Growing Like Fingernails

[phio_chan]

Re: What a neverending debt.

Indeed. I'm always amazed at how many foreigners come here every year to study Indonesian culture and language. I've taught a foreigner Indonesian before, and I felt awkward really. Talking Indonesian to foreigner is just... weird. He was fluent in French and I really wanted to learn from him, but I had to teach him Indonesian instead.

That sucks big deal, bwahahaha~ Well you could've made a contract in the beginning.

It is. I avoid watching it though.

Eh, why, you need to relax your stomach a bit.

 

[xi0]

Re: What a neverending debt.

German is only easy because it has a lot in common with Norwegian. Like I said before, most Norwegians can read a lot of German without having any German skills.

That's certainly true. I almost forgot all my Portuguese after I moved to Norway as a child, so I can confirm that in that specific case.

There are a bunch of german words that look and SOUND a lot like English. I'll hear German and sometimes be able to understand sentences completely and I've never had any formal lessons.

 

[yukihime03]

Re: What a neverending debt.

I have to disagree that Bahasa is really unknown, really. Some Australians and Arabs students have been learning Indonesian for almost 5-10 years now, since Indonesian is also included in their language curriculum. Not to mention some schools in East Asia as well.

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Also, I don't think Bahasa is boring at all. Indonesian literature in general are wonderful. Unless we're talking about teenlit or motivational books.

I know. But you should have seen what I compared it too. Of course Indonesian is still losing to English.

I don't read Indonesian literature for the reason that I don't like the genre, not the language. I think the only Indonesian novel I like is Laskar Pelangi. But I have to admit that some Indonesian literature are so great that it is recognized in international world and translated to many other languages. I'm actually proud to have one of the greatest Indonesian authors as my lecturer.

 

[Nuno]

Re: What a neverending debt.

There are a bunch of german words that look and SOUND a lot like English. I'll hear German and sometimes be able to understand sentences completely and I've never had any formal lessons.

Yeah that too. If you know e.g. both Norwegian and English you're at a major advantage. But only one of them works too. I'm sure you'd understand a lot of Portuguese too, in writing, just by recognizing similarities to English.

 

[xi0]

Re: What a neverending debt.

Yeah that too. If you know e.g. both Norwegian and English you're at a major advantage. But only one of them works too. I'm sure you'd understand a lot of Portuguese too, in writing, just by recognizing similarities to English.

Totally, and it helps that I studied Spanish for several years as well.

...reading is easier than speaking it nowadays though

There was a point in time that I actually forgot English was a Germanic language, given how many loanwords are used often. That and the fact that Spanish comes easier to me as well might be a factor.

 

[phio_chan]

Re: What a neverending debt.

I don't read Indonesian literature for the reason that I don't like the genre, not the language. I think the only Indonesian novel I like is Laskar Pelangi. But I have to admit that some Indonesian literature are so great that it is recognized in international world and translated to many other languages. I'm actually proud to have one of the greatest Indonesian authors as my lecturer.

Isn't Laskar Pelangi translated to English?

Eh, which author?

 

[yukihime03]

Re: What a neverending debt.

I've heard of this before. I couldn't remember who I was talking to, though... But they did study Bahasa. Which is like.. wow. XD Now this hatsuharupeace is an Australian who also knows some Bahasa. Aren't we popular. XDDD

They do consider our language, exotic?

Mm, literature is not really my field, so perhaps I can't say much. While at times I found the poems and other written poems lovely, I'm not very fond of it as a whole.

Well, compared to novels, I guess poems are more famous in Indonesian literature. I do like some poems from Chairil Anwar and Sapardi Djoko Damono.

I do think German is easier than Chinese (and Japanese in terms of kanji), although I think the structure of sentence is quite a pain.

And your last sentence is true. v__v

I think nothing can beat Chinese in terms of difficulty. I must be a shame for my ancestors since I dislike Chinese greatly. Well, I still try to speak it sometimes (though I'm sure I say them all in wrong tones) but I won't even try to write it.

 

[phio_chan]

Re: What a neverending debt.

They do consider our language, exotic?

*shrugs* Maybe, in a way or another.

Well, compared to novels, I guess poems are more famous in Indonesian literature. I do like some poems from Chairil Anwar and Sapardi Djoko Damono.

Those good, ol' high-school days when we were hunting poems and read them in front of class.

I think nothing can beat Chinese in terms of difficulty. We must be a shame for our ancestors since I dislike Chinese greatly. Well, I still try to speak it sometimes (though I'm sure I say them all in wrong tones) but I won't even try to write it.

There, my correction.

 

[yukihime03]

Re: What a neverending debt.

German is only easy because it has a lot in common with Norwegian. Like I said before, most Norwegians can read a lot of German without having any German skills.

That's certainly true. I almost forgot all my Portuguese after I moved to Norway as a child, so I can confirm that in that specific case.

Hmm. Is that so. I'm a bit foreign to a grammar system such as German. I can only be good at English grammar just because I've learned it for more than ten years. Well, Indonesian, my mother language, is a language almost without grammar so... *shrug*

---------- Post added at 08:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:15 PM ----------

That sucks big deal, bwahahaha~ Well you could've made a contract in the beginning.



Eh, why, you need to relax your stomach a bit.

Well, I can't. I taught him Indonesian because my lecturer told me to.

I sometimes watch it in Youtube.

---------- Post added at 08:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:17 PM ----------

Isn't Laskar Pelangi translated to English?

Eh, which author?

Yes. And in several other languages, I believe.

Prof. Budi Darma.

 

[xi0]

Re: What a neverending debt.

Isn't a language that isn't in your face in daily life considered exotic by definition? I mean, the Spanish influence is all over the place here and in the south there's the addition of French...but even so, it's still exotic. I mean, you see Spanish everywhere here and we don't even have too large of a Latino population compared to other places in the US and it's still exotic to me.

Maybe it's just the geography that factors in. If I was in Europe I'd probably feel differently

 

[yukihime03]

Re: What a neverending debt.

Those good, ol' high-school days when we were hunting poems and read them in front of class.



There, my correction.

Yeah. I still can't believe that our poets can be so romantic.

Haha. Indeed. When the elders are complaining, I defend myself by saying that at least I can speak and understand Chinese a bit.

 

[Doraku]

Re: What a neverending debt.

I've heard of this before. I couldn't remember who I was talking to, though... But they did study Bahasa. Which is like.. wow. XD Now this hatsuharupeace is an Australian who also knows some Bahasa. Aren't we popular. XDDD

Mm, literature is not really my field, so perhaps I can't say much. While at times I found the poems and other written poems lovely, I'm not very fond of it as a whole.

Yes, Indonesia without the slang words is not as hard as you think, that's why their government started to put Bahasa in the curriculum.

You have to read more , classic works such as Chairil Anwar is a must, obviously. I could mention several names besides him who create poems as great as him.

I know. But you should have seen what I compared it too. Of course Indonesian is still losing to English.

I don't read Indonesian literature for the reason that I don't like the genre, not the language. I think the only Indonesian novel I like is Laskar Pelangi. But I have to admit that some Indonesian literature are so great that it is recognized in international world and translated to many other languages. I'm actually proud to have one of the greatest Indonesian authors as my lecturer.

I'd argue that's because we came into history in the mid 20th century. That's really late compared to England, France or even Chinese, which heritage and civilization are already known since a long time ago. I'm still optimistic, though.

You have to find more samizdat books pre-Reformation era , I was really amazed when I discovered them for the first time, their words, their sentences are so in harmony and not cheap, like modern mainstream books these days. Laskar Pelangi is great, I agree with that.

---------- Post added at 08:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:20 PM ----------

Wait, I'm happy that I could turn the discussion in this thread into language class.

 

[yukihime03]

Re: What a neverending debt.

Isn't a language that isn't in your face in daily life considered exotic by definition? I mean, the Spanish influence is all over the place here and in the south there's the addition of French...but even so, it's still exotic. I mean, you see Spanish everywhere here and we don't even have too large of a Latino population compared to other places in the US and it's still exotic to me.

Maybe it's just the geography that factors in. If I was in Europe I'd probably feel differently

I won't call French or Italian exotic though. They are more of romantic language (well, they are Romantic languages but I don't mean Romantic as in Roman).
German? Russian? Nah, not exotic.
But I do think Latino is exotic.

---------- Post added at 08:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:23 PM ----------

I'd argue that's because we came into history in the mid 20th century. That's really late compared to England, France or even Chinese, which heritage and civilization are already known since a long time ago. I'm still optimistic, though.

You have to find more samizdat books pre-Reformation era , I was really amazed when I discovered them for the first time, their words, their sentences are so in harmony and not cheap, like modern mainstream books these days. Laskar Pelangi is great, I agree with that.

---------- Post added at 08:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:20 PM ----------

Wait, I'm happy that I could turn the discussion in this thread into language class.

I can only be optimistic if only our people love our country more. Sadly, these days that's not the case.

I had headaches when I read Siti Nurbaya and stuffs.

 

[xi0]

Re: What a neverending debt.

I won't call French or Italian exotic though. They are more of romantic language (well, they are Romantic languages but I don't mean Romantic as in Roman).
German? Russian? Nah, not exotic.
But I do think Latino is exotic.

See, that's really interesting because it sort of flies in the face of the definition of the word "exotic". But I think a lot of people from here would still sort of agree on the German and Russian part. Not that your notion of exotic is only a colloquialism, but...I don't know, it's weird what can be considered exotic and what isn't. Like, I guess English is never considered as such because everyone seems to learn it, but by the literal definition it is, depending on where you live.

I agree on the German part because I think sometimes it sounds ugly, but I disagree on Russian. I think Russian is beautiful.

 

[phio_chan]

Re: What a neverending debt.

Hmm. Is that so. I'm a bit foreign to a grammar system such as German. I can only be good at English grammar just because I've learned it for more than ten years. Well, Indonesian, my mother language, is a language almost without grammar so... *shrug*

I heard that a lot. But if we are without grammar then how can people learn our language? Just too confusing where to start from.

I sometimes watch it in Youtube.

There is JTV on YT?! Oh, God.

Prof. Budi Darma.

Never heard.

Isn't a language that isn't in your face in daily life considered exotic by definition? I mean, the Spanish influence is all over the place here and in the south there's the addition of French...but even so, it's still exotic. I mean, you see Spanish everywhere here and we don't even have too large of a Latino population compared to other places in the US and it's still exotic to me.

Maybe it's just the geography that factors in. If I was in Europe I'd probably feel differently

Not really, I guess? Perhaps it's rather subjective as well, but if it's up to a level where it feels too strange then I don't think so. No offense to anyone of course, but for me Russian is an example.

Yeah. I still can't believe that our poets can be so romantic.

Haha. Indeed. When the elders are complaining, I defend myself by saying that at least I can speak and understand Chinese a bit.

I have no means of defense.

---------- Post added at 08:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:28 PM ----------

You have to find more samizdat books pre-Reformation era , I was really amazed when I discovered them for the first time, their words, their sentences are so in harmony and not cheap, like modern mainstream books these days. Laskar Pelangi is great, I agree with that.

Mm, I'm already occupied with textbooks (and *cough* manga *cough) so no thanks.

Wait, I'm happy that I could turn the discussion in this thread into language class.

Yeah, yeah. Take responsibility.

 

[xi0]

Re: What a neverending debt.

Not really, I guess? Perhaps it's rather objective as well, but if it's up to a level where it feels too strange then I don't think so. No offense to anyone of course, but for me Russian is an example.

I think you mean subjective? (Wow, I feel like yuki now )

Yeah, I guess "strange" is a good barometer for considering something exotic or not. Meaning, if it there isn't a sense of familiarity with it at all, it's chances of being seen as exotic are even higher. It sort of goes along with my example of English I guess

 

[yukihime03]

Re: What a neverending debt.

See, that's really interesting because it sort of flies in the face of the definition of the word "exotic". But I think a lot of people from here would still sort of agree on the German and Russian part. Not that your notion of exotic is only a colloquialism, but...I don't know, it's weird what can be considered exotic and what isn't. Like, I guess English is never considered as such because everyone seems to learn it, but by the literal definition it is, depending on where you live.

I agree on the German part because I think sometimes it sounds ugly, but I disagree on Russian. I think Russian is beautiful.

The definition of exotic is getting blurry.

I actually like German when it is used in songs. It sounds haunting. And though I don't consider it exotic, I still think Russian is beautiful though. I like some songs in Russian. I even go as far to learn how to pronounce some Russian words.

 

[phio_chan]

Re: What a neverending debt.

I think you mean subjective? (Wow, I feel like yuki now )

That's what I wrote.

Spoiler

Yeah, I guess "strange" is a good barometer for considering something exotic or not. Meaning, if it there isn't a sense of familiarity with it at all, it's chances of being seen as exotic are even higher. It sort of goes along with my example of English I guess

I still can't really get it when "strange" is used as a barometer, but perhaps it's the starting point of deciding something being exotic or not.

The definition of exotic is getting blurry.

I actually like German when it is used in songs. It sounds haunting. And though I don't consider it exotic, I still think Russian is beautiful though. I like some songs in Russian. I even go as far to learn how to pronounce some Russian words.

It's been blurry since the beginning.

Mm, I don't listen to many foreign songs anyway, so yeah... Oh, once, listened to a German song when I still learned it. Comment: confusing.

 

[xi0]

Re: What a neverending debt.

The definition of exotic is getting blurry.

I actually like German when it is used in songs. It sounds haunting. And though I don't consider it exotic, I still think Russian is beautiful though. I like some songs in Russian. I even go as far to learn how to pronounce some Russian words.

...I guess it is. I guess that might be due to the idea of the word being subjective, when the definition isn't. So weird.

Yeah I agree on the song part. And I don't know if it's the silly taboo of hearing angry Germans or not but it probably depends on different German accents as well, which I don't have a ton of knowledge on. It's interesting, because a former staffer here who is for Western Germany did a student exchange in Australia and she now has a very Australian-sounding accent when speaking English, even though she is German. If you're a foreigner, you'll hear American and British English a lot more than Australian, so that sort of short-term influence is fascinating to me. She would know exactly why and how that is, considering she studied linguistics though

And yeah, I guess I associated exotic and beautiful together for some reason...

 

[yukihime03]

Re: What a neverending debt.

I heard that a lot. But if we are without grammar then how can people learn our language? Just too confusing where to start from.

We do have a kind of basic grammar, but we don't actually use it in daily life. In practice, we defile the grammar as much as we want. That's why there is a great difference between formal Indonesian and informal Indonesian. No one use formal Indonesian except for people who learn Indonesian for the first time.

There is JTV on YT?! Oh, God.

Not the channel. But there are some JTV shows there.

Never heard.

He has an entry in English wikipedia: Budi Darma
I think that's really awesome.

I have no means of defense.

Oh well, thankfully, during my childhood I watch a lot of Chinese fighting(?) dramas.