Madara exhausted or not... Is not really relevant:
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/626/12
See? He does not get how. Hashirama was also exhausted... Now if he really got tricked because of the "exhausted" part he would have said so, Thing is he obviously did not say that, he just said "how the fuck that happen". Point is he can be tricked, it only needs to happen once... Then let's add the fact that Madara could not tell who the real Naruto is, I am sure you remember the event...
That entire fight Hashirama was HOLDING BACK and only by the end mustered up the stg to take him out... So add this fact to your list why the alliance would take him out.
Oh I see... Because Nagato could do it... He can... I like that logic... So let's give Naruto all the Futon tech in the world, Sasuke the ability to cast Izanagi and Izanagi since he has 1 tomoe and so on... Hell he had the sharingan so why not?
Sorry bub but... Its irrelevant if he has the tools to do it. You still need to prove he knows HOW to do it.
No, it's very relevant,
since Madara's ability to tell the clone apart from the real Hashirama was outright attributed to his Sharingan. So a Sharingan-less Madara being fooled means nothing when the acknowledgement involved his Sharingan.
Please, don't be ludicrous. There's a clear difference. We're talking about a doujutsu, and not once in the series has the previous owner of a doujutsu not possessed the power of their doujutsu. Now unless you can show an example in the series where a transfered doujutsu grant powers to the user that the previous user didn't have, then your argument is moot.
Assuming he would throw 1 meteor... If he does what you said and he needs to throw more... He NEEDS to sit still, not use his Susano or offence (no hands, no movement) and keep making handseals to keep throwing them.
Also I am sure he made more seals but Kishi stopped showing all the handseals for some time now.
No he doesn't. We outright saw that he can summon more then a single meteor at a single time, so there's no reason he would have to continuously wait around. And that doesn't matter, the fact remains that using the meteors is not the time-consuming endeavor you made it out to be.
The same reason why he used primitive, weak Susano's with the clones. That would be 1 reason my guess... Be creating clones and splitting his chakra his own chakra capacity decreases. Its like with Muu when he split in half. Obviously not on that level with Mokuton clones but still.
Those clones where stopped by 1 single shoot from Tsukisage. He could not do it faster as he was low on chakra... Right now with Kurama from N and M he would 1 shoot them, EASY.
Because he was playing around? That really doesn't help your argument against a Madara that is fighting seriously. And such a limit would be true of everyone, meaning your claims about Naruto and Hashirama would also be affected. And no, speed had nothing to do with the amount of chakra he had. That was all about him even being capable of that, which is moot here as previously mentioned. Onoki can't use such a trick in this situation, not in the middle of the Alliance forces fighting against Madara. The only way that could work is if everyone else ran away, and that would truly defeat you argument.
He did NOT had SM with Kurama mode... Man I love how you discard key element from the fight to support your argument... Madara did not even beat him, he slowed him down before Naruto saved Kakashi and Gai.
No, he didn't use Sage Mode with the Kyuubi Mode. He had it available. And whether he used it or not really doesn't affect my argument. Madara not only tanked a Bijuu Rasengan, but knocked him back like a child.
Regular bijudama... Regular bub... Now SM powered bijudama... I don't think so... Naruto and Minato with a SM rasengan could blast trough that super black shield. I don't care what Madara's Susano is its not more powerful then the sages shield. A bijudama would blast even Juubito.
A regular Bijuu Blast from the
complete Kyuubi, making it half as strong. And no, they didn't.
They caused it to strain, but never broke through, instead getting knocked back.
Like the fact that he could have went trough defenses from the sage himself? Like lol... You think Madara's Susano can tank blasts from Bijudama's from 5 biju's and ugraded with SM? Please provide it.
We outright saw Madara's Susanoo tank the
complete Kyuubi's blast. Now unless you can prove that a Bijuu Blast from the Kyuubi enhanced by Sage Mode is equal to, much less more powerful, your argument doesn't work.
Before the real one bud, the real one... There is no reason to believe Hashirama's clones can't hand with Madara's clones... More when they are powered by Naruto's (and Minato's) mojo.
a dozen + Hashirama's + SM clones + whatever the rest of peeps can provide is MORE then enough.
Except for the fact that Madara's clones possess the power of Hashirama's clones in addition to Madara's power. The Kyuubi's chakra is moot against the power of the Rinnegan and Mokuton.
Madara, alone without using anything but his Sharingan, took on a few thousand ninjas along with three Kage-level ninjas. He took down the Gokages over three times, when not even fighting seriously. Hashirama is the only threat, and even that doesn't seem as if it will be enough considering he now needs help fighting Madara.
lol... That was not a midless puppet, not in the real sense of the word... It was Kabuto doing the fighting trough Nagato. It was like Kabuto had the rinnegan... Nagato instantly absorbed shit and transformed his body and use ST and used BT like before. The fact that he was mindless is completely irrelevant. He proved to use jutsus just like before... Now for you to win an argument you are telling me "he could do them ALL like before but not this". Evidence to support this is needed as I have evidence that he CAN use jutsus like before. EVEN CT ffs....
YOU need to prove Madara knows how to perform different jutsus... Its irrelevant if he has the same eyes. Sasuke's has Itachi eyes but can he do Izanami? Izanagi? Tsukiomi (full one, time control)? I don't think so bub... Prove it.
No, Kabuto wasn't doing any of the fighting. If that was the case, then that would have meant he was doing the fighting with the Sandaime Raikage against Naruto, and running around as that one Mist ninja. And the entire point is that Nagato there was a flawed version of the real one, a point pointed out.
No, I don't. Series logic states he can. You are the one who needs to prove and show that someone who formerly had a doujutsu lack it's abilities. And Sasuke having Itachi's eyes has nothing to do with Izanami and Izanagi. And there is nothing to suggest at all that Sasuke can't use any of those abilities. Unless you can show where it was stated or shown that he was incapable of using any of them, your argument fails.
Yes we did... Oonoki blew up 25 Madara's with Susano and smashed HALF of the original's body in 1 single blast... Now that was a small one compared to "blow up islands" as he was almost out of chakra...
What you are ignoring (obviously as it ruins your arugment) is the insane powerup they would get with Naruto's chakra... If you use Oonoki and him alone and he is a huge powerup... Gaara can provide huge AOE defense and offense...
I am not overestimating shit. Kakashi whent from warping a man to warping a biju after he got just a bit of chakra, not even visible ... After that he got more then that some 3 times (Minato's powerup included)...
Aside from the fact that it wasn't "a small one" because he was drawing on Tsunade's chakra to use it, that doesn't change the argument at all. Using the inprefect Susanoo's and a Susanoo-less Madara as some sort of example against prefect Susanoo just doesn't work. And as previously mentioned, such an argument requires Madara and his clones to all be on their own. It would be impossible to use such a trick in the current situation, with Madara fighting the Alliance.
You are overestimating it. Warping a Bijuu is not a major upgrade, as that's the default strength of kamui shown by Obito. And how about the fact that the next time the Kyuubi gave Kakashi chakra, he was only able to use Kamui twice on himself before using it up. Or how about the fact that Naruto, with the whole Kyuubi availible to him, still ran out of chakra after a few techniques? This assumption, that despite all the techniques they already used, that the Alliance would still be capable of going on to use a bunch more costly techniques without running out is silly, especially since Naruto and his cloak form as a set time limit.
It will not be? Why?
Mokuton is not instant, it needs handseals... Madara is going to have a lot of people on his arse. He was overwhelmed before using rinnegan by a clone of Naruto, Gaara and Tsuck (+fodder...).
Naruto is balancing Kurama's chakra to create senjutsu, is how it works. Assuming a ton of chakra would not be snejutsu it would destabilize the crap. Going by what Pa said you need to have everything in balance. A ton of chakra from Kurama should brake SM.
Using Mokuton does not take but a moment, far shorter then building up a large Bijuu Blast. And how exactly is a non-seriously Madara using the riblet Susanoo being overwhelmed?
And? Naruto clearly has everything balance, in order for him to use Sage Mode with the Kyuubi cloak, which as we know, means that he's using the Kyuubi's chakra while the Kyuubi holds onto his chakra.
If Juubito's black shield can't then GL proving ST can. Even a Kurama-SM powered Rasengan from Naruto and Minato broke trough (even if they were sent back to).
Shinra Tensei isn't a physical force, there's nothing to break. And no, they didn;t break through.
Right... Because they are not inside super shields like Kurama mode and Susano mode... Oh w8...
The Kyuubi cloak doesn't block attacks. And while Susanoo can likely block it, that only means the real Naruto and Sasuke can't be hit. It really doesn't help against a lone Naruto or Hashirama or anyone else.
You mean like having the alliance ported away instantly or protected behing shields (Kurama, Susano, Mokuton from Hashirama, Gaara's sand, moutains from Tsukisage and so on)?
Madara has no need to be that generous... The ground itself would get carved out. It does not matter if he is under or above... Thing is he is going to be inside Susano if he feels like fighting here...
So you're gonna presume that their protections would protect them, and yet presume that Madara's protection would not be enough to protect him, despite him having just as many defenses? And where could they teleport? Unless they teleport away from the battlefield, they can't go anywhere safe. And the ground would not be carved out, not in that way.
lol? I hope were not assuming I was referring to hide inside a building from fallout... I was obviously referring to the explosion itself. For that you need bunkers...
Or a bomb shelter, which many homes could have...
They defeated him, clear and simple. He popped the tree after his most powerful defense failed (the black crap). Then he used some SUPER SHIELD IN FRONT and the SAGES SWORD... Both failed before Naruto/Sasuke's power combined.
No they didn't, otherwise that would have been the end of it. Not only by the fact that he survived, but because it was shown they couldn't get through, makes that moot. And he didn't use the same shield at the end.
That is because he needs direct contact with the object. He can get to the meteor EASY considering the number of people that can fly, even Sasuke's hawk.
Um, only two people can fly, and only one without a summoning. And as asked before, where exactly would he teleport it?
Dude he could only brake its neck because that is BEFORE he got chakra form Naruto/Kurama... This is the first time he got it:
http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/609/9
Its CHAPTERS later man... This is also the first bit of chakra, not even visible he got... He whent from a human to a biju... That chakra has ben increased over and OVER both in potency and in quantity...
The meteor is bigger, thin is Kakashi got a ton more power from following infusion after warping a biju... All he needs to do is open a rift in front of the meteor and look at it going in rofl...
And? The claim you gave was that he was capable of teleporting something huge before being enhanced by the Kyuubi chakra, and thus he would be able to get the meteor because the Kyuubi chakra was a major upgrade. The fact is that he didn't start teleporting bigger things til after he got refreshed by the Kyuubi, making the idea that he would get some massive upgrade silly.
Naruto is what? JUST LOL... He ha Sasuke there, he has Hashirama and a ton other people to tangle with the dragon to keep it off of him... This is assuming you are somehow forgetting Naruto's Susano is covered in Susano so no dice... Why do you keep forgetting that part I wonder... The most powerful shit out there, Susano-Kurama...
Madara would be effected in the same way as Obito. SM attacks's weakness just meant that attack can hit him... I don't even see how this is relevant.
And? None of those thing would stop the Wooden Dragons from absorbing the Kyuubi's chakra, since according to your argument, everyone will be using it.
That doesn't work here, when we're discussing
logical fighting. Obito wouldn't have lost had he actually fought logically too.
And you see Rasengan's bigger and smaller in SM... How the hell is that relevant? The fact that Kishi forget's Naruto has bigger bijudama's? Yes, granted...
Let me show you how you compare this, Rasengan with no SM:
http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/645/9
With SM:
http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/645/10
Do the same with Flashdama. By the above evidence its clear it would increase from 2,5 to 3 times as bigger.
The Rasengan is smaller because it was only from Minato. Of course it would be bigger when don eby two people instead of one. That's not the case with the Bijuu Blast, and as I showed, it wouldn't be that much bigger then the normal Bijuu Blast.
Get close to Hashirama with Mokuton? Are you serious? I am sure he can pop some himself and counter... Hell he is going to be up high on his summons.
That seems unlikely if he's using the Kyuubi's chakra, at least in the sense that his own Mokuton wouldn't negate the Kyuubi chakra itself. Anyway, Hashirama using Mokuton wouldn't necessarily counter Madara's Mokuton, it's not as if Mokuton is it's own weakness.
lol... The rest are moon... Just rofl and facepalm... The rest who could stop somebody with the sages power.
What? Please, show me where the rest of the Alliance stopped Obito. Heck, show me where they were even a threat to him.
Obito was using rods, the Mazo, chains and special abilities... Its not a genjutsu. You can be my guess and show me where anybody used the same power used on Kurama to control any other biju.
If Obito could control jins by looking at them Naruto and Bee would be long gone...
Now again show me where anybody did what you are saing.
We outright see
Obito take control of the Gobi with his Sharingan, with it literally stating that it got taken control of. The chains don't control a Bijuu, only restrains them, as we saw with Kushina. Not only that,
but Madara outright stated that the Bijuus were slaves, not merely the Kyuubi.
This entire fight is what? 10 minutes in the making? even you said so in some post when somebody asked how long it lasted lol...
As for current situation... I am sure today we can see it.
Which is exactly why I said Naruto should be beyond his limit. It is far beyond time for him to have run out, especially since he had previously been drained by the Shinju roots.
