CP9 vs Kuma-bots

[op3l]

I think only Lucci can beat Pacifista Kuma bots

 

[BlackHair]

I don't get why ppl assume CP9's teamwork is better than the SH's. I think while fighting Oz+Moria and the PX-4 they proofed their excellent teamwork. CP9 might be as good as them but not better.


About the past opponent thing, well it might been a month or two, but Luffy also invented G2 and 3 while riding the sea train. So I believe time doesn't rly matter.

 

[Razh]

About the past opponent thing, well it might been a month or two, but Luffy also invented G2 and 3 while riding the sea train. So I believe time doesn't rly matter.

That's just your opinion. It's not an argument and it won't be, until we find out for sure. But that may never happen.

People don't get stronger in One Piece faster than in other mangas. Lucci is still stronger than most of the admirals and Luffy is not that much stronger now. Only thing he can do now and couldn't before is combination of G2 and G3.

 

[Belisar]

1. strawhats defeated one and were exhausted. cp9 can manage to kill one but they will die at the next.

 

[BlackHair]

That's just your opinion. It's not an argument and it won't be, until we find out for sure. But that may never happen.

A opinion which I supported with manga/facts. As long none proofs it wrong, it is valid. And yes it is an argument. It shows us that they get stronger after each arc, without training! Other example would be which u already mentioned: a combination of G2+3; firstly sown on TB.

On SA weren't any new skills shown, yet it's safe to assume that they got faster and stronger. As story goes on the opponents for the SHs gets stronger, same goes for them.

People don't get stronger in One Piece faster than in other mangas.

In other Manga character usually train, but in OP they don't. That is maybe the reason why it seems that they get stronger faster than in other manga.

btw while fighting CP9 Robin and Brook were missing.

 

[DutchPhoenix]

zoro trains non stop lol ^^

 

[Razh]

A opinion which I supported with manga/facts. As long none proofs it wrong, it is valid. And yes it is an argument. It shows us that they get stronger after each arc, without training! Other example would be which u already mentioned: a combination of G2+3; firstly sown on TB.

I supported my different opinion with manga facts as well. I wasn't the only one either. As long as you or anybody can't prove that it's wrong, it could also be right.
Enforcing your own opinion like it's something certain is really unfair to the people who think differently. That's all.

G2+3 isn't a good example. He might have been able to do it before, just didn't think of trying it.

 

[BlackHair]

I supported my different opinion with manga facts as well. I wasn't the only one either. As long as you or anybody can't prove that it's wrong, it could also be right.

No u didn't. I went through trouble finding this thread. U disagreed saying, it is hard to believe that Luffy came up with his gears on Rocketman. That's all I could find and small mistakes(s) in my posts.

Enforcing your own opinion like it's something certain is really unfair to the people who think differently. That's all.

I had no intention to force my opinion. Though said "opinion", I just connected the hints in the manga, which were given to us by Oda. It is easy to read and to understand, so I don't rly get why u are disagreeing.

G2+3 isn't a good example. He might have been able to do it before, just didn't think of trying it.

Luffy was fighting a death match with Lucci. Who even threatened to kill his nakama. There is absolutely NO reason for Luffy to go easy. He used EVERYTHING he had. A combination of G2+3 was not possible at that time, simple conclusion imo.

Spoiler: Gear thing offtopic

• We know Luffy saw soru while fighting CP9 on W7
  
• While riding Rocketman to EL, he mentioned a new technique which he would like to test (Panel 4).
  
• On EL while fighting Bluneo,
  Luffy tells him, that he noticed how they move (Panel 3-5).
  
• He said himself, he was glad to met them, basically he was thanking them.
  
• Blueno confirms Soru on G2 Luffy (Panel 3 and 4). This page alone confirms that Luffy enveloped Gear 2 after meeting CP9. Thus he must have come up with that while riding Rocketman from W7 to EL.

But that is a different discussion. Has almost nothing to do with this one. I still think CP9 could defeat 1-2 max 3 Pacisfistas.

Edit :

Your whole case was based on what Luffy had said to Blueno, while in fact he could have just meant that he learned how to move faster thanks to seeing CP9 members use Soru.

Actually that is what I meant. A big part of Gear 2 is speed. Soru is a form of fast movement. After seeing how they move, he invented Gear 2. Maybe he had similar ideas before, but Gear2 was only complete after seeing Soru. That's why he must have come up with the idea any time between the encounters with CP9.
btw my whole case is based on the last page I posted, the one with Blueno confirming soru with his flashback on Luffy who thanked him.

 

[Razh]

Your whole case was based on what Luffy had said to Blueno, while in fact he could have just meant that he learned how to move faster thanks to seeing CP9 members use Soru. There's no real evidence to support your theory, or mine.

But I agree, though, that they should be able to beat at least 2 or 3 Pacifistas.

 

[kkck]

I don´t get how some people here think CP9 could beat more pacifista than what the strawhats did. The strawhats are stronger as a whole and have more members, yet they only defeated 1 and barely at that. Not to mention the strawhats had nami who could use electrick attacks, which contributed greatly to the victory. All of the CP9 members fight exclusively up front, the only member who has a different special ability was kalifa, and how much she could accomplish is debatable.

 

[Razh]

Nami's lightnings didn't do much. And you can't say that they barely defeated one of them. None of them was killed or even hurt. They weren't exactly fresh. Luffy tires easily using his gears, Zoro is still hurting. But they all still had strength in them after that. They would have beaten another one of those.

Blueno has a special ability too. And has shown that he can make doors on his opponents as well. You saying that Nami was the deciding factor for the victory against Pacifista?
Check what abilities CP9 have. Look how Rankyaku Gaichou went through steel like it's nothing.

 

[kkck]

Nami's lightnings didn't do much. And you can't say that they barely defeated one of them. None of them was killed or even hurt. They weren't exactly fresh. Luffy tires easily using his gears, Zoro is still hurting. But they all still had strength in them after that. They would have beaten another one of those.

Blueno has a special ability too. And has shown that he can make doors on his opponents as well. You saying that Nami was the deciding factor for the victory against Pacifista?
Check what abilities CP9 have. Look how Rankyaku Gaichou went through steel like it's nothing.

It was only after namis lighting the pacifista went beserk though. Somehow her electricity did do something. Although I do agree in that it was not the deciding factors.
I do think they barely defeated him because all nine of them used their most powerful techniques and were completely exhausted after the fight. Even the strawhats had doubts about being able to take another one.

Remember kuma vs zoro? Zoro could not even scratch w.e metal kuma was made of even though he used the technique he used to slash mr 1 like he was nothing. Sanji almost broke his leg when he kicked him. The pacifista are not made of normal metal, I honestly doubt rankyaku would do much against them.

The strawhats were stronger and more numerous than CP9 and yet, from any point of view, they had to go all out to defeat just one body. I just don't see cp9 getting past a second one.

 

[BlackHair]

Well I expect 2 and maximal 3, really with a lof of luck and good teamwork with Blueno's door ability. They could use that dimension to rest, though they won't have any medial treatment, a rest can still help. Also he could use that on the PX to open doors on the body. But I don't really see a good use for Kalifa ability though.

About the damage, I think the SHs would do more. I mean Asura surpasses any cutting technique from CP9, even that from Kaku: Amendachi (spelling?). Franky has his fire, Robin her hands to stop the PX shooting laser out of his mouth and Nami her lightning. But they get faster exhausted (Luffy) and don't have a way to rest like CP9.

 

[firework]

Lucci is still stronger than most of the admirals and Luffy is not that much stronger now. Only thing he can do now and couldn't before is combination of G2 and G3.

whoa whoa whoa
Lucci is NOT stronger than Kizaru or Aokiji; that is almost certain. He may be stronger than Akainu, thats not certain

 

[BlackHair]

Im sure he meant Vice-Admirals.

 

[Lord Rayleigh]

Im sure he meant Vice-Admirals.

whoa whoa whoa.
I do not agree either with that postulate. See, the Vice-Admirals topic here.

 

[Razh]

Lucci is stronger than most of the admirals. That at least is obvious.

If each vice-admiral were that strong, than the number of pirates in the sea would be declining instead of growing. Lucci is close to the Shichibukai level if not equal to some of them.
Are you implying that vice-admirals are as strong as Shichibukai? That would totally negate their usefulness.

 

[BlackHair]

whoa whoa whoa.
I do not agree either with that postulate. See, the Vice-Admirals topic here.

Don't take Lucci lightly. Even Kuma and the Buster Call Vice Admiral were speaking highly of him. I would put Lucci equal to any average VA. And I already posted in that thread

Just to make my point clear : Garp, Saulo and John Giant are imo not ordinary.

 

[Yabe]

Moderator Notice:
Moved all of the posts after this point to the Strength of the Vice-Admirals thread because they were overloaded with VA's-Lucci's strength comparative discussion that fits to the Vice Admirals' thread more.~ Yabe

 

[braindamage351]

People fall into the trap of using Luffy as an intermediary. Luffy is highly limited, all he can do is punch people. He always gets lucky (because it's his fate to win) and finds a way to undermine the opponent's abilities. That doesn't mean he can match them. Lucci has a bunch of versatile tricks. For one, he's constantly fast, unlike Luffy who's only fast during Gear 2nd. And perhaps more importantly, he has Rokuougan, which may be able to bypass the Pacifista armor. People actually focus too much on level and too little on special abilities when it comes to One Piece (normally it's the other way around with anime).