Fun 1999 vs 2011 Versions

[Demonspeed]

HxH is the kinda of manga you reread and are surprised. It's just that awesome.

Maybe short stories but I doubt anything on-going.

Exactly,especially in Ants arc,every time i read it i learn something new.

 

[mrsticky005]

80 chapters in HxH is different from kenshin. Different mangaka characterizing different stories. Furasashi doesn't have an excuse. He came off way to sublte and had no emphasis on anything what so ever. He rarely put any meaning into the story. If the 2011 anime were to adapt the manga fully we would have had seen the Uvo vs Kurapika fight until way later.

I dunno. I wouldn't exactly call 1999 HxH "subtle". Not when you have...

Kurapika: Go Free, Monkey! Break your chains of servitude! You are YOUR OWN master!

Monkey: ???


and yes I know that's not verbatim and no do I care to find the actual quote. I know it's just as dumb.

 

[mousiehamster]

Normal human beings act that way. Completely contrived to criticize it for lack of subtlety. Especially when you turn around and criticize it for being too subtle in say, the Genrei Ryodan meeting scene. And too in your face with Leorio. But too subtle somewhere else too. Which is it? Make up your mind.

Guys like Nensense simply cannot accept that 1999 anime has superior scriptwriting and direction to the 2011 anime. Instead he focuses exclusively on 1999 anime's modifications to the source material and takes it PERSONALLY.

Yeah I could see how fans of the manga might be annoyed that the adaptation doesn't really follow the source material (particularly in tone). But recent chapters of HxH have instead aligned itself, mood wise with the 1999 anime imo (CA and Election arc). Not that the 2011 anime is all too accurate in tone either. I would say that it is closer.

Either way, taken by itself the 1999 series is a work of art. Awesome ratings, high up the list of most critics, helmed by a talented director.

Speaking of which was Furahashi the dude who did the Kenshin OVAs? I heard a simliar complaint about them being too dark and realistic compared to the original. It was, however, also a tour-de-force of directing and storytelling.

 

[SHINOBI-03]

Speaking of which was Furahashi the dude who did the Kenshin OVAs? I heard a simliar complaint about them being too dark and realistic compared to the original. It was, however, also a tour-de-force of directing and storytelling.

Yeah and I couldn't bare to watch the OVAs because the atmosphere was not the Kenshin atmosphere I used to know. Watsuki himself didn't like it because it was too gloomy for him.

 

[Demonspeed]

Normal human beings act that way. Completely contrived to criticize it for lack of subtlety. Especially when you turn around and criticize it for being too subtle in say, the Genrei Ryodan meeting scene. And too in your face with Leorio. But too subtle somewhere else too. Which is it? Make up your mind.

Guys like Nensense simply cannot accept that 1999 anime has superior scriptwriting and direction to the 2011 anime. Instead he focuses exclusively on 1999 anime's modifications to the source material and takes it PERSONALLY.

Yeah I could see how fans of the manga might be annoyed that the adaptation doesn't really follow the source material (particularly in tone). But recent chapters of HxH have instead aligned itself, mood wise with the 1999 anime imo (CA and Election arc). Not that the 2011 anime is all too accurate in tone either. I would say that it is closer.

Either way, taken by itself the 1999 series is a work of art. Awesome ratings, high up the list of most critics, helmed by a talented director.

Speaking of which was Furahashi the dude who did the Kenshin OVAs? I heard a simliar complaint about them being too dark and realistic compared to the original. It was, however, also a tour-de-force of directing and storytelling.

So you are saying changes in 1999 version are better than the manga? It's your opinion,and he had not enough material but he didn't portray some characters faithfully,and played so much with Kurapika that we are still arguing if he was a girl or not,even play with Gon/Killua relationship would have been more acceptable.

Hunter X Hunter is a manga,when a manga is animated,manga fans want to see what they read animated,he modified many things(techniques,quotes,etc.).

Even if you say 1999 anime>manga,i can't believe than you find all Furuhashi's script better,it implies also that you find characters better in 1999 anime.They had some good changes,but broadly,the result is negative,especially for a long-running series.

 

[futurefrog]

Normal human beings act that way. Completely contrived to criticize it for lack of subtlety. Especially when you turn around and criticize it for being too subtle in say, the Genrei Ryodan meeting scene. And too in your face with Leorio. But too subtle somewhere else too. Which is it? Make up your mind.

Guys like Nensense simply cannot accept that 1999 anime has superior scriptwriting and direction to the 2011 anime. Instead he focuses exclusively on 1999 anime's modifications to the source material and takes it PERSONALLY.

Yeah I could see how fans of the manga might be annoyed that the adaptation doesn't really follow the source material (particularly in tone). But recent chapters of HxH have instead aligned itself, mood wise with the 1999 anime imo (CA and Election arc). Not that the 2011 anime is all too accurate in tone either. I would say that it is closer.

Either way, taken by itself the 1999 series is a work of art. Awesome ratings, high up the list of most critics, helmed by a talented director.

Speaking of which was Furahashi the dude who did the Kenshin OVAs? I heard a simliar complaint about them being too dark and realistic compared to the original. It was, however, also a tour-de-force of directing and storytelling.

Dude stop speaking as these things are fact. Furuhashi is by no means an accomplished director, with the majority of his works being widely lambasted for a number of reasons, particularly his overly self indulgent directing that does not respect source material he is adapting.

I don't know where you get off by creating false facts and argueing for what seems to simply be the sake of argueing. We get it you like the 1999 version but you struggle to find reasons as to why it is 'better' than the 2011 version. It doesn't have to be better, it was good in it's own right, stop making up lies to try make sense of your own flawed logic and statements.

 

[mrsticky005]

Normal human beings act that way. Completely contrived to criticize it for lack of subtlety. Especially when you turn around and criticize it for being too subtle in say, the Genrei Ryodan meeting scene. And too in your face with Leorio. But too subtle somewhere else too. Which is it? Make up your mind.

Normal people talk to other people's pet monkeys and tell them to go free? Actually no it's not contrived at all. There are times when to be subtle and there are times when to be in your face. Or somewhere in between the two. The monkey scene was over the top and silly. It would be one thing if this was Gon who you know actually is a wild child of sorts. But while Kurapika has an encyclopedic knowledge he's not exactly "in touch" with nature.
This is a clear cut case of the 1999 director pushing a message---monkeys should live in the wild. Of course 2011 has done this as well with
Gon smiling and saying he has no cavities. It's a pretty obvious "brush yo teeth!" ploy.

Phantom Troupe on the other hand you should want to be "over the top". They are a "Troupe" after all. A troupe isn't any good unless
it has stage presence. What do you think has more presence? The quiet and subtle troupe or the Hamalicious in your face troupe?

Now that doesn't mean I want Chrollo yelling "YOU WILL NEVER DEFEAT ME, GON FREECSS!" I do want his characterization to be subtle
in that way. But I want there to be a real PRESENCE. Something that makes you say 'OHHHH SHIT THE TROUPE IS HERE!" When they arrive.

2011 Uvogin has displayed that BEAUTIFULLY.

The Phantom Troupe power walk has also displayed it BEAUTIFULLY!

Of course not every Troupe member should be as Uvogin is. But they should still grab your attention.

Guys like Nensense simply cannot accept that 1999 anime has superior scriptwriting and direction to the 2011 anime. Instead he focuses exclusively on 1999 anime's modifications to the source material and takes it PERSONALLY.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Yeah I could see how fans of the manga might be annoyed that the adaptation doesn't really follow the source material (particularly in tone). But recent chapters of HxH have instead aligned itself, mood wise with the 1999 anime imo (CA and Election arc). Not that the 2011 anime is all too accurate in tone either. I would say that it is closer.

I don't see how the Chimera Ant Arc is ANYTHING mood wise like what I've seen from the 99 anime.

Either way, taken by itself the 1999 series is a work of art. Awesome ratings, high up the list of most critics, helmed by a talented director.

Speaking of which was Furahashi the dude who did the Kenshin OVAs? I heard a simliar complaint about them being too dark and realistic compared to the original. It was, however, also a tour-de-force of directing and storytelling.

Actually...at least on the grittiness level I liked Samurai X. But honestly I haven't divulged too deeply into it.

---------- Post added at 12:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 AM ----------

Yeah and I couldn't bare to watch the OVAs because the atmosphere was not the Kenshin atmosphere I used to know. Watsuki himself didn't like it because it was too gloomy for him.

I think the reason I was able to watch it...was because I'm NOT a Kenshin fan.

And get this---Samurai X made me LOSE interest in Kenshin because the big eyes kenshin look in the manga and anime
now just seems too I dunno "happy" compared to Samurai X. But then I may be quick too judge? I dunno it's
just I somehow liked the gloomy atmosphere from Samurai X and thought Kenshin would be the same.

 

[Bomber D Rufi]

Normal human beings act that way. Completely contrived to criticize it for lack of subtlety. Especially when you turn around and criticize it for being too subtle in say, the Genrei Ryodan meeting scene. And too in your face with Leorio. But too subtle somewhere else too. Which is it? Make up your mind.

Guys like Nensense simply cannot accept that 1999 anime has superior scriptwriting and direction to the 2011 anime. Instead he focuses exclusively on 1999 anime's modifications to the source material and takes it PERSONALLY.

Yeah I could see how fans of the manga might be annoyed that the adaptation doesn't really follow the source material (particularly in tone). But recent chapters of HxH have instead aligned itself, mood wise with the 1999 anime imo (CA and Election arc). Not that the 2011 anime is all too accurate in tone either. I would say that it is closer.

Either way, taken by itself the 1999 series is a work of art. Awesome ratings, high up the list of most critics, helmed by a talented director.

Speaking of which was Furahashi the dude who did the Kenshin OVAs? I heard a simliar complaint about them being too dark and realistic compared to the original. It was, however, also a tour-de-force of directing and storytelling.

It might be superior if HXH were an anime not based on a manga. The problem with pretty much the entirety of your argument is that Furuhashi did not create HXH, Togashi Yoshihiro did. I want to see a work based on his manga, not what Furuhashi thinks his manga should be. As I keep saying, 1999 is not superior if it mucks up the original characters to a point that they're really mere charactures of their former selves. Maybe 2011 isn't 'close' to the source material either, but to claim that Togashi is taking the tone from 1999 and 'aligning' it to later chapters of the manga is overreaching, plain and simple. We have no idea if he is or isn't, and there are plenty of instances during the ants arc where Madhouse's aptitude for the loud and flashy would lend itself much more than 1999's quiet sublity. (Which is as inconsistant as some of the characters. Sometimes it's really nicely done, sometimes it's like Furuhashi is trying his damned hardest to not only direct the anime, but direct how we should feel or think.)

I'm not saying either anime has to be 100 percent accurate to the manga as that would be boring. Fillers are a necessary evil for anime, and I do think some of the ones in 1999 were actually pretty well done. Does this mean it's superior to the newer one? No. Not really. It might be if Furuhashi were the one to create HXH, but not when compared to the work it's SUPPOSED to be adapting.

1999 and 2011 are different. No matter how much you want to believe 1999 is better, it is not. It is just different. It has just as many flaws as 2011's redux. Your are welcome to have a preference, but there really is no such thing as better.

 

[mousiehamster]

Dude stop speaking as these things are fact. Furuhashi is by no means an accomplished director, with the majority of his works being widely lambasted for a number of reasons, particularly his overly self indulgent directing that does not respect source material he is adapting.

You just repeated exactly what i said: having an issue with his "lack of respect" for the source material he is adapting.

I don't know where you get off by creating false facts and argueing for what seems to simply be the sake of argueing. We get it you like the 1999 version but you struggle to find reasons as to why it is 'better' than the 2011 version. It doesn't have to be better, it was good in it's own right, stop making up lies to try make sense of your own flawed logic and statements.

I haven't told a single lie. Is anything i said factually disputable? No? Then you turn around and yourself opine that my opinions are logically flawed and factually incorrect in the very same sentence. Jesus Christ.

You think I should consider that the 1999 anime is merely "good in its own right" do you? Right back at you.

It might be superior if HXH were an anime not based on a manga. The problem with pretty much the entirety of your argument is that Furuhashi did not create HXH, Togashi Yoshihiro did. I want to see a work based on his manga, not what Furuhashi thinks his manga should be. As I keep saying, 1999 is not superior if it mucks up the original characters to a point that they're really mere charactures of their former selves.

So was FMA any good or is it garbage because it deviated from the source material? General consensus is that it's pretty good.

Maybe 2011 isn't 'close' to the source material either, but to claim that Togashi is taking the tone from 1999 and 'aligning' it to later chapters of the manga is overreaching, plain and simple. We have no idea if he is or isn't, and there are plenty of instances during the ants arc where Madhouse's aptitude for the loud and flashy would lend itself much more than 1999's quiet sublity.

What I really wanted to say is that the manga seemed to be more aligned with the tone of the 1999 anime, not that Togashi made a conscious attempt to do so. In respect of the CA arc, which parts do you think 2011's bombastic child-like portrayal would be more advantageous than the 1999 anime's approach?

I'm not saying either anime has to be 100 percent accurate to the manga as that would be boring. Fillers are a necessary evil for anime, and I do think some of the ones in 1999 were actually pretty well done. Does this mean it's superior to the newer one? No. Not really. It might be if Furuhashi were the one to create HXH, but not when compared to the work it's SUPPOSED to be adapting.

Again we come to the same issue that has nothing to do with the actual anime itself.

1999 and 2011 are different. No matter how much you want to believe 1999 is better, it is not. It is just different. It has just as many flaws as 2011's redux. Your are welcome to have a preference, but there really is no such thing as better.

Sure there is. If there is no such things as better, there would be no such thing as a flaw. Uwe Boll movies would have the same standing as Kubrick's even though you're really comparing apples and oranges in that case. My assertion is that it's better. An opinion. Manure tastes bad. Another opinion.

Normal people talk to other people's pet monkeys and tell them to go free? Actually no it's not contrived at all. There are times when to be subtle and there are times when to be in your face. Or somewhere in between the two. The monkey scene was over the top and silly. It would be one thing if this was Gon who you know actually is a wild child of sorts. But while Kurapika has an encyclopedic knowledge he's not exactly "in touch" with nature.
This is a clear cut case of the 1999 director pushing a message---monkeys should live in the wild.

Oh right, the Director was trying to send a message. About monkeys. And how they should live in the wild. You just plucked that out of nowhere.

Phantom Troupe on the other hand you should want to be "over the top". They are a "Troupe" after all. A troupe isn't any good unless
it has stage presence. What do you think has more presence? The quiet and subtle troupe or the Hamalicious in your face troupe?

Now that doesn't mean I want Chrollo yelling "YOU WILL NEVER DEFEAT ME, GON FREECSS!" I do want his characterization to be subtle
in that way. But I want there to be a real PRESENCE. Something that makes you say 'OHHHH SHIT THE TROUPE IS HERE!" When they arrive.

You mean like in the 1999 anime where they suddenly disappear just like that in a single shot? That was the substitute to the manga's power walk. But Chrollo is a subtle character. Look at his design. The visual design of Chrollo is incredible in how much it conveys. I don't understand your complaint actually because even in the 2011 anime he isn't too different. He does show some emotional reaction here or there, but otherwise Chrollo is the unshakeable, intelligent, charismatic sociopath. And who among the troupe are actually OTT? I can only think of two: phinx and ubo. I wouldn't use the word OTT either.

 

[Bomber D Rufi]

You just repeated exactly what i said: having an issue with his "lack of respect" for the source material he is adapting.



I haven't told a single lie. Is anything i said factually disputable? No? Then you turn around and yourself opine that my opinions are logically flawed and factually incorrect in the very same sentence. Jesus Christ.

You think I should consider that the 1999 anime is merely "good in its own right" do you? Right back at you.



So was FMA any good or is it garbage because it deviated from the source material? General consensus is that it's pretty good.



What I really wanted to say is that the manga seemed to be more aligned with the tone of the 1999 anime, not that Togashi made a conscious attempt to do so. In respect of the CA arc, which parts do you think 2011's bombastic child-like portrayal would be more advantageous than the 1999 anime's approach?



Again we come to the same issue that has nothing to do with the actual anime itself.



Sure there is. If there is no such things as better, there would be no such thing as a flaw. Uwe Boll movies would have the same standing as Kubrick's even though you're really comparing apples and oranges in that case. My assertion is that it's better. An opinion. Manure tastes bad. Another opinion.



Oh right, the Director was trying to send a message. About monkeys. And how they should live in the wild. You just plucked that out of nowhere.



You mean like in the 1999 anime where they suddenly disappear just like that in a single shot? That was the substitute to the manga's power walk. But Chrollo is a subtle character. Look at his design. The visual design of Chrollo is incredible in how much it conveys. I don't understand your complaint actually because even in the 2011 anime he isn't too different. He does show some emotional reaction here or there, but otherwise Chrollo is the unshakeable, intelligent, charismatic sociopath. And who among the troupe are actually OTT? I can only think of two: phinx and ubo. I wouldn't use the word OTT either.

Well for one thing, I wouldn't want a subtle and quiet soundtrack playing with a muted palet when Killua is taking on the ants in the trees and during the darts game. I also wouldn't want the Spider's fight against the ants to be subtily done. They're a troupe, not a funeral procession. 1999's perfect Gon is also a inconsistant problem for the Gon that rises during this arc. I wouldn't want Gon's anger to be nerfed or even worse negated by Furuhashi's depiction of him as a perfect child. Togashi has always painted him in a shade of gray which during the ants arc is edging dangerously towards black. Just like parts of 1999's depiction are perfect for certain moments, there are parts where it fails miserably. Just like there are parts of the ants arc where it would work well, and others where it would not. 99 is not a cure all. Oh and for your dismissal of the 'child-like' adaptation that MH is going for (which is a bit of an embellishment, but whatever.) You do realize Hunter X Hunter is a comic book meant for Japanese teenagers right? Sure there are enough instances where it defies a single genre, but for the most part it's target audience are boys between 13-17. I applaud Furuhashi for managing to met some success with his approach, (as severely flawed as it is/was), but this is not Ghost in the Shell or Cowboy Bebop. We all need to remember this, not just mousie and not just other 2011 haters/fans.

I see that you do agree with me on one major issue, which is good. That is, aruging which is better all comes down to opinion. It is your opinion that 1999 is better. It is my opinion that it is not any better or worse than 2011. We can argue this for centuries and not really get anywhere. For every point you can take away from 2011, I can take away from 1999. I even have my issues with 2011, as much as it seems that I'm praising it. (I actually hate the director Koujina for ruining another WSJ adaption, so I went into this series with a huge amount of apprehension which is as of current date still mostly unresolved.) Despite this, I will never be able to say that 1999 is better since it has too many fundamental flaws with character depiction, too much sublity in some areas and too little and others, and of course changes that don't make any sense. I wouldn't care if HXH was flash animated, as while animation is a nice bonus, it is character interaction and story that gets my attention. The manga's interaction is what I enjoy most about HXH, and Furuhashi failed to get that in my opinion. Therefore his work is only 'decent' (to me.) MH may indeed end up being the same way eventually, but the fact that it does not screw around with the characters is always going to give it a leg up on it's 12 year old opposition.

I'm not posting to deter enjoyment of either series, just to expose how hypocritical it is to claim that one is better portrayed than another when in fact they both fail in key issues. Be it Madhouse's inability to pay close attention to tone and being a bit audacious in it's execution, to 1999's lack of understanding of the characters and while exercising expert execution in tone and subility sometimes tries too hard to cajole it's audience into agreeing with it other times; at the behest of changing events and characters around without any real reason other than to advance the director's cause and not to promote the original.

I honestly like both FMA's for different reasons. Once again the one that follows the manga is my preference, but they both do things well and other things badly. Just like HXH's different animes. It helps that at least for the most part Mizushima seemed to 'get' FMA, better than Furuhashi 'got' HXH. Of course, this is just my opinion.

Gintama's anime for example is one that seems to understand it's characters enough to make entertaining detours from their manga counterparts without coming off as not knowing the source material at all. I really don't have a problem with Furuhashi adding things here and there, but when he does it to the detriment of the characters that I had high hopes of seeing animated, it just annoys me. Gintama's director and staff added characters, extended episodes and often even did panels differently than Sorachi. I don't know if they just talked to him or read the manga to a point that they could recite it, but they seemed to understand much better than Furuhashi what made the original manga popular enough to warrent an anime in the first place. Togashi's HXH is what got licensed to be animated, not Furuhashi's.

 

[Half The Sky]

I've been lurking here for a while, I can't find many other places which discuss Hunter X Hunter and also have some healthy activity. Neither can I ever find people to talk about this series in my personal life. My bias: I watched the animation before reading the manga; consequently, I read the manga with the voices and visuals of the 1999 series imprinted within my head. So I strongly favor the 1999 series (before Greed Island) over the new 2011 remake; but I am still glad that Hunter X Hunter can still have that sort of recognition to this day.

Regarding Hunter X Hunter, I find that I love the way Togashi deploys the use of strategy and Nen. I find that the Nen system is the cardinal niche of Hunter X Hunter as much as Stands are for JoJo's Bizarre Adventures, as it is the reservoir of strategic, tactical, and character creativity. Both adaptations of 1999 and 2011 correctly follow Togashi's idea of nen. And the recent episode of 2011 has begun to illustrate nen with colors like its predecessor.

I also love the new ending songs for the 2011 animation, they are incredibly powerful, and I listen to them every day. The rest of its OST is difficult to listen to, it has some good tunes, but the worst are the ones which I can only describe as "mind-numbing infinite loop", an example: when the Injyuu showed up to fight Uvogin. For consistent writing, I'd criticize the 1999 collection of OST - but will defer to being defensive on the 1999 side, it would be more fun that way.

I have found that censorship is a common topic when people debate between both adaptations. Censorship has never bothered me for either series. The method by which people are defeated doesn't change when things are censored, blood is sufficient. To me, people who have argued for more gore (mostly the 1999 fans) come off as violence-loving idiots that only pay attention to action scenes and have temporarily forgotten that it isn't the first thing that the franchise should be identified for.

Some have argued that the 2011 adaption is objectively better, and that the 1999 fans are just pandering to their nostalgia and unable to move on from their past. To begin with, animation and manga is never produced to be viewed only objectively, after all, profit is made from subjective tastes (taste is a good word, like choosing food). So there is nothing wrong with subjectively liking the 1999 version, as animation companies seek to tell the story AND make a profit at the same time, just as much as there is nothing wrong with subjectively liking Hunter X Hunter over any other series that one chooses to suddenly objectively criticize. Worse off are the people that cannot identify between objective and subjective reasoning, but present themselves as objective and imply that they are rational thinkers while banding with people who subjectively support their point-of-view.

I think I'll say more later, that is enough for my first post written here.

 

[Bomber D Rufi]

I've been lurking here for a while, I can't find many other places which discuss Hunter X Hunter and also have some healthy activity. Neither can I ever find people to talk about this series in my personal life. My bias: I watched the animation before reading the manga; consequently, I read the manga with the voices and visuals of the 1999 series imprinted within my head. So I strongly favor the 1999 series (before Greed Island) over the new 2011 remake; but I am still glad that Hunter X Hunter can still have that sort of recognition to this day.

Regarding Hunter X Hunter, I find that I love the way Togashi deploys the use of strategy and Nen. I find that the Nen system is the cardinal niche of Hunter X Hunter as much as Stands are for JoJo's Bizarre Adventures, as it is the reservoir of strategic, tactical, and character creativity. Both adaptations of 1999 and 2011 correctly follow Togashi's idea of nen. And the recent episode of 2011 has begun to illustrate nen with colors like its predecessor.

I also love the new ending songs for the 2011 animation, they are incredibly powerful, and I listen to them every day. The rest of its OST is difficult to listen to, it has some good tunes, but the worst are the ones which I can only describe as "mind-numbing infinite loop", an example: when the Injyuu showed up to fight Uvogin. For consistent writing, I'd criticize the 1999 collection of OST - but will defer to being defensive on the 1999 side, it would be more fun that way.

I have found that censorship is a common topic when people debate between both adaptations. Censorship has never bothered me for either series. The method by which people are defeated doesn't change when things are censored, blood is sufficient. To me, people who have argued for more gore (mostly the 1999 fans) come off as violence-loving idiots that only pay attention to action scenes and have temporarily forgotten that it isn't the first thing that the franchise should be identified for.

Some have argued that the 2011 adaption is objectively better, and that the 1999 fans are just pandering to their nostalgia and unable to move on from their past. To begin with, animation and manga is never produced to be viewed only objectively, after all, profit is made from subjective tastes (taste is a good word, like choosing food). So there is nothing wrong with subjectively liking the 1999 version, as animation companies seek to tell the story AND make a profit at the same time, just as much as there is nothing wrong with subjectively liking Hunter X Hunter over any other series that one chooses to suddenly objectively criticize. Worse off are the people that cannot identify between objective and subjective reasoning, but present themselves as objective and imply that they are rational thinkers while banding with people who subjectively support their point-of-view.

I think I'll say more later, that is enough for my first post written here.

First thing off, welcome. It's nice to meet new people. I agree with you too; while I have had debates with others on the forum, I like the interaction and thoughts put into each post. I hope you'll enjoy your time here.

I too saw the 1999 anime before reading the manga, and for a while liked it wholeheartedly. Then when I tried to read the chapters not animated, I found the scantlation scene to be pathetically sparse so I decided to buy the entirety of Viz's translation in one go from Amazon. I was blown away with just how different things were, and appaled that this great manga had been done somewhat of a disservice by it's anime adaptation.

Now I'll step back and say that it isn't at all that I dislike 1999. as a stand alone product it is imaginative and extremely well done for a shounen anime. The problem is, it is not supposed to be a stand alone product but an extention of the original manga.

That being said, 2011 has it's issues as well, but I share your sentiment that it's just wonderful to have HXH to talk about. It would be my hope that people who haven't seen 1999 are inspired by 2011 to go give it a try, and vice versa.

WE do have to keep in mind that 1999 is mostly out of print nowdays, (even in the US!) and for the most part the standard of HXH anime will be measured by 2011 until (maybe?) ANOTHER adaptation comes out.

Once again welcome! I can't say I speak on behalf of everyone else, but I think you'll find everyone is pretty friendly and passonate about HXH. Whether we like one anime over the other, that much is clear.

 

[mousiehamster]

Well for one thing, I wouldn't want a subtle and quiet soundtrack playing with a muted palet when Killua is taking on the ants in the trees and during the darts game. I also wouldn't want the Spider's fight against the ants to be subtily done. They're a troupe, not a funeral procession.

Finally something specific to discuss! Actually I think it's a bit of a misconception that 1999 is funereal all the time - it just takes itself seriously. The troupe actually did have some fairly exciting music to go with their exploits. It's the contrast the Furahashi is shooting for. The fights in 1999 HxH were fairly dynamic, exciting and had plenty of kinetic energy, I would say. Just think back to all the 1999 fights. Or rewatch them! The only fight that ended up rather sombre was the 2nd half of Kurapica v Uvogin which was like an execution.

1999's perfect Gon is also a inconsistant problem for the Gon that rises during this arc. I wouldn't want Gon's anger to be nerfed or even worse negated by Furuhashi's depiction of him as a perfect child. Togashi has always painted him in a shade of gray which during the ants arc is edging dangerously towards black. Just like parts of 1999's depiction are perfect for certain moments, there are parts where it fails miserably. Just like there are parts of the ants arc where it would work well, and others where it would not. 99 is not a cure all.

Spoiler

K's death

was the spark that lit the powder keg rather than it being an inherent part of Gon that was slowly unveiling itself (could you have predicted that the Gon from GI would react in such a manner?) so i think it would not be inconsistent for 1999 Gon to react in that manner, but yes this is certainly arguable.

Oh and for your dismissal of the 'child-like' adaptation that MH is going for (which is a bit of an embellishment, but whatever.) You do realize Hunter X Hunter is a comic book meant for Japanese teenagers right? Sure there are enough instances where it defies a single genre, but for the most part it's target audience are boys between 13-17. I applaud Furuhashi for managing to met some success with his approach, (as severely flawed as it is/was), but this is not Ghost in the Shell or Cowboy Bebop. We all need to remember this, not just mousie and not just other 2011 haters/fans.

Yeah but 2011 HxH (at the Hunter Exam, particularly) was targetted to boys 5-10. It occupies a morning slot in Japan. Yorkshin is improving in that regard but still can't quite shake its roots.

 

[Bomber D Rufi]

Finally something specific to discuss! Actually I think it's a bit of a misconception that 1999 is funereal all the time - it just takes itself seriously. The troupe actually did have some fairly exciting music to go with their exploits. It's the contrast the Furahashi is shooting for. The fights in 1999 HxH were fairly dynamic, exciting and had plenty of kinetic energy, I would say. Just think back to all the 1999 fights. Or rewatch them! The only fight that ended up rather sombre was the 2nd half of Kurapica v Uvogin which was like an execution.

Spoiler

K's death

was the spark that lit the powder keg rather than it being an inherent part of Gon that was slowly unveiling itself (could you have predicted that the Gon from GI would react in such a manner?) so i think it would not be inconsistent for 1999 Gon to react in that manner, but yes this is certainly arguable.



Yeah but 2011 HxH (at the Hunter Exam, particularly) was targetted to boys 5-10. It occupies a morning slot in Japan. Yorkshin is improving in that regard but still can't quite shake its roots.

Oh, I don't feel that 1999's troupe is always lacking in flair! The 1999 rendition of Feitan and Franklin mowing down the mob is better than the 2011 one. The music which had really been just as much as a hit or miss as MH's version as it was in this one syched up perfectly delivering a mighty combination of audio/visual epicness that lesser anime can only dream of. I think I just love the troupe's theme in 1999. It played again when Killua and Gon were caught by Phinks and Paku during the tailing stint, and the escape (or lack therof) was also expertly animated. Each of Togashi's panels were painstakingly recreated, and I thought it was amazing. The fact that I even REMEMBER these things is testiment to the fact that when 1999 works, it hits the floor running.

Of course 2011's version was theatrical which I thought fit with the troupe a bit more, and I thought the Uvo and Kurapika fight was well done in their version as well. 1999's was a different take on the material which I appreciated, but I do think MH did do some pretty spectacular stuff.

While it is true that...

Spoiler

K-san's death

is the catylist that spurs Gon's shift from gray to black, I was more talking about several incidents where Furuhashi plays up his innocent side. I believe during Yorkshin there's one such scene where Leorio (or Killua?) has to explain to Gon about the pursuit of the spiders, while in the manga he understood it pretty well. I think during the hunter exam as well there was the badge scene that was edited as well. I'm not saying 1999 Gon can't become Ants arc Gon, but it's stretching things a bit.


Now that last thing I didn't know. I knew HXH came on Sunday mornings, but I didn't know the timeslot was historically for younger children. Though is this really MH's fault? It's not like they hand picked this time slot and tried to edit Hunter into something that could occupy it without problems. There's a chain of command, and I'm sure the animation company doesn't really get a say of what time the television station airs their anime. All they can do is adapt to what they're told...so holding this against MH is sorta unfair, don't you think?

---------- Post added at 10:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 AM ----------

Thanks, Bomber. I think I also joined to achieve some equilibrium, I thought mousiehamster was beginning to lose his patience and so I wanted to play. For a while, it seemed like he was being ganged up on (although I can't say he didn't have it coming).

Fair enough. I do think that mousie's posts do have lots of merit, and they do tend to get swallowed up by people who get passonate when making an argument or counter argument. While I disagree with his sentiments towards 1999, I think at least his posts are well thought out and sometimes pretty interesting.

 

[Noonealive]

1999 anime contradicts the manga. 2011 anime rarely if ever contradicts the manga

2011>1999 indisputable.

 

[Half The Sky]

1999 anime contradicts the manga. 2011 anime rarely if ever contradicts the manga

2011>1999 indisputable.

One other thing i like to point out that The 1999 series in a way separated it's fandom. I still recommend both series to everyone because they're both equally as good in their own right. /snip*

I don't have HxH on this laptop, but I've always wanted to actually see if this is true by marathoning both animations again. Might try it this weekend.

But define what you mean by contradiction? Is "doing -exactly- the -opposite-" the correct phrase?

 

[mrsticky005]

Oh right, the Director was trying to send a message. About monkeys. And how they should live in the wild. You just plucked that out of nowhere.

No, I didn't. There are plenty of people who think that animals such as monkeys should not be pets. Much of it has to do with
the fact that these exotic creatures are illegal as pets so in order to make a profit the animals such as monkeys have to be smuggled in
and sometimes in the process the monkeys die. Now we didn't see anything like that in the 1999 version but we did see Kurapika telling
a monkey that he should be free and live in the wild. He does no such thing in the manga and it's rather out of character for Kurapika
to do so. So why have the scene? For the ironic humor of Kurapika talking seriously to a monkey? Maybe. But more like a message was
being sent to the audience. The audience should think afterwards "Hm...maybe monkeys DO belong in the wild?"



You mean like in the 1999 anime where they suddenly disappear just like that in a single shot? That was the substitute to the manga's power walk. But Chrollo is a subtle character. Look at his design. The visual design of Chrollo is incredible in how much it conveys. I don't understand your complaint actually because even in the 2011 anime he isn't too different. He does show some emotional reaction here or there, but otherwise Chrollo is the unshakeable, intelligent, charismatic sociopath. And who among the troupe are actually OTT? I can only think of two: phinx and ubo. I wouldn't use the word OTT either.

No, I do not mean like that. I mean like the power walk which sadly neither version had. Over the top is probably the wrong word.
It's more that they all have presence. Chrollo to me isn't a subtle character. His mannerisms are subtle. But he stands out. I guess he stands out
because his mannerisms are so subtle. I don't think Chrollo=Uvogin. But while Uvogin roars and everyone hears him. Chrollo's just being there
automatically grabs your attention.

Actually 2011 IS different. Chrollo's introduction in the 2011 actually had more SHAZAM! than even in the manga did.
In the 2011, all the spiders are wondering...what does Chrollo want to steal? He's sitting in the shadows. Ominous
music is playing. Then he starts to emerge "We're going to rob the auction". Uvogin asks "of what?" Chrollo "everything!"
Uvogin "you're not serious!" Chrollo "scared?" Uvogin "No! I'm thrilled give us the order!" Chrollo "I give you permission"

Silence

Chrollo "to kill everyone who gets in our way."

Uvogin yells in delight and the music starts up again.

Only one thing missing---The phantom Troupe power walk. Sigh.



1999 on the other hand is much more low key. The music is more classy than it is epic like the 2011 music was. The color scheme and atmosphere
is very dull. While the Spiders look more extravagant than a normal person most just kind of ordinary in the world of HxH. They don't pop out as much.


However I must give credit to the 99 for following the manga more closely in the literal sense.
The changes were very very minor but nothing that would affect it. However I do not think captured the spirit of the scene.

If the 1999 had more of the spirit of the manga at the scene along with the power walk it would have been perfect.

2011 had more of the spirit and it did make some adjustments though in a way they enhanced the scene.
Not that I think the manga needed enhancement but I think what 2011 did with the built up to Chrollo's reveal
may have had more impact for the anime than if they just immediately cut to the scene like the manga does.
Both worked. However the power walk was the lacking piece in the 2011 to really seal the deal.

Yeah it's one panel.
But it's one friggin awesome epic panel.

I mean...who doesn't remember the power walk from Tombstone that has seen the movie?

 

[Half The Sky]

@mrsticky005

You said the word "spirit" several times, and you wrote what you liked about both adaptations, but you didn't quite define anything as the manga's spirit.

In the manga, the meeting of the Spiders takes place in the middle of the day (in contrast with both animations), the sun is glaring hard. Feitan, Franklin, Machi, and Nobunaga had to walk through a desert to get to their temporary base. In their base, an empty room half-lit by the sun, the rest of the Spiders except Chrollo and Uvogin are drawn smaller and less detailed, nobody else but the named two members are making any exchange. After discussing their plan, Uvo is the only one with any open excitement to the notion of the heist as they depart.

So, I don't think there is anything wrong with a mysterious mood or spirit while Uvogin and Chrollo* gets all the spotlight. Actually, I found Shalnark's attitude to be too much and was ruining the better music that the 2011 had at the moment.

PS: There really IS no shot of the ENTIRE Phantom Troupe all at once in either adaptation in any episode aside from the openings, as you said, it would have been very meaningful for us.

 

[mrsticky005]

@mrsticky005

You said the word "spirit" several times, and you wrote what you liked about both adaptations, but you didn't quite define anything as the manga's spirit.

In the manga, the meeting of the Spiders takes place in the middle of the day (in contrast with both animations), the sun is glaring hard. Feitan, Franklin, Machi, and Nobunaga had to walk through a desert to get to their temporary base. In their base, an empty room half-lit by the sun, the rest of the Spiders except Chrollo and Uvogin are drawn smaller and less detailed, nobody else but the named two members are making any exchange. After discussing their plan, Uvo is the only one with any open excitement to the notion of the heist as they depart.

So, I don't think there is anything wrong with a mysterious mood or spirit while Uvogin and Chrollo* gets all the spotlight. Actually, I found Shalnark's attitude to be too much and was ruining the better music that the 2011 had at the moment.

PS: There really IS no shot of the ENTIRE Phantom Troupe all at once in either adaptation in any episode aside from the openings, as you said, it would have been very meaningful for us.

You're right it does take place at noon.

I don't actually have a problem with Uvogin and Chrollo getting all the spotlight. Chrollo is definitely the star in the manga.
And I feel as if 2011 did a better job of showing that than the 1999 did. It's like this in 2011 all the Spiders are fairly noticeable
but Chrollo (and Uvogin...and of course Hisoka) clearly stand out. You can tell that Chrollo and Uvogin are going to be the man act
while Hisoka is going to be the wink and nod. As if the director is saying "Watch out for Chrollo and Uvogin! But don't forget about Hisoka. "

Whereas 1999 it was more that Chrollo stood out...because nobody else mattered. But even Chrollo didn't really seem all that
I dunno. He was there but I mean there wasn't a whole lot of impact. Here let me put it this way. ILLUMI had far more presence
than Chrollo did in the 1999 series.

With the manga what I see is the desert scene and the beginning of Chrollo's speech is the build up.
Then we get Uvogin asking questions and it starts getting intense. We get the close up on Chrollo and then it zooms in.

and then the climax "Kill them all!"/ Power walk!


It's not that the 1999 is mysterious that is a problem. It's just too low key.


But really I suppose it's all a matter of opinion.

 

[futurefrog]

You're incredibly repetitive and every reply i've gotten from you is devoid of content. If you have a specific "falsity" in mind, say it. Fact is easy to verify.

I repeat myself because you just do not get the point. Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. Why even try to discuss if you are not open to other peoples opinion? All of us here have had no issue accepting that your opinion is your own, so why must you aggressively attack others for having a differing opinion to that of your own? We can argue which series is better until the cows come home but at the end of the day, much like everything, is a matter of opinion. Arguing so aggresively and forcing your opinions as the only possible truth is just not acceptable mate. I have no problem discussing this manga with you, but only if you calm down and tone back to aggression.

We all just want to talk about Hunter x Hunter, we all love it, lets celebrate it, not conflict over it - something we love.