Discussion Shichibukai Vs Yonkou

[Onomatopoeia]

Re: Shicibukai Vs Yonkou

Didn't the Databooks state that Shanks lost no power with loss of his left arm?

Anyways I'm wondering how many Sichi's will actually show up.

 

[True Blade]

Re: Shicibukai Vs Yonkou

Fact is, at least one of the Yonkou is probably an evil tool. By the same token, at least 1 (or more) of the Shichibukai are good at heart. Having them all duke it out by those sides is highly unlikely. But for the sake of argument...

Blackbeard is now a Shichibukai, we can assume Ace is relatively close to Blackbeard in power. Even though he lost.
Ace is only the 3rd strongest member of Whitebeard's crew, next to Marco and Whitebeard himself. With that in mind, I think we can assume that between all the Yonkou, there are enough crewmembers with enough power to match up against each Shichibukai.

Likewise, the variance in power between Shichibukai is noted, and there are probably a couple on par with a Yonkou captain.

Of course... this argument will likely be blown wide open come the Whitebeard/Shichibukai war, so any speculation made now is ill-informed.

 

[Razh]

Re: Shicibukai Vs Yonkou

Hmmm...

It just came to me that we could still see Crocodile in battle.

Think about it. If they don't end up with enough Shichibukai on their side, they will just have to improvise. In that situation, Crocodile and maybe some other inmates could become pardoned for their crimes in exchange for serving WG again.

 

[Yans86]

Re: Shicibukai Vs Yonkou

DoFlamingo :definetily is going to the war for his ambitions....

Blackbird ame as Doflamingo.....

Jinbei : According to Shabondy Island,I don't think that he loves to cooperate with WG,so put his life on the line for the sake of WG,Tenryu and co???.....

Boa Hancock :let'see what is going to happen but she is not really interested

Mihawk : I don't believe is going to fight,probably he was in WB's crew when he fought against Shanks...

Kuma :He is not always on the WG side so is difficult to judge...

Moria :He was beaten up,he doesn't have troops anymore......no ambitions,no reason to fight,he lost already.

About Crocodile....for me is still stronger than Moria....

 

[True Blade]

Re: Shicibukai Vs Yonkou

Hmmm...

It just came to me that we could still see Crocodile in battle.

Think about it. If they don't end up with enough Shichibukai on their side, they will just have to improvise. In that situation, Crocodile and maybe some other inmates could become pardoned for their crimes in exchange for serving WG again.

Very true. Boa Hancock does not seem likely to take part in that battle, and given that she's going to run into Luffy soon, that really reduces her chances of showing up to that fight, especially if he gets her with his shonen hotblood inspiration! I definitely wouldn't mind seeing Crocodile in the story again, he was one of the best characters in One Piece so far. Definitely the best villain in my mind.

 

[bittman]

Re: Shicibukai Vs Yonkou

CROCODILE WOT!?!?! Might as well demote Smoker to Petty Officer then. Point is, Crocodile is not making a comeback as a Shichibukai. The WG are corrupt, but they do have a face reputation to uphold which would be instantly shot if they re-instated Crocodile. Shocked that was even brought up actually...

And yeah, all the Shichibukai will turn up. None of them want to lose the title since they all use it for one reason or another. If any of them broke the treaty, the WG would hunt them down vigorously with an almost set guarantee of a buster call. Even Mihawk, the "nice Shichibukai" (well...sort of) will appear. Even if one of the Shichibukai wanted to overthrow the WG, this wouldn't be the time whilst the other Shichibukai and admirals are lurking nearby.

Moria will appear too. He was beaten up probably a good month ago (considering the little side-adventures hinted of between TB and Red Line. If he hasn't recovered, he's in a coma and that's tragic. But it's One Piece, so something that tragic never happens unless it's a flashback. WG also had no plans to throw him out, and Luffy's win was not public and would probably be rumour at best spread by Lola and crew.

 

[Razh]

Re: Shicibukai Vs Yonkou

CROCODILE WOT!?!?! Might as well demote Smoker to Petty Officer then. Point is, Crocodile is not making a comeback as a Shichibukai. The WG are corrupt, but they do have a face reputation to uphold which would be instantly shot if they re-instated Crocodile. Shocked that was even brought up actually...

Yeah, I'm aware of that. But it wouldn't be something strange.
WG's main goal is to preserve world balance. And frankly, reputation doesn't mean shit when you're about to get pummeled by "The strongest pirate in the world". Considering Revolutionaries that are probably just waiting to jump in, and all other pirates who won't want to be left out of the war, a former Shichibukai who is also a logia devil fruit user, could real easily come out of jail.
But another question is whether he will wan't to get out. He had the chance of running away before, but he "didn't feel like it". WTF? Maybe he lost all his ambition. But he had a smile on his face.
One thing more is possible. He's very intelligent and he knows he wouldn't gain much by running away. WG wants him, pirates hate him...
Maybe he was just waiting, knowing that it's possible that WG will want him back.
I mean, such a character has too much potential, and if Jango and Fullbody could make a comeback, than why not him?

Saying somebody is over and won't come back in One Piece just bacuse you think so bittman is not much of a guarantee, and your post would be really fine if there weren't for that condescending tone (maybe I'm imagining). There's no basis for it. It's not like i said Crocodile will become an Admiral...

 

[Mr.Popo]

Re: Shicibukai Vs Yonkou

Think about it. If they don't end up with enough Shichibukai on their side, they will just have to improvise. In that situation, Crocodile and maybe some other inmates could become pardoned for their crimes in exchange for serving WG again.

A good point. WG has probably one or two Shichibukai under (Moria and Boa).
I personally don't think they will reactivate Crocodile or that he has any ambitions to follow the WG as a Shichibukai once again.

But that gave me a crazy idea.

We know that Luffy is stranded on Amazon Lily in the need of a ship to escape.
We know that VA Momonga is there with a ship and refusing to leave empty handed.
We know that Boa Hancock has no ambitions to fight for the WG and believes that her beauty will help her keeping the status of a Shichibukai.

What if the Marines/WG offer Luffy a way out of Amazon Lily and a safe conduct if he in return fights against WB alongside the Shichibukai.
He already defeated two Shichibukai, so he should be considered strong enough by the Marines/WG.
And there should be no moral objections for Luffy to fight against another pirate.

Luffy's goal is to freely experience adventures together with his friends. He has no objections or wishes to fight for or against marines/pirates, but if it helps him to reach his goal...

 

[Razh]

Re: Shicibukai Vs Yonkou

I don't think that's likely to happen. Luffy probably wouldn't even dream of fighting beside WG. The same WG that has done so harm to Robin, if nothing else.
And in the light of Luffy's latest achievements, like blasting away a Tenyruubito with his fist, not to mention Enies Lobby incident, Crocodile has more chance of becoming a Shichibukai than Luffy.

 

[BlackHair]

Re: Shicibukai Vs Yonkou

According to Garps explanation, Shichi should be equal with the Yonko. Which should include the crews and not only their leader. I know, since BB replaced Croco their power must have changed and its probably not like the WG does any kind of power scaling, so basically Im saying their power should be "about" equal and not "complete".

Now the War: theoretically WB pirates (Cap+crew) fighting power should be 25% of the Shichi. So basically the Shichi would overrun WB, if no-one would help them. But we know not every member of the Shichi will take part in the war and the marine will most likely join the battle to certain their victory. Basically Im expecting Dragon and Shanks as well, though I believe WB downfall is certain in the upcoming battle.

I read somewhere (I believe red date book - german), Shanks was once fighting Mihawk for the title strongest swordsman with his dominant left arm. After losing that arm, he wasn't able to fight him equal. So he trained his right arm to his dominant arm, to match his fighting style. Im not sure about that - I will look into it.

Anyway sth which should be clear: According to WB, Shanks was duelling (1vs1 fight - sword in this case) Mihawk. But right now Mihawk is holding the title which why Im thinking Mihawk is stronger than Shanks if they should fight a 1vs1.

 

[paradoxe]

Re: Shicibukai Vs Yonkou

I read somewhere (I believe red date book - german), Shanks was once fighting Mihawk for the title strongest swordsman with his dominant left arm. After losing that arm, he wasn't able to fight him equal. So he trained his right arm to his dominant arm, to match his fighting style. Im not sure about that - I will look into it.

Mihawk stopped seeking out Shanks for fights because he did not want to fight a person with only one arm

Tht doesn't prove anything. It doesn't mean Shanks is weaker then Mihawk, it just means what it means: that Mihawk hasn't fought Shanks in the past 10 years.

 

[BlackHair]

Re: Shicibukai Vs Yonkou

All we have is Mihawk saying he quit thinking about fighting Shanks, since a long time ago.. In fact I believe Miawk fought Shanks after he lost his arm and won. That's why he decided to give up on Shanks, since he is stronger and there is no point in fighting someone weaker.

Anyway, u seem to miss my point. I was trying to say that Shanks is a swordsman as well. But Mihawk carries the title strongest swordsman, so he is stronger than Shanks.

 

[paradoxe]

Re: Shicibukai Vs Yonkou

Lol Shanks a swordsman?

Haha you make me laugh =)

I guess Rayleigh must be a swordsman too rite?

And no, you have misinterpreted that translation I'm afraid.

That's why he decided to give up on Shanks, since he is stronger and there is no point in fighting someone weaker.

Haha, you think Shanks would challenge Mihawk to a fight if he believed he would lose?

Nah. Shanks is powerful, losing one arm doesn't mean anything

Unless you can show me anything substantiating your claim, that I'm afraid theres no point arguing about it because at this point its only speculation.

 

[BlackHair]

Re: Shicibukai Vs Yonkou

About Shanks being a swordsman, I base this on WB comment: [..even the duel between u and Hawkey..] and on this: Shanks asking Mihawk if he is there to fight. In the red datebook it is said Shanks and Mihawk are old rivals (<- I marked it with a red circle. I can't read jap, but I bought the red-datebook which was officially released here in Germany. So i have the official German translation here). All that indicates imo of him being a swordsman. In the end it is speculation, but at this point the only one which makes sense to me. Correct me if wrong.

Haha, you think Shanks would challenge Mihawk to a fight if he believed he would lose?

1. Shanks didn't challenge Mihawk, if u r referring only to this page.
2. Remember Zoro, he thought he could beat Mihawk and challenged him
3. Mihawk was stated as the strongest by a infobox, which is only visible for us reader and not for the living characters in the story. Basically all they know is the rumour, legend or w.e u want to call it like, that Mihawk is the strongest. Im saying, Shanks could still think he is equal to him, which don't have to be true.

Nah. Shanks is powerful, losing one arm doesn't mean anything

Unfortunately I still can't find where I read that part with the dominant arm. I beginning to believe, it was just a post of some1. Anyway I found sth interesting: Here we can see Shanks using his left arm to draw out his sword. Later we see him using his right arm, since his left arm is lost. Rayleigh also said, Shanks lost two of his trademarks, his straw-hat and his left arm.

So fukking yes, losing his probably dominant left arm did meant sth to his fighting style -> power. That was in the past now he managed to get a big name with only one arm, but since it is said he was rival with Mihawk and seeing him now sitting at the top not Shanks, makes me belive Mihawk is tronger than Shanks. Even if its only 1%..

anyway, Shanks is overrated, I know it is in the past but he lost a arm to a sea monster which Luffy send flying 10 years later without problem. Even though Shanks was apparently strong and well known in the world.

 

[paradoxe]

Re: Shicibukai Vs Yonkou

2. Remember Zoro, he thought he could beat Mihawk and challenged him
3. Mihawk was stated as the strongest by a infobox, which is only visible for us reader and not for the living characters in the story. Basically all they know is the rumour, legend or w.e u want to call it like, that Mihawk is the strongest. Im saying, Shanks could still think he is equal to him, which don't have to be true.

Zoro..was a nobody.

Seriously, you're comparing SHANKS to ZORO before he entered the Grand Line?

ARE YOU SERIOUS?

Remember how MIhawk stated that decent fighters could tell an opponents strength? You don't think Shanks, one of the four most powerful pirates in the WORLD, could tell?

anyway, Shanks is overrated, I know it is in the past but he lost a arm to a sea monster which Luffy send flying 10 years later without problem. Even though Shanks was apparently strong and well known in the world.

Wtf, hes a Yonkou.

The point of the monster eating his arm wasn't to show that Shanks is weak. Its to show that Shanks didn't care about himself as long as he was able to protect his nakama.

You don't really get the point of the manga do u?
lool

 

[BlackHair]

Re: Shicibukai Vs Yonkou

Zoro..was a nobody.

Seriously, you're comparing SHANKS to ZORO before he entered the Grand Line?

ARE YOU SERIOUS?l

Dude, just take some time reading my posts. I know its in bad English, but I was trying to point sth different. It is a natural behaviour among fighters to think they are stronger as each other. Shanks could still think he is stronger than Mihawk, which don't have to be true.

Remember how MIhawk stated that decent fighters could tell an opponents strength? You don't think Shanks, one of the four most powerful pirates in the WORLD, could tell?

Lol.. don't read much into it. To answer ur question, Shanks probably can, but it doesn't have to mean he can tell the exact difference, between 2 ppl who are shareing "about" the same amount of fighting power. I said earlier, Mihawk is stronger than Shanks, even if its just about 1%. Do u think Shanks could tell the difference in those 1%?

Wtf, hes a Yonkou.

The point of the monster eating his arm wasn't to show that Shanks is weak. Its to show that Shanks didn't care about himself as long as he was able to protect his nakama.

You don't really get the point of the manga do u?
lool

I don't know if he was a yonkou back then or not, but he was certainly strong enough to solve the situation in a better way.

I know the purpose of the whole losing arm thing was to show the deep relationship between them as well as the nature of Shanks. So yes, I get the point in shounen manga. But it doesn't change the fact that he lost a arm to a sea monster.. don't try to avoid the facts, by pimping up the situation with words.

Anyway, wasn't we talking if he is or not a swordsman? Even if its in a wrong thread..

edit:

Wtf, hes a Yonkou.

haha lol so what? Enel was a God, Gecko and Croco a Shichi. What do u intend to proof with that title? ... The Yonkou are feared as a whole. U think Shanks would be such a big pirate without the other 3? The WG (marine) would have crushed him like nuts.

Shanks is strong, Im not denying that, but the reason which makes him so overwhelming powerful as well as the other 3 Yonkou is their crew. Rayleigh is also on Yonkou/Admiral fighting lvl. Do u think he would be able to replace a Yonkou if he would sail around solo in the new world.. I don't think so.

I guess Rayleigh must be a swordsman too rite?

Even though u didn't mean it serious. There is a possibility that he is actually a swordsman.

There are many fighter around who are able to use sword, but it is not their preferred fighting style. For example Nightmare Luffy, he was able to use a sword but his primary fighting style is bare hand based.

Though we don't know much about Rays fighting style, we know at least he can use a sword. After reading this comment of him: [its been a long time since I used a sword] I believe its safe to assume that he uses a sword if he is serious or if he is forced to. So basically, swordsmanship is his main fighting style, which would make him into a swordsman. I know it don't rly have to be.. but there is a possiblity.

U should have used Nightmare Luffy for ur joke.. xD

 

[bittman]

Re: Shicibukai Vs Yonkou

Paradoxe, don't argue against blackhair because you're losing (badly).

I agree with everything blackhair says.

On the Mihawk vs Shanks thing though: I would say Shanks is stronger, and not because Mihawk is a Shichibukai or that Shanks is a Yonkou. Shanks has more plot power, it's that simple. Since both are still alive, the outcome of the battle might not be black and white. I mean, would you say Luffy is stronger than Moria even though most of the damage he was able to do was in Nightmare form?

Mihawk's line of "I have long since given up fighting you one-armed man" could be seen three ways:
1) Mihawk lost and does not want to try again
2) Mihawk once lost when Shanks had both arms, but now think's it's pointless fighting him with one.
3) Mihawk won and does not want to try again
Though their fight seems to be quite famous (Whitebeard even knowing of it), a winner has never been stated.

 

[paradoxe]

Re: Shicibukai Vs Yonkou

Or it could just mean they fought many times, Mihawk losing some and Shanks losing some, but now Mihawk doesn't want to fight a man with just one arm.

Paradoxe, don't argue against blackhair because you're losing (badly).

I agree with everything blackhair says.

On the Mihawk vs Shanks thing though: I would say Shanks is stronger, and not because Mihawk is a Shichibukai or that Shanks is a Yonkou. Shanks has more plot power, it's that simple. Since both are still alive, the outcome of the battle might not be black and white. I mean, would you say Luffy is stronger than Moria even though most of the damage he was able to do was in Nightmare form?

How am I losing?
Cos You say so?

You agree with everything he says except for his main point... Yes thats so me losing.

Hes saying:
-Mihawk is stronger then Shanks because he is the strongest swordsman in the world, even though there is little evidence suggesting that Shanks is a swordsman too.
-Shanks is weak because he lost an arm to a sea monster (lol)
-He wants to ignore the fact that Shanks is a Yonkou (the very definition of a Yonkou is that they are the 4 most powerful pirates in the OP world), the fact that he knocked out the majority of WB's crew with his presence alone, the fact that he was able to fight equally with Mihawk before he became a Yonkou, the fact that he got through a naval blockade and did not fear WG repercussions, the fact that he was able to spar equally with WhiteBeard the strongest man in the world, the fact that he is the protagonist's idol..all these points imply that he is not only one of the most powerful pirates shown so far, but one of the most powerful men in the entire world.

Mihawk was stated as the strongest by a infobox

Yeah so what? Strongest swordsman.
Shanks might be a swordsman, or might not be. Its just speculation at this point. But there is more evidence pointing towards Shanks as stronger then Mihawk.

 

[kkck]

Re: Shicibukai Vs Yonkou

Doesnt the fact that shank uses a sword in combat make him a swordman?
I think that the main diference between shanks and mihawk in that sense is that shanks doesnt take as much pride in being a swordman as mihawk or zoro do. I think shanks attitude towards his swordmanship is like luffy's attitude towards his punches. They dont have any particular code of honor or live for the sake of their swords/fist, it is just their thing.

 

[BlackHair]

Re: Shicibukai Vs Yonkou

Doesnt the fact that shank uses a sword in combat make him a swordman?

No not Really. A swordsman is a fighter who uses in every battle a sword, a all time sword fighter. Like Zoro, in every battle he is using a sword. For example, Nightmare Luffy.. he was able to fight with a sword, but his primary fighting style his bare-hand based, so he isn't a swordsman.

mean, would you say Luffy is stronger than Moria even though most of the damage he was able to do was in Nightmare form?

You are not fair. If u don't count Nightmare Luffy then u shouldn't count Oz as well

Mihawk's line of "I have long since given up fighting you one-armed man" could be seen three ways

If u read that without taking other evidences/hints into consideration, then there is many way to interpret that. I will post/edit the hints later. Still collecting stuffs.. xD

Or it could just mean they fought many times, Mihawk losing some and Shanks losing some, but now Mihawk doesn't want to fight a man with just one arm.

So u agree with me? Mihawk and Shanks were equal rivals and fighting for the top. After losing his dominant arm Mwk was stronger and he is still standing at the top.

Shanks is weak because he lost an arm to a sea monster (lol)

Lol, I never used the word "weak". I was comparing him with Mihawk and put him a bit under him. You can't be called "weak" if u would lose a quite evenly battle with some1 who is called the strongest swordsman.

[I used the word overrated, 'cause the existence of this char is just to support Luffy.. that's why, but that's my opinion, shouldn't matter in the Mihawk vs Shanks discussion. Same with Ace, he is imo also overrated. His whole existence was just to trigger a big war and to lose in his first real battle xD I know the story isn't ended yet, but Im not expecting Ace playing any big role later. ]->my opinion.

-He wants to ignore the fact that Shanks is a Yonkou (the very definition of a Yonkou is that they are the 4 most powerful pirates in the OP world)

ähm...so what? Mihawk is a Shichi and is carrying the title strongest swordsman. The Shichi are equal to the Yonkou and his other title let him stand at the top. What do u intent to proof with the title "Yonkou"? I don't get it..

We are comparing 2 big shots, those titles (Shichi and Yonkou) means nothing in their world. Would be different if we would compare Shanks with Buggy, SN..

the fact that he knocked out the majority of WB's crew with his presence alone

He knocked out cannon fodder and not WB, do u think Mihawk couldn't do that? And yes, Im ignoring that, 'cause this is totally irrelevant.

the fact that he was able to fight equally with Mihawk before he became a Yonkou

I never denied that.. did u read my posts? Actually I was always saying that he used to be a equal rival with Mihawk, but couldn't fight him any more evenly, 'cause he lost his arm.

the fact that he got through a naval blockade and did not fear WG repercussions

I never ignored that and I fail to see how that would put him above Mihawk..

the fact that he was able to spar equally with WhiteBeard the strongest man in the world.

All we saw was a clash.. and WB is not a swordsman. U think Mihawk couldn't do that? I believe if WB and Shanks should fight a sword-only fight, Shanks would win. He used to be a rival of Mihawk.. that's why.. but that's a another story.

the fact that he is the protagonist's idol..

How would that explain Shanks strength? and put him above Mihawk?

he is not only one of the most powerful pirates shown so far, but one of the most powerful men in the entire world.

I never denied that. He is a powerful pirate, cause he is leading a organisation which is equal to WBs crew and respected/feared by the WG, whereby he got the status of a Yonkou. He is also like u said one of the top dogs of the world, cause he is able to lead such a strong crew and he is/was able to fight evenly Mihawk. Im not looking down on Shanks!

But there is more evidence pointing towards Shanks as stronger then Mihawk.

As strong as Mihawk or stronger as Mihawk? Anyway I rly would like to hear ur "more evidence".

Just to let u know, Shanks is one of my favourite chars, I mean look at my forum nick, its almost copied from him. But Im reading the facts with a neutral viewpoint and imo everything hints towards him being weaker than Mhk, even if its just 1%

But Im relieved, u stopped laughing and started to take my posts seriously.