Just FYI, I voted Goodnight Punpun.
Thank you, but I'm pretty sure Demon did too. He also suggested to take out FMA... so by bringing this point up you have slightly given NNT the edge now.
You absolutely can ^^ Even I am supporting Kingdom despite my waifu losing to Atom's in the WW! Kingdom is really good, it would be a shame to vote against it for such a trivial reason
My friend!You absolutely can ^^ Even I am supporting Kingdom despite my waifu losing to Atom's in the WW! Kingdom is really good, it would be a shame to vote against it for such a trivial reason
But you lost to HxH that I was supporting in this eventYou absolutely can ^^ Even I am supporting Kingdom despite my waifu losing to Atom's in the WW! Kingdom is really good, it would be a shame to vote against it for such a trivial reason
.
It's Kingdom I am defending here; your behaviour in the WW was an absolute disgrace indeed! I won't forget so easilyMy friend!
Hm, you must have seen how hard I campaigned and how sad and angry I was when Magi lost, right? ^^But you lost to HxH that I was supporting in this event
Sorry Kouhai-kun, but this is war.
Maybe one day I will actually get over myself and give it a try despite the art looking bad to me, but for now Nanatsu gets my vote.
I think this is a great post mod kun, but slow down there with the predictable ending part.It's about time you stop acting as if Seinen was superior to Shounen in every way man . I know the setting of Kingdom and I prefer NNT's. Wars between people is something we see IRL From what I have read of Kingdom I do think that it's better written than NNT, but manga is not just about that. Entertainment matters, and the hype from NNT's battles is more entertaining than anything I have read in Kingdom. In general, I prefer a fantasy setting compared to more realistic ones.
Plus Kingdom is a historical manga, there is no way Hara doesn't add things but he is using elements of a real story. It's easier to write the plot for series like this in general and the end is more predictable.
Savage characters?
.Seinen tend to have more mature themes than shonen because they are allowed to show more but in the end what matters the most is the writing. A good writer being published in a shonen mag can write about mature themes better than seinen(not that I think that having mature theme makes a series better anyway). Plenty of mainstream shonen have mature themes in certain arcs. Death Note and SnK are good but I don't find them particularly brilliant, Death note's second half is noticeably weaker than the first. FMA is more mature than both IMO and all of JoJo's parts could fit in a shonen magazine.But they are
But seriously, I think there are plenty of shonen that have merit. I just think there are more seinan that are great then there are shonen, and the most of the shonen that are great usually have a lot of qualities you'd find in seinan (Take Death Note, AoT, HxH, Jojo etc....). The best example I can think of of a shonen that sticks to the tone of shonen but is still brilliant is FMA, however I dont think many shonen even touch that level of writing and attention to detail (including NNT).
Jojo might be my favourite series of all time, and it was a shonen for 6 of its 8 arcs. I'm not being cynical on these shonen for no reason.
I do know that the execution will make a lot of things different and that things can be added, but in the end a historical is a historical. Writers can only add more details for the ending. We all knew Naruto would become Hokage, we all know Luffy will become the Pirate King and we know what will happen at the end of Kingdom. In NNT, I don't find the ending is that predictable, obviously it will be a happy ending but with all the different goals of the MCs, I would say only King, Diane and Ban's fates are predictable.
I could say the same for plenty seinen as well but again what matters the most is the execution. Araki is following the monster of the week format for JoJo since SC and he is still successful. All of this can't be generalized so easily. Ironically you find that Escanor is the best part of NNT even though Nakaba followed the same formula for his fights so far. Why? Because it is simply that entertaining.
I am surprised you mentioned "Plot". Let's not even talk about that because there is no way Kingdom can be generally viewed better than NNT in that departmentSorry for being late, this thread was posted near 3AM my time and I've been busy in the day.
Anyways, I briefly outlined what Kingdom was about last post.
Kingdom has a really well-written story. While the story is actually structured rather linearly, the different subplots and arcs are set up in an overarching manner. It has a really solid and well laid out plot (and no, I don't mean "plot" although that too is present with https://i.redd.it/3tx412na8gyx.jpg
this hot chick) of the conquest of China however it isn't as simple as it sounds.
. NNT's plot isn't supposed to be complex as well, but it has its twists and intense moments.We have that.
That as well.
Same for those two, I could even say three but I won't because that would be really stupid of me.
Classic promotion lines: All the characters are great. I could say the same for NNT but I don't believe it myself. I can't believe you when you say that, especially since I read some of Kingdom myself.On top of that, the characters have a lot of depth and development and are very interesting likeable, especially some like Ouki, Kanki, Renpa etc and each of them feel special and unique (sorry no Ribokui guys @Aizen@The President@Brandish
... Can't really say anything against that, but fantasy setting has its charms and in terms of battle sequences I don't think Kingdom can be superior.
Savagery is either done through extreme violence or extreme dialogue. Kanki does both in spades.I am no fool, there is no way NNT could be more gruesome than a manga like Kingdom. But we were not talking about the amount of violence, we were talking about savage characters
No they can't, for the most part. Mature themes can only really be explored through mature content, something shonen usually arent permitted to have due to their target demographic. Writing something keeping in mind that kids will read it is a pretty heavy constraint, and it doesnt help that WSJ dictates what can or cannot be done. You can throw in some subtleness like FMA and HxH do, but you can never go indepth on a topic you really want to explore. Seinan have a big one-up on shonen in that regard.
But again, it only matters if you go out of your way to search up the source material. The story of Kingdom isn't exactly common knowledge, the only place you would learn about the Unification of China and all its juicy details are probably in a history course in china. Other then that, there is the internet. But you are going out of your way to search that up, at which point its hardly the fault of the manga since you do so at your own discretion.
He really doesn't. The only arc where it does feel that way somewhat is Stardust Crusaders. A Monster of the week formula entails a beginning, middle and end in a single episode/chapter with a single villain. Sure characters face numerous strings of opponents in jojo but its all tied together by one setting, plot and a continues progression of events (to lead to the final destination) with events that leave a lasting impact for the rest of the series. The pace at which things go doesn't leave a lot of room for world building and normal banter (except for DiU which incorporates some slice of life elements) but for an action series that focuses on its characters, thats actually for the better. I think a series like NNT would benefit greatly from cutting out all the filler romance and world building (since it doesnt do a good job at either) and just give us fight after fight. Although even then I dont know how effective that would be since the characters themselves are lacking in nuance (and thus its hard to get behind them) and the fights arent innovative in the slightest.
But do mature themes have to be explored in depth to be good? I don't think so. How far do they have to delve anyway? In Magi for example the topic of slavey and racism was explored and I found it pretty good. There were plenty of mature themes as well. Subtle or not, as you get older you come to understand certain things better. If we compare FMA, where the topic of religion has been important and compare it to the Conviction arc in Berserk for example , what makes you say that Berserk did a better job?
By going against the grain I guess you mean that they are darker than most shonen? I don't find SnK that dark, deaths are more graphic but the plot is pretty good. It's even more obvious now that Isayama had everything planned in advance. However I find Death Note darker but the plot isn't that good. And maybe it's because I hated Light but I found him a bit too lucky at times. Let's take a shonen like Akame ga Kill(which I supposed you would consider as one going against the grain), would you say that it's as good as the three manga you mentioned? Reading your posts, I don't think you would. A manga with darker or more mature themes isn't necessarily better than the others. In the end it's how they are written which matters the most.
I agree that there are all kind of fights in JoJo and it supports what I said about the writing. If Araki had not left WSJ, SBR and JoJolion could have still been as enjoyable. He is simply a good mangaka. Yes I can say that I like NNT's battles more than Bleach's. There were plenty of good battles in Bleach too, but when it comes to paneling and battle sequences Kubo doesn't compare to Nakaba. JoJo's battles have more strategies and are more complex. Battles in NNt are more like in Dragon Ball but Nakaba excels at them. In Bleach, past the HM arc(Bleach should have ended after this arc) you see more and more abilities which would remind you or JoJo or HxH but they are not as good. From what I have read in Kongou Banchou I think Nakaba could write these kind of battles fairly well, better than Kubo at least.
I find it hard to believe that a Kingdom reader would not be curious about the real story if he is a fan of the manga, Atom even used that for his campaign but let's agree to disagree here.
I am curious, how do you think it'll end?
Maybe we don't see it the same way. My view of the Monster of the week formula is simple: They beat an opponent, then another appears, again and again. Araki has been doing it for year, but the way he does and how they are tied together is what makes the difference. It's more flagrant in SC, maybe because that's where it began but it's not like SC was that simple. There are plenty of memorable SoL moments even in this part. The world building was also decent with the recurrent trivia about customs and countries, more than in DiU, VA and SO at least. I agree a bit with the romance but it depends on the characters to me. However I don't see the problem with the world building. Nakaba is doing a good job so far, there are plenty of mysteries the characters and through the omakes you can see that he thought about it a lot.
So, you are telling me that until Escanor's appearance you didn't care about any of the characters? Anyway, I like that you admitted that you like him this much because of the hype factor and design. It's different from battles but it's still the same thing I saidI think Escanors fights are terribly boring tbh. What elevates him above the other characters in NNT is the hype factor that the author admittedly delivers on with him. Hes got a kickass design and dialogue that makes you go:
Thats pretty much exclusive to him though, none of the other characters deliver on that front. So, if someone were to ask me the characters I enjoy in NNT, I would literally only answer with Escanor. And thats not good at all. When Im literally skimming a chapter just to see if Escanor says something you know there is something wrong there. I also did like Gowther, but his turn is the point at which I pretty much gave up on the series.
.
Nononono, General Kanki isn’t known as a savage only because of how graphic and gruesome his and his army’s kills are. He isn’t the only person in Kingdom that has had innocent civilians killed graphically. What makes Kanki different is the way he does it and what his motives are for doing it. I won’t go into too much detail since you’re still in the process of reading Kingdom, but let’s just say that some of the shit he does in the KokuYou campaign arc and WHY he does it is...... well, there’s no way to describe it lol.@~Charging Lightning~ I am no fool, there is no way NNT could be more gruesome than a manga like Kingdom. But we were not talking about the amount of violence, we were talking about savage characters
That’s fair since I haven’t read NNT but I still think the same can be said for Kingdom.
I would actually agree with you that more mature themes do not always = it being better. However, I would always say it is more impressive for a series to have deeper themes and do that well. It is much harder to dive into a theme and show several angles of that, then to touch on it and leave it at that. Hense why I would say what Berserk did was more impressive, but not necessarily better depending on what you prefer. After all, some may find Berserk too in-depth with these themes, as in offensive, since it takes a very clear stance and does not pull punches with it. Whether that is good or bad is always up to the subjective reader of course.But do mature themes have to be explored in depth to be good? I don't think so. How far do they have to delve anyway? In Magi for example the topic of slavey and racism was explored and I found it pretty good. There were plenty of mature themes as well. Subtle or not, as you get older you come to understand certain things better. If we compare FMA, where the topic of religion has been important and compare it to the Conviction arc in Berserk for example , what makes you say that Berserk did a better job?
By going against the grain I guess you mean that they are darker than most shonen? I don't find SnK that dark, deaths are more graphic but the plot is pretty good. It's even more obvious now that Isayama had everything planned in advance. However I find Death Note darker but the plot isn't that good. And maybe it's because I hated Light but I found him a bit too lucky at times. Let's take a shonen like Akame ga Kill(which I supposed you would consider as one going against the grain), would you say that it's as good as the three manga you mentioned? Reading your posts, I don't think you would. A manga with darker or more mature themes isn't necessarily better than the others. In the end it's how they are written which matters the most.
I agree that there are all kind of fights in JoJo and it supports what I said about the writing. If Araki had not left WSJ, SBR and JoJolion could have still been as enjoyable. He is simply a good mangaka. Yes I can say that I like NNT's battles more than Bleach's. There were plenty of good battles in Bleach too, but when it comes to paneling and battle sequences Kubo doesn't compare to Nakaba. JoJo's battles have more strategies and are more complex. Battles in NNt are more like in Dragon Ball but Nakaba excels at them. In Bleach, past the HM arc(Bleach should have ended after this arc) you see more and more abilities which would remind you or JoJo or HxH but they are not as good. From what I have read in Kongou Banchou I think Nakaba could write these kind of battles fairly well, better than Kubo at least.
I find it hard to believe that a Kingdom reader would not be curious about the real story if he is a fan of the manga, Atom even used that for his campaign but let's agree to disagree here.
I am curious, how do you think it'll end?
Maybe we don't see it the same way. My view of the Monster of the week formula is simple: They beat an opponent, then another appears, again and again. Araki has been doing it for year, but the way he does and how they are tied together is what makes the difference. It's more flagrant in SC, maybe because that's where it began but it's not like SC was that simple. There are plenty of memorable SoL moments even in this part. The world building was also decent with the recurrent trivia about customs and countries, more than in DiU, VA and SO at least. I agree a bit with the romance but it depends on the characters to me. However I don't see the problem with the world building. Nakaba is doing a good job so far, there are plenty of mysteries the characters and through the omakes you can see that he thought about it a lot.
So, you are telling me that until Escanor's appearance you didn't care about any of the characters? Anyway, I like that you admitted that you like him this much because of the hype factor and design. It's different from battles but it's still the same thing I said
I don't think there is a clear stance in Berserk actually. Farnese is a perfect example.
I think there very much is.
You are right, it's a trivial reason. I will clear his WW actions from my mind since that event is over.You absolutely can ^^ Even I am supporting Kingdom despite my waifu losing to Atom's in the WW! Kingdom is really good, it would be a shame to vote against it for such a trivial reason
I agree. The battles look well drawn and it's a weekly, so I give it some respect there. Just the faces are a little off-putting. It's like they're wearing masks.
