Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2011] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[TitaniumChloride]

Its nice that Sakaki is giving us all this info. I especially love his photographs on his way to work and the way he tweets in English. His English is incredible! I hope we get more nuggets of information like this, I think it adds something to this thread.

So that twitter feed wasn't just a gimmick? (last time I saw it, it only had quotes from shonen manga...) Is there only an English one or is it mirroring a Japanese twitter account as well, does anyone know?

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And back on topic: Gintoki's face is just hilarious! Personally, I think Gintama should have been in the top 3 over Toriko, but I understand that the majority of its appeal isn't aimed at the target demographic, so meh.

I wonder if Toriko really will stay up in the spotlight though: I admit that I look forward to Toriko chapters more than I do Bleach's, but we're a considerable amount of chapters and arcs in and yet none of them are anything outstanding (e.g. Nami officially joining the Straw Hats and the defeat of Arlong, Naruto's Zabuza arc) The characters aren't all that memorable either...

 

[Tulkas]

Now im really concerned about Mago.
Very bad TOC-Positions and Nura in the last row of the Cover.
Still think WSJ would move it to SQ, but that would suck, the last two Years were disappointing, im not reading anything from the new batch and even the older Series aren't as entertaining as they were in the past(Reborn, Bleach, OP, bakuman...).

 

[Negative Syndicate]

Does anyone know any example that Shonen Jump series move to other magazine because of low ranking, like Mago.

And if people think D.Gray-man is one of them, I don't think it is because I think D.Gray-man has moved to SQ because of Hoshino's constant hiatus, not low ranking.

 

[BBB Banana]

Does anyone know any example that Shonen Jump series move to other magazine because of low ranking, like Mago.

And if people think D.Gray-man is one of them, I don't think it is because I think D.Gray-man has moved to SQ because of Hoshino's constant hiatus, not low ranking.

Shaman King?

 

[Finestela]

I didn't read the SS arc weekly, so I can't say if it was a good read weekly or not. But the way I read it, it was amazing. I don't think the arcs after the SS arc would be as good if I read it all in a big read now.

Bakuman is an awesome manga, but it's not shounen enough to be one of the "big 3". It probably won't have more than around 200 chapters, and therefore it won't sell as good as a "big 3" manga.

You should try it then, because I can assure you, it feels completely different than following it weekly.

Bakuman is already selling more than enough. It has nothing more to prove. Toriko, on the other hand, only barely beats out ToLoveRu Darkness in week one sales, and that's after months of pimping on WSJ, on top of TLRD running out of first print copies everywhere.

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And if people think D.Gray-man is one of them, I don't think it is because I think D.Gray-man has moved to SQ because of Hoshino's constant hiatus, not low ranking.

PoT was slumping at that time, and dipped pretty low at certain points.

You can't really tell with TLR's true rankings, since it's now known that Yabuki was barely making the weekly deadlines for printing, and that was a major issue in terms of ToC positioning (if you're late, you'll go near the back of the magazine).

Beshari was similar to TLR in terms of Author's personal issue, except it's sickness as opposed to custody battle. It was moved to YJ as a BiWeekly series.

SBR sort of crashed even in the pre-ch.8/9 ToC, meaning it was THAT bad, before going on hiatus and eventually moving to UJ.

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Shaman King?

Shaman King wasn't moved anywhere. It just ended, and then had a new proper ending when the complete edition came out.

 

[saladesu]

I agree that Bakuman is deserving, but Reborn, Gintama etc also sell pretty well. Toriko still has some way to go, but I'm pretty confident it will get there sooner or later with how consistently well it has been doing on the TOCs.

Funny how so many people responded to my innocent comment that people would continue calling Bleach a member of the big three Anyway what I meant by that was because of how naturally it comes to people now, and how everyone KNOWS that when you say "big 3" you mean "One Piece, Naruto, Bleach", people will continue to use it.

That aside, the quality of Bleach right now does not mean that Bleach's tank sales have plummeted. It is still one of the three best selling series currently running in Jump. And even when it has that place usurped, I will probably continue to call OP, Naruto and Bleach "big 3" because it's just easier to do that... Everyone at least on the internet manga community knows what you mean.

And if anyone wants to debate the topic of the concept of the Big 3, don't forget we have a thread for that...

 

[Negative Syndicate]

Shaman King?

Shaman King didn't move to other magazine.

Also, I found Shonen Jump series that moved to different magazine: Kinnikuman (1979 series), Captain Tsubasa (1981 series), Can Everyday (1983 series), Sekiryuuoh (1986 series), Jojo's Bizarre Adventure (1987 series), Bastard!! (1988 series), Ninku (1993 series), Prince of Tennis (1999 series), D.Gray-man (2004 series), Beshari Gurashi (2005 series), and To Love-Ru (2006 sereis).

It looks like Jump rarely moves their series to other magazine and I don't think most of them move to other magazine due to low ranking (well, some of them I'm not sure). So, I'm not sure if there is any chance that Mago to move different magazine.

 

[saladesu]

So that twitter feed wasn't just a gimmick? (last time I saw it, it only had quotes from shonen manga...) Is there only an English one or is it mirroring a Japanese twitter account as well, does anyone know?

It's Sasaki himself, tweeting in English (he states that his English isn't too great so please bare with him... or something, I can't really recall) So far there is no Japanese version, in fact WSJ has no Japanese twitter at all unlike some other mags like SQ.

 

[Negative Syndicate]

PoT was slumping at that time, and dipped pretty low at certain points.

You can't really tell with TLR's true rankings, since it's now known that Yabuki was barely making the weekly deadlines for printing, and that was a major issue in terms of ToC positioning (if you're late, you'll go near the back of the magazine).

Beshari was similar to TLR in terms of Author's personal issue, except it's sickness as opposed to custody battle. It was moved to YJ as a BiWeekly series.

SBR sort of crashed even in the pre-ch.8/9 ToC, meaning it was THAT bad, before going on hiatus and eventually moving to UJ.

It is true that PoT did move to bottom 5 occasionally, but it still did better than Mago. It kinds of like jumping all over the place.

I'm also agree on To Love-Ru. But I heard that To Love-Ru ranked low because Yabuki submitted the works late. When the authors submit their work late, the editors put them lower position than its actual ranking.

For Beshari Gurashi, it did ranked in bottom 5 for consecutive weeks. But I kind of think Beshari Gurashi actually not for shonen category, it was kind of more like for seinen category. Also, Morita (author of Beshari Gurashi) did comment that he cannot work in weekly pace anymore; he wanted to work in his own pace.

I'm not sure whether SBR got actually ranked when it was serialized in Shonen Jump. When Araki started SBR in Shonen Jump, he was agreed serialize in 10 weeks, then 10 weeks break, then serialized 10 weeks again, then taking break 10 weeks, and so on. Furthermore, each chapter for SBR was serialized in 30 pages per chapter; the average ranking for SBR was in middle. I think Araki moved to Ultra Jump because maybe Jojo is not appeal to younger audience anymore.

 

[Finestela]

It looks like Jump rarely moves their series to other magazine and I don't think most of them move to other magazine due to low ranking (well, some of them I'm not sure). So, I'm not sure if there is any chance that Mago to move different magazine.

Read my reply in the previous page :P

Steel Ball Run crashed before moving to Ultra Jump.

PoT wasn't as bad as Mago right now, but it was hovering near the bottom longer than Reborn at its slump.

DGM/TLR/Beshari are all due to authors can't maintain weekly schedule.

Bastard was just playing HxH, and it's not serialized in UJ anymore, but rather doing straight to Tank.

The rest are too complicated to explain, and too old for a lot of people to even remember/heard of/care.

 

[Negative Syndicate]

Read my reply in the previous page :P

Steel Ball Run crashed before moving to Ultra Jump.

PoT wasn't as bad as Mago right now, but it was hovering near the bottom longer than Reborn at its slump.

DGM/TLR/Beshari are all due to authors can't maintain weekly schedule.

Bastard was just playing HxH, and it's not serialized in UJ anymore, but rather doing straight to Tank.

The rest are too complicated to explain, and too old for a lot of people to even remember/heard of/care.

I looked at SBR's ranking and it didn't crashed that much. Yet, I don't think it actually got ranked (read my previous reply for my reason).

Also, do you think is there any possibiliy that Mago to move to different magazine if it continues to ranked low? I, personally, think there is really low chance.

 

[Finestela]

The difference between Mago and the other bottom series is that its tank sales are pretty decent. Remember, Shaman King was in the bottom for more than half a year before finally ending the way it did, so Mago still has some time to pick itself up.

As for moving else where, no one knows the likelyhood of that happening simply because it must be offered by the other chief editors, not something the author can just request.

 

[perroloco]

IIRC Mago has a second season in the works, right?
As far as I remember I have NEVER seen a JUMP manga being cancelled (not ending) when it has a broadcasting anime, NEVER EVER, if there has been one please say so.

As the titles that have been moved:

Posted by Negative Syndicate:
Also, I found Shonen Jump series that moved to different magazine: Kinnikuman (1979 series), Captain Tsubasa (1981 series), Can Everyday (1983 series), Sekiryuuoh (1986 series), Jojo's Bizarre Adventure (1987 series), Bastard!! (1988 series), Ninku (1993 series), Prince of Tennis (1999 series), D.Gray-man (2004 series), Beshari Gurashi (2005 series), and To Love-Ru (2006 sereis).

Its important to note that out of this the only serials that really changed magazines were Bastard!!, D. Gray-Man and Beshari Gurashi, the other mangas have had reboots or a spin-off, what I mean is the author either took a break, the serial had already ended and it was then continued in another magazine, heck, the list will be incredibly bigger if we were to consider all the spin-offs or returns mangas have had, i.e. Saint Seiya and all its continuations and spinoffs, even Ring Ni Kakeru had Ring Ni Kakeru 2 in Young JUMP IIRC.

Actually, scratch my last post, did Ninku ended serialization while having an anime on TV? Now, that's weird, I have always been interested in Ninku since it was on J!US, along with Buso Renkin was a very short manga having an anime series ending abruptly, but IIRC BR had its anime after it ended.. Has anyone read NINKU? Why could it have end? Too gore for 90s JUMP? IMO it seems like a childish title, but ONE PIECE seems childish too LOL, maybe NINKU was darker than it seems?

 

[Divinenega]

IIRC Mago has a second season in the works, right?
As far as I remember I have NEVER seen a JUMP manga being cancelled (not ending) when it has a broadcasting anime, NEVER EVER, if there has been one please say so.

As the titles that have been moved:



Its important to note that out of this the only serials that really changed magazines were Bastard!!, D. Gray-Man and Beshari Gurashi, the other mangas have had reboots or a spin-off, what I mean is the author either took a break, the serial had already ended and it was then continued in another magazine, heck, the list will be incredibly bigger if we were to consider all the spin-offs or returns mangas have had, i.e. Saint Seiya and all its continuations and spinoffs, even Ring Ni Kakeru had Ring Ni Kakeru 2 in Young JUMP IIRC.

Actually, scratch my last post, did Ninku ended serialization while having an anime on TV? Now, that's weird, I have always been interested in Ninku since it was on J!US, along with Buso Renkin was a very short manga having an anime series ending abruptly, but IIRC BR had its anime after it ended.. Has anyone read NINKU? Why could it have end? Too gore for 90s JUMP? IMO it seems like a childish title, but ONE PIECE seems childish too LOL, maybe NINKU was darker than it seems?

Someone correct me if I;m wrong but didn;t that happen to Shaman King, and was the reason for the anime's different ending?

 

[susanoo13]

The anime of shaman king started airing around the middle 2001, whole the manga started a little before end 1998 if I'm not mistaken, the diversion to non cannonical material was around when the manga was at 180 chapters +- yet the cancellation of the manga happened in middle 2004 at 285 chapters or so being replaced by probably DGM which means the diversion of the anime was simply since it could not maintain the status of an ongoing series due to not being successful enough of because around that time Naruto was green lit for anime and started being animated in oct. 2002 and take it's position as an ongoing.

The thing that I don't understand though is how come Black Cat took 4.5 years since serialization to be animated insted of the usual 2.5-3 years when from what I've heard it was amazingly popular and sold 500k per volume which even Reborn couldn't get to in Oricon (although in half a year top-50 Reborn gets 550-650k)

 

[kewl0210]

Toriko is still growing. It's being promoted now, having had consistently high sales for a manga. It's only after series have had an anime and had big franchises that they get "super popular" and sell 500K+ copies of the volumes, even if the story isn't as good anymore.

Once a manga gets popular enough that Jump wants to support it, they start to franchise it. Besides anime, they make video games, figures, toys, and tons of other stuff. It's then that even if you don't read Jump, you may start to know what the series is. Quite a lot young people in Japan know who Luffy and Naruto are because of how big they are as a franchise. That sort of thing draws in more sales.

And that's why Gintama will never e one of Jump's biggest sellers because it'll never have a fighting game.

And I've said before, "Big three" is a really bad stupid 4chan term. The series have popularities in different ways in Jump and mangas like Toriko, Reborn, Gintama, and Bakuman sell really well, too and all have long animes.

 

[Finestela]

Ninku just went poof back when it was really popular... As matter of fact, if Ninku had continued, it could've give Naruto a run for its money.

I was surprised when it restarted in UJ 10 years after it ended. That was really strange, in my opinion.

Saint Saiya's spinoff's are all published by different publishers, and it was waaaaay too long after the original series had ended.

Nube's spin-off Izuna isn't really that much connected to the original story, and the author made a huge effort in the series to inform the readers about this.

Captain Tsubasa's spawns are direct continuations of the original, but it ended "normally" (or, rather, canceled) in WSJ, and didn't restart until nearly 4 years later. The author also had a go with a failed series in between.

Junbor was canceled in WSJ, and the new series in UJ is just loosely based on the original (300 years later I think?)

Chiyuuki was canceled, but as a cult-hit, and it got a spin-off in BJ that doesn't really have that much to do with the original (lol). Oh, and it was 17 years after it ended.

Ring ni Kakeru 2 was in Super Jump, and it can't really be counted as a direct port either, since it was 19 years after the first Ring ni Kakeru ended.

The list could go on...

But like I said, strictly speaking, the direct transfers are just those we've talked about, like SBR, PoT, DGM, TLR, and Beshari. DGM, TLR, and Beshari are all due to authors not being able to maintain weekly schedule (injury/sickness for Hoshino and Morita, marital problem with Yabuki) while SBR and PoT were both slumping (sort of) in WSJ.

As for the argument that SBR wasn't ranked... If it wasn't ranked, and the actual feedback was good/decent, Araki can simply keep drawing like Akimoto instead of doing that weeks on and off deal.

 

[Negative Syndicate]

As for the argument that SBR wasn't ranked... If it wasn't ranked, and the actual feedback was good/decent, Araki can simply keep drawing like Akimoto instead of doing that weeks on and off deal.

I remeber Araki said he got lots of stress on working weekly magazine, but not because of work pressure. Araki said 19 pages per chapter is too short and he experienced many stress on finishing the chapter within 19 pages. Araki preferred to put more pages in each chapter; I think that's why SBR was released in 31 pages while in WSJ, then moved monthly.

 

[Finestela]

Toriko is still growing. It's being promoted now, having had consistently high sales for a manga. It's only after series have had an anime and had big franchises that they get "super popular" and sell 500K+ copies of the volumes, even if the story isn't as good anymore.

I'm sorry, but Toriko is most definitely not growing much at all any more, not even after insane pimping these past few months by WSJ.

Toriko Vol. 12 sold 200k on Oricon chart after 12 days
Toriko Vol. 13 sold 180k on Oricon chart after 10 days
Toriko Vol. 14 sold 175k on Oricon chart after 7 days

That growth, if any, is just insignificantly small.

And if you look at in-house competition, Toriko Vol.13 lost to TLRD Vol.01 for the first ranking even though it had plenty of first print copies while TLRD is out of stock everywhere. Toriko Vol.14 beats AoEx Vol.06 by only 35k despite being the more established series and had much more exposure for its anime.

 

[kewl0210]

Steel Ball Run I think was partially moved to a monthly magazine so the author had more time to work on it to get his art right on top of the "number of pages thing".
Finestela, those aren't exactly the best figures. If you're trying to make a "number of copies per day of the first two weeks" change comparison then I dunno how much a difference there's been, but in total number of sales it's been going up. Also the last two volumes came out within 4 weeks of each other so you can't expect there to be much difference.

Though, if you DO want to make that comparison, then let's make it.
V12, 200K/12 days = 16.67K per day.
V13 180K/10 days = 18K per day.
V14 175K/7 days = 25K per day.
So, certainly going up. But it's the "total" sales that count not "how many it can sell within two weeks" because as you've demonstrated, how much it sells in a specific amount of time isn't clear because the records don't come out at the same amount of time after the books go on sale. V14 probably won't overall sell 1.4 times V13, it's just it sells more in the first few days. But overall after being on the Oricon charts a few weeks sales have generally gone up each volume after the movie and anime stuff's been happening.

Plus the anime's only just started. Like I said, it's about how well known it gets and if people see it as popular. It doesn't happen over night. (Also, To Love Ru's been going for like 5 years longer than Toriko and has had tons of animes and OVAs, of course it'd do well.)