Geneiryodan Vs Meruem

[pirateninjahunter]

Who do you guys do you think would win in a battle between the King and the entire Geneiryodan?

Let's assume that Lucifer will be fighting as well!

 

[Netero]

Ah crap this is very hard to call... I want to say Meruem because he's basically on par with some DBZ SSJ level characters but... vs all the Geneiryodan I just don't know!!

 

[Host Samurai]

Meruem would instant kill the weaker ones like Kurotopi for instance. And afterwards he would feast on them because he considers them as rare food, gaining extra Nen abilities and adding their Nen to his own. This fight wouldn't be funny because he would never run out of power (Nen) he is basically a ever rechargeable battery. To make it clear.

 

[Netero]

I'm just going to pick Meruem. Like Host samurai said he would just kill and feed off the weaker members easily. Then go Rage beam, use instant transmission ah what ever the hell he want's to kill off the stronger members like Phinks, Feitan, Kuroro, etc

 

[pirateninjahunter]

I believe that Geneiryodan can win. They might be able to trick the king, because they are also smart. And also Lucifer is very, very, very strong! He might be one of the top 5 nen users today, imo. He has way too many abilities, and probably there are some abilities that would help defeating the king.

And when you say that the king will kill some of them right away, I don't think that would necessarily happen. If Geneiryodan expects the King to attack right away, they will be prepared for it. Abilities in HxH are very useful! I don't think the King would be able to tank his way through all of Geneiryodan's abilities. One example is the fact that the King was not able to kill Knuckle's mascot.

 

[Host Samurai]

I believe that Geneiryodan can win. They might be able to trick the king, because they are also smart. And also Lucifer is very, very, very strong! He might be one of the top 5 nen users today, imo. He has way too many abilities, and probably there are some abilities that would help defeating the king.

And when you say that the king will kill some of them right away, I don't think that would necessarily happen. If Geneiryodan expects the King to attack right away, they will be prepared for it. Abilities in HxH are very useful! I don't think the King would be able to tank his way through all of Geneiryodan's abilities. One example is the fact that the King was not able to kill Knuckle's mascot.

I have to disagree with you. Lucifer is a strong one but he is not that strong comparing him to the likes like Netero, Zeno, the Royal guards and especially the King. And because he has many abilities doesn't necessarly mean that one might have the advantage. IIRC his abilitiy backfired when he was fighting Silva and Zeno due to Zeno outsmarting him. And on a sidenote Lucifer has a lot of condition/ or in this case restriction, which he must keep in mind. (I don't want to go in details as to what the conditions are, at least not in this thread) Since Meruem is also portrayed as a highly intelligent being I think he would also see through him. He already did such a thing, when he fought Netero.

Well, the thing is that his speed is beyond anything that we have seen so far in the manga. He traveled a huge distance in a small amount of time, when he used his En for the first time and captured Meloreon and Knuckle in a flash!!! This says a lot about his speed and I personally doubt that anyone of the Ryodan would be able to react. That was a really bad example because Potclean can't be destroyed by anything.

 

[chikkychappy]

^kuroro is around zeno's level. read york shin. kuroro asks zeno who will win between them in a fight, zeno said "of course i will. but it will be a different story if you were tying to kill me."

in any case, meruem would rape, sadly. the ryodan might have 40% chance with the old mereum, but not against this regenerated, overpowered new one

 

[BurnSchulz]

If by any chance Feitan survives the Kings attack, but is also near death, Feitans Ability will be at full power...

Because as from what we´ve seen in the battle against the Reptile Queen, we could assume that to use his ability to the fulest he has to get damage, and the more damage he takes the more powerfull will his attack be.


... i guess my grammar will kill me at this post...

 

[NoFreakingWay]

^kuroro is around zeno's level. read york shin. kuroro asks zeno who will win between them in a fight, zeno said "of course i will. but it will be a different story if you were tying to kill me."

in any case, meruem would rape, sadly. the ryodan might have 40% chance with the old mereum, but not against this regenerated, overpowered new one

Of course we could just interpret this as the old "Grandpa Humility" effect. We've seen this with Netero, who lowered himself to Novu and Morau's level. When it's clearly not the case. My opinion on Kuroro's strength is that he's below Zeno but he's somewhat near, only because of the mysterious contents of his Skill Hunter.

Kuroro - Skill Hunter + the skills inside it
Feitan - Pain Packer
Uvo (yes I'm gonna include him) - Big Bang Impact
Franklin - Double Machine Gun
Phinks - Ripper Cyclotron
Bonorenolf - Le Batte Cantabile
Shizuku - Demechan
Shalnark - Black Voice
Nobunaga - unnamed En "instant" reaction attack
Pakunoda - Memory Bullets
Kurotopi - Right Hand of Devil, Left Hand of God
Karuto - The paper manipulation technique

VS.

Meryem 2 (the current Meryem)

Doesn't look good for the Ryodan.

To damage Meryem one must surpass the damage input of Hyakushiki Zero multiple times.

Of all the Hatsus from the Ryodan we've seen so far, maybe Ripper Cyclotron would do the trick, only if it give Phinks infinite power after infinite swings. But that's unlikely. Phinks might die immediately before he gets an arm swing off (Kamehameha in the face?).

If Indoor Fish ignores all defense then Meryem is in trouble. Then again, it's too easy for Meryem to just whiz past that and get to Kuroro's neck. Of course, there might be a lot of other deadly Hatsus Kuroro might have in his book, but I won't count on them for now.

Or, of course, Kurotopi can cheat and copy tons of freaking Roses.

There's also the issue of speed. How do you heck do you handle something like Instant Transmission? Who in the Ryodan can handle that? Speculation aside, nobody. Because Kuroro couldn't even get past Zeno, and Feitan couldn't even completely avoid damage with his speed in his fight against Zazan.

We all know what Meryem is capable of, damage-wise. He can OHKO decently-leveled beings like Knuckle and blasts mountains with ease.

So I can understand why Togashi didn't have the entire Ryodan (with a possibly rehabilitated Kuroro) fight Meryem 2. Because he doesn't want them to die and give them more appearances in the future for the fanboys and girls. But yeah, I forgot about plot armor for a second, so...

Doesn't look good for the Ryodan at all.

 

[Kiba]

Genei Ryodan would win
the king is not immortal hes beat able
just think about the abilitys of the ryodan they are alone already extrem strong
combinated no chance

i hate when people misunderestimate the ryodan they are powerfull

 

[kkck]

I think there is a very real possibility that the king actually moves faster than what the ryodan can react. I mean, the king can move around 1 km at least in one second or less from what we have seen which is quite insane. The ryodan are all extremely high level fighters but if the king has that kind of speed then they have trouble.

Ubo would not be able to do a thing. His attacks can be countered with sheer amounts of nen IMO.
Feitan could perhaps pull something due to him having many abilities apparently but going as far as winning? I doubt it....
Franklin: Similar scenario to uvo. He wouldn't get past the kings nen defenses.
Phinx: An infinite number of spins would perhaps work but at a great cost... I doubt he would get a number nearly high enough before the king basically blits him.
Shizuku: Her ability is probably one of the more unusuals, rare and deep in the ryodan but I have my doubts about what she could do. I doubt she would get past the kings defenses.
Nobunaga: I doubt he is nearly as fast as the king. Maybe his reinforced sword can get past the kings defenses but other than that I think he would go through the same as the rest.

The problem with the king is not the sheer amount of nen he has. He is an infinitely tactical fighter, he applies every bit of his intellect to his fights. Its not an easy enemy to fight at all to say the least....

 

[Host Samurai]

Genei Ryodan would win
the king is not immortal hes beat able
just think about the abilitys of the ryodan they are alone already extrem strong
combinated no chance

i hate when people misunderestimate the ryodan they are powerfull

We don't underestimate the Ryodan, we are simply stating the facts of the manga. Meruem and his Royal Guards set the Nen level (amount of Nen) bar even higher!!! Meruem alone would wipe the floor with the Ryodan on any day of the week because Togashi himself displayed him like that. He is the sole being, who is the sole exception of how the amount of Nen alone isn't a guarantee for a win. Here is a reminder.

 

[kkck]

The ryodan are indeed extremely powerful but only to human standards. Mereum has everything a fighter needs, he is a perfect fighter. He has superior intellect, he is a supremely tactical fighter. His ability to see past his enemy's tactics is so overwhelming he could even predict taking netero's arms hundreds of thousands of attacks before doing it. Not a single human alive could ever hope to match his tactical prowess in battle. He has uncanny amounts of nen. Even before he absorbed the royal guard he most likely had more nen than all the ryodan combined. Now he has the combined nen of ten ryodans lol (ok, maybe not THAT much but you get my point). Then we go for nen abilities. He acquired pufu's abilities, took them a step further, and he also has yupi's techniques which should be overwhelmingly powerful with his sheer amount of nen. The fact is that the manga has portrayed the king as a perfect fighter at least, beyond human standards (lets also consider the togashi intends to kill the king with poison, not through combat).

 

[chikkychappy]

Of course we could just interpret this as the old "Grandpa Humility" effect. We've seen this with Netero, who lowered himself to Novu and Morau's level. When it's clearly not the case. My opinion on Kuroro's strength is that he's below Zeno but he's somewhat near, only because of the mysterious contents of his Skill Hunter.

there's no indication that zeno was being "humble." in netero's case novu and morau said it themselves. not with zeno.

kuroro>=zeno

 

[NoFreakingWay]

there's no indication that zeno was being "humble." in netero's case novu and morau said it themselves. not with zeno.

kuroro>=zeno

As I've said in the post, Kuroro couldn't even get past Zeno. Kuroro couldn't really find a way to just go there and steal Zeno's ability. Yes I know Silva is there annoying the heck out of Kuroro. But assuming he already has a chock-full of defensive and evasive Nen-abiities in his book it's surprising he couldn't come up with something better than Owl's giant handkerchief. Assuming he didn't have enough exotic abilties to defend and attack with, it still doesn't clear Kuroro out of his shortcoming. He's just still too young and inexperienced in comparison to Zeno. Why? Just take a look back at the scenes. Zeno was in Kuroro's face at some point. He could've surprised the old man by sacrificing some of his defense for trapping him with the hanky. Because we know the hanky shrinks people regardless of nen amount right? Right. That happened to Nobunaga, and hands down Nobunaga is stronger than Owl. Why couldn't Kuroro do it then?

Kuroro was too slow to have responded to both the flare of Silva's aura and Zeno's Dragon Head. And I don't recall Dragon's Head being that extremely fast at all.

http://www.mangareader.net/207-14108-7/hunter-x-hunter/chapter-99.html

Besides, Kuroro couldn't get a hit in on Zeno. In that instance he was tied up Kuroro had one more hand free, because Zeno was holding Kuroro's leg and just pelted him with punches:

http://www.mangareader.net/207-14108-8/hunter-x-hunter/chapter-99.html

If Kuroro was indeed better than Zeno he could've countered Zeno's one hand flurry, but he couldn't. Because he put himself in such a dumb position (he got caught in Dragon Head, which wasn't that fast-moving).

Now I know that Kuroro is supposed to be physically and defensively weak because he's from Specialization and Zeno's from Transformation (if you didn't get this, it's because Specialization is the farthest from Reinforcement and Transformation is just beside Specialization). But if he indeed is better he had to have some things that would compensate for that. The skills that he stole didn't do much for him in the battle (was only able to utilize one stolen Hatsu which gave away his plan and characteristics of his own Hatsu), and it showed a glaring weakness because he doesn't probably have an original Hatsu for situations like that, except...

Remember how Kuroro teleported Nobunaga away from Hisoka? People say it's a stolen Hatsu.

So why didn't he use it in this battle?

That just shows Kuroro just didn't have quick enough thinking to be better than Zeno. He had mental missteps with stolen Hatsu usage and that cost him the fight. If he just strategically used the giant hanky and the teleportation ability he could have freaking won. But he just didn't think quick enough.

I can give credit Kuroro for facing the former and current of the Zoldick assassin family franchise, but the encounter really didn't make him any better than Zeno at all. He had some pretty bad decisions in that and Zeno pounced on them all (of course, as well as Silva, but's he more of a bait, annoyer and finisher than the aggressor in the battle).

And this?

http://www.mangareader.net/207-14109-12/hunter-x-hunter/chapter-100.html

Judging Zeno's talkativeness at times he could have just trash-talked his way into Kuroro's brain to give him nightmares. So he was still restraining himself. He's "humble" at that point. About Zeno's quote "If you had decided to fight with all of your strength, it would be a different story", that most likely means "you'll get hurt more than you are right now, but shyeah that would mean we'd hurt ourselves in the process as well", because that's what exactly happened in this fight, although in an obviously lesser note. For that quote to mean "yeah you would have won if you used all your strength" doesn't make sense because statements before ("Pff, Me, of course") and after ("You really thought didn't understand your game?") imply Kuroro was already lesser than Zeno. So Zeno could only mean "yeah you'll just get whopped harder but I'll also get hurt in the process though". And Zeno sure doesn't want to get hurt or die. That's how it is a "different story".

 

[pirateninjahunter]

OK, people believe that the King is perfect and that he has beyond human intellect. But still he is not able to beat Komugi... That goes to say that the same way there is a human better than him at a game, there might be others with a higher fight IQ.

I don't think any of the posters here are wrong, each one of you could be right. A fight between Geneiryodan and the King in my opinion could go either way. There are so many ways the abilities of Geneiryodan can be used together to create some amazing combos!

We know that Kuroro is a genius. At such a young age he battled the zodiac head and Silva together. I'm not saying the Zoldiac went full power, but still, Kuroro made it competitive. For instance, he is able to predict the future, that would help a lot against Meruem.

Right now I can't think about a combo they could use to defeat Meruem. But they don't need to kill the king to win, they can just suck him with Kuroro's or shisuku's ability. Once locked inside he won't be able to get out. Once inside the vacuum or inside kuroro's hanky, they can drop rose's inside it to kill the King. Or even better, once inside, they can throw something inside the vacuum cleaner, so that the King get's weaker, and then they put him outside and Kuroro can try to copy the king's ability. But of course, it would be very difficult to get the king inside.

 

[Hamy]

OK, people believe that the King is perfect and that he has beyond human intellect. But still he is not able to beat Komugi... That goes to say that the same way there is a human better than him at a game, there might be others with a higher fight IQ.

I don't think any of the posters here are wrong, each one of you could be right. A fight between Geneiryodan and the King in my opinion could go either way. There are so many ways the abilities of Geneiryodan can be used together to create some amazing combos!

We know that Kuroro is a genius. At such a young age he battled the zodiac head and Silva together. I'm not saying the Zoldiac went full power, but still, Kuroro made it competitive. For instance, he is able to predict the future, that would help a lot against Meruem.

Right now I can't think about a combo they could use to defeat Meruem. But they don't need to kill the king to win, they can just suck him with Kuroro's or shisuku's ability. Once locked inside he won't be able to get out. Once inside the vacuum or inside kuroro's hanky, they can drop rose's inside it to kill the King. Or even better, once inside, they can throw something inside the vacuum cleaner, so that the King get's weaker, and then they put him outside and Kuroro can try to copy the king's ability. But of course, it would be very difficult to get the king inside.

You seem to be insistent on getting the Ryodan to win despite not fully understanding certain crucial points, fact that you suggest Shizuku's Deme-chan as being able to suck the king in reflects this since we all know what Shizuku's conditions are with Deme-chan which the King clearly does not fit. Also your scenario is NOT how Deme-chan works, it is NOT a battle oriented ability and your speculation fails to consider the limitations which exactly prevent such a scenario from occurring.

Secondly, how can Kururo copy or steal the King's ability when clearly AGAIN conditions would not be met since he's using purely brute strength - he has no specific techniques that particularly stand out just his biological physique - moreover King wouldn't exactly spill the beans so easily and in terms of speed tier there would be difficulty restraining him much less capture him for skill hunter to activate.

Finally, you seem to be underestimating the most crucial aspect of the King that you keep insisting to be the Ryodan's advantage namely intelligence. Unfortunately, as many have pointed out the King is VERY intelligent and quite tactical himself as a result of his constant battles with Komugi. Just because he could not beat Komugi doesn't mean he's any weaker since he took his losses and LEARNED from them, and he lost to the best possible person to teach him about battle tactics. He's basically been refined in his intellect, tactics, and battle experience thanks to his continuous shougi matches, which says a lot about the respect Togashi gives shougi. Add that with his naturally high physical abilities (especially speed) and vast amounts of nen, along with his way of replenishing it, the King would wipe the ants out. We just need to look at Netero who would clearly be an equivalent for many of the Ryodan already and we saw one very crucial thing which is that Netero could NOT dent the King, assuming Netero's damage would be on par with Ubo that would not bode well for the battle since they couldn't pierce through his defense.

Plain and simple the King is hands down the strongest creature HOWEVER that is why we have the twist with poison, doesn't make him any lower on the hierarchy nor does it feel like such a cheating way to kill him since now the challenge is still staying alive till he dies.

 

[pirateninjahunter]

You seem to be insistent on getting the Ryodan to win despite not fully understanding certain crucial points, fact that you suggest Shizuku's Deme-chan as being able to suck the king in reflects this since we all know what Shizuku's conditions are with Deme-chan which the King clearly does not fit. Also your scenario is NOT how Deme-chan works, it is NOT a battle oriented ability and your speculation fails to consider the limitations which exactly prevent such a scenario from occurring.

Secondly, how can Kururo copy or steal the King's ability when clearly AGAIN conditions would not be met since he's using purely brute strength - he has no specific techniques that particularly stand out just his biological physique - moreover King wouldn't exactly spill the beans so easily and in terms of speed tier there would be difficulty restraining him much less capture him for skill hunter to activate.

Finally, you seem to be underestimating the most crucial aspect of the King that you keep insisting to be the Ryodan's advantage namely intelligence. Unfortunately, as many have pointed out the King is VERY intelligent and quite tactical himself as a result of his constant battles with Komugi. Just because he could not beat Komugi doesn't mean he's any weaker since he took his losses and LEARNED from them, and he lost to the best possible person to teach him about battle tactics. He's basically been refined in his intellect, tactics, and battle experience thanks to his continuous shougi matches, which says a lot about the respect Togashi gives shougi. Add that with his naturally high physical abilities (especially speed) and vast amounts of nen, along with his way of replenishing it, the King would wipe the ants out. We just need to look at Netero who would clearly be an equivalent for many of the Ryodan already and we saw one very crucial thing which is that Netero could NOT dent the King, assuming Netero's damage would be on par with Ubo that would not bode well for the battle since they couldn't pierce through his defense.

Plain and simple the King is hands down the strongest creature HOWEVER that is why we have the twist with poison, doesn't make him any lower on the hierarchy nor does it feel like such a cheating way to kill him since now the challenge is still staying alive till he dies.

So, are you trying to say that it is impossible for Geneiryodan to win?
The King is not perfect, e.g. he loses to Komugi in shougi.
It is possible to beat him.
What I am understanding is the following:
YOU: it is impossible for Geneiryodan to beat the King.
ME: is is possible for Geneiryodan to beat the King. I am not saying they always win, but it is possible. Maybe not even probable, but still possible.

What I like about HxH is that nen volume is not everything, the way you use your nen abilities is what matters the most. Even if Meruem could tank through many nen abilities, I am pretty sure that there exist some nen abilities that match up well against Meruem.

I know there are conditions to be met for Kuroro's ability to work. I just didn't write them here, I know it would be difficult for the conditions to be met. I know. And the King does have one ability, it is the ability to acquire nen abilities by eating nen users.

Don't worry, I see your arguments as to why it would be difficult for Geneiryodan to win. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Hamy]

So, are you trying to say that it is impossible for Geneiryodan to win?
The King is not perfect, e.g. he loses to Komugi in shougi.
It is possible to beat him.
What I am understanding is the following:
YOU: it is impossible for Geneiryodan to beat the King.
ME: is is possible for Geneiryodan to beat the King. I am not saying they always win, but it is possible. Maybe not even probable, but still possible.

What I like about HxH is that nen volume is not everything, the way you use your nen abilities is what matters the most. Even if Meruem could tank through many nen abilities, I am pretty sure that there exist some nen abilities that match up well against Meruem.

I know there are conditions to be met for Kuroro's ability to work. I just didn't write them here, I know it would be difficult for the conditions to be met. I know. And the King does have one ability, it is the ability to acquire nen abilities by eating nen users.

Don't worry, I see your arguments as to why it would be difficult for Geneiryodan to win. Thanks for the reply.

Here is the problem with you and Komugi she only beats him in ONE aspect, he beats her in every other way no question about it. The King unfortunately is FAR from being as specialized as Komugi so that he certainly has MANY other aspects which he surpasses his foes, and unfortunately because of his multi-faceted nature he's able to incorporate that quite well in a battle to win. Thing is you shouldn't consider hierarchy by a loss - remember Kuroro was outwitted by Hisoka by your logic that would mean Hisoka > Kuroro.

You also have to consider you've never mentioned how it would take a rose bomb point blank to beat the King, which is where Komugi can come in again as you notice in BOTH instance human intellect triumphs not brute strength. In other words THERE IS a possibility to defeat the King assuming the Ryodan - which shouldn't be that impossible - procures a Rose bomb and manages to detonate it in close range to the King which would easily end up killing him. However, the difficulty would be in LURING the King alone, he had reason to face Netero as he wanted something but in this situation of a hypothetical match up there is nothing the Ryodan could offer. Kuroro COULD devise a trap with the Rose, and with Shalnark to help it would be great help here. However, because the King has developed an ability to see through lies lets just say that should add a new difficulty in trapping him.

However, in facing the King off in a battle royale as the discussions have so far been geared towards clearly the King is at an overwhelming advantage to easily kill them, just by the fact that they cannot dent him. You also fail to realize why Skill Hunter would be useless since the King would not speak of his "ability" - if you consider devouring to be his nen ability which I sincerely doubt it to be but rather attribute as a natural mechanism as we've seen with the Queen giving birth to ants with nen abilities after devouring people with nen. Moreover, the King only releases a godly amount of Nen aura that surrounds him which amps up his offense - his nen abilities are so far the ones he has gained from his Royal Guards but they are more of a mix of a nen ability/physical enhancement. Simply put the King has no pure hatsu technique for Kuroro to exploit so as to steal and seal his nen, hence Skill hunter would be useless other than providing possible skills to help him stay alive.

Edit: Also given what we've seen with the Ryodan so far it is possible that there are members who cannot fight all out when they are in a group. Feitan is a case in point remember how his ability is indiscriminate hence it would damage his allies. Ubo and Nobu would be an issue for a long range fighter like Franklin who would not need obstacles in his way as he fires his bullets. The list can go on but point is you seem to be thinking that because they are a group it would be possible for them to fight with teamwork. Their style so far as shown is to split up individually - rarely do they work in a duo - and try to keep out of each others way.

 

[kkck]

Obviously it is plausible for someone to be better than the king at something very specific but that does not mean every skilled person around could have something he is better than the king.

Based on what we know and the many aspects that a fight can take, where is the king inferior to the ryodan? Lets consider the many factors a fight involves.

nen amount:

In general the least important aspect. Even then, we have every reason to believe the king has more nen than the ryodan combined. Nen amount can be directly correlated to your basic attack and defense though and in this regard we have every reason to believe is insanely stronger than the ryodan. his nen amount can also be correlated to his speed. Knuckle is an insanely skilled hunter, perhaps even capable of matching a ryodan fighting member, and he still did not even react to the kings speed.

Resistance to damage:

Before getting the power of the royal guard he was strong enough to quite literally take a nuke and survive. Now he is much stronger than that. Is there one among the ryodan members that can even come close to a nuke? I honestly doubt it.

Intellect:
I already wrote about this. The king is a supremely tactical fighter on top of being impossibly fast, impossibly strong and impossibly resistant to damage.

Fighting abilities:
The king just got every ability that yupi and pufu had and took them a step further. He can shot kamehamehas and blow up a mountain effortlessly. His en is so wide it is impossible to hide from him in a fight. he can fly meaning he has instant highground advantage in any fight.

Phinx and franklins abilities can be tanked with greater amounts of nen since they are pretty straighforward. Anyways, if netero's hundreds of thousands of attacks barely put a scratch on the king I doubt any of these two has a chance. From feitan we have only seen one ability which involves an armor and a sun like thingy.If a nuke did not kill the king then this would not even warm him up.

Shalnark is a manipulation type which means he actually has a shot at controlling the king if he manages to put his anthena in place. Problem? Putting the anthena in place should be pretty close to impossible given the sheer physical capacities of the king. Using the anthena on himself would be stupid, there is no way it can bring him even remotely close to the king.

The mommy guy would be interesting although he is most likely outclassed in every physical aspect to begin with. I doubt his meteor would even begin to put a scratch on the king either.

Kuroro is the one with the actual chance of doing anything since he does have many abilities although he still has the need to react to the kings movements. It is extremely likely he also cannot react to the kings movements.

The king is being killed by poison for a reason, he is simply too strong, too fast, too smart as a fighter....