Fall NFL Thread

[xi0]

Re: The NFL Thread

I think the difference between the franchises is the level of success. The other factor is the whole "America's Team" nonsense. It also helps that Jerry Jones likes the sound of his own voice so much.

 

[Kaiten]

Re: The NFL Thread

Cowboys are on the same tier as the Steelers and Packers in terms of success. Those three, along with the Raiders (before they spent the last decade crapping their pants) have always been the NFL's glamor franchises.

Pretty crazy news about the Saints bounty program. Looks like Sean Payton was not directly involved though he failed to take proper steps once informed of the allegations. Gregg Williams seems to be the main culprit. Owner Tom Benson ordered GM Micky Loomis to intervene but Loomis failed to do so. Could be some pretty stiff penalties coming New Orleans way.

 

[xi0]

Re: The NFL Thread

Yeah, I thought I heard something on TV about it in passing. I don't know enough about it yet.

I always thought Payton was sort of a smarmy ass anyways...

 

[Kaiten]

Re: The NFL Thread

I've always liked Payton, one of the better head coaches in the league. Certainly one of the best offensive head coaches. From everything I have read he is not implicated to deeply in the scandal. His name does not seem to come up much. The NFL is likely to make an example out of the Saints anyway so his role hardly matters.

Looks like the Rams are going to move the second pick by the end of the week, before the start of free agency. It seems the Browns are unwilling to trade both first round picks to move up, as of right now. I'm not sure if that is a negotiating ploy or they do not value Griffin enough to trade two first round picks in one draft. The Redskins thus far are not willing to give up this years second round pick, in addition to next years first. That most likely is a negotiating ploy, I assume if that is what it takes to close the deal they will trade the pick. From what I have read that actually could be enough to close the deal anyway.

 

[xi0]

Re: The NFL Thread

I think someone trading back prior to draft day, never mind the fact that it isn't the first overall pick, might be unprecedented.

 

[Aazholh]

Re: The NFL Thread

The Cowboys have seen better days I think they need to concentrate on being more cohesive, but I've been thinking that for about 10 years now.

 

[xi0]

Re: The NFL Thread

The Cowboys need consistent defensive play, particularly in the secondary. Wouldn't hurt if they had a better Offensive line either.

 

[Aazholh]

Re: The NFL Thread

The Cowboys need consistent defensive play, particularly in the secondary. Wouldn't hurt if they had a better Offensive line either.

Yeah, I'm on the side that thinks the team needs refining instead of yanking everyone off of it.

 

[xi0]

Re: The NFL Thread

Yeah, I'm on the side that thinks the team needs refining instead of yanking everyone off of it.

The real issue is Jerry Jones, but you can't fire the owner. His refusal to hire someone to head the team in personnel-wise is stupid. But I don't know who would take the job that had any self-respect anyways.

 

[Kaiten]

Re: The NFL Thread

I think someone trading back prior to draft day, never mind the fact that it isn't the first overall pick, might be unprecedented.

As far as I know it is not unprecedented, just highly unusual. This year was a bit of a perfect storm: two elite QB prospects, no QB's worth a top ten pick behind them, three teams in the top five that do not need a quarterback (including the team holding the second pick), Peyton Manning being released, and Matt Flynn becoming available as a free agent. The Rams stood to lose to much leverage if they waited until draft day. By then Peyton and Matt Flynn would have been signed, reducing the number of potential trade partners. It was also advantageous for trade partners to complete the deal early; now the teams unable to consummate a trade for the second pick can move on to plan B. Once news broke that Peyton had already rejected the Redskins their options came down to trading for the second pick, Kyle Orton, or Rex Grossman. After years of mediocre quarterbacks I am overjoyed that they did the right thing, traded what they needed to trade, and moved up to get a potential franchise quarterback. I guarantee that had they not made this trade they would have been in the same position next year, no matter how high or low they drafted.

 

[xi0]

Re: The NFL Thread

Do you think Griffin starts Week 1 though?

 

[Kaiten]

Re: The NFL Thread

I think he is capable of starting right away, yes. I would not be surprised if they targeted a quarterback to compete with him though. A journeymen who could serve as a back up or start if necessary, but is easily expendable when Griffen is ready, would be ideal. I'm thinking of someone like Kyle Orton or another quarterback of that caliber. The Skins have an obscene amount of cap room and could conceivably make a few luxury signings, if they choose too. Shannahan did a masterful job in free agency last year, I would expect some very good moves this year as well.

Griffen is ready to play right now though. He is as polished as Sam Bradford was, coming out of school. The Redskins have a better roster than people think. The offensive line is underrated and decimated by injuries last year. We have good running backs, going three deep if Hightower is resigned. The defense is top ten caliber if everyone stays healthy. Griffen will not get hit much, will have a running game, and a defense that can keep the score close. We need help at receiver, depth in the secondary, and depth on the offensive line. But there should be enough on the roster for Griffen to have a solid rookie year.

 

[xi0]

Re: The NFL Thread

How could you say he did a masterful job in Free Agency considering the results though? So you don't think Beck or Grossman are worthy to compete with him?

 

[Kaiten]

Re: The NFL Thread

Every free agent they signed last year became a key contributor. Josh Wilson, Stephen Bowen, Barry Coefield, Chris Chester all played extremely well for us and all bolstered positions of need. All were starters and all will be back next year. Even if none were pro-bowlers they are all key contributors. Unlike Snyder, Shannahan and Bruce Allen have been using free agency to find role players as well as young players who can come in and contribute. Our defense is essentially rebuilt, we just need a little depth in the secondary. They signed very few offensive free agents last season, they will be targeting that side of the ball this week. I expect more of the same: no superstars but young players who can step in and fill needs. The best free agent signing was in 2010 though. Adam Carriker was a great signing, hopefully he does not hit the open market on Tuesday.

The play of Rex Grossman and John Beck cost us a winning season last year. Grossman lost winnable games with turnovers, intentional grounding penalties, and poor decisions in the red zone. Beck was the worst starting QB in the league during the three games he played. There is no doubt the Redskins would have won eight or nine games at least with competent quarterback play. Grossman is a free agent, if he is resigned it will be as a back up only. He will not be given the chance to compete for the starting position. Beck will likely be released, at best he will be retained as an emergency quarterback.

 

[xi0]

Re: The NFL Thread

I didn't mean the acquisitions weren't good ones, just that the results were what they were. There's more that goes into that obviously.

I think the signing of Vonta Leach was one of the best ones we've had in years. It's kind of strange that a Fullback in today's NFL can have such an impact but man did he ever.

 

[Kaiten]

Re: The NFL Thread

The results weren't there but that does not mean they will not be. The story of the Dan Snyder era has been the quick fix; sign a few high profile, thirty year old pro-bowlers and win now. Snyder has always viewed the team like the Yankees or Lakers, never rebuild only reload. For the first time I can remember the team got down to the business of rebuilding, acquiring players you can build around long term even if it takes a few years to get all the pieces in place. Free agency and the draft in 2011 were handled that way. Every draft pick from our 2011 class made the team. All but a few contributed, even if only as rotation players. The Ravens had a similar philosophy when they first moved to Baltimore. They began laying the groundwork for success almost immediately after moving but success did not follow immediately. The Super Bowl season was also the first season with a winning record in franchise history.

The fullback is a dying position but there are still teams that use them to great success. I remember LT had his best years in San Diego following Lorenzo Neal into the hole. Lawrence Vickers, the former Ravens fullback, is now blocking for Arian Foster.

 

[xi0]

Re: The NFL Thread

I wasn't trying to play-down the good things that might be coming, but anything can happen really.

Lawrence Vickers was a Brown, you're thinking of LeRon McClain, he's in Kansas City. Lawrence Vickers is a good FB, but I wouldn't put him in the league of Neal or Leach.

 

[Jammin]

Re: The NFL Thread

Ah there is a football threat, I did not know that.

I am a die hard Steeler fan. It's sad that Hines Ward's career ended today but I'm glad he retired a Steeler. I just can't imagine him wearing any other uniform than a Steeler's one. Plus it's going to free up a little bit of cap room which the Steelers sorely need, our cap situation is pretty bad.

About the Redskins move for RG3. He's hope and that's something that has been in short supply for Redskins fans for quite a while. And if they can stabilize the quarterback position it's absolutely worth what they paid in my book.

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Also I can't believe the NFL gave both the Redskins and Cowboy's huge cap hits for stuff they did when there was no salary cap. They broke no rules and yet they are getting punished anyway. To the tune of...

Minus $36 million for the Redskins (Albert Haynsworth is costing money even after he's gone)
and
Minus $10 million for the Cowboys

That seems absurd to me.

 

[xi0]

Re: The NFL Thread

Ugh, Steelers fan



It's not absurd. When the owners opted out of the last CBA they knew full well that things that happened in the uncapped year would be consequential to the next capped year under the new CBA. Dan Snyder and Jerry Jones said they didn't give a crap and spent what they wanted. They knew, but that doesn't change the fact that they tried to fight it. All the owners knew this.

 

[Jammin]

Re: The NFL Thread

Ugh, Steelers fan

You know your just jealous of all the trophies.

Though I'd be willing to wager no matter which team your a fan of your not jealous of our horrific offensive line, massive salary cap issues, and the fact that we lost to Tebow in the playoffs last year.

It's not absurd. When the owners opted out of the last CBA they knew full well that things that happened in the uncapped year would be consequential to the next capped year under the new CBA. Dan Snyder and Jerry Jones said they didn't give a crap and spent what they wanted. They knew, but that doesn't change the fact that they tried to fight it. All the owners knew this.

This does not alter that there were no rules prohibiting it. Which is why the NFL is citing them for the extremely vague"interfering with competitive balance". They didn't even throw huge money out there what they did was use the cash to help take the sting out of a bunch of existing bad contracts. By renegotiating to front-load them during the no-salary cap year.

I think it's pretty clear that neither of these teams gained a competitive advantage as both teams have been very average or below over the past 2 seasons. Give them a break!

I mean this is not like spygate where a team is caught breaking a rule to give them an advantage on the field of play, during a period they won a bunch of super-bowls, this is an situation were the NFL is punished teams doing something there was no rule against them doing. If they wanted them not to do it they should have made a specific set of rules for teams to follow during the uncapped year, but they didn't. Verbal warning or not, both teams acted within the rules as they are written.

I don't like it went the NFL runs around fining teams and players whenever they "feel like it".

---------- Post added at 02:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:00 PM ----------

Just read about the Saints punishment too. The NFL dropped the hammer on them really really REALLY hard. Made Belichick and Pats look like they barely got a slap on the wrist for spygate.

I think they got over-punshed to be honest. I mean, what they did was wrong and direct violation the CBA but they didn't handicap the Saint's chances next season; they murdered their chances.