Discussion Is Haki breaking the balance?

[Ninomiya]

some fruits give so much raw power, that even without mastering the fruit...
example, light fruit
you have a jedi throwing freaking laser beams its awesome more or less
while other fruits, like luffy need more creativity rather than just shooting elemental stuff

Your point is way out of proportion. I get what you're saying but it simply doesn't work for the examples you have given.
What on earth makes you think it was easy for Kizaru to perform a Raining Light beams, Light Saber, Free movement at the Speed of Light??
It is implied Kizaru has had his fruit for a similar amount of time that Sakazuki and Aokiji did, so he is likely to have had it for over 2 decades.

That alone tells you that the Light fruit is extremely hard to fine-tune and master.
I'm pretty sure if a random guy ate the Light fruit like Jango or Mr.9, they WOULD NOT be able to send light-kicks that cause massive explosions all whilst half-asleep.
Sure its a Hack fruit, but it is by no means easy to use.

Blackbeard has been studying how to use the Darkness fruit for a decade, so that's the only reason why he was able to use his quickly.
Do you think it didn't take any Creativity for Kizaru to focus his light energy into a beam that could reflect across mirrors neatly to help him practically teleport away?

Capone Bege's Fruit is unbelievably hack, yet his bounty was only 138mil.
Hack fruits don't ruin any balance in the series since Foxy has the Nero Nero beam which slows down time for 30 seconds.
Foxy sucks and is pathetic.
If we gave Zoro the fruit which can slow his enemies down by 30secs, then we have what is a borderline Admiral at a minimum on our hands.

ofc those people with their fighting spirit and clever mind find more delicate attacks
but in the end an avalanche of magna/ice or a rain of lightning/lasers is lethal, no matter how you look at it

The trick is, Aokiji, Kizaru and Akainu are in their 50s. So Oda has made it that all those with ridiculously hack fruits are people have been training with their fruits for many, many years.
This means that despite their Hack fruit, it is OBVIOUSLY difficult to be able to create a rain of Light, Magma or Ice since this is one of the best moves of people who have had the fruit for 2 decades
Law is the only young person with a ridiculously hack fruit, and he has had to train hard to get the fruit to this level.

 

[enmymiguel]

I think haki was the best shit oda come up it...cause luffy was never be able to hit smoker. And logia was soo overpower. Noting could hit then. But they could hit you. I mean oda would not make scuses about a logia user get hit and get beat..croco and enel...but dont worry cause logia also got haki. Cause if they dont. They would not be able to hit other logia user

---------- Post added at 08:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:31 PM ----------

Your point is way out of proportion. I get what you're saying but it simply doesn't work for the examples you have given.
What on earth makes you think it was easy for Kizaru to perform a Raining Light beams, Light Saber, Free movement at the Speed of Light??
It is implied Kizaru has had his fruit for a similar amount of time that Sakazuki and Aokiji did, so he is likely to have had it for over 2 decades.

That alone tells you that the Light fruit is extremely hard to fine-tune and master.
I'm pretty sure if a random guy ate the Light fruit like Jango or Mr.9, they WOULD NOT be able to send light-kicks that cause massive explosions all whilst half-asleep.
Sure its a Hack fruit, but it is by no means easy to use.

Blackbeard has been studying how to use the Darkness fruit for a decade, so that's the only reason why he was able to use his quickly.
Do you think it didn't take any Creativity for Kizaru to focus his light energy into a beam that could reflect across mirrors neatly to help him practically teleport away?

Capone Bege's Fruit is unbelievably hack, yet his bounty was only 138mil.
Hack fruits don't ruin any balance in the series since Foxy has the Nero Nero beam which slows down time for 30 seconds.
Foxy sucks and is pathetic.
If we gave Zoro the fruit which can slow his enemies down by 30secs, then we have what is a borderline Admiral at a minimum on our hands.


The trick is, Aokiji, Kizaru and Akainu are in their 50s. So Oda has made it that all those with ridiculously hack fruits are people have been training with their fruits for many, many years.
This means that despite their Hack fruit, it is OBVIOUSLY difficult to be able to create a rain of Light, Magma or Ice since this is one of the best moves of people who have had the fruit for 2 decades
Law is the only young person with a ridiculously hack fruit, and he has had to train hard to get the fruit to this level.

But zoro got a better devil fruit.. The badass badass no mi . Zoro make hes opponent freeze or lose they mind.....dont believe me. Ask monet or those guys from sab arc.

 

[uberfayt]

haki power makes sence and does not need to have any restrictions. Just think of the world of one piece as 3 stages: the first one is the 4 oceans, here you don't see many fruit users yet alone haki users, all the strong guys head for the second stage, the Grand line (first half). This is the place for ruthless pirates to make a name for themselves and most of them are DF users. And finally you have the new world where only a selected few can survive, and haki is a must, which means that from now on emphasis will be on haki rather than fruits power alone. It also means that now only logia users with haki could survive (as demonstrated with caribou who got his ass handed to him by pekoms).

 

[kkck]

I think a big part of the issue here is that basically anyone who has taken mastery of haki to a certain level will invariably be extremely strong. As only a hax character would be able to truly master haki it would naturally seem unfair to those with weaker or no haki. So luffy for instance would seem to be a hax enemy against anyone without haki... However the issue here is not that haki is impossible to fight, the issue here is that haki is in most cases a characteristic of the strong. So its not that haki is unbalanced, its just that the people with it will almost invariably be exceptional.

 

[Schabrak]

So its not that haki is unbalanced, its just that the people with it will almost invariably be exceptional.

If done right it would be a exponential curve up. Copy is one of those characters. All NW capable marine forces are within the VAs or admirals, so we won't see any suprises from that party. It's true that the NW is really a new world in every sense for those moving there from the Paradise.

 

[hoeru]

"Breaking" the balance?! It's actually reestablishing a balance by bringing back at least a chance to beat the all-mighty logia users if one isn't lucky enough to have "natural enemy" abilities.

 

[M3J]

Haki isn't breaking the balance, it's bringing back the balance by giving normal users and inferior devil's fruit users a way to fight back against logia and paramecia. Without haki, there's almost no way to hit logia users or damage paramecia users, and even those with haki can be fought against. Luffy managed to fight and best Hancock's sisters, did he not? Despite not having haki to combat their haki.

 

[joshua019]

Haki too OP, new meta. Oda please nerf!!!

jokes aside i think in the new world ppl ought to have some sort of ability to control haki.

 

[Anduren]

Haki too OP, new meta. Oda please nerf!!!

jokes aside i think in the new world ppl ought to have some sort of ability to control haki.

Since you said "jokes aside" I'm assuming you mean controlling other peoples' ability to control haki?

 

[joshua019]

Since you said "jokes aside" I'm assuming you mean controlling other peoples' ability to control haki?

I meant that all everyone in the new world should have haki, which is not the case. hence haki is not breaking the balance.

 

[Anduren]

I meant that all everyone in the new world should have haki, which is not the case. hence haki is not breaking the balance.

Thanks for the clarification... seems I misunderstood your statement. Though I have to say, based on the attendance at the Marineford War as well as at the Corrida Colosseum, it seems only the toughest of the New World Pirates can actually use haki. But still, considering that before entering the new world, the only places haki was shown to be used was Skypea and Amazon Lilly, its more common in the New World than around the rest of the One Piece World.... so yeah.

 

[Deus Machina]

IMO

The benefits of having Haki will vary and depend on the individual. Personally, I don't fell that much of a shift. The Haki concept just increases the fighting chances of the high tier fighters. This is especially the case for BH.

I mean Logia users are still too strong even after the introduction of Armament. For instance take the following attacks:

Spoiler

Spoiler

This are just some examples but all the Logias can still cause large scale damage attacks and BH isn't going to help stop any of this attacks. Haki just gives people who are skilled a chance. The scales are still tipped in the favour of a Logia.

The battle at MF is proof enough for me. WB pirates had it handed to them by three Logia fighters with the exception of Marco whose DF played a key role.

 

[kkck]

I would think large scale logia attacks are not actually inherent to the fruits but rather a result of training. Look at crocodile, he does not really use large scale attacks outside of his tornadoes. He does not attack with huge sand tsunamis or fists. Basically using a huge logia attack would require the user to be strong to begin with. I would think using a huge attack would be draining to your stamina and strength. Its not that being a logia made a difference (caribou is proof that it does not), its that the logia in question were that insanely strong. Haki allows for contact with logia but that alone was never the strength they had. Intangibility still has its purposes and allows for great mobility and generating an element is still exceptionally dangerous.

 

[Ninomiya]

This are just some examples but all the Logias can still cause large scale damage attacks and BH isn't going to help stop any of this attacks. Haki just gives people who are skilled a chance. The scales are still tipped in the favour of a Logia.

The battle at MF is proof enough for me. WB pirates had it handed to them by three Logia fighters with the exception of Marco whose DF played a key role. [/SIZE][/FONT]

This is a good point, but it wasn't just Marco.
You've managed to miss out Jozu who was able to fightback notably.
Logia's are stoppable as long you're strong enough and have trained your BH and the other Haki (can't remember the Japanese name for premonition?) strong enough you can stop Logia attempts.

I mean, the same attack that put a hole through Ace's chest, was stopped by Shanks without breaking a sweat.
Granted Shanks is a whole world or two above Ace, but all moves can be balanced out in this series.

Fans also look at the 3 Admiral Logia's completely wrong too imo.
Not only are Ice, Magma & Light amazing fruits, they were eaten by 3 AMAZING individuals.
That's the reason why the Fruits seem so hack. Its because they were eaten by literal tanks.

Proof of this is that Smoker and Enel have excellent Fruits.
Yet, whilst the Admirals were able to take finishing blows constantly, they simply got back up and destroyed those around them.
Smoker and Enel are very stoppable. They can't take multiple serious hits.

Lol do you think Akainu/Kizaru could ever lose to a Gomu Gomu combo from the weak Luffy in Part I?
Or the way Law handled Smoker, do you think Akainu/Kizaru could ever lose to that?
The Admirals are just beasts. They are strong beyond their DF's whereas Enel & Smoker were originally only strong due to their DF's.

 

[joshua019]

I would think large scale logia attacks are not actually inherent to the fruits but rather a result of training. Look at crocodile, he does not really use large scale attacks outside of his tornadoes. He does not attack with huge sand tsunamis or fists. Basically using a huge logia attack would require the user to be strong to begin with. I would think using a huge attack would be draining to your stamina and strength. Its not that being a logia made a difference (caribou is proof that it does not), its that the logia in question were that insanely strong. Haki allows for contact with logia but that alone was never the strength they had. Intangibility still has its purposes and allows for great mobility and generating an element is still exceptionally dangerous.

I completely agree with you! I think logia attacks should have some limitations based upon the skill of the user, I think the mera mera ability going to the next SH member will finaly clarify it for us.