Hangout Tournament General Discussion/Hangout Thread

[Axiomus]

No, what you propose is unfair.


How is it fair for Gray, Mira, and Gildartz in comparison to Natsu, Erza, and Laxus?


The latter three has had at least 10x the amount of panel time compared to the first 3.


We give those that don't have feats hype that way you can even out the playing field. In other words, we give them the benefit of the doubt because Mashima isn't giving them enough feats.


It's hardly fair to allow hype for both sides when one side clearly has way more feats.


You said it yourself.


Feats are more important then hype. That's giving Natsu, Erza, and Laxus way more advantage.


That's absurd, especially when they have enough feats to back them up.




If Natsu, Erza, and Laxus' feats aren't good enough to prove themselves worthy, then too bad.


Their skill just didn't match the level of their opponent. What's there to argue about that?


No, I'm not giving them any extra hype.


Hype is reserved for those that haven't had the chance to prove themselves.





People are degrading Gray, Mira, and Gildartz's feats to "Tartaros level" in an Alvarez-Setting Tournament.


If anybody is deserving greater hype, it's those that don't have feats up to date.

It simply means we should accept the fact that Natsu, Laxus, and Erza have greater feats than Gray, Mirajane, and Gildarts and give them the wins. Especially if their hype isn't inferior. Fair is not the same thing as equal. Also, what are you trying to imply? Natsu, Laxus, and Erza currently have the best feats on Ishgar's side. You seem to be under the impression that hype is something that should just be handed out like compensation to characters that don't have feats. If you want to use hype, you ought to have a legitimate argument that is backed up by the manga.

I am perfectly willing to use Gray's feats against Ajeel or during the Avatar arc to measure him.
There is no reason to believe Mirajane is stronger than Seilah, and has surpassed any Spriggans in power level.
And any assessment on how strong Gildarts is pure speculation.

 

[Nemispelled]

I completely disagree with this. One of the most utterly ridiculous things to have come out of this tournament was the fact that some members of the Spriggan 12, like Ajeel, Jacob, or Neinhart, were being called fodders. Brandish was stated to have a higher power-level than any mage Fairy Tail has ever met before, and Ajeel was stated to have a very similar power level in comparison to Brandish. There's no reason why Ajeel should be considered a fodder.

All Spriggans are created equal?


Nah, I disagree with that completely.


Since when was Ajeel on the level of August. Ajeel was nearly killed by Laxus' nuke while August blocked it with ease.


Ajeel, Jacob, and Neinhart don't even have close to the same power level as Brandish.


I don't know where you got that idea.


Brandish would take down Ajeel, Jacob (without transport), and Neinhart easily in a 1v3.


There is no reason a skilled opponent like Mard Geer would lose to Spriggans that have low skill and low durability.

 

[Axiomus]

All Spriggans are created equal?


Nah, I disagree with that completely.


Since when was Ajeel on the level of August. Ajeel was nearly killed by Laxus' nuke while August blocked it with ease.


Ajeel, Jacob, and Neinhart don't even have close to the same power level as Brandish.


I don't know where you got that idea.


Brandish would take down Ajeel, Jacob (without transport), and Neinhart easily in a 1v3.


There is no reason a skilled opponent like Mard Geer would lose to Spriggans that have low skill and low durability.

No, but in the case of Ajeel and Brandish they were stated to be on the same level.

Spoiler

I think this is also a good example of why I'm against this:

I was an advocate from the beginning about not using "manga scans/pages and feats" as your determining factor to the battle.

 

[Nemispelled]

It simply means we should accept the fact that Natsu, Laxus, and Erza have greater feats than Gray, Mirajane, and Gildarts and give them the wins. Especially if their hype isn't inferior. Fair is not the same thing as equal.

I am perfectly willing to use Gray's feats against Ajeel or during the Avatar arc to measure him.
There is no reason to believe Mirajane is stronger than Seilah, and has surpassed any Spriggans in power level.
And any assessment on how strong Gildarts is pure speculation.

Accept the fact that Natsu, Laxus, and Erza have greater feats than Gray, Mira, and Gildartz???



Dude, the latter three didn't even get a chance to prove themselves.


It's just like I do a crappy job fixing a car, but because the customer never saw you fix a car, he thinks I'm automatically way better than you.



Making a conclusion when you haven't seen the full story is unfair and unequal.



Gray vs. Ajeel was like 1% of his power compared to Erza vs. Ajeel, Natsu vs. Jacob, Laxus vs. Wahl.


That's BS....


And Mirajane not stronger than Sayla.... dude that's completely biased to no grounds...

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 21, 2016, Original Post Date: Jun 21, 2016 ---

No, but in the case of Ajeel and Brandish they were stated to be on the same level.

Spoiler

I think this is also a good example of why I'm against this:

Nice try, but that's base form. Neither Brandish nor Ajeel powered up. When they power up, it's going to be significantly different.


Brandish would turn Ajeel into the size of a cookie and stomp on him..

 

[Axiomus]

Accept the fact that Natsu, Laxus, and Erza have greater feats than Gray, Mira, and Gildartz???



Dude, the latter three didn't even get a chance to prove themselves.


It's just like I do a crappy job fixing a car, but because the customer never saw you fix a car, he thinks I'm automatically way better than you.



Making a conclusion when you haven't seen the full story is unfair and unequal.



Gray vs. Ajeel was like 1% of his power compared to Erza vs. Ajeel, Natsu vs. Jacob, Laxus vs. Wahl.


That's BS....


And Mirajane not stronger than Sayla.... dude that's completely biased to no grounds...

They did get a chance to show off their powers. Gray was in his demonized form against Ajeel, meaning he probably put more effort than when he was up against Ur.

A better analogy: You meet two MMA fighters. One has a consistent track record of beating the strongest guys in his division. The other barely has any fights under his belt. A gangster puts a gun to your daughter's head. Bet on which fighter wins to pay back the gangster. Who wouldn't pick the fighter that shows more impressive skills in his fighting career?

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 21, 2016, Original Post Date: Jun 21, 2016 ---

Nice try, but that's base form. Neither Brandish nor Ajeel powered up. When they power up, it's going to be significantly different.


Brandish would turn Ajeel into the size of a cookie and stomp on him..

Power-up forms? What? This is Brandish and Ajeel we're talking about.

You do realize that Brandish was literally defeated by Cana because she couldn't handle Ajeel's sands causing her to sneeze, right?

 

[Nemispelled]

They did get a chance to prove themselves.Gray was in his demonized form against Ajeel, meaning he probably put more effort than when he was up against Ur. No reason to assume that it's any easier for Gray to cast an Ice-Devil Slayer spell than it is for Natsu to do a casual roar at Bluenote (which already is enough to rival Gray's feats).

A better example. You meet two MMA fighters. One has a consistent track record of beating the strongest guys in his division. The other barely has any fights under his belt. A gangster puts a gun to your daughter's head. Bet on which fighter wins.

Nah dude, listen...


Ajeel >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bluenote


That's not even a comparison. Gray turning into demonized form does not mean he was going serious. You are the one speculating too much.

The spell that Gray casted was as casual as it could be... He wasn't breathing afterwards... he wasn't fatigued... and he was not close to running out of energy.


You assume way too much based on what you see. As biased as it can be.




Using a consistent track record doesn't mean shit.


If the manager of the stronger MMA fighter told you that over the past year, his fighter was lazy on his ass and ate butter.


While the manager of the inferior MMA fighter told you that over the past year, his fighter has been training non-stop and has been healthy.



Who are you going to pick to save your daughter???



This tournament is Alvarez-Arc setting... there is a timeskip.



Track record doesn't mean shit because it's been a whole year...



Gildartz, Mard Geer, and Hades both have a damn good track record...

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 21, 2016, Original Post Date: Jun 21, 2016 ---

Power-up forms? What? This is Brandish and Ajeel we're talking about.

You do realize that Brandish was literally defeated by Cana because she couldn't handle Ajeel's sands causing her to sneeze, right?

Brandish defeated by Cana???


Alright man, go ahead and have it your way.


I highly doubt anybody is going to agree with you on this one.


If you insist on using that as the basis of your argument, I'm going to make a Brandish vs. Cana battle in Domus Flau after the tournament is over.


Let's see if you still stand your ground.. because you will be a 1-man army there...

 

[Axiomus]

Nah dude, listen...


Ajeel >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bluenote


That's not even a comparison. Gray turning into demonized form does not mean he was going serious. You are the one speculating too much.

The spell that Gray casted was as casual as it could be... He wasn't breathing afterwards... he wasn't fatigued... and he was not close to running out of energy.


You assume way too much based on what you see. As biased as it can be.


Using a consistent track record doesn't mean shit.


If the manager of the stronger MMA fighter told you that over the past year, his fighter was lazy on his ass and ate butter for 3 weeks.


While the manager of the inferior MMA fighter told you that his fighter has been training non-stop and has been healthy for the past 3 weeks...



Who are you going to pick to save your daughter???



This tournament is Alvarez-Arc setting... there is a timeskip.



Track record doesn't mean shit because it's been a whole year...



Gildartz, Mard Geer, and Hades both have a damn good track record...

You're telling me that characters with better feats can't use hype and that we shouldn't use manga pages to make our arguments. And yet you call me biased?

Was Natsu tired after using demolition fist or after his roar against Bluenote? Was Laxus tired after casting his nuke against Ajeel? So why assume it is harder for them to use those spells than it was for Gray to cast Ice-make: Silver?

Your analogy doesn't even make any sense: We know for a fact that Natsu and Laxus trained hard over the 1 year timeskip, arguably devoting more time than anyone else. Besides, who are the managers in this analogy supposed to be? Nobody is going around saying characters were being lazy over the timeskip.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 21, 2016, Original Post Date: Jun 21, 2016 ---

Brandish defeated by Cana???


Alright man, go ahead and have it your way.


I highly doubt anybody is going to agree with you on this one.


If you insist on using that as the basis of your argument, I'm going to make a Brandish vs. Cana battle in Domus Flau after the tournament is over.


Let's see if you still stand your ground.. because you will be a 1-man army there...

Don't twist my words. I said Brandish was defeated by Cana because of Ajeel's sands causing her to sneeze. That was exactly what happened:

Spoiler

I never said Cana would beat Brandish in a fair fight. I am, however, implying that in a fight between Ajeel and Brandish, Ajeel would use sand world and axe Brandish whilst she's sneezing.

 

[Nemispelled]

You're telling me that characters with better feats can't use hype and that we use manga pages to make our arguments. And yet you call me biased?

Was Natsu tired after using demolition fist or after his roar against Bluenote? Was Laxus tired after casting his nuke against Ajeel? So why assume it is harder for them than it was for Gray to cast Ice-make: Silver?

Your analogy doesn't even make any sense: We know for a fact that Natsu and Laxus trained hard over the 1 year timeskip, arguably devoting more time than anyone else. And I'm talking about track record during the Tartarus arc. Track record matters.

Natsu and Laxus tried to destroy Bluenote and Ajeel respectively.


Gray never had any intention of oneshotting Ajeel. He was simply trying to stop/slow him down in order for the group to escape.


Actually pay attention to the context and not just the facts.




Characters that already have feats don't deserve the hype because we've seen the full extent of their skill level.


On the other hand, characters that don't have feats should be hyped in order to put them on equal footing with the other characters..



But alright, I'm not convincing you, so there is no point for me to continue going back and forth.




I respectfully hear, but disagree with your stance on this matter.




As for me, I will be voting Gildartz as the ultimate victor of this tournament...


But like I said, I couldn't care less who is the victor... so whoever ends up being the victor, I will not complain...

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 21, 2016, Original Post Date: Jun 21, 2016 ---

I never said Cana would beat Brandish in a fair fight. I am, however, implying that in a fight between Ajeel and Brandish, Ajeel would use sand world and axe Brandish whilst she's sneezing.

By the way, in a fight between Ajeel and Brandish 1v1:



Brandish would not be caught off guard like she was in the manga.


She would simply shrink "Sand World" into the size of Happy's paw, and squash Ajeel after she turns him into the size of a cookie.

 

[Axiomus]

Natsu and Laxus tried to destroy Bluenote and Ajeel respectively.


Gray never had any intention of oneshotting Ajeel. He was simply trying to stop/slow him down in order for the group to escape.


Actually pay attention to the context and not just the facts.




Characters that already have feats don't deserve the hype because we've seen the full extent of their skill level.


On the other hand, characters that don't have feats should be hyped in order to put them on equal footing with the other characters..



But alright, I'm not convincing you, so there is no point for me to continue going back and forth.




I respectfully hear, but disagree with your stance on this matter.




As for me, I will be voting Gildartz as the ultimate victor of this tournament...


But like I said, I couldn't care less who is the victor... so whoever ends up being the victor, I will not complain...

Yes, but the attacks they used were still casual. There wasn't much effort being put in? I don't buy that Gray was holding back Ajeel either. If Ice-Make: Silver could have froze Ajeel solid and stopped him right there, Gray would have done it.

That's the exact opposite of a fair analysis. Characters with better feats and better hype should be placed above characters with lesser feats and lesser hype. Characters with equal hype should have their differences be settled with displays of feats.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 21, 2016, Original Post Date: Jun 21, 2016 ---

By the way, in a fight between Ajeel and Brandish 1v1:


Brandish would not be caught off guard like she was in the manga.


She would simply shrink "Sand World" into the size of Happy's paw, and squash Ajeel after she turns him into the size of a cookie.

What's Brandish going to shrink? The sand?

 

[Nemispelled]

What's Brandish going to shrink? The sand?

Brandish can teleport away and shrink the area that Sand World is affecting.

 

[Axiomus]

Brandish can teleport away and shrink the area that Sand World is affecting.

I don't suppose Brandish has actually demonstrated her fighting ability in this fashion?

To be honest, sand world is overkill. Ajeel can just use a smaller scale sandstorm. All he needs to do is blindside Brandish, and Brandish has never displayed the best of reaction times. By the same token Ajeel can just merge with the sand and Brandish would have no idea where to even look. Ajeel still has other spells like antlions pit, his golems, and sand swords. Besides, this boils down to exchanges based on their abilities. I've more than sufficiently proven that Ajeel's magical power, is comparable to Brandish's. He is not a fodder by any definition of the word. Anything Brandish can do to Ajeel, she can do with even greater ease against Mard Geer. Again, this is where Gray says that Ajeel was on Brandish's level.

Spoiler

...And no, Brandish and Ajeel don't have "power-up" modes. Besides, Brandish's best shrinking and enlarging feats were performed on Caracol Island. There is no excuses that can be made here.

 

[Arjuna]

Natsu and Laxus tried to destroy Bluenote and Ajeel respectively.


Gray never had any intention of oneshotting Ajeel. He was simply trying to stop/slow him down in order for the group to escape.


Actually pay attention to the context and not just the facts.




Characters that already have feats don't deserve the hype because we've seen the full extent of their skill level.


On the other hand, characters that don't have feats should be hyped in order to put them on equal footing with the other characters..



But alright, I'm not convincing you, so there is no point for me to continue going back and forth.




I respectfully hear, but disagree with your stance on this matter.




As for me, I will be voting Gildartz as the ultimate victor of this tournament...


But like I said, I couldn't care less who is the victor... so whoever ends up being the victor, I will not complain...

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 21, 2016, Original Post Date: Jun 21, 2016 ---

By the way, in a fight between Ajeel and Brandish 1v1:



Brandish would not be caught off guard like she was in the manga.


She would simply shrink "Sand World" into the size of Happy's paw, and squash Ajeel after she turns him into the size of a cookie.

How can Gildarts be the strongest here in the current arc.
First of all:-
i)GMG Jura's power level is on the level of Gildarts.
ii)Bluenote gave Gildarts a good fight.In one chapter cover Hiro wrote that he is a fighter who fought on par with Gildarts.If Gildarts is Spriggan level then how can Bluenote fight on par with him.And we can assume Bluenote's strength in light of the Spriggans.
iii)You may say he improved during the time skip.But there is a possiblity that he has reached his prime.The most important examples are Bluenote who didn't improve during the time skip and also Makarov.

 

[Nemispelled]

How can Gildarts be the strongest here in the current arc.
First of all:-
i)GMG Jura's power level is on the level of Gildarts.
ii)Bluenote gave Gildarts a good fight.In one chapter cover Hiro wrote that he is a fighter who fought on par with Gildarts.If Gildarts is Spriggan level then how can Bluenote fight on par with him.And we can assume Bluenote's strength in light of the Spriggans.
iii)You may say he improved during the time skip.But there is a possiblity that he has reached his prime.The most important examples are Bluenote who didn't improve during the time skip and also Makarov.

i) That was never proven. Makarov said Jura = Gildartz, but guess what?


Makarov also said Jura = Laxus and it actually ended up to be Laxus >> Jura





ii) Tenrou Tree was cut down, that's why it looked like a tough fight.


Gildartz ended up defeating Bluenote with 1 punch.





iii) Bluenote is fodder compared to Gildartz. Only a noob like Bluenote would reach his prime so early.


Unless stated otherwise, Gildartz has not reached his prime and should be a powerful beast by now.

 

[Jean Grey]

I don't remember Makarov saying that Laxus was equal to Jura. even if he did Makarov was clearly shocked that Laxus was going toe to toe with Jura. he was even more shocked when Laxus won that fight.

I do agree on one point, having the same amount of MP doesn't mean you have the same striking power or durability.

 

[Arjuna]

i) That was never proven. Makarov said Jura = Gildartz, but guess what?


Makarov also said Jura = Laxus and it actually ended up to be Laxus >> Jura





ii) Tenrou Tree was cut down, that's why it looked like a tough fight.


Gildartz ended up defeating Bluenote with 1 punch.





iii) Bluenote is fodder compared to Gildartz. Only a noob like Bluenote would reach his prime so early.


Unless stated otherwise, Gildartz has not reached his prime and should be a powerful beast by now.

1)Makrov did say Laxus will not defeat Jura but guess Laxus defeated him narrowily.It was not that he defeated him easily.So the margin of error will be slight here also.May be slight stronger than Jura.
ii)It is a wrong notion that Bluenote did not fight Gildarts on a good terms.If you take Tenrou tree in mind then it was a one sided match for Bluenote.That is why Hiro himself wrote The man who fought Gildarts on par.Note this word.He was not talking about Tenrou part he was talking about when he fought on equal grounds.

 

[Brandish μ]

SemiFinals stage has come! Jellal Fernandes vs Laxus Dreyar and Gildarts Clive vs Natsu Dragneel are now live!

SemiFinals 1​

Jellal Fernandes​

vs

Laxus Dreyar​

SemiFinals 2​

Gildarts Clive​

vs

Natsu Dragneel​

 

[Static]

Please next time don't include Gildarts in the tournament. Most of the fans are just going to vote for him based on hype.

 

[Nemispelled]

Please next time don't include Gildarts in the tournament. Most of the fans are just going to vote for him based on hype.

The only reason anybody would not want to include Gildartz in this tournament is because Gildartz is going against their favorite character...

In other words, they are scared that Gildartz will win...


Despite the amount of people that publicly voice their opinions for their favorite characters, I'm trusting that the "quiet voters" will use common sense from an "outside perspective" and see that Gildartz is Fairy Tail's strongest and have feats beyond comparable to any of the participants in this tournament.


I don't know what you mean when you say "Most of the fans are just going to vote for him based on hype."


As proven, Gildartz has had feats coming from Edolas Arc, Tenrou Arc, GMG Arc, and End of Tartaros Arc.


It's just whether the voters accept them or not. (And there should honestly be no reason why they don't)




Everybody in this tournament is hyped, so Gildartz shouldn't be the only one singled out for this.




I'll give you a list of Gildartz's feats, organized by Arcs so you can see specifically:



Edolas Arc-


- Magnolia had to rearrange its structures just to create a path, specially made for Gildartz so that he can get to the guild hall because he is so destructive.


- Gildartz was stated by the guild as their strongest mage


- Gildartz told of the story how he survived an encounter with Acnologia, a feat that no human has ever shown to accomplish/achieve except for Gildartz




Tenrou Arc-


- Gildartz beat Natsu without laying a finger on him


- Gildartz made Bluenote "fly" with 1 punch




GMG Arc-


- Makarov elected Gildartz as "Fairy Tail's Master", which not only shows that he has the strength to lead a guild, but also the "Brains/Intelligence" to lead a guild.



- Gildartz accidentally tripped and was able to split and shatter the Earth floor


- 1 CASUAL punch from BASE Gildartz created a deep impact on the side of a mountain, which can be seen by the villagers from a great distance




End of Tartaros Arc-


- Made Natsu "fly" with 1 punch and caused Natsu to have a bloody face


- Saved Natsu by oneshotting a giant monster and shattered/destroyed layers of mountains in the process

 

[Arjuna]

So will there be any 3rd division match between the the mages who lost their matches in semi final.

 

[Holt]

So will there be any 3rd division match between the the mages who lost their matches in semi final.

No, there won't be one. The finals is the only match left after this