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It’s not a claim, the form is clearly named in the game and is literally the only time DS grow scales lol
Round of 16 Laxus vs. Hakune
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Not really Gray was never shown using his Devil Slayer mode it wasn't even confirmed that he used it, Gray was on base before the fight and he was shown on base after that ended, that Gray used that power is just theory, because if we notice Gray only uses his power in this manga if he can't use his regular Ice, he didn't use that against Merc a dragon, Metro who was part of a dragon and he ended up giving Alta Face the final blow along with the rest of Team Natsu in base so Gray on base against Mira is not hard to think
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The problem with this fight is that it's a fight based on theories, because we don't know well how Gray avoided being frozen, it's known that his devil slayer power helped him but it was never clear that it was just because he changed magic Gray just mentioned that it was the power of a demon, we don't have much information on devil slayer magic to fully understand how it works.
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Gray having slow attacks is one of the most bizarre claims I've seen. In reality, the truth is the opposite. Mashima has made it a point to highlight the remarkable speed of his magic. Not once, but on multiple occasions.
Racer's magic distorts his foes' sense/perception of time. It generates a time dilation field that drastically slows down not only his opponents within the range of his magic, but also the speed of objects e.g. attacks used against him. That is why he could evade a combined assault from multiple opponents.
While still under the influence of Racer's slow motion world, Gray successfully dodge an attack from him.
And struck Racer with two of his attacks.
While Natsu failed to react to Racer's attacks on three separate occasions
Again, Silver was fast enough that Natsu failed to react to him twice.
While Gray's attacks could rip Silver apart.
The best testament to the speed of Gray's attacks was when he managed to push Natsu back several times in their fight while he was in a bad shape.
Mard could dodge Gray's attacks because he knew Gray had inherited Silver's magic and it was his Achilles' heel. He was very careful not be hit by Gray's attacks and tried his best to avoid them. The same thing could not be said of Natsu's attacks because nothing Natsu threw at Mard was capable of injuring him. Not even his Shiranuigata Guren Hōōken in DF. After he used his secret art, Natsu was completely powerless because he exhausted all of his MP. We had seen the likes of Makarov, Gildarts, Laxus and literally everyone else being reduced to powerless folks when their MP were drained or running on empty.
Regardless of how powerful a mage is, they are not any stronger than the average human if they do not have MP. This has been reinforced numerous times in the story. Until the Ethernano replenish Natsu's MP, he was helpless in Mard's clutches and there was nothing he could do in that state. Mard's attention and focus has shifted to Gray by that time due to Natsu's yelling out his name and he couldn't manage to dodge Gray's attack in time. It is a legitimate feat for the speed of his attack.
Gray has never been portrayed in the story as somebody who lacks noteworthy speed, regardless if it's his attacks or himself. His biggest flaw, with regards to fighting, was that ice make is a magic that can be countered in multiple ways. In his fight with Rufus, we see Mavis mentioning that he is a bad match-up for Gray due to the magic they use. Rufus could make Gray's ice creations vanish. This is the same as Ultear's arc of time who could make attacks go back in time or fast forward till they never existed, hence disappeared. Ultear herself claimed AoT was designed to nullify ice-make. Sugarboy's weapon allow him to liquify everything it touches. The liquid state of ice is basically water. Thus Gray's attacks were negated. While Silver was immune to ice attacks.
The whole shtick with Gray was Mashima like to put him up against adversaries who wields an ability that is effective against ice-make. Then Gray using his keen perception and analytical mind to correctly deduce where these adversaries' Achilles' heel are and turned the tide of the battle in his favour. In Silver's fight it was using the terrain to his advantage. In Rufus' fight it was figuring out Rufus could only memorize and forget one spell at a time hence overwhelming him by instantly creating a truckload of weapons. In Ultear's case it was AoT could not affect living beings so Gray incorporated blood to strike her down. It goes without saying that Gray will be dominated early on in such fights since he was the underdog due to his foes' obvious advantage.
Characters loses out in some exchanges all the time. That is par for the course in FT. What matters most is if they emerge victorious at the end of it. Natsu's attacks have been dodged many times by others too. This does not mean he is slow. In the grand scheme of things, it bears little significance to the fights and are very rarely the decisive factor. I don't really want to talk too much Gray because this thread is Laxus vs Hakune, but it seems that there isn't a choice because Hakune has only been in one lengthy fight and that was against Gray so we have to use him as a barometer.
Gray is fast, but Laxus is absolutely rapid. He would have make haste of Hakune because he is a force of nature with both devastating speed and offensive power. In addition, Laxus possess different kinds of lightning magic. He could switch them up freely as he deem fit. Red lightning is different enough that Wall was not able to analyse it. Hence Laxus should bypass Hakune's freezing. Another day, another W for the extraordinary lightning dragon king.
Gray has never been portrayed in the story as somebody who lacks noteworthy speed, regardless if it's his attacks or himself. His biggest flaw, with regards to fighting, was that ice make is a magic that can be countered in multiple ways. In his fight with Rufus, we see Mavis mentioning that he is a bad match-up for Gray due to the magic they use. Rufus could make Gray's ice creations vanish. This is the same as Ultear's arc of time who could make attacks go back in time or fast forward till they never existed, hence disappeared. Ultear herself claimed AoT was designed to nullify ice-make. Sugarboy's weapon allow him to liquify everything it touches. The liquid state of ice is basically water. Thus Gray's attacks were negated. While Silver was immune to ice attacks.
The whole shtick with Gray was Mashima like to put him up against adversaries who wields an ability that is effective against ice-make. Then Gray using his keen perception and analytical mind to correctly deduce where these adversaries' Achilles' heel are and turned the tide of the battle in his favour. In Silver's fight it was using the terrain to his advantage. In Rufus' fight it was figuring out Rufus could only memorize and forget one spell at a time hence overwhelming him by instantly creating a truckload of weapons. In Ultear's case it was AoT could not affect living beings so Gray incorporated blood to strike her down. It goes without saying that Gray will be dominated early on in such fights since he was the underdog due to his foes' obvious advantage.
Characters loses out in some exchanges all the time. That is par for the course in FT. What matters most is if they emerge victorious at the end of it. Natsu's attacks have been dodged many times by others too. This does not mean he is slow. In the grand scheme of things, it bears little significance to the fights and are very rarely the decisive factor. I don't really want to talk too much Gray because this thread is Laxus vs Hakune, but it seems that there isn't a choice because Hakune has only been in one lengthy fight and that was against Gray so we have to use him as a barometer.
Gray is fast, but Laxus is absolutely rapid. He would have make haste of Hakune because he is a force of nature with both devastating speed and offensive power. In addition, Laxus possess different kinds of lightning magic. He could switch them up freely as he deem fit. Red lightning is different enough that Wall was not able to analyse it. Hence Laxus should bypass Hakune's freezing. Another day, another W for the extraordinary lightning dragon king.
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That’s not really a countering argument. Grey consistently starts fights in base and ends them and goes back to base. He only made a habit of walking around in Demon mode on that case with Erza. To assume that Grey went up against Mira and didn’t try and use his demon slayer attribute at all, but went into it against the Thunder Legion is laughable. Especially after she just stalemated the guy Grey still hasn’t managed to beat even after being named his only hard counter.
We know it’s a slayer magic that gives him access to Demon magic through changing him to be more demon like. Which is exactly what DS magic is. Based on what was shown and said, Laxus going from lightning magic to DS lightning magic will suffice.
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It's more laughable to think that an off panel fight of an opponent that nobody knows as Mira wounded is of any use, it's seriously ridiculous, and of course Gray has only used his devil slayer power if his Ice make power doesn't work, Gray doesn't wanted to use his devil slayer power with the Thunder tribe that is clearly said in the manga, only because Freed prevented him from using ice he was forced to do it not because he considered he had to, and how it's not going to be logical to think that he didn't use it, when he didn't use his power against a Dragon that supposedly is at the level of Agnologia and an enemy that confirms to be part of another of those dragons, in fact it's more illogical that Gray didn't use that power against them and he however didn't use it.
The thing is that it was never said that that was, it was limited to is the power of a demon nothing more that, the rest is people's theory how that worked.
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Actually, it is more convenient because Natsu attempted to resist being frozen and failed, whereas Gray successfully countered Hakune's hax on his first try.
Hakune was only mediocre after her hax had been countered. Her feats up until then consisted of immediately freezing Natsu's MP, which is almost no different to Suzaku oneshotting Natsu with his sword.
And we don't know if Gray could hit Mard Geer with Zeroth Destruction Bow by himself. The plot never made it possible for Gray to have a 1v1 against Mard Geer.
By the way: Something not being shown is not evidence that the feat is impossible.
Gray has distracted many of his opponents in the past by creating ice clones, so you can't say with confidence that Gray will 100% miss his shot against Mard Geer when it was simply never the case to begin with.
And I don't see why Hakune can't do both. Freezing a person's MP only requires her to lift her hand and freezing attacks requires her to do nothing (such as standing still with her eyes closed).
Anyone can literally lift their hand and do nothing afterwards in a split second.
As for Laxus' lightning bolt, both Ajeel and Wahl saw it coming. So that leaves more than enough time for Hakune to freeze it before it reaches the ground.
If Ice-Make: Rampart could hit Racer inside his own radius, then that means the spell had to have been fast enough to account for Gray's slowed perception of time (which is when Racer is moving fast).
The speed of the spell isn't affected, but it is directly tied to its user (Gray), whose reaction time is slowed. So Rampart had to make up for that "lack in reaction speed" which means that the actual spell itself is incredibly fast.
If Ice-Make: Rampart was that slow, then Racer shouldn't have crashed into it considering that Gray casted it right in front of him when Racer decided to chase Natsu.
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At least my whole argument is not heavily relying on something that isn't proven.
Namely, that transforming into another mode/form is the key to countering Hakune's hax...
That theory was clearly fabricated without any evidence and I already explained in a previous post how it is verifiably false since Gray never switched between "Ice-Make" and "Devil Slaying Magic".
Gray always has Ice-Make magic and was simply reverting back to his base form (which is not a separate magic power).
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How so? We know that Grey, on panel and with spotlight got outshone by him twice. As it stands now, he’s realistically Grey’s opponent for the Diablos arc because never losing twice is a serious character trait for Grey. An Mira sent him running. That’s a perfect example to illustrate the continued difference in strength.
He was already about to use it. He didn’t want to fight anybody in FT, there was no special issue with facing TL. An you have him using a DS seal against Merc, so it would have been largely redundant. I would certainly prefer to use the correct type of slayer magic for the creature I’m facing if I have options. An the fact Juvia was taken prisoner may explain why he manipulated her instead of going DeS and hurling massive attacks at her.
Exactly my point. Without a statement that it only works as a block if you have a demon form, the only criteria is changing your magic like the change between a normal ice mage and a slayer. An as said numerous times throughout, Laxus is a regular lightning mage with access to DS magic, and can swap freely.
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laxus still one shots the fodder
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Honestly that guy isn't going to be Gray's big opponent in this sequel, Gray doesn't always get a rematch, that didn't happen at GMG with the guy Laxus beat, and currently the Dragon Eater trio are almost irrelevant unless they are get ready to use their dragon force, about Skullion running away he is the same guy who ran away when Gray was in front of him for his revenge, running away is nothing new for him, just seeing that there were too many members of Fairy Tail and they lost one of their own, Skullion preferred to leave for the disadvantage.
In the case of the Thunder tribe Gray mentioned to the Thunder tribe the mistake that was to force him to do that, which confirms that he wouldn't use that if he could use his ice.
It has not been confirmed that Gray cannot use his devil slayer magic with the seal, and when he released Juvia he could perfectly use devil slayer magic and he didn't.
The problem with that theory is that Gray doesn't change magic, he just adds another he is always an Ice make mage, the change of magic is a theory invented in this blog.
It's impossible for you to justify what you say with theories, when you have nothing to prove what you say
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The arguments are acting like swapping magic (theory) is a hard counter...when it only cuts the effectiveness in half. Doesn't help that she was still freezing Gray of all people (highest ice resistance in series) while half effective.
Not only this, but how would Laxus know a counter to Hakune's magic again??? He's never dealt with such hax or will know how to respond properly since his MP will freeze.
Not only this, but how would Laxus know a counter to Hakune's magic again??? He's never dealt with such hax or will know how to respond properly since his MP will freeze.
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I’m telling u it doesnt matter devil slaying magic is till magic It requires gray to use his mp so again irrelevant 2. Once gray went to Des she couldn’t freeze instantly. Im telling u laxus would the same once he goes into RL. Same with natsu in lfd/fdkm
3. She couldn’t freeze gray knights laxus just sends muitple nukes and it’s game over. Again using logic if she can freeze any mp/cp/sa then Gray should have been frozen even in DES but he wasn’t again there a limit
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They are bloodlust correct if laxus is getting frozen he using RL then proceeds to oneshot
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Even if RL does cut half the effect big if, he' still getting frozen and that's if he can activate it before his MP gets frozen.
Laxus win-con against Hakune is to flimsy here imo
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No, he failed right alongside Natsu.
It's totally different to Suzaku, because Suzaku got feats afterwards confirming his strength. If Suzaku didn't wreck Selene's anus, do you really think people wouldn't be saying the fight would've gone different if Natsu went all out with DF? Of course they would, in fact, that's still probably happening. Full power Natsu destroys Hakune, no diff, no competition. He could probably outright ignore Hakune's freezing, just no-sell it with his aura alone.
So you're saying Gray could've soloed Mard Geer lol?
Gray using Ice Clones to trick inferior opponents isn't a good enough feat to suggest he could do it to Mard Geer. By default he can't, he doesn't have the feats for it, he doesn't have the portrayal for it. Absolutely nothing in the manga even remotely suggests Gray had a chance against Mard Geer by himself, everything in the manga says the opposite.
Hakune simply doesn't have the feats for it. You saying she can do both simultaneously is giving her strength she hasn't shown. It's like me saying Laxus can just summon Thunder Palace on the spot and nuke a city, it's not something he's shown.
Laxus is faster than Hakune, so he lifts his hand first.
As for Ajeel seeing the nuke coming, Laxus literally launched it from hundreds of meters in the air, there was a massive amount of distance between the two. That said, Ajeel seeing it doesn't mean Hakune has the reaction speed to freeze it. Gray fired Ice Make Lance from like 10 meters away and it still almost hit her. That said, Hakune doesn't have the feats of freezing something of that scale and power, like Gray's Ice Knights, his nuke overwhelms her.
Sure, like I said, Gray's reaction speed is fine. Doesn't change the fact that hitting Racer while he's chasing someone else is mediocre.
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Naw, He left because there was no more purpose in being there, since Merc didn’t even have his power. He ran from Mira, those are two different scenarios. An yeah, other than that he’s been known to get his victory back.
I mean it was a good warning and boast in the moment. An totally different from not wanting to use the form against them at all, as originally implied. Especially since he didn’t say anything about the form, just that forcing him to use only the demon aspect of the form was foolish.
You mean when he used Juvia herself? So you think he should have used demon magic on her? Let’s not ignore that important aspect, he was manipulating the woman he loves.
I mean, however you argue it working semantically, both can go from a regular elemental mage to Slayers. There is nothing to suggest this isn’t enough to negate/halve her attack. An halving it was enough to make her abandon the technique all together.
I’m not justifying with theories. I’m accepting what was shown and plugging Laxus into the fight in Grey’s place. He can accomplish the same things when placed in that scenario. If you have an in depth reason why that shouldn’t work, let me know.
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If gray can he can do too. gray was about to get frozen again until he bust out DES for laxus can he do the same like I don’t understand what’s the problem there
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Except that's a feat for Gray someone with insane levels of cold resistance due to being an ice mage and having DeS magic on top of that.
Same can't be said for Laxus
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You totally forgot the arc perhaps, Skullion totally mentioned how Fairy Tail in general was a problem and with the loss of one of his allies and with Kirya very injured they couldn't win, it's ridiculous to believe that he only fled for Mira, it doesn't differentiate the case where he ran away from Gray he considered that he was at a disadvantage and ran away, that's the way he does things, it's not difficult to notice.
You forgot that Metro was defeated after he released Juvia, when Gray used her as a weapon it was only to free her, after they defeated him, you forgot that perhaps.
If the only way for Laxus to win is to do what Gray did, if we take seriously what happened in the manga for being the first fight Laxus would be totally frozen, because Laxus has no knowledge of how her magic works.
Your defense are just convenient theories without any proof in the manga.
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I agree something like changing your element slightly isn't comparable
Can Laxus going into buff form with scales and all be comparable though?
I'd think so.
Just like Gray going from his base to DeS mode with curse marks countered Hakune, Laxus going from his base to buff scales form should counter it as well. Of course nothing is confirmed, but these transformations are comparable.
Because both Gray's and Laxus' base isn't DeS magic or DS magic. Gray was gifted DeS magic, and Laxus gets it through lacrima
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Assuming it works, the problem is that he wouldn't know that in his first confrontation, he was just saved from Kirya's magic with some luck really.
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You're right.
I had assumed everyone has intel on everyone else, but then went and read the rules to find it's the opposite:
5. Knowledge
Participants will have no additional information about the other characters in the tournament aside from what they already know (canonically).
Participants will have no additional information about the other characters in the tournament aside from what they already know (canonically).
Gray didn't know in his first try either, or he would've obviously tried it. He probably thought about it a lot after his defeat to try and figure it out.
Laxus can win theoretically, IMO. But I doubt he can come to the realization before it's too late.
Might switch to Hakune again lol
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