Shounen Kurogane by IKEZAWA Haruto

[Jammin]

Jammin, but if you take out St&rs and Pakky (assuming they're being cancelled) and Kuroko and Mago (as they live on their volume sales, plus Kuroko did just get an anime), Kurogane is the last placed series.

Oh, it's definitely at risk. But they aren't likely to just wipe the slate clean and cancel all those at once. If for no other reason than every series they cancel needs to be replaced by something that they think at least has a chance at doing better.

ST&RS has pretty much inhabited the bottom spot for months now and it hasn't been canned yet. So Kurogane might hold on for a while yet even if it dropped all the way down to the bottom; especially if the editors don't feel they can replace it with something better.

-----------------------------------

The problem with Kurogane is that it really doesn't have much to turn things around with, it's problems are long term. It needs a story beyond compete with random schools in kendo on the way to a national tournament, that's the road to cancellation. If it doesn't make some drastic alterations to the narrative, even if it holds on for 6 months or so, I think it's pretty much doomed.

It isn't just a sports manga with the whole swordmaster ghost thing but that hasn't played much into the story. It's been all fairly conventional sports manga stuff and I don't think that's really worked in it's favor. It's too... causal.

Manga fans are used to reading swordfighting as a life or death thing but in Kurogane it's mainly just pride on the line. Which is one of the reasons I think it wasn't so much the concept as it was the characters that allowed it to reach the top 10 but that can only prop it up so long, unless it starts adapting more of a slice of life approach; but I don't really know how that could work either.

 

[Negative Syndicate]

The problem with Kurogane is that it really doesn't have much to turn things around with, it's problems are long term. It needs a story beyond compete with random schools in kendo on the way to a national tournament, that's the road to cancellation. If it doesn't make some drastic alterations to the narrative, even if it holds on for 6 months or so, I think it's pretty much doomed.

It isn't just a sports manga with the whole swordmaster ghost thing but that hasn't played much into the story. It's been all fairly conventional sports manga stuff and I don't think that's really worked in it's favor. It's too... causal.

Well, that's what a sport manga is all about; the characters practice very hard, fight against rivals from other schools and beat them. All of sport series pretty much stick to this basic structure and I'm not if there are any other directions for Kurogane.

 

[Jammin]

Well, that's what a sport manga is all about; the characters practice very hard, fight against rivals from other schools and beat them. All of sport series pretty much stick to this basic structure and I'm not if there are any other directions for Kurogane.

If it were entirely a sports manga that would be true but it's not. The swordmaster ghost and Hiroto's sight ability make it something of a sword-fighting/sports kendo hybrid. The actual premise was that Kurogane Hiroto was to be trained as the next master of the sakura sword style. The story has just used kendo as the arena for that.

Unfortunately, kendo has not worked as well for that purpose as I think the author hoped.

 

[Negative Syndicate]

If it were entirely a sports manga that would be true but it's not. The swordmaster ghost and Hiroto's sight ability make it something of a sword-fighting/sports kendo hybrid. The actual premise was that Kurogane Hiroto was to be trained as the next master of the sakura sword style. The story has just used kendo as the arena for that.

Unfortunately, kendo has not worked as well for that purpose as I think the author hoped.

It is not only Kurogane to become the next master of the sakura sword style, Sayuri also wants her sword style to be spread around in today's world. In order to spread her sword style, Kurogane has to become number 1 in Japan.

Plus, the author wants this series to become a sport series, not a chanbara action. If the author wants to do chanbara action, then he should do more historical year like in Meiji (same period as Rurouni Kenshin) rather than present days.

Furthermore, Kurogane is still not in the worst position. If Kurogane does stay in bottom 5 for multiple weeks, then it would be in danger. Plus, there is still possibility that Kuragone's ranking may rebounce like Magico. In current state, it is still too early to determin that it'll cancel.

 

[Jammin]

It is not only Kurogane to become the next master of the sakura sword style, Sayuri also wants her sword style to be spread around in today's world. In order to spread her sword style, Kurogane has to become number 1 in Japan.

Plus, the author wants this series to become a sport series, not a chanbara action. If the author wants to do chanbara action, then he should do more historical year like in Meiji (same period as Rurouni Kenshin) rather than present days.

I realize that, but one's talent at sports kendo doesn't necessarily tell you much about their skill as an actual swordsman. And that's a problem the author is going to keep running into.

Kendo is a very structured sport. Which actually holds back the "sword style" element of the story, which is supposed to be the driving force behind the sports side of the story. As long as they stick to the sports kendo rules various sword styles are going to look pretty similar because they are mostly doing the same things even if the approach it in different ways. That's just the nature of sports kendo (similar stances, similar weapons, controlled environment, strict rules of conduct).

I'm honestly not sure what the solution to that issue is, maybe there is no solution and the concept was just too flawed, but as long as the issue is there Kurogane is going to be almost 100% reliant on it's characters to keep it going; as has been the case thus far.

Furthermore, Kurogane is still not in the worst position. If Kurogane does stay in bottom 5 for multiple weeks, then it would be in danger. Plus, there is still possibility that Kuragone's ranking may rebounce like Magico. In current state, it is still too early to determin that it'll cancel.

Nobody has said it's cancelled, just that if things continue like this it's likely to be; and that if I was a betting man that is where I would put my money.

 

[Negative Syndicate]

I realize that, but one's talent at sports kendo doesn't necessarily tell you much about their skill as an actual swordsman. And that's a problem the author is going to keep running into.

Kendo is a very structured sport. Which actually holds back the "sword style" element of the story, which is supposed to be the driving force behind the sports side of the story. As long as they stick to the sports kendo rules various sword styles are going to look pretty similar because they are mostly doing the same things even if the approach it in different ways. That's just the nature of sports kendo (similar stances, similar weapons, controlled environment, strict rules of conduct).

I'm honestly not sure what the solution to that issue is, maybe there is no solution and the concept was just too flawed, but as long as the issue is there Kurogane is going to be almost 100% reliant on it's characters to keep it going; as has been the case thus far.

Kendo is only sports in present day that only use sword (well, not real sword) in present day. There aren't any other sports that use sword-like object; plus, the author wants Kurogane to be a sport series. As I said, if the author really wanted to do chanbara action, then he should have done a historical action series.

Plus, kendo actually have pretty variety of skills that isn't so similar. So, I think the author also can show other kinds of kendo skills, and there going to be more varieties of techniques in future.

Furthemore, the recent rankings are based Aoharu-arc and that arc is actually not very good (I also didn't like it). The ranking for actual competition was actually good, so the ranking may increase when the current arc starts to get ranked.

Nobody has said it's cancelled, just that if things continue like this it's likely to be; and that if I was a betting man that is where I would put my money.

Actually, many people already said that Kurogane will eventually cancelled since it started. I predict the cancellation from the series' ranking and Kurogane was far from being in danger. Even though Kurogane is currently struggling, I was already knowledgable about that since the last arc was pretty boring. But, I honestly still don't see this series will be doomed in future at this point; but, I think Kurogane's fate will be determined on the result of its current arc and the ranking for two new series (Haikyuu!! and Pajama na Kanojo).

 

[FrostyMouse]

This is the most discussion that we've ever had about Kurogane at one time. :P

On a serious note, I thought Kurogane had room to improve from the beginning. Right now, I'm not sure. Aoharu's getting more facetime than anyone except Kurogane, and I'm not a huge fan of that. In the current Freshman Tournament thing, we barely saw anything else. I don't know what's happened recently as we don't have a scan for the last few chapters, and I haven't bothered to look at the raws, but until we get back to the main point, I think that the rankings will continue to suffer.

I feel as if there are really only three characters in this manga: Kurogane, Shidou, and Aoharu. The coach, the captain, the ghost girl, and the idiot girl are all there for a few moments, but they never do anything important. The other fodder members of the Kendo Club might as well not even exist for all of the amount of facetime that they've had since the first few Kendo Club introduction chapters. We've got the #1 guy and the guy who's essentially a copy of Kintarou (PoT/SPoT with his Koshimae bit), but only a worse version, and then really no one else. We'll see some randoms for a few chapters here or there, but then they quickly disappear to never be seen again.

I think that we need to see more of the supernatural side of the series. We're told that he'll eventually learn these things, but the author's done a poor job so far. Teach him some special tech or something; instead, we're told, "Oh, you must learn it on your own, even though you're not a very good Kendoist." We have been shown that supernatural skills really are quite powerful, such as that virtual flash step that Kurogane's body used on Shidou on the roof of the school building, but the series as a whole hasn't even really been slice of life. A lot of the recent chapters have just been basic Kendo training...

 

[Jammin]

Kendo is only sports in present day that only use sword (well, not real sword) in present day. There aren't any other sports that use sword-like object; plus, the author wants Kurogane to be a sport series. As I said, if the author really wanted to do chanbara action, then he should have done a historical action series.

Just because the author wants to do a certain concept doesn't mean it works out. If you want to make a hybrid sports/swordfighting manga, there is no doubt that kendo is the only choice there but that doesn't mean it's a good choice or that it can really work all that well and that's the issue.

I don't want Kurogane to turn into an actions series, I don't think that would work. But right now it's trying to be a purely sports series and that isn't working either.

I'm with Frostymouse on the idea that the best ray of hope is the supernatural side of the story. Diminish the sports kendo realism pretext and just go for broke. (that and find an excuse to make Ebana fade into obscurity, he is just not a good character)

Plus, kendo actually have pretty variety of skills that isn't so similar. So, I think the author also can show other kinds of kendo skills, and there going to be more varieties of techniques in future.

That's just it though they are all techniques in the same style. Sports kendo is designed as a kind of light sparring where everybody uses the same style. Most even use the same stance.

An actual sparring match is nothing like that. In hindsight I think Kurogane would have been better off making up it's own sport which bore a closer resemblance to freestyle kendo sparring rather than sports kendo. Then they could have incorporated the sword styles a lot better, instead of sticking to more conventional side of kendo; which is just not very entertaining....

 

[kidopitz27]

chapter 28 and 29 is released http://www.mangareader.net/kurogane

 

[FrostyMouse]

I was eating lunch, so I missed when they came out. Ah, well.

Chapter 29 makes it seem as if Kurogane has a decent lifespan in front of it, or at the very least, it isn't in any danger of cancellation.

We'll see Kurogane probably win the match somehow, but I mean, he could just stand there. It wouldn't be very honorable to just stand there and take a timeout draw for Ouka's win, but it could definitely happen. To be honest, it seems like one of those stupid pride things that Kurogane's going to attack based on. The opposing Kendoist is willing to just sit there and take the loss.

 

[Estranho]

I was eating lunch, so I missed when they came out. Ah, well.

Chapter 29 makes it seem as if Kurogane has a decent lifespan in front of it, or at the very least, it isn't in any danger of cancellation.

Everytime someone says that, I like to remember that the chapter 21 of Double Arts was named "The Begging", and had a lot of new concepts presented. 2 chapters later, the manga was axed.

 

[FrostyMouse]

Everytime someone says that, I like to remember that the chapter 21 of Double Arts was named "The Begging", and had a lot of new concepts presented. 2 chapters later, the manga was axed.

Well, I meant how the first page of Chapter 29 talks about bonus content. Plus, Kurogane's not in danger of cancellation this session anyway.

 

[Jammin]

These two chapters took a positive direction though. Focusing more on Hiroto and Sayuri is, I think, the direction this series has to go if it wants to regain a bit of what it lost during this last arc.

I like the little bit of romantic tension there between the ancient ghost and high-school boy. Can't say I expected it but that could be something fun going forward.

 

[Darjaille]

And I'm left wondering if the author thinks of presenting somewhat of a romantic relationship between Hiroto and Sayuri O_o That has never come to my mind lol XD
It most probably wasn't hinting at that, but who knows really XDD


I like the story so far even after ~30 chapters, what is good. I kind of became bored of ST&RS after less than twenty, so I won't be sad when it gets cancelled anymore, but I sure hope Kurogane manages to live for a long while.

 

[FrostyMouse]

I thought that we'd see more of Kurogane's friend who's a girl, and she might become actually involved in Kendo, not just as the manager, and we might move in that direction.

Sayuri X Hiroto is a bit odd, but it's not like it's that out of the ordinary as it's been done before, a ghost and a human, I mean.

 

[Negative Syndicate]

I don't think there going to be romantic relationship between Kurogane and Sayuri. I think they going to develop teacher/student and friend relationship between the two like Hikaru and Sai (from Hikaru no Go).

 

[Jammin]

And I'm left wondering if the author thinks of presenting somewhat of a romantic relationship between Hiroto and Sayuri O_o That has never come to my mind lol XD
It most probably wasn't hinting at that, but who knows really XDD

Who knows. The most interesting part of this manga has always been Sayuri IMO. But we have never really been told that much about her. What kind of person was she when she was alive or how old was she when she died.

I just assumed there was a huge age gap between Hiroto and her, like 15 years(when she was alive), but this is manga so you never can be certain. She could have got suddenly embarrassed there because she was a lot younger than that and, as person who lived for swordsmanship, really doesn't have much experience with anything else. Or maybe it was just a completely meaningless scene.

I guess, we'll just have to watch and see if anything like that happens again.

like the story so far even after ~30 chapters, what is good. I kind of became bored of ST&RS after less than twenty, so I won't be sad when it gets cancelled anymore, but I sure hope Kurogane manages to live for a long while.

Something that might play out in it's favor, and maybe give it extra time to find it's creative footing is all the more popular series that are on their way out in Shounen Jump.

Bleach is officially on it's last arc.
Naruto, though there is nothing official, seems to be coming to the end of the road.
Bakuman's story is also getting to point where it could be wrap up, though I don't follow it so that's just hearsay.
Inumaru Dashi has similar rumors floating around it. Which is another series I don't follow, but one that ranks above Kurogane.

By this time next year Shounen Jump could have a lot holes to fill, and it could be a lot easier to raise through the jump rankings than it has been in a long time and as long as Kurogane can manage to keep off the very bottom, it should be worth keeping around just because the Jump Editors will be scrambling to fill so many vacancies already.

I thought that we'd see more of Kurogane's friend who's a girl, and she might become actually involved in Kendo, not just as the manager, and we might move in that direction.

Sayuri X Hiroto is a bit odd, but it's not like it's that out of the ordinary as it's been done before, a ghost and a human, I mean.

The concept isn't new but I don't recall ever seeing one step in as a love interest who was over the highschool age range. That's the part that seems...unusual to me.

I mean, the very thought would have never even occurred to me if Sayuri hadn't pulled what appeared to be a pretty classic Tsundere act.

 

[Negative Syndicate]

Something that might play out in it's favor, and maybe give it extra time to find it's creative footing is all the more popular series that are on their way out in Shounen Jump.

Bleach is officially on it's last arc.
Naruto, though there is nothing official, seems to be coming to the end of the road.
Bakuman's story is also getting to point where it could be wrap up, though I don't follow it so that's just hearsay.
Inumaru Dashi has similar rumors floating around it. Which is another series I don't follow, but one that ranks above Kurogane.

By this time next year Shounen Jump could have a lot holes to fill, and it could be a lot easier to raise through the jump rankings than it has been in a long time and as long as Kurogane can manage to keep off the very bottom, it should be worth keeping around just because the Jump Editors will be scrambling to fill so many vacancies already.

I don't think Naruto and Bleach are good examples because even though they are in final arc, it doesn't mean they will end within few months; they may going to take couple of years to end them.

 

[Jammin]

I don't think Naruto and Bleach are good examples because even though they are in final arc, it doesn't mean they will end within few months; they may going to take couple of years to end them.

We can't really know the time frame either way but it's a safe bet that the Weekly Shounen Jump editorial staff is already trying to figure out what they are going to be replaced with and are taking that into account when it comes to series cancellations/conclusions because for every series that goes out they need to find a new one to replace it with and that isn't as easy as it sounds.

My point being that even if Kurogane would normally fail to make the cut, it might now just because weekly shounen jump's situation lowers the bar a little.

 

[FrostyMouse]

Well, Nisekoi surviving is due to the current circumstances as well to some extent. It can be easier, and more efficient, to keep a series that sells passably for a lower tier series than to try to replace it with another series, which doesn't have any promise of selling or doing any better.

Now, there are series, such as Dois Sol, that probably shouldn't have even been published in the first place, but if a series that bad does get published, usually Jump cans it immediately.