Discussion Blackbeard's Strength

[kkck]

While he's had it for a while, he hasn't had it for as long as the other fruit users e.g. Ace

That is perhaps what makes the man so admirable. That even though he has not had it as long, he was able to defeat a former superior

Ace left around 3 years before luffy and I heard he got his power after leaving. Now, you could argue ace hasn't mastered his fruit either but that would be as baseless as the assumption that BB hasn't master it...

 

[Rotten The Wizard]

I'm also putting BB over Enel. Enel had home advantage in Sky Pia, like Corco in Alabasta (desert). That would mean he would be less impressive than as he was shown in Sky Pia. His Raigu would also require more time, since the distance to soil.

On BB's fruit, I agree with kkck. There are no hints saying that he hasn't mastered the fruit. About the time, well read EL (Kaku and Kalifa). Also like I mentioned in other BB discussion, he hasn't shown us his full ability's. He didn't go all out on Ace, cause there was no need. Ace wasn't strong enough.

Could u give me a link plz

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/441/02/

1. He seems to be very stationary during the fight, which is a very bad thing due to his weakness, he's a sitting duck

2. His vortex is a very very risky trick and wont really work against people his size. It worked well with ace cause ace is alot smaller so he was able to grab ace as if he were a child.

3. When his DF is activated the darkness only runs over his back which is a very bad thing singe he cant phase through attacks and he doesnt move either. He's also a huge target. There are alot of people out there who can move faster than BB can activate his vortex.

He can improve in all those areas. In my eyes BB isnt one of the strongest people in this manga since he has some major weaknesses.

Put him against someone who uses Weapons or Rankyaku and he'd be a dead man. Zoro would split his stomach open.
Notice that Ace landed quite a few attacks on him. Had that been one of zoro's flying slashes or Kaku's Rankyaku he would've been dead.

His power is very great but he's a massive sitting duck and given the fact that he cant cover his entire body with the vortex thats a MAJOR weakness.

Liberation is very cool but it would be alot better if he could utilize Liberation in his palm like Vortex

He has alot of areas to improve on.
People dont get that He'll be the most powerful villain EVENTUALLY, but he's not right now. Like luffy he has yet to master his power. That will happen gradually.

In doing that Oda just proves his genius. A villain who actually has to grow his power over the course of the manga not God-like from the get-go

 

[Phase]

Put him against someone who uses Weapons or Rankyaku and he'd be a dead man. Zoro would split his stomach open.
Notice that Ace landed quite a few attacks on him. Had that been one of zoro's flying slashes or Kaku's Rankyaku he would've been dead.

Since when did Ace's attacks become so weak? If I remember correctly, Ace completely destroyed like 5 huge ships with one punch. Now Zoro's attacks are supposed to be way better than that?

It sounds to me like you just don't like BB's character design. That's the drawback of his fruit, he's SUPPOSED to take all the damage thrown his way. Things like dodging would be in direct conflict with his character design. It's reasonable to assume that he can take more damage than anyone else in the One Piece world. He's like the One Piece version of Rocky.

 

[Gecko Moria]

Ace left around 3 years before luffy and I heard he got his power after leaving. Now, you could argue ace hasn't mastered his fruit either but that would be as baseless as the assumption that BB hasn't master it...

It's also baseless to argue that Ace and Blackbeard have completely mastered their fruit. I assume neither of them have had their fruits for as long as some of the other powerful people in One Piece (Kizaru, Aokiji, Kuma etc.) so it is highly unlikely that they have.

An interesting point about Devil Fruits is that their abilities can nearly always be honed further. Attaining complete mastery over a Devil Fruit means they have reached the epitome of the fruit's powers, which I doubt they have considering, again, the length of time they've had it in comparison to others. Even back in Nanohana, it was shown that Ace had not even achieved the ability to automatically turn into his element yet (unlike someone like Crocodile and Kizaru), causing him (and Smoker) to be sent flying when Luffy used his Gum Gum Rocket.

 

[Rotten The Wizard]

Since when did Ace's attacks become so weak? If I remember correctly, Ace completely destroyed like 5 huge ships with one punch. Now Zoro's attacks are supposed to be way better than that?

It sounds to me like you just don't like BB's character design. That's the drawback of his fruit, he's SUPPOSED to take all the damage thrown his way. Things like dodging would be in direct conflict with his character design. It's reasonable to assume that he can take more damage than anyone else in the One Piece world. He's like the One Piece version of Rocky.

lol
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/159/18-19/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/441/15/
Don't u see a difference in attack power?

BB sucked in ace's Larger attacks

He has no defense, thats his flaw.
I'm not claiming zoro is stronger than Ace, I'm just saying his fighting style woud've been more effective. And yes I do believe that Zoro's attacks are more damaging than ace's fire lances

 

[RichardMNixon]

lol
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/159/18-19/

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/440/16/

Don't u see a difference in attack power?

Nope

BB sucked in ace's Larger attacks

He has no defense, thats his flaw.
I'm not claiming zoro is stronger than Ace, I'm just saying his fighting style woud've been more effective. And yes I do believe that Zoro's attacks are more damaging than ace's fire lances

So you're saying Zoro isn't stronger, but that swords can kill people and fire can't? How do you reconcile that? He doesn't need a defense, that's his strength, you just can't kill the bastard. He took hit after hit, smiling about it, and was still standing. http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/441/17/

That said, I don't think he's at Whitebeard's level just yet. http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/523/12/

 

[Phase]

lol
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/159/18-19/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/441/15/
Don't u see a difference in attack power?

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/440/16/
You realize that the Hiken was the very first attack that Ace tried right? It wasn't enough so it's reasonable to assume that the next attacks were more powerful. It wouldn't make any sense for Ace to go to weaker attacks if the stronger one didn't work.

He most certainly has defense, but it's completely different from every other logia. Other logia users rely on evasion for defense. BB relies on resilience for defense. He willingly takes the damage and just survives through it. It's unreasonable to think that any strawhat can deal enough damage to kill him when Ace can't even come close.

 

[Gecko Moria]

Question: In regards to Blackbeard's ability to negate the powers of Devil Fruits: Is it automatic or does he have to think about it to happen?

 

[Phase]

Question: In regards to Blackbeard's ability to negate the powers of Devil Fruits: Is it automatic or does he have to think about it to happen?

I think it works the same way as Croc's ability to dry people out, so my guess is that he has to think about it. I don't really have any evidense to support that though.

 

[kkck]

It's also baseless to argue that Ace and Blackbeard have completely mastered their fruit. I assume neither of them have had their fruits for as long as some of the other powerful people in One Piece (Kizaru, Aokiji, Kuma etc.) so it is highly unlikely that they have.

An interesting point about Devil Fruits is that their abilities can nearly always be honed further. Attaining complete mastery over a Devil Fruit means they have reached the epitome of the fruit's powers, which I doubt they have considering, again, the length of time they've had it in comparison to others. Even back in Nanohana, it was shown that Ace had not even achieved the ability to automatically turn into his element yet (unlike someone like Crocodile and Kizaru), causing him (and Smoker) to be sent flying when Luffy used his Gum Gum Rocket.

Yet when ace was shot he instinctively transformed into fire.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/440/13/
I am willing to bet that the speed of a bullet >>>>>>> speed of luffy being thrown.

 

[Xenos3421]

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/441/02/

1. He seems to be very stationary during the fight, which is a very bad thing due to his weakness, he's a sitting duck

2. His vortex is a very very risky trick and wont really work against people his size. It worked well with ace cause ace is alot smaller so he was able to grab ace as if he were a child.

3. When his DF is activated the darkness only runs over his back which is a very bad thing singe he cant phase through attacks and he doesnt move either. He's also a huge target. There are alot of people out there who can move faster than BB can activate his vortex.

He can improve in all those areas. In my eyes BB isnt one of the strongest people in this manga since he has some major weaknesses.

Put him against someone who uses Weapons or Rankyaku and he'd be a dead man. Zoro would split his stomach open.
Notice that Ace landed quite a few attacks on him. Had that been one of zoro's flying slashes or Kaku's Rankyaku he would've been dead.

His power is very great but he's a massive sitting duck and given the fact that he cant cover his entire body with the vortex thats a MAJOR weakness.

Liberation is very cool but it would be alot better if he could utilize Liberation in his palm like Vortex

He has alot of areas to improve on.
People dont get that He'll be the most powerful villain EVENTUALLY, but he's not right now. Like luffy he has yet to master his power. That will happen gradually.

In doing that Oda just proves his genius. A villain who actually has to grow his power over the course of the manga not God-like from the get-go

Hmmm, this is one of those times i'd have to disagree with ya' man.

Like, all 3 of your points are speculations that that aren't ratified in the manga. You keep mention his "weakness" by being a "sitting duck" or not being able to cover his body with a vortex.

None of those seem like weaknesses in the fight he was in.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/441/11/

That's just his fruit; he cannot let things pass through him.

(IMHO, letting attacks go through you like regular Logia's just make you weaker cuz you'll forget what getting hit is like.)
Secondly, the whole 2nd point begs me to ask why? Size doesn't always matter, no joke, 'member Oz?
It's possible to be smaller and stronger then your opponent in One piece.
And why would think speed has anything to do with Vortex? I don't see it.

I understand you think he's imperfect so he can gradually get buffer and buffer until he's the most powerful enemy left, but why does he need to do that when before he even had his teaser fight, Shanks reveals that he scared him and that he was a threat.

And then you find out he has the "Anti-DF" Devil fruit.

He doesn't need training, he's certainly a powerful guy! from the start he's been depicted as strong and foreshadowed so long that he just might not be the "final" enemy after all.

Is One Piece really so predictable that a mere 500 chapters deep we think we know who the big bad final boss'l be???

 

[Gecko Moria]

Yet when ace was shot he instinctively transformed into fire.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/440/13/
I am willing to bet that the speed of a bullet >>>>>>> speed of luffy being thrown.

I said he was not able to transform automatically into fire in Nanohana. He should be able to now and during his fight against Blackbeard, since he would have trained on it as it is quite a life-savingly important ability.

Regardless, the fact that he has only relatively recently been able to achieve this is testament to how he has not completely mastered his fruit's powers. And if he hasn't, then I'm pretty certain that someone who got a fruit him i.e. Blackbeard has not mastered his fruit's power's either.

 

[Lord Rayleigh]

I said he was not able to transform automatically into fire in Nanohana. He should be able to now and during his fight against Blackbeard, since he would have trained on it as it is quite a life-savingly important ability.

We do not know if turning automatically into logia mode has something to do with training.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/441/10/
When Ace shot BB, he was surprised even if it was a quick attack (if you look on the page, you will see that BB did not have the time to fully understand what happened) that he could be injured and thought he could transform automatically in a logia mode.
We all know BB was not able to because his DF do not allow him to BUT it seems according to Ace's reaction that Logia users can transform automatically and it has nothing to do with training.
Otherwise Ace would not have been so surprised about someone who has just eaten his DF, was not able to do - because of his lack of DF experience and mastering - to turn into it automatically.

 

[Gecko Moria]

We do not know if turning automatically into logia mode has something to do with training.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/441/10/
When Ace shot BB, he was surprised even if it was a quick attack (if you look on the page, you will see that BB did not have the time to fully understand what happened) that he could be injured and thought he could transform automatically in a logia mode.
We all know BB was not able to because his DF do not allow him to BUT it seems according to Ace's reaction that Logia users can transform automatically and it has nothing to do with training.
Otherwise Ace would not have been so surprised about someone who has just eaten his DF, was not able to do - because of his lack of DF experience and mastering - to turn into it automatically.

What else can it be to do with other than training? We already know it's not an ability that is obtained on the first day of consuming the fruit from the Ace+Smoker+Luffy incident. Ace probably thinks Blackbeard should have been able to automatically turn into his element because that is what most relatively experienced logias are able to do.

 

[DutchPhoenix]

i wonder how blackbeard would do if he gets poisoned by maggalen

 

[Razh]

Yet when ace was shot he instinctively transformed into fire.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/440/13/
I am willing to bet that the speed of a bullet >>>>>>> speed of luffy being thrown.

It wasn't instinctively. We may not have seen Auge pointing the gun at Ace, but he was looking right at him. He saw Auge pointing the gun at him. And, being faced with a number of dangerous enemies, was probably ready for an attack too.

The assumption that he trained his DF enough for his body to react on his own doesn't have much base. It's only a guess.

i wonder how blackbeard would do if he gets poisoned by maggalen

Why wonder? He would do like anybody else would have.

 

[Lord Rayleigh]

What else can it be to do with other than training? We already know it's not an ability that is obtained on the first day of consuming the fruit from the Ace+Smoker+Luffy incident.

I'm not fully convinced about this example as Smoker was wearing a kairouseki sword on his back.
And do you not think that Ace and Smoker are enough experienced to avoid - as you supposed it to be a failure of the both logias to prevent the damages - a surprise Luffy attack ?
This supposition about the training seems to be contradictory with your vision of this event : that both experienced logias fails at the same moment from the same attack, does it have a high probability ?

Ace probably thinks Blackbeard should have been able to automatically turn into his element because that is what most relatively experienced logias are able to do.

It depends on what his relatively experienced for you.
Of course, the logias users are not able to turn automatically (and even consciously) in logia mode the next minutes, not to say the next hour, after they eat their fruit.
The best example of it is the one in the Enies Lobby Arc (with Kaku and Kalifa) : it proves us that it need a little time for the DF users to understand what power they have and how to handle it at least.

 

[BlackHair]

@Rotten The Wizard
1. As many pointed out, BB's ability to suck everything in, makes him to a stone. He can take everything and thus he isn't supposed to move.

2. I fail to see why he can't grab and hit bigger ppl than him.

3. That is the price he has to pay for his darkness ability. It is actually a weakness, which he himself stated. I don't see how this point is supposed to prove that he hasn't masted his ability.

But you have convinced me, given the time he probably has still room to improve. I just thought that he is old, so he must have already mastered his ability, but that wouldn't affect the short time, he is with this fruit.

Even back in Nanohana, it was shown that Ace had not even achieved the ability to automatically turn into his element yet (unlike someone like Crocodile and Kizaru), causing him (and Smoker) to be sent flying when Luffy used his Gum Gum Rocket.

No Ace already had the ability to automatically turn into his element. As u can see he fought Smoker in a complete fire form. Also Smoker himself, who proofed in Loguetown that he can automatically turn into his element, was crashed alongside Ace by Luffy.

My explanation, they need to be aware that get attacked, so they switch from "physical" to "automatically turn into element form".

i wonder how blackbeard would do if he gets poisoned by maggalen

Maybe he could suck the poison out of his body by the darkness, similar how he did to the fire from Ace. But poison mixes with the blood, so I'm not sure if BB can do that. It's fictional, so we have to ask Oda lol

 

[Razh]

He can grab people who are bigger than him, but it's not always a good thing. If he were to drag Kuma, for example, towards him, it would help Kuma more than it would help him.
But that's my opinion. Base on what we saw Kuma and Pacifistas are able to do.

 

[hisoga]

i dont why people alway saying that BB doesn't mastered his df right now.. if it is becoz he cant evade attak like other logia's, i think that would be stupid coz that make 'logia type fruit' = 'paramecia type fruit'.. the only different is the user master or not his df.. so one day, some people will say that mr.3 and magellan is logia df user coz they are completely master their df power someday later on.. this is why people alway having confusing about doku-doku df and another paramecia df similar to it...

can evade like others logia's user doesn't mean weak and can be kill by someone that has gun, sword or anything that are lethal.. if that how people thing, then, luffy is<<<<<<<<<<<<<<zoro..he will die instantly coz zoro will cut him half..

as we seen at the beginning of the story, people that has df power is very strong and scary bcoz all the unique and weird ability are rare in the normal world(outside grandline).. df are considered a legend... but as the story goes-later in the grandline we see that many people are posses this power and the only thing that make the person godlike is what kind of df power he/she posses-like enel..

but as we seen, as more real godlike character reveal/introduce, the story become more and more epic, we now that depending on df only like sir Croodile(he's fully mastered his df power as he stated) will only make you 'super' but not real godlike or bad ass like shank and mihawk... the real winner is back to the basic... the one that posses real skill,strength,luck,intelligent and spirit will win..and df is just a bonus...

what make me think like this is because since the beginning of the story, when oda introduce logia type df, i always ask myself why does this people -smoke,ace,etc- that are become the pirate king or king of the world.. they are invincible...

right now i begin to understand why...

that all..thanks for reading and sorry 4 the opinian and bad english..