Shounen Naruto by Masashi Kishimoto

Schabrak

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That's the ONLY reason I continue to read. I've been with Naruto for about 8 years and want to see it end(ASAP).
It's the 12 year anniversary this november, have lost the big interest a couple years ago though, due to plot as well as the mess in the Naruto discussions back than. Some of those were really aweful to read. :3c
 

KingOfNight

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Don't you mean the 14th year anniversary?
 

M3J

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Those were not ancient times, it was during the current arc that Naruto lost it's 'poster' base, the bad story is definitely one major reason. We shouldn't forget the users themselves though too. Most of us are people who have grown up with DB, OP, Naruto etc,, most of us are in the mid-twenties, finishing school/college, so the may lose focus and move on to other important things. Certainly not impossible to still participate in discussions, but there is more than one reason to stay away too.
The forum was slowly losing some Naruto posters, but it wasn't until war arc kept going that more people either stopped posting or left. jdw himself has said that his posts were infrequent because the chapters weren't good or barely had anything to talk about.

I don't think there's really an excuse given that it takes no more than a minute to post one's opinion. i think people just don't want to talk about Naruto given how bad the arc has been.
 

Roman

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The perfect example of someone leaving the forum because of mildly obnoxious posts by posters who think they know better about the story than Kishimoto himself is the new theory topic about Naruto and Rikudou connection. The guy posted his detailed theory and the responses are written in the fashion as they know what the fuck is actually going on and dismiss their statements as true ones despite them being on the same factual level as his theory. And that's not the first topic either with similar shitty responses. If we can put a "posters" as one of the reasons, I'm sure backing it up.
 

M3J

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That reaction is no different when people say Sasuke or Shikamaru will become a hokage or Naruto is a bad hokage. Plus, given the history with the OP, some will not react positively to most of the things he says, especially with the past posts he's made. No one side is guilty, if "posters" are to be blamed.
 

Roman

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Why does the profile of the poster matter? He made an awesome contribution to the forum of actually discussing something. Posting your opinion on the matter, usual bashing and stating your dogmatic opinion as truth despite it not being so are 3 different things. And only the first one contributes tot he healthy, enjoyable discussion. I'm sure a lot of people miss that and here on Naruto forum, that's practically non-existent.
 

M3J

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Where have I bashed anyone? Why not point out when so6pww accused nearly everyone in Chapter Discussion of saying/wanting Sasuke to singlehandedly win the war or beat Tobi when in fact, no one said that? That has happened before, and few posters can back me up. Or when SupremeMod accuses anyone who defends Sasuke or doesn't side with Naruto as being Uchiha fanboy or Sasuke fanboy when it's not true? Or when you get very heated when debating with someone, whether with Prince Sasuke or ninjabot? You're not helping matters either.

How's it any different from you or someone else stating your opinion as truth, which you do? How's it any different from you saying "Naruto is part of Kyuubi's power whether you like it or not?" Again, the problem doesn't come from what he says, but how he says it, just like it would for anyone else.
 

Rikudou King

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The perfect example of someone leaving the forum because of mildly obnoxious posts by posters who think they know better about the story than Kishimoto himself is the new theory topic about Naruto and Rikudou connection. The guy posted his detailed theory and the responses are written in the fashion as they know what the fuck is actually going on and dismiss their statements as true ones despite them being on the same factual level as his theory. And that's not the first topic either with similar shitty responses. If we can put a "posters" as one of the reasons, I'm sure backing it up.
Mildy obnoxious? So using examples and evidence from the series itself to point out that it's nothing new and in no way connected to the Rikudou Sennin is knowing better then Kishi? That's not how it works. The side with actual evidence can make true statements, because they are making true statements. Until it's shown how telepathy is suppose to be connected to the Rikudou Sennin or how it has anything to do with the whole Shinju/Juubi/chakra thing that Kishi has established as the source of the Rikudou Sennin's power, then it isn't on the same level as actual evidence from the series.
 

jaymizzo

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Mildy obnoxious? So using examples and evidence from the series itself to point out that it's nothing new and in no way connected to the Rikudou Sennin is knowing better then Kishi? That's not how it works. The side with actual evidence can make true statements, because they are making true statements. Until it's shown how telepathy is suppose to be connected to the Rikudou Sennin or how it has anything to do with the whole Shinju/Juubi/chakra thing that Kishi has established as the source of the Rikudou Sennin's power, then it isn't on the same level as actual evidence from the series.
Not to prolong this argument/debate/exchange between you lot but there was literally no evidence disputing anything he said. What he posted and what else was posted were completely different things and he explained why (which is pretty clear if you pay close attention).

As for the question he posed, it is open for discussion seeing as no one on here knows what the secret of Ninjutsu is. Dismissing his idea or opinion because one believes they are right and know more than the other is pretty ignorant. He brought up some interesting points and they should have been discussed as such, not as a "out of the blue" crack pot theory. Not accusing any of you of such but thats the way the thread felt when I was reading it.

Happened to me in the One Piece forum when I started reading One Piece, people who have been reading the series for longer than I had believed they knew more than I do and their opinion counted more than mine, making them "right" and me "wrong".

Its not just this forum but a lot of forums too, like Roman said; posters do play a part in why some people would visit less frequently and shy away from voicing their opinions. No should be pointing fingers but its general knowledge that know it alls generally ruin others experience i.e. Not just limited to that thread as M3J implied, there are guilty parties everywhere and no one is truly a saint.

The story though plays a much bigger part, even people who did not post back then still did so once in a while to compliment a chapter or add a little bit into the discussion, its not happening as often now. Remember how fast the Hangout thread used to fill up? Its like a ghost town half the time in here. And the Naruto section has come down to being a hangout spot for the same posters (I can almost predict who is going to post when and about what). Hell, look at the Arena thread, that gives you a clear picture of who are the frequents and who arent.

But yeh, lets just all agree on the Manga being shit atm, before this turns out into a full on flame war (which again will be fought among the same posters that frequent this section) :3c
 

Rikudou King

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Well it wasn't clear to me (the connection between the telepathy and Rikudou Sennin), so if you could explain that to me...

Saying no one knows implies that the idea that ninjutsu has a secret has been mentioned before in the series, and as far as I can recall, that isn't the case. And how was anyone dismissing it? People pointed out either perceived flaws in the theory or examples showing it's nothing really new. Isn't that how discussions are suppose to work? Back and forth talking. It's not as if people came in, said that he was wrong, and ended it at that. No one insulted him or his theory. The idea that everyone has to like and accept any claim makes no sense, nor would it lead to any kind of discussion like that. I don't see why disagreeing with something, and explaining why one disagrees in a civil way, is being considered being dismissive and obnoxious.
 

Schabrak

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Happened to me in the One Piece forum when I started reading One Piece, people who have been reading the series for longer than I had believed they knew more than I do and their opinion counted more than mine, making them "right" and me "wrong".
At times/the beginning I was/we were IIRC. :P
 

$nipe

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The forum was slowly losing some Naruto posters, but it wasn't until war arc kept going that more people either stopped posting or left. jdw himself has said that his posts were infrequent because the chapters weren't good or barely had anything to talk about.

I don't think there's really an excuse given that it takes no more than a minute to post one's opinion. i think people just don't want to talk about Naruto given how bad the arc has been.
I thought jdw was banned or something, hence he stopped posting.

Also, Facebook has been a forum killer for the past few years. It's slowly taking over the online attention span of most people. I think the recession on boards of all kinds, blogs and p2p sites have taken a big hit regarding how people participate online nowadays.
 
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jaymizzo

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At times/the beginning I was/we were IIRC. :P
Its all water under the bridge, nothing personal and you weren't the only one. Simply emphasising that no one is a saint and its really not the major reason why people on the Naruto section post less frequently.

Unless of course, I completely misinterpreted your point and you are implying that you were right and i was wrong :3c

---------- Post added at 08:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:29 PM ----------

Well it wasn't clear to me (the connection between the telepathy and Rikudou Sennin), so if you could explain that to me...

Saying no one knows implies that the idea that ninjutsu has a secret has been mentioned before in the series, and as far as I can recall, that isn't the case. And how was anyone dismissing it? People pointed out either perceived flaws in the theory or examples showing it's nothing really new. Isn't that how discussions are suppose to work? Back and forth talking. It's not as if people came in, said that he was wrong, and ended it at that. No one insulted him or his theory. The idea that everyone has to like and accept any claim makes no sense, nor would it lead to any kind of discussion like that. I don't see why disagreeing with something, and explaining why one disagrees in a civil way, is being considered being dismissive and obnoxious.
You can always reread, the difference in what he said and what was posted is there, plastered on the thread.

I am not saying he/she was able to provide concrete evidence of what he was claiming, however he managed to compile a decent set of panels that supported his argument. When others posted similarities he/she explained the difference and thats why I said there was nothing suggesting what he said was wrong seeing as he explained himself and why those other examples/flaws do not stick.

I did not imply that you have to accept nor agree with his claim. It is an opinion of his and if you disagree simply discuss about it, do not dismiss it simply because you believe it is wrong (again, not talking about you, speaking in general). The evidence that was provided (starting to sound like a broken record here) was explained by him as to why it does not relate to what he claims.

And it does not have to be mentioned in the Manga for one to assume such. He can believe that there is a secret to ninjutsu and provide evidence of what led him to such a conclusion.

You are taking this personally. I am not pointing fingers nor do I intend to.
 

M3J

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I thought jdw was banned or something, hence he stopped posting.

Also, Facebook has been a forum killer for the past few years. It's slowly taking over the online attention span of most people. I think the recession on boards of all kinds, blogs and p2p sites have taken a big hit regarding how people participate online nowadays.
He wasn't banned, I still remember [user]jdw[/user] saying that his activity is very low because of the chapters itself. Could be something else now, might still be the same reason.

I'm not sure if Facebook is the reason why. A lot of the forum activity came from discussing spoiler. We had at least two days to discuss the spoilers and theorize, and then the chapters usually came out on Thursday night EST if we were lucky or Friday. Without spoilers, and chapters not being universally popular, the decreased activity makes sense.

Also, profile of poster does usually matter (at Roman). Few think of me as a Naruto hater/Sasuke fan though it's the opposite, so those who like Naruto or hate Sasuke will be more rude towards me. It's just as how some are rude towards so6pww because he's constantly been rude to others first, even calling them names. It's with that bias I argue with him, if it comes to that.
 

$nipe

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Another side reason is the anime. Anime went into a downward spiral of terrible quality, and many posters who became interested in the manga had hopes to see their favorite chapters animated. The depressive state of the fanbase after a lot of let downs also cooled off the hype over time with the series.

So you have:

A story that's not living up to expectations from the readers + storyline dragging + repetitive storytelling (due to the former) + no hopes of watching the anime =
 

Rikudou King

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You can always reread, the difference in what he said and what was posted is there, plastered on the thread.

I am not saying he/she was able to provide concrete evidence of what he was claiming, however he managed to compile a decent set of panels that supported his argument. When others posted similarities he/she explained the difference and thats why I said there was nothing suggesting what he said was wrong seeing as he explained himself and why those other examples/flaws do not stick.

I did not imply that you have to accept nor agree with his claim. It is an opinion of his and if you disagree simply discuss about it, do not dismiss it simply because you believe it is wrong (again, not talking about you, speaking in general). The evidence that was provided (starting to sound like a broken record here) was explained by him as to why it does not relate to what he claims.

And it does not have to be mentioned in the Manga for one to assume such. He can believe that there is a secret to ninjutsu and provide evidence of what led him to such a conclusion.

You are taking this personally. I am not pointing fingers nor do I intend to.
I've reread it three times now (the first time he posted it, the second time when I responded to him, and then a third time now after you brough up not understanding it. I'm still coming to the same conclusion.

I'm not gonna get into whether the others examples stick or not, as I already made my own position on that apparent, but he hasn't provided any explanation as to what the Rikudou Sennin has to do with it, which is my main issue with the theory. If the secret of ninjutsu is something he believes exist, that's something he should mention. Unless I missed it...

I was talking in general about the dismissals. I rechecked the thread before I responded to you before, adn I couldn't really see any post I would call dismissive or such. One or two I can see as being taken as assertive in their opinion, but nothing I would consider bad or supercilious. Trust me, I'm not taking anything personal. I'm just trying to figure out why some dislike the discussion going on over there, when as far as I can see it's one of the few respectful discussions going on at the moment, which everyone seems to agree we need more of.
 

KingOfNight

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As for the question he posed, it is open for discussion seeing as no one on here knows what the secret of Ninjutsu is. Dismissing his idea or opinion because one believes they are right and know more than the other is pretty ignorant. He brought up some interesting points and they should have been discussed as such, not as a "out of the blue" crack pot theory. Not accusing any of you of such but thats the way the thread felt when I was reading it.
You would be right had his posts not been like this :
I don't know why the level of denial is so great when a question or feat related to Naruto is being discussed.
He's continuously making it sound as if it's an unarguable fact and that anyone who denies it is just hating on Naruto. That's not the kind of tone one would usually take when offering his theory...his very far fetched theory.
 

Roman

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Mildy obnoxious? So using examples and evidence from the series itself to point out that it's nothing new and in no way connected to the Rikudou Sennin is knowing better then Kishi? That's not how it works. The side with actual evidence can make true statements, because they are making true statements. Until it's shown how telepathy is suppose to be connected to the Rikudou Sennin or how it has anything to do with the whole Shinju/Juubi/chakra thing that Kishi has established as the source of the Rikudou Sennin's power, then it isn't on the same level as actual evidence from the series.
YOu're not using evidence at all. You're using your own understanding of manga which may or may not be true. It's the same for him and that's why your level of factual comprehension is the same as his theory. That is all.
 

Schabrak

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What was the last discussion you, RK, M3J and I had? The one about chakra control, at first I was supporting you, but with time you started to make a statements like 'Kishimoto was the one writing the manga, therefore his way of showing things had to be right, our opinions/arguments weren't worth as much' or something in that direction. And that's where we're losing support. Who gives a f what Kishi writes when it doesn't make sense, he isn't unfailable, he is open to critique, harsh as well as positive ones.
 

Roman

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You weren't supporting me, you were supporting Naruto as a character shown by the manga. Also, that doesn't have anything to do with making one's theory fallible. If we don't know squat about a character such as Rikudou, why would anything be wrong about him, until we know for sure? It's a discussion, not proving who's wrong or right, since no one can be wrong or right at this time.
 
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