Fantasy Zoro v Kaido

[King Moe]

Stop with the downplaying it wasnt a "one shot".

It is. First attack he got focus by Kaido and he got knockout. If you compare to rest like Luffy, Kidd, Law, and even Killer who took on multiple attacks on Yonko and still standing. Zoro's durablity won't last taking Kaido's attack if he starts to try. That isn't downplay, it what we saw early.

 

[Nie Li]

It is. First attack he got focus by Kaido and he got knockout. If you compare to rest like Luffy, Kidd, Law, and even Killer who took on multiple attacks on Yonko and still standing. Zoro's durablity won't last taking Kaido's attack if he starts to try. That isn't downplay, it what we saw early.

That is not a oneshot.

A oneshot is when a fully healed and ready fighter gets downed in a single hit. Zoro was far from oneshotted in this fight. You're taking feats away from Zoro "because it's a teamfight", but you suddenly ignore the damage Zoro had tanked from both Big Mom and Kaido himself before Kaido hit him. And that's without taking into account the damage Zoro had already sustained from Apoo and from the gifters.

I do believe Kaido would win against current Zoro in a 1vs1, but there's no reason to downplay everything about him like you're doing, as usual.

 

[King Moe]

That is not a oneshot.

A oneshot is when a fully healed and ready fighter gets downed in a single hit. Zoro was far from oneshotted in this fight. You're taking feats away from Zoro "because it's a teamfight", but you suddenly ignore the damage Zoro had tanked from both Big Mom and Kaido himself before Kaido hit him. And that's without taking into account the damage Zoro had already sustained from Apoo and from the gifters.

I do believe Kaido would win against current Zoro in a 1vs1, but there's no reason to downplay everything about him like you're doing, as usual.

Zoro hasn't shown durability to withstand Kaido back to back like Luffy, Kidd, and Law showed especially on Luffy's side.

Not saying won't get hits in, but stop pretending Kaido trues, he won't be heavily damage. You can tell difference of attack that for trying or not. We not putting Big Mom's Lightning Attack on same level getting hit by a club by Kaido

Also you kinda prove my point. Apoo was struggle for him in one on one. Shows more if it was one on one with Kaido it be more Low-Diffed, he isn't getting far unless Kaido wants take his time to let him attack like he usual does. Though no denying Kaido if he 'tries' it is more to one-shot.

 

[Nie Li]

Zoro hasn't shown durability to withstand Kaido back to back like Luffy, Kidd, and Law showed especially on Luffy's side.

What attacks from Kaido did Kidd withstand? Tell me.

Not saying won't get hits in, but stop pretending Kaido trues, he won't be heavily damage. You can tell difference of attack that for trying or not. We not putting Big Mom's Lightning Attack on same level getting hit by a club by Kaido

Also you kinda prove my point. Apoo was struggle for him in one on one. Shows more if it was one on one with Kaido it be more Low-Diffed, he isn't getting far unless Kaido wants take his time to let him attack like he usual does. Though no denying Kaido if he 'tries' it is more to one-shot.

Yeah, nothing of these two paragraphs relates to what I said.

 

[King Moe]

What attacks from Kaido did Kidd withstand? Tell me.


Yeah, nothing of these two paragraphs relates to what I said.

Full Zoan or Hybrid?

They do. Though your choice on not wanting answer them. My stance still stands on Kidd and Law.

 

[Nie Li]

Full Zoan or Hybrid?

Why are you asking for the form? Kaido never hit Kidd on-panel in any form. Yet you claim he has shown more durability to withstand Kaido than Zoro did.

 

[King Moe]

Why are you asking for the form? Kaido never hit Kidd on-panel in any form. Yet you claim he has shown more durability to withstand Kaido than Zoro did.

He did attack him with Luffy and Law and survived that on respectively their own. Hasn't come into contact on Hybrid Kaido yet, but his feats with Big Mom does push more on his capabilities given they are equals.

 

[Nie Li]

He did attack him with Luffy and Law and survived that on respectively their own. Hasn't come into contact on Hybrid Kaido yet, but his feats with Big Mom does push more on his capabilities given they are equals.

What feats? Surviving a haki-less punch and two thunder attacks? (none of which dealt big damage to anyone),

Do you seriously believe that's more than Zoro has tanked so far on Onigashima before falling?

I don't remember Kid taking on any attack from Kaido. If it happened, show me where.

 

[King Moe]

What feats? Surviving a haki-less punch and two thunder attacks? (none of which dealt big damage to anyone),

Do you seriously believe that's more than Zoro has tanked so far on Onigashima before falling?

I don't remember Kid taking on any attack from Kaido. If it happened, show me where.

Can't say it doesn't have Haki given invisible Haki is shown and when has Zoro survive any of that? First attack by Kaido has him knockout. It was like with Scabbards.

Tanking an Yonko's physical power and sending them flying in the air with ease is huge feat and pretending Zoro is immune is headcannon.

Give me a bit on that then.

 

[XXGenesis]

King Moe in Zoro threads hating and detracting....Normal.

Zoro vs Kaido. Imo would happen similar to the same way Oden vs Kaido went.

Oden vs Kaido was a short fight; The battle lasted no more than a day probably a few hours..it was 11 vs 1,000.

Kaido’s beast form is his weakest form; Boro breathe & wind Scythes don’t work against Zoro. Zoro almost landed a deadly attack against Kaido’s beast form already. So I say Zoro does the same thing to Beast Kaido as Oden did.

Kaido would go Human mode & Thunder Baiga Zoro who Imo would block some of the attack but still get injured......From here I won’t be too creative with my imagination. But it ends the same way we saw in the manga.

Zoro vs Kaido. Is simple, Zoro outlast his beast form getting in a few good attacks. Human form Kaido is gonna damage Zoro....Zoro won’t last too much longer but it’ll end with his Asura attack for a scar..While Kiado Kills or Knocks Zoro’s lights out.

I don’t think Hybrid Form would be needed. In a 1 vs 1.

 

[Nie Li]

Can't say it doesn't have Haki given invisible Haki is shown and when has Zoro survive any of that? First attack by Kaido has him knockout. It was like with Scabbards.

Tanking an Yonko's physical power and sending them flying in the air with ease is huge feat and pretending Zoro is immune is headcannon.

Stop mixing things. We were talking about durability; sending BM flying was a DF feat, not a durability feat, and I've never said Zoro is "immune" to anything.

Invisible haki is the weakest form of CoA. She didn't use black armament nor CoC.

You're willingly ignoring Zoro was already so injured that he could barely stand up when Kaido hit him. That is not a one-shot. That's like if at the end of Enies Lobby, when Luffy had just defeated Lucci and couldn't move, Blueno appeared and knocked him out with one kick. Would that be "a one shot"? No.

Zoro is the SN that has taken the harshest physical punishment so far on Onigashima, and it was highlighter when he briefly stopped Big Mom and Kaido's combined attack. Law was genuinely surprised Zoro could still keep fighting "as every bone in his body should have shattered". That tells me two things: 1- Law's durability is likely lower, as he thinks a human body can't take that attack like Zoro did. 2- Law can't keep fighting after taking as much punishment as Zoro took.

Now I'll wait for you to back your claims and show me Kid taking on a single attack from Kaido.

 

[King Moe]

Stop mixing things. We were talking about durability; sending BM flying was a DF feat, not a durability feat, and I've never said Zoro is "immune" to anything.

Invisible haki is the weakest form of CoA. She didn't use black armament nor CoC.

You're willingly ignoring Zoro was already so injured that he could barely stand up when Kaido hit him. That is not a one-shot. That's like if at the end of Enies Lobby, when Luffy had just defeated Lucci and couldn't move, Blueno appeared and knocked him out with one kick. Would that be "a one shot"? No.

Zoro is the SN that has taken the harshest physical punishment so far on Onigashima, and it was highlighter when he briefly stopped Big Mom and Kaido's combined attack. Law was genuinely surprised Zoro could still keep fighting "as every bone in his body should have shattered". That tells me two things: 1- Law's durability is likely lower, as he thinks a human body can't take that attack like Zoro did. 2- Law can't keep fighting after taking as much punishment as Zoro took.

Now I'll wait for you to back your claims and show me Kid taking on a single attack from Kaido.

Not mixing it up. Kidd tanked her punch and send her flying the next. That is big feat on Kidd and Zoro hasn't shown to push back Yonko like Kidd just did with Big Mom. Whether it was his physical power or DF, it doesn't matter given it still something he did and feat to him.

Not ignoring him, just using logic especially it's the guy with metal swords vs the guy with magnetic powers and one of major rivals to Luffy. Thinking Zoro has a chance to beat him is headcannon and those examples your using isn't one-shot at all. Your now changing subject onto something else.

Idk about that. When Kidd took a punch to the face and to the ground that was hard to see while Law tanked Kaido's club and still moving himself, so can't say Zoro is only one getting hit as the rest especially Luffy has taken more than him.

Sure thing then.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 24, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 24, 2021 ---

King Moe in Zoro threads hating and detracting....Normal.

Zoro vs Kaido. Imo would happen similar to the same way Oden vs Kaido went.

Oden vs Kaido was a short fight; The battle lasted no more than a day probably a few hours..it was 11 vs 1,000.

Kaido’s beast form is his weakest form; Boro breathe & wind Scythes don’t work against Zoro. Zoro almost landed a deadly attack against Kaido’s beast form already. So I say Zoro does the same thing to Beast Kaido as Oden did.

Kaido would go Human mode & Thunder Baiga Zoro who Imo would block some of the attack but still get injured......From here I won’t be too creative with my imagination. But it ends the same way we saw in the manga.

Zoro vs Kaido. Is simple, Zoro outlast his beast form getting in a few good attacks. Human form Kaido is gonna damage Zoro....Zoro won’t last too much longer but it’ll end with his Asura attack for a scar..While Kiado Kills or Knocks Zoro’s lights out.

I don’t think Hybrid Form would be needed. In a 1 vs 1.

Saying Kaido beats Zoro is 'hating'? You got insecurity issues if you can't see gap between Oden and Zoro as they weren't same as one face Kaido alone while other needed help with 5 characters. Saying Zoro is on Oden's level is very headacnnon and Zoro will lose the fight regardless, Kaido tanked his Asura and didn't go down, but your stating Zoro can still give much despite the fact one club hit got him knockout? Again what happens in team fight doesn't say same thing in solo fight. Thinking Zoro will tanked or handle his attacks is headcannon if he choose to be serious. He hasn't even shown full power of his Hybrid and show Awakening yet and you think he can handle that? Now your overhyping and being illogical if you can't accept that.

 

[Nie Li]

Not mixing it up. Kidd tanked her punch and send her flying the next. That is big feat on Kidd and Zoro hasn't shown to push back Yonko like Kidd just did with Big Mom. Whether it was his physical power or DF, it doesn't matter given it still something he did and feat to him.

Alright, we were talking about durabilities, but if you want to compare random feats: Kid pushed Big Mom with his DF, Zoro scarred Kaido with his sword (an actual scar, not like the injuries from the Scabbards or Law, which won't even leave a scar).

Not ignoring him, just using logic especially it's the guy with metal swords vs the guy with magnetic powers and one of major rivals to Luffy. Thinking Zoro has a chance to beat him is headcannon and those examples your using isn't one-shot at all. Your now changing subject onto something else.

You keep mixing things. We were comparing stats and you go back around to compatibility, ignoring everything else.

Idk about that. When Kidd took a punch to the face and to the ground that was hard to see while Law tanked Kaido's club and still moving himself, so can't say Zoro is only one getting hit as the rest especially Luffy has taken more than him.

Sure thing then.

You just don't want to acknowledge it for the same reason as always.

 

[King Moe]

Alright, we were talking about durabilities, but if you want to compare random feats: Kid pushed Big Mom with his DF, Zoro scarred Kaido with his sword (an actual scar, not like the injuries from the Scabbards or Law, which won't even leave a scar).


You keep mixing things. We were comparing stats and you go back around to compatibility, ignoring everything else.


You just don't want to acknowledge it for the same reason as always.

Yeah because of Enma, not truly on skill otherwise we would see other swords leave a mark, but we only saw one cut. Doesn't push you to be more by that logic unless your saying Zoro is above Luffy cause he hasn't scar Kaido? Again, Zoro got certain feats I give credit, but it not huge jump over everyone in the arc.

You didn't really debate that paragraph so Idk what you mean there.

Nah, I acknowledge Zoro leaving a scar, but not overhyping him to be over Yonko like you guys forcing him to be so close when he isn't.

 

[Nie Li]

Yeah because of Enma, not truly on skill otherwise we would see other swords leave a mark, but we only saw one cut. Doesn't push you to be more by that logic unless your saying Zoro is above Luffy cause he hasn't scar Kaido? Again, Zoro got certain feats I give credit, but it not huge jump over everyone in the arc.

"Yeah, because of Enma"? You get more biased every month.

You disregard Zoro's feats because:
- "It's a teamfight"
- "he used Enma, not truly on skill"

But you totally embrace Kidd's feats despite:
- It being the same teamfight.
- He used his DF for that "feat", which was a simple push, his most basic DF technique.

You didn't really debate that paragraph so Idk what you mean there.

Nah, I acknowledge Zoro leaving a scar, but not overhyping him to be over Yonko like you guys forcing him to be so close when he isn't.

No, you don't acknowledge anything tangible. You are never objective and you jump between different topics once you're losing a point to "avoid" losing it.

And nobody here is saying he's above the Yonkou.[/QUOTE]

 

[King Moe]

"Yeah, because of Enma"? You get more biased every month.

You disregard Zoro's feats because:
- "It's a teamfight"
- "he used Enma, not truly on skill"

But you totally embrace Kidd's feats despite:
- It being the same teamfight.
- He used his DF for that "feat", which was a simple push, his most basic DF technique.


No, you don't acknowledge anything tangible. You are never objective and you jump between different topics once you're losing a point to "avoid" losing it.

And nobody here is saying he's above the Yonkou.

Not biased if Kaido is calling Enma 'Oden's Spirit' over the one holding it and Big Mom refer to the sword to. Though do go on ignoring context since that what you been doing with everyone.

Team fight matters. When Zoro can move around without Law saving him and helping him, we can talk if he can match with same way with Kaido in one on one. Him being saved by Law when Kaido is charging him and not him moving out his own speed shows he wouldn't get by far if Kaido wants to 'try' on his side.

I mean not pushing Kidd on higher tier, but they are increasing, but do see Kidd showing a bit more given he wants to fight Big Mom on his own, so that showing a lot especially if he doing what Luffy is doing, he is more justified being above Zoro.

So we using DFs having issue now. I guess Luffy is featless for using DF for his feats then. Nice logic there. Please respect abilities and not say you have to fight without your power to gained feats. That is biased notion your pushing especially Zoro using Enma wasn't his own power either.

Few I have seen are pushing him close to one. You should check around discussion when that happen.

 

[Nie Li]

Not biased if Kaido is calling Enma 'Oden's Spirit' over the one holding it and Big Mom refer to the sword to. Though do go on ignoring context since that what you been doing with everyone.

When Zoro scarred Kaido, Kaido acknowledged Zoro as the one who dealt that wound, not Enma specifically. Yes, Zoro pulled it off thanks to Enma, so what?

Team fight matters. When Zoro can move around without Law saving him and helping him, we can talk if he can match with same way with Kaido in one on one. Him being saved by Law when Kaido is charging him and not him moving out his own speed shows he wouldn't get by far if Kaido wants to 'try' on his side.

I mean not pushing Kidd on higher tier, but they are increasing, but do see Kidd showing a bit more given he wants to fight Big Mom on his own, so that showing a lot especially if he doing what Luffy is doing, he is more justified being above Zoro.

So we using DFs having issue now. I guess Luffy is featless for using DF for his feats then. Nice logic there. Please respect abilities and not say you have to fight without your power to gained feats. That is biased notion your pushing especially Zoro using Enma wasn't his own power either.

Few I have seen are pushing him close to one. You should check around discussion when that happen.

When Zoro scarred Kaido, Kaido acknowledged Zoro as the one who dealt that wound, not Enma specifically. Yes, Zoro pulled it off thanks to Enma, so what? Kaido referrenced "Oden spirit" because the sword felt familiar until he finally noticed the reason (simply that "it was his sword". You're holding on to that and ignoring that he referred to Zoro over the sword when Zoro cut him well.

No, I don't have an issue with DFs, I'm literally just using your logic. Having an issue with Zoro using Enma is literally the same as having an issue with acknowledging DFs. If you want to argue that "it's not his own power so it doesn't count", yet you count DF feats, then you're being hypocritical. If you take away Zoro's feats, you should take away Big Mom's homies and Luffy's gears.

I don't have an issue with DF feats, just like I don't have an issue with Enma. And yes, Enma's power is actually Zoro's. Enma forcefully takes more than the user intends, as canonically explained inside the manga, but it still uses purely Zoro's haki for the cuts. He just lacks the skill to perform that haki output on his own, for now, but he has enough haki for it. That's what Enma is showing.

Please respect abilities, please stop randomly changing subjects and please try to have a single healthy unbiased debate sometimes. I'm done with this one.

 

[King Moe]

When Zoro scarred Kaido, Kaido acknowledged Zoro as the one who dealt that wound, not Enma specifically. Yes, Zoro pulled it off thanks to Enma, so what? Kaido referrenced "Oden spirit" because the sword felt familiar until he finally noticed the reason (simply that "it was his sword". You're holding on to that and ignoring that he referred to Zoro over the sword when Zoro cut him well.

No, I don't have an issue with DFs, I'm literally just using your logic. Having an issue with Zoro using Enma is literally the same as having an issue with acknowledging DFs. If you want to argue that "it's not his own power so it doesn't count", yet you count DF feats, then you're being hypocritical. If you take away Zoro's feats, you should take away Big Mom's homies and Luffy's gears.

I don't have an issue with DF feats, just like I don't have an issue with Enma. And yes, Enma's power is actually Zoro's. Enma forcefully takes more than the user intends, as canonically explained inside the manga, but it still uses purely Zoro's haki for the cuts. He just lacks the skill to perform that haki output on his own, for now, but he has enough haki for it. That's what Enma is showing.

Please respect abilities, please stop randomly changing subjects and please try to have a single healthy unbiased debate sometimes. I'm done with this one.

Still why wasn't more to the scar and no he wasn't talking to Zoro when saying Oden, he was talking sword every time he attacks. It pushed more it was Enma that did that then his skill. Plus why no cuts from other swords if that is the case? We didn't see other cuts compare to Oden who uses both of his swords to leave a mark.

Emma and DFs are completely different. DFs are apart of you and your skill, Enma is a sword you can have anyone use. Give to Kaido and he make it dangerous for everyone due to his Haki. Not much skill going into that especially his talk about that sword being 'special'. If it was skill by Zoro, he would talk about the sword past chapters like that without reason. Just stating evidence from what we seen here.

I do, but your stating now Luffy and those who use DFs which are deeply apart of them are featless, it's not like holding a weapon and you can take off hands of someone like Enma, it is apart of their beings. Not same thihng and you need to respect opinions and evidence on others on this.

Agree To Disagree then. Kidd and Law are still stronger than Zoro, no shame to that as he gotten stronger, but not over everyone in the arc.