Shounen Claymore by Norihiro Yagi

[HegemonKhan]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

Not that we've seen*. However, we have seen heterosexuality both directly and indirectly:

*Ophelia-Clare incident, was not a lesbian scene, but rather Ophelia's "MUST PLAY WITH, TORTURE/TEASE/MOCK, AND KILL AWAKENEDS" fetish, and Clare as a HA seemed to be an Awakened to Ophelia. Which is strange, because Ophelia never tried to kill HA Miria, despite witnessing Miria past her limit, so maybe there's something even more different about Clare, or maybe it was just jealousy of Clare+Raki reminding Ophelia of herself+her brother, on top of Clare seeming to be an Awakened. Meh. I don't know why Ophelia tried to kill Clare but not Miria.

directly:

1. Clare (female) <3 Raki (male)
2. Priscilla (female) questionably/arguably <3 Raki (male)... or not...
3. Agatha (female) <3 Cid (male)
4. Cid (human) <3 Clare (female) ... she allowed him to kiss her... to Raki's jealousy, though Raki kicks Cid where it counted...
5. Teresa (female) didn't mind letting the bandits (males), including Rig (male), mate with her... though none of them ever actually did so.
6. Riful (female) romantically <3 Dauf (male)

Indirectly:

1. Normal yomas (males) take human females as sexual "toys/pets" (possibly such as Clare)
2. Some Claymores (females) from time to time have taken human males as sexual "toys/pets"
3. Clare uses/trained in seduction/sexuality, and has been seen using it on males, and also telling Raki about it, with her "prostitute's smile", though sadly she never showed it, much to all of us guys' disappointment, lol. RAKI, you imbecile, why did you say no?!!!!! ARGH!

Speculations:

1. Riful (female) originally <3 Isley (male)
2. Luciela (female) once <3 Isley (male)
3. Clare (female) was possibly raped by the normal yomas (males)

 

[Godeye_Galatea]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

Ohkay! That's nice to know. Then maybe I should disregard those pictures that I've been seeing where in Claymores portray they have romantic feelings towards each other.

Thanks a lot Sir HK.

But wait! Agatha <3 Cid?! Where can I see that part? I wasn't aware of that.

 

[HegemonKhan]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

she offers her body (with ALL of the human female's body parts, cough reproductive system cough) to "handsome" Cid, before she would then kill him (though Galatea "saves" him and it never happens, lol. Maybe Galatea made up for it later on, )

ch 75 page 5: Rabona soldiers talking about the naked Awakened Agatha: ~"Are we in a dream?". LOL

ch 75 page 6-7: A NOT handsome enough Rabona soldier for Agatha, hehe. Though, he did get to kiss her lips

ch 75 page 9-10: NOT handsome enough Rabona soldiers for Agatha, hehe. They didn't even get to kiss her lips.

...dun dun dun...

ch 75 page 14: Agatha you naughty girl!

Cid: ~"I'm not into monsters" .... OUCH, Agatha got rejected! Cid LOVES CLARE, ROFL! Clare is more hot than you are Agatha even when naked and offering yourself to me!


ch 75 pages 16-18: Galatea "saves" Cid

ch 75 page 19: Galatea then just tosses him away.... literally, lol. Cid wasn't good enough for Galatea, she prefers "big guy" Galk, lol. (ch 75 pages 15-16), though she did throw him away too literally, lol. Meh.

 

[Godeye_Galatea]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

I think I missed that! Wow, I'm amazed something like that happened and I wasn't aware. I really need to re-read the manga. I'm missing a lot of things!

On the other hand, I just thought that those arguments you posted earlier only applies to several people. So basically we could say that 'some' claymores are lesbian then.

 

[HegemonKhan]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

the examples I gave in previous post was showing heterosexual (male+female) romantic interests, not homosexual (female+female or male+male. obviously, in this case, lesbian, as that is what you're asking about) interests.

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Nothing says that they can't be lesbians, but at the same time, we haven't seen any such lesbian interests by them.

there's definately love between many female characters, but it's NOT romantic (lesbian) love:

Clare+Teresa
Deneve+Helen
Miria+Hilda
Clare+Jean
Alicia+Beth
Rafaela+Luciela
Clare+Elena
Yuma+Clare
Deneve+Clare
Helen+Clare
Ophelia+Clare
Irene+Clare
Miria+Clare
Galatea+Clare
Miata+Clarice
Deneve+Miria
Helen+Miria
Miria+Tabatha
Cynthia+Yuma
Cynthia+Clare
Tabatha+Clare
Audrey+Rachel
Deneve+Undine
Undine+her fellow friend Claymore
Clare+Flora
etc..

 

[Godeye_Galatea]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

ch 75 page 19: Galatea then just tosses him away.... literally, lol. Cid wasn't good enough for Galatea, she prefers "big guy" Galk, lol. (ch 75 pages 15-16), though she did throw him away too literally, lol. Meh.

I know who she prefers, it's Miria. Just, kidding.

On your latter post, I think most of them are like friends. And as for the other it's because they are the same, meaning they are both Claymores that shares the same fate and the likes.

Now I understand. Thanks for clarifying Sir HK! That's really a great help.

 

[HegemonKhan]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

hmm, I shouldn't have used love, as it has a lot of meanings, and I never explained what meaning I meant for love, lol.

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Replace my use of love with caring, as all of those pairings I showed, specifically deeply care about each other, well beyond normal caring that they might have for others.

(Clare and Miria are of course the popular ones, in this caring aspect, lol. Though, Clare completely beats out Miria, despite Miria's admiration from her leadership abilities and "fame"/renown/prestige, lol. Clare is like Naruto in both of their abilities to attract/receive/get caring from others. Miria's is more "fake" based on her leadership abilities and the "fame"/renown/prestige that comes with it. "People flock to a great leader", whereas Clare actually earns their caring/love, despite not being a leader like Miria is)

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Clare creates actual deep friendships, whereas Miria creates admiration-followers, though if they get to know Miria, she's much like Clare, with a very "weak" (soft/caring) heart, and that creates friendships like Clare is able to. But, initially or solely if they don't get to know her more personally, Miria's "supporters" are just "flocking to her as a great leader".

 

[wickedsmile]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

HK:

Love (it has many aspects/facets) is the accurate term for the feelings that some of the characters have for each other or for other individuals. Clare loves Teresa as a daughter loves a mother. Miria loves Hilda as an elder sister. We can say that Helen and Deneve love each other as sisters. Irrespective of her statements to the contrary, Clare does love Raki. From the deep kiss she gave him in The Endless Gravestones, you could infer that something more existed.

WS

 

[Fê - forever alone]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

I think Helen and Deneve are much more than just friends, and theire love is much bigger than fraternal love, lol.

Same goes for Miria and Hilda. But the most perceptible one is Tabitha. Her admiration for Miria goes beyond anything I ever seen, lol. Her feelings for Miria are the most deeply crazy in love character, lol.

By the way, I envy Raki and Hilda. T_T

 

[Godeye_Galatea]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

That one pretty twisted my calmness again, Fe!

I do agree with you about Helen and Deneve. I think it is really much deeper than friendship. Based on what we are presented, we can definitely produce several conclusions. But then basing on my own opinion, I think its really more than friends. Because me as a girl, I think I would not do those kind of things that Helen and Deneve do, to my friend or even my bestfriend. Well, that's just my opinion.

Another thing for Miria and Hilda, I think I would agree with WS' post. I believe Miria loves Hilda as an elder sister and she's really into it. She used Hilda as her inspiration to reach the same rank Hilda was.

I believe things like homosexual relationships in Claymore can happen because of the environment they are in. Just imagine you're a female working with the same sex, thriving for life, feeling a lot of physical, mental and emotional pain... Psychologically, anybody caught in that situation will try to find comfort and since you are surrounded dominantly by females there is a huge percentage that you'll go for them. And the percentage increases with the fact that you are experiencing the same thing (e.g. undergone half human/half yoma experiments and such).

 

[HegemonKhan]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

Yes, if females are in the same situation and behaving like males (forced with having high testosterone, adrenaline, and aggressiveness, or they'll just get killed in battle), they too will act like males which includes the homosexual closeness-play-or actual "romance" as seen over and over in situations where it's a large number of males together and with no females available (military, sports, or some work fields too). Females will be just as susceptible to this as males are, and engage in homosexual closeness-play-or actual "romance/sex"

if you don't have the opposite gender available, you don't have much options for your sexual desires/urges, be they playfulness or actual "romance/sex". it's really that simple and applies to both females and males.

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Love doesn't have to involve "romance/sex". Helen and Deneve are two deeply close friends (or rather "BFFs") or "sisters/brothers" (well sisters as they're both female, but its the same among brothers too, the closeness without actual "romance/sex").

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actually that's a good way to describe these pairings (HK claps himself on the back), lol:

BFFs = Best Friends Forever !!!

Helen+Deneve are BFFs

Miria+Hilda are BFFs

Clare+Teresa are BFFs

etc...

 

[Godeye_Galatea]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

Ohkay, ohkay... They can be that BFF you were saying. But I think I saw something in them that makes them more than BFF. I just forgot what chapter or episode in the anime was that. I also forgot what they did. The only thing I remember was me concluding they were more than friends.

 

[HegemonKhan]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

oh, it's certainly possible it goes into "romance/sexual feelings for each other". I'd have to see the source your addressing to see/decide for myself, lol, about specifically Deneve+Helen. Though that high level of closeness can stil be without "romance/sexual feelings for each other", as there is this concept/idea of Love that is far beyond mere romance/sex

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there is indeed romance/sexual feelings for each other in Claymore too:

Raki+Clare = <3
Riful+Dauf = <3
Agatha somewhat <3 Cid
Cid <3 Clare
Father Vincent ("Jariya") <3 Clarice (just look at his eyes dilate and his lips widen in a naughty smile when Clarice comes running out in just a bath towel barely wrapped/held around her body! Pervy old man!)
(seemingly at first) Priscilla <3 Raki
etc..
(how'd I forget the bandits <3 Teresa, well that is until they saw her body, lol)
etc..

 

[wickedsmile]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

It's the chapters where Helen/Deneve fight Isley and when they fight Priscilla. I believe it is Helen that says this. Neither will die alone. If one should fall, then the other one will as well. Both would die together. Helen and Deneve share a very close relationship. They're long time friends that know each other intimately well. I don't believe the relationship has any romantic tones to it though. You can share your entire soul with someone and not feel the slightest romantic towards that person.

In regards to Father Vincent, I don't think believe that "envy" entered his thoughts. He was more likely surprised to see a naked young girl and a towel wrapped young woman running around in his church. Also, Agatha was merely toying with Cid (sadistic humor). If what Agatha showed was romance, I'll endeavor to become a hermit.

It should be an interesting revelation when Clare finally reunites with Raki. I don't think Yagi would be cruel enough to deprive us of this.

ws

 

[Godeye_Galatea]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

I think that scene when Father Vincent was somewhat shocked is that because he saw that 'thing' again, that somewhat fearful body of a Claymore.

We kept forgetting that first secret that Yagi introduced us. Yagi! When will you show it?

 

[HegemonKhan]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

But Clarice is barely a Claymore, she's much much more human (bodied) than Claymores are with her hair not lightening or turning blond, hehe.

Father Vincent rubbing his hands together and thinking devilishly: "Oooh! She's so hot and such much less like a Claymore and so more so like a Human, what a hot young "Humanish" woman, unlike these beautiful but monstrous Claymores!"

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meh, I just see Father Vincent, as not being that celibrate (as he did violate the religious code by asking the Organization and Rimuto for help, he doesn't seem to be a "true believer" of the religion and rules of Rabona holy city, so why not disobeying celibracy too) and as a "pervy old sage/man" ("jariya").

the body language of his face and reaction to Clarice.... just seemed to tell me he's "a pervy old man" ! It wasn't shock (as he himself said, due to Clare so many years earlier, he already gotten use to the hideous/inhuman "thing" on Claymores' bodies) ... but pervy delight on his face at seeing Clarice running out in the bath towel !

Now, HOPEFULLY he was in shock at seeing Miata running out naked or else he's a ..... too...

(yes, he worked on/bandaged up Clare's naked body, but she had that inhuman "thing" on her just like Teresa, and just like the bandits being turned off by it, I'm sure Father Vincent is too. But, now that young Humanish Clarice.... Heck, maybe Clarice doesn't even have the hideous/inhuman "thing" on her body...)

 

[Fê - forever alone]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

Well, I do think some of them are lesbians - or at least - bisexual, but that is just their "nature", like HK said, their urges;

When it comes about love, man, I see/understand Claymore is so much ways. Claymore is a story about love and the darkness/goodness that come from it.

I mean, look how love affect the characters, what love does with them, what love causes them.

Priscilla - by loving so much her family - got/was broken inside when she saw them being slaughtered by a youma who looked like her father. Her love caused her trauma, that remained forever, changed her and affected her character.

Teresa - by loving so much her relatives - lost all hope in humanity when she was sold to the organization. Then, she just lost her will to live, she just lived without a reason, without anything. But when Clare gave her love, she changed. All that coldness, all that sadness dissappear because love. And also, all her cruelty and toughness, what caused her death.

Miria - well, I won't even mention her because I don't want to remember all the pain, lol;

We can list much more characters that were affected by love and it's collateral effects. And we can also list some of them that were affected and "saved" by love and it's goodness - though it's a few of them, and they weren't really saved by love, lol.

Claymore is such a tragic story about love, life, hate and a lot of more things. Everytime I stop to think about it, I love it more and more. I just can't helped, lol.

 

[ZERO PHOENIX]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

I don't get the Ellen vibe from Claymore. The fandom will go nuts with anything just to fulfill their own urges no matter how undiginified. I mean people are so sick nowadays that if two males characters say hi to each other in a manga there are yaoi fictions for days over that one small interaction. Of course the same is true for yuri nuts.

I see that connections between the Claymores are intimate without any romance or sexuality tied to it. A person can be intimate with another person without things ever going that far. I think that Clare and Teresa were intimate in the way that each was the sister the other wanted but never had. Likewise, with Helen or Deneve or at least BFFs. Helen even referred to Miria as big sis. Of course one could argue that it's part of the Japanese that snuck into the story but if it were that simple she would have called other Claymore's who were older than her big sis. So I see the relationships in Claymore as intimate but nothing where the yuri fanatics could "legitimately" get their kicks.

Moving on I'm not sure if this is the right place for it but does anyone find it odd that Dae brought up the subject of "the purge" in the more recent chapter? When was this? And why is it that Rimuto isn't even trying hard to play ignorant of Dae's inqueries? It's almost like he's saying, yeah I know about Priscilla. What are you going to do about it?

 

[Godeye_Galatea]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

I don't really care if they are lesbians or not. I like the story so far. It's really one of the best I've ever seen. It has a very nice plot, interesting characters and such. But please leave Miria and Galatea alone!

 

[wickedsmile]

Re: Claymore Hang-out Thread

To me love, affection, companionship has brought nothing but joy to the Claymores. Teresa found a daughter in Clare. Miria found an elder sister in Hilda. Helen and Deneve share a close kinship. Galatea found comfort in the presence of the orphan church children. Reflecting back on that day when Teresa died, even Irene admitted that she was deeply envious of what Teresa had found with Clare. In a sense, love did soften Teresa's resolve but by her own testimony, Teresa's heart and mind had died a long time ago. You could say that the daughter's love she found in Clare resurrected her soul.

I know that our protagonist Clare and her compatriot Miria are driven by guilt to avenge their loved ones. However, would you say that the guilt is driven by love or by despair?