawk will also have other similarities in their background like both being orphans, losing someone young that gave them a dream etc. I don't know if there was a WSS before Mihawk so would be interesting to learn more about it all.

I don't think that's the case. Mihawk was a pirate, the Marines were his natural enemies. It's just unusual for a pirate intentionally going after the Marines.

 

[grey matter]

I don't think that's the case. Mihawk was a pirate, the Marines were his natural enemies. It's just unusual for a pirate intentionally going after the Marines.

Mihawk isn't a pirate in any real sense.
He doesn't care for pillaging, taking over towns, or adventuring/sailing.

He just wants to fight powerful swordsmen, and be left alone when he's not fighting.

He's probably like Zoro in that sense. Doesn't care for much in life except for fighting.

 

[XXGenesis]

Mihawk was inspired by Roger like many others. He was & still is a Pirate. We’ve seen throughout the series Pirates all partake in their own activities. But once you fly that Jolly Roger, you’re a Pirate.

 

[Fox666]

Mihawk isn't a pirate in any real sense.
He doesn't care for pillaging, taking over towns, or adventuring/sailing.

He just wants to fight powerful swordsmen, and be left alone when he's not fighting.

He's probably like Zoro in that sense. Doesn't care for much in life except for fighting.

There's no reason to assume Mihawk was less of a pirate than any other

He was present at Roger's execution, and the databooks confirm his dream is to become Pirate King, along Crocodile and Moriah

 

[grey matter]

Mihawk was inspired by Roger like many others. He was & still is a Pirate. We’ve seen throughout the series Pirates all partake in their own activities. But once you fly that Jolly Roger, you’re a Pirate.

There's no reason to assume Mihawk was less of a pirate than any other

He was present at Roger's execution

Right, but what is generally associated with pirates in the series? Usually the following:
- treasure hunting
- power
- pillaging
- adventure

Mihawk doesn't seek any of that.

But yes, I get the point of Roger's execution. He was amongst the next gen ("mid gen" as we call it) taking after the old gen.

the databooks confirm his dream is to become Pirate King, along Crocodile and Moriah

Is that so?

Dude rejected the Yonko position, why? I presume Yonko (i.e leader of a powerful pirate crew) is like a precursor to being PK?

 

[Fox666]

Is that so?

Dude rejected the Yonko position, why? I presume Yonko (i.e leader of a powerful pirate crew) is like a precursor to being PK?

Mihawk didn't rejected the position of Yonko because he was never offered.

Mihawk said he has no interest in the title because it would put a target on his back, but he prefers to live peacefully.

We don't know if Mihawk could become a Yonko if he wanted.


In order to become the Pirate King someone has to conquer the Grand Line, which requires finding the One Piece. Being a Yonko is not really necessary.

However, Luffy never wanted to become a Yonko. He was just called that because he defeated Kaido.

 

[HereNThere]

While his current demeanor doesn't really demonstrate the stereotypical trappings of a Pirate, that doesn't mean he wasn't associated with Pirates or pirating it up back in the day. It could just be that he straight-up decided to attack the Marines for the hell of it and was labeled a pirate for that. Maybe he was closely associated with a Pirate or even sailed under a Jolly Roger for a period, which would also label him a pirate. Either way, the series classifies Mihawk as a pirate, so he's a pirate.

And yeah, Zoro is the same. He (and a few other Strawhats for that matter) don't really fall into the typical trappings of what makes a "pirate", but since he associates with Pirates and sails under Luffy's Jolly Roger, he's a Pirate.

As for their similarities, I imagine there likely will be some juxtaposition. Mihawk's drawing as a child seemed to imply he was poor, so he may indeed be an orphan, but I think the main point of comparison will be how Zoro basically has people he trusts around him to spur him on while Mihawk kept people at a distance due to trust issues and that may play into his current feelings or preference for isolation.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

I don't think that's the case. Mihawk was a pirate, the Marines were his natural enemies. It's just unusual for a pirate intentionally going after the Marines.

But to call him a hunter means he was going out of his way pursuing the marines. Otherwise what made him any different from other pirates who took down marines in self defense?

As we get closer to the Zoro v Mihawk fight I think we are going to see more and more parallels between them. I'm betting Oda is also saving learning more about Zoro's past so we can get that info around the same time we get info on Mihawk.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 6, 2023, Original Post Date: Feb 6, 2023 ---

As for their similarities, I imagine there likely will be some juxtaposition. Mihawk's drawing as a child seemed to imply he was poor, so he may indeed be an orphan, but I think the main point of comparison will be how Zoro basically has people he trusts around him to spur him on while Mihawk kept people at a distance due to trust issues and that may play into his current feelings or preference for isolation.

That would be a pretty cool juxtaposition. Maybe like fighting for someone else is more of a motivator than fighting for ones self (assuming Mihawk is doing it soley for himself). Would also be ironic since Mihawk will be one of the people that Zoro leaned on for support too.

We don't think about it much but the SHs have spent more time with their "training masters" then they've spent with each other. Zoro should know Mihawk better than anyone in his crew if they actually ever talked

 

[kkck]

Just realized that Mihawk is called "Marine Hunter" in the same way Zoro is called "Pirate Hunter". Probably means at some point that Mihawk was a bounty hunter like Zoro and that someone was out issuing bounties on Marines in the past (might be where Cross Guild got the idea).

Wonder if this means that Zoro and Mihawk will also have other similarities in their background like both being orphans, losing someone young that gave them a dream etc. I don't know if there was a WSS before Mihawk so would be interesting to learn more about it all.

Hmmmm, I don't think it tracks that mihawk would have collected bounties on marines specifically. Also, he had many duels with shanks. Mihawk kinda gives the feel that at some point he was a combat maniac who picked fights with strong people for the sake of testing his skills.

 

[McNuss]

I don't think that's the case. Mihawk was a pirate, the Marines were his natural enemies. It's just unusual for a pirate intentionally going after the Marines.

Mihawk is presumed to have looked for challenge upon challenge, until he was not challenged anymore. It's been hinted he retired since then and only started to catch back up when the Shishibukai where abolished.

I think at this point it is possible that Zoro already beat Mihawk. The eye scar being unexplained for hundreds upon hundreds of chapter is unusual and weird.

And the duel between the two is kinda detached from the rest of the plot. An organization with Crocodile and Buggy is hardly going to be an antagonist.

Luffy beat two Shishibukai pre-ts, why shouldn't Zoro beat one with continuous training?

He'll make him badass mthrfcker over 9000 so readers can cope with his coming out

 

[Fox666]

Mihawk is presumed to have looked for challenge upon challenge, until he was not challenged anymore. It's been hinted he retired since then and only started to catch back up when the Shishibukai where abolished.

I think at this point it is possible that Zoro already beat Mihawk. The eye scar being unexplained for hundreds upon hundreds of chapter is unusual and weird.

And the duel between the two is kinda detached from the rest of the plot. An organization with Crocodile and Buggy is hardly going to be an antagonist.

Luffy beat two Shishibukai pre-ts, why shouldn't Zoro beat one with continuous training?

He'll make him badass mthrfcker over 9000 so readers can cope with his coming out

So by the time the timeskip started, Zoro had already beaten a 3 billion pirate, who can rival a Yonko?

 

[XXGenesis]

Zoro’s eye scar is more than likely from, having an intense sparring session with Mihawk and getting injured due to their vast difference in ability back then.

Zoro since the time skip has not alluded to any victory of the sort over Mihawk. It makes no sense he would have defeated a Yonkou lv character in anyway back then.

 

[McNuss]

So by the time the timeskip started, Zoro had already beaten a 3 billion pirate, who can rival a Yonko?

You think Zoro would achieve his goal on a straight course?

We don't know what his frozen bounty was. Could well have been 160M.
He also didn't rival any Yonko in the present storyline. That was the past. Present Mihawk couldn't scratch Jozu and was gardening with Perona and baboons.

Zoro vs Mihawk was cool when Baratie Arc came out and we were little kids.
Nowadays, let's be honest it can only come out as a disappointment. People anticipate the omegalul monstrosity of a fight, but Zoro is not Luffy and Luffy has set the bar quite high. You think anyone besides Luffy gets a fight longer than five chapters?

Back then the distribution was a bit different, stakes were also much lower, plot less dense. East Blue Arc is mostly a better written Dragon Ball with Pirates and ethics. It's here were Zoro vs Mihawk belongs, really.

Current story...Honestly three chapters of Pre-skip Zoro beating Mihawk in a flashback while he slices Shiryu in half sounds more satisfying then 3 chapters of current Zoro beating Mihawk in present time.

Honestly there's not even character development for Zoro left, he already can do anything now. People want a bossfight equivalent to a vs Katakuri or vs Kaido, but what is even going to happen in there? Zoro's fights are always the same:

Zoro: "I can't cut you!"

Enemy: "That's right you can't cut me!"

Zoro: "Lol just kidding"

*slash*

The entire WSS thing is stupid, as hinted in the story, where it never made much sense and now where we are at the point that entire countries get blasted to smitherens by deranged world kings...

If there's any positive message behind Zoro vs Mihawk (East Blue), then that fighting just for the lulz is retarded. Zoro already moved past that when he asked Mihawk to train him, so he could be stronger for Luffy. And they say that Love is like a Hurricane, can't see Mihawk dealing with that.

You know whats the opposite of King of Hell? King of Heaven! Zoro is totally on a new goal, you know he just wants to be by his side...

 

[Fox666]

You think Zoro would achieve his goal on a straight course?

We don't know what his frozen bounty was. Could well have been 160M.
He also didn't rival any Yonko in the present storyline. That was the past. Present Mihawk couldn't scratch Jozu and was gardening with Perona and baboons.

Zoro vs Mihawk was cool when Baratie Arc came out and we were little kids.
Nowadays, let's be honest it can only come out as a disappointment. People anticipate the omegalul monstrosity of a fight, but Zoro is not Luffy and Luffy has set the bar quite high. You think anyone besides Luffy gets a fight longer than five chapters?

Back then the distribution was a bit different, stakes were also much lower, plot less dense. East Blue Arc is mostly a better written Dragon Ball with Pirates and ethics. It's here were Zoro vs Mihawk belongs, really.

Current story...Honestly three chapters of Pre-skip Zoro beating Mihawk in a flashback while he slices Shiryu in half sounds more satisfying then 3 chapters of current Zoro beating Mihawk in present time.

Honestly there's not even character development for Zoro left, he already can do anything now. People want a bossfight equivalent to a vs Katakuri or vs Kaido, but what is even going to happen in there? Zoro's fights are always the same:



The entire WSS thing is stupid, as hinted in the story, where it never made much sense and now where we are at the point that entire countries get blasted to smitherens by deranged world kings...

If there's any positive message behind Zoro vs Mihawk (East Blue), then that fighting just for the lulz is retarded. Zoro already moved past that when he asked Mihawk to train him, so he could be stronger for Luffy. And they say that Love is like a Hurricane, can't see Mihawk dealing with that.

You know whats the opposite of King of Hell? King of Heaven! Zoro is totally on a new goal, you know he just wants to be by his side...

Do you really want to argue about Mihawk's powerlevel?

He got a bounty of 3 billion and was said to be a stronger swordsman than Shanks. He's estabilished as a Yonko level character now.

Mihawk couldn't get past Vista? Don't take powerlevels in One Piece too serious. It's still better than Apoo humilhating Luffy and Zoro.


Anyway, story-wise it makes zero sense that Zoro defeated Mihawk during the time-skip. That would make him much stronger than his captain. Luffy had to use a desperate techinque like Gear 4, when he had a much stronger Shichibukai-beating crewmate around?