Discussion Detailed Power Ranking and commentaries

[zelllogan]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

I have a heart attack just reading how much Hancock is underestimated.
King's haki, No one ever hurt her so far in the manga, strong legs & I'm not even talking about her devil fruit...
Law, Moriah, Crocodile, Jinbei & Buggy are clearly behind her.

 

[Jabman]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

Please post more reasoning and arguments and not just lists with names.

ah my bad my bad.



1 - Mihawk - Basing this on what we've seen of him so far and how much we've seen. His strength is still very secretive. Oda has not shown him break a sweat to this date. He has that aura about him that says he's among the strongest in one piece and it has nothing to do with devil fruits. That right there renders half of Black bears ability useless against him. Which is why I think Mihawk is number 1.

2 - Blackbeard

3 - Doflamingo
His ability mostly. We don't know what the extent of his puppeteer trick is. Also the ease in which he took out Law. Sure Fujitora gave him one hell of a scolding last chapter lol. DD is still among the most powerful and its going to be interesting to see how luffy deals with him.

4 - Kuma
Underestimated imo. I think due to the fake Cyborg kuma's that were made the real kuma is underestimated. Guarding thesunny for 2 years is not an easy task. It is almost down right impossible. Also his ability + speed are a deadly combo.

5 - Law
His ability is most of his strength but also his intelect. He finished off vergo who would have defeated sanji and almost broke his leg. Vergo who easily slapped smoker around.

6 - Jinbei
He has the sea as a handycap for others to aid him. Also his brut strength.

7 - Crocodile
Honestly, him, Jinbei, and law are very close in power imo.

8 - hancock
Meh, no one really took her seriously in a fight.

9 - Moria
Seems like he'd be easy to take care of post time skip.

10 - buggy
Managed to stay alive thus far.

 

[HereNThere]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

Mihawk: This is mostly going off of hype seeing as how we've no seen much, but I'm of the opinion he's in the same class as the Yonkou and Admirals. I'm not sure how he feels about most of them seeing as he hasn't interacted with any, but judging from his history with Shanks and the many parallels Oda has shown between them, I think that's what it is building up to.

Donquixote: He has dominated this entire arc in terms of both power and influence. He hasn't shown any fear towards the Admirals, brushing of Aokiji's ice and going as far as to threaten Fujitora, but he is quite afraid of Kaido and it's been said multiple times that he would get stomped if they were to ever face off. I'm curious if he feels the same about the other Yonkou though. If he doesn't, then I would like to assume he is also somewhat near Yonkou levels. Also he has Conqueror's haki which is quite awesome to have.

Kuma: His Devil Fruit alone makes him a force to be reckoned with and if we add his cybernetics to the equation, he is nearly unstoppable. I'm sure he has plenty of other tricks to reveal in the near future.

Boa: She shares the same rank as Kuma, although she is fourth on the list. Conqueror's haki, an entire island/crew of fighters, a very effective and powerful fruit, and her beauty, which itself is a very effective tool. I'd say she has plenty of potential and the tools to become a Yonkou if she wasn't a Shichibukai.

Blackbeard: Very strong body. Even stronger fruit abilities. Stupid as hell and would have been dead had it not been for the help of other people. Seriously though, he is lucky to have made it as far as he has.

The next 3 share the same rank.

Crocoboy: Incredible mastery over his abilities. Great amount of experience and intellect. Pretty much killed Luffy every time, including the third. Luffy lucked up on the antidote. The only thing missing is a demonstration of Haki. Unfortunately, like Ace, he was introduced before the concept was really pushed, giving him quite the handicap down the line. Clashed with Mihawk and Donquixote and actually talked down to them.

Jinbe: Incredible mastery of Fishman Karate. Has a great amount of experience. He doesn't fear the Admiral's either and was able to take a blow from Akainu and continue to fight. In the water, he could be up there with Boa.

Law: Incredible mastery of his abilities, though, unlike the last two, he lacks the experience. He makes up for it with his cunning and guile. His is also quite adept with haki, managing to overpower Vergo, who, thus far, is the most skilled haki user we've seen.

Moriah: Great ability with tons of potential. Unfortunately his mind and his body have long since degraded. He was obviously powerful enough to "rival" Kaido at one point in time (so it was said anyway), meaning that he lost a ton of power over the years. And he too is a casualty of the pre-haki days. I'm curious to see if he shaped up over the last two years.

Buggy: Do I really need to say anything?

 

[hokageji]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

1. Blackbeard (former)

He is a yonkou, beat Ace, has two DF and scarred Shanks. Shanks clearly thinks blackbeard is strong enough that WB must stop chasing him, he is certainly the strongest shichibukai.


2. Dracule Mihawk
world's strongest swordsmen, could dual with Shanks

3. Don Quixote DoFlamingo

Conqueror's Haki. Strong DF ability and strong enough to beat 2 known shichibukais, Law and Moria

4. Hancock
Considering how perverted the world is, and that most of the strong are men, she would be impossible to beat. To top that, great haki strength and conqueror's haki

5. Jimbei
Jimbei can use the waters without being worried of anything, add that with water vapor punches and fishmen karate, he becomes a formidable opponent. we know that he is atleast, as strong as Ace.

6.Kuma
Strengths would include amazing DF ability, Kizaru like Lazer and a cyborg body. He can probably be placed among Jimbei, but I wouldn't rank him higher since he hasn't shown any Haki ability yet.
Besides that, he is just a government puppet

7. Moria
Moria is the most underestimated shichibukai. I would place him higher than Trafalgar Law simply because of his ability to steal shadows, increase power and swap positions. With his escape from DoFlamingo, we also know that there is more to his ability. Brick Bat and the shadow arrow that pierced Oars Jr were good examples of his power strengths

8. Trafalgar Law
Yes, the coolest ability we have seen, great Haki power but we only seen him really fight with Vergo. I personally think Moria is stronger than Law. While this is highly debatable, Moria's ability can create an army of Zombies, something Law's ability cannot cancel out.

9. Crocodile

While I personally think he can beat the 3 shichibukai's mentioned above, he hasn't demonstrated Haki.

10. Buggy

Well, someone has to finish last...

 

[zelllogan]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

8 - hancock
Meh, no one really took her seriously in a fight.

It's just the opposite. No one was strong enough for her to be serious. A smoker was just fodder in front of her. A pacifista ... correction, all pacisfista were fodder. In the war, if the pacifista had a very limited impact, it was due to her.

 

[Impossibility]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

Saying beating logias is all the same isnt right at all. Smokers fruit is a supporting and defensiv logia with nearly no potential on the offense. Crocs fruit on the other hand... he can dry you out in just a few seconds and switch the ground to dust and sand, which he can control. Also dont forget his sandsword. Law can switch metalblades and such things, but not a slash out of tousands of sandparticles.

It's simply the ability. If his ability is able to overcome Smoker's intangibility, there isn't any indication that it wouldn't overcome Croc's. Croc is even more susceptible because his logia has a glaring weakness than anyone can take advantage of. That wasn't a comment on a match-up, it was a comment on the specific applicability of Law's skillset.

 

[Josef]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

I think the case with Boa, and probably many Shichibukai is they are sometimes ranked based on their bounties, which can not be a really measure of power. Law has a "higher" bounty than DD, but now if the Shichi are gone, Dofla's might raise to 500 mil berry easily. And Hancock does not give a shit sailing and stuff, she is in her own kingdom ... and just chilling, if she took to sea things might get messy.

 

[Jabman]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

It's just the opposite. No one was strong enough for her to be serious. A smoker was just fodder in front of her. A pacifista ... correction, all pacisfista were fodder. In the war, if the pacifista had a very limited impact, it was due to her.

Perhaps you're right. That said I would still keep her as my number 8. Just a much stronger number 8.

 

[floman]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

Perhaps you're right. That said I would still keep her as my number 8. Just a much stronger number 8.

I agree with your original point. It's easy to beat an enemy that is not defending themselves. It's like when luffy got the crap beaten out of him by bellamy. He was bleeding and injured but when he attacked bellamy couldn't do a thing.

I think that Hancock would be even with a pacifista that was trying to actually hurt her not better.

 

[Spam286]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

I agree with your original point. It's easy to beat an enemy that is not defending themselves. It's like when luffy got the crap beaten out of him by bellamy. He was bleeding and injured but when he attacked bellamy couldn't do a thing.

I think that Hancock would be even with a pacifista that was trying to actually hurt her not better.

That's sort of impossible to substantiate, and it's a pretty conservative estimate given that most of the strength of the pacifista is the fact that it's physically tough. Even though they weren't defending themselves she was still kicking chunks off them. IIRC, she removed half of one's head with a single kick. They don't exactly move fast, so I would question what you think a pacifista could do against her? So long as she could dodge their lasers she'd be fine, and given she's a CoA and CoC user it's fair to assume she can use CoO as well, probably well enough to dodge lasers like post TS Luffy did.

 

[sameel]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

I think hancock is a high ranking shichibukai as long as she is fighting a guy. Is that petrification no jutsu aplicable on women as well?

 

[Spam286]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

I think hancock is a high ranking shichibukai as long as she is fighting a guy. Is that petrification no jutsu aplicable on women as well?

Worked on Marguerite and co. on Amazon Lily. Chances are it'll work on most other women too, given the nature of it. Hancock's beauty is supposed to transcend gender. Besides, the world of OP pirates is apparently 90% men anyway. Marines too.

 

[DutchPhoenix]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

BB currently below mihawk, in future he will be above mihawk, when he kills shanks and grows even more

 

[floman]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

That's sort of impossible to substantiate, and it's a pretty conservative estimate given that most of the strength of the pacifista is the fact that it's physically tough. Even though they weren't defending themselves she was still kicking chunks off them. IIRC, she removed half of one's head with a single kick. They don't exactly move fast, so I would question what you think a pacifista could do against her? So long as she could dodge their lasers she'd be fine, and given she's a CoA and CoC user it's fair to assume she can use CoO as well, probably well enough to dodge lasers like post TS Luffy did.

You are right in the fact that it's impossible to substantiate. Also Luffy's CoO was developed by Rayleigh the Dark King, I'm sure not everyone with CoO would be able to dodge the lasers and as stated in the manga some people hone in on one type of haki as the one they are best at.

Furthermore her motivation at the time was the protection of Luffy. She even said she had never felt feelings this strong. That does not mean that her strength at other times (most fights) would be the same. Hormone injected Luffy was much stronger than normal Luffy thus emotion motivated Hancock would be stronger than normal Hancock is at least how I perceive it.

 

[Spam286]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

You are right in the fact that it's impossible to substantiate. Also Luffy's CoO was developed by Rayleigh the Dark King, I'm sure not everyone with CoO would be able to dodge the lasers and as stated in the manga some people hone in on one type of haki as the one they are best at.

Furthermore her motivation at the time was the protection of Luffy. She even said she had never felt feelings this strong. That does not mean that her strength at other times (most fights) would be the same. Hormone injected Luffy was much stronger than normal Luffy thus emotion motivated Hancock would be stronger than normal Hancock is at least how I perceive it.

It's still a very conservative estimate though. Pacifista lasers are actually fairly easy to dodge even without CoO (all of the Strawhats seem to manage it at one point or another during their encounter on Saboady). Besides, we know nothing of how Hancock was trained (although we do know she knows Rayleigh, so we can't actually rule out the possibility that she learned from him too).

And, while emotional circumstances do affect people's strength in OP, it's not a consistent thing. By no means can you say definitively that people are stronger when they're angry, so assuming Hancock is going to be considerably weaker without that anger is to make a very conservative guess.

Basically, while the evidence we have plus a few assumptions could be used to paint her as being the same strength as a pacifista, you could also use evidence and a few assumptions to paint her as being as strong as an admiral. Fact is there isn't enough actual evidence to give even a remotely clear idea of her strength. There are, however, indicators such as her Shichibukai status, her fruit, her haki usage, the fact that she hasn't taken a single hit yet, etc. to suggest that the low estimate of her strength probably isn't the one we should be looking at.

 

[weixiaobao]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

wow, this is why there was so much argument in my other ranking thread. People's interpretations are vastly different with each other. I will also do my ranking here I supposed. Keep in my, I only do ranking with concrete feats.

1) Mihawk (preskipped)- his casual attacks already on par with Law's strongest attacks. And the lack of DF power giving him an advantage over Black Beard. I don't see how preskipped Black Beard could escape death if he fought against Mihawk.

2) Doflamingo (postskipped)- honestly I don't know where would preskipped Doflamingo go. But combined his preskipped and postskipped feats, he is something. Some of his feats are questionable and is a much debate topics among fans (like his feat against Jozu). But what going for him is the range of his attacks which is seemed to be much farther than Law. The versatility of his abilities which seemed to have an effect on powerful opponents (Sanji and Jozu). He also had one of the better mobility among the shichibukai. Although Law was heavily injured and not at full power when the two fought, but it does seem Doflamingo is a league above Law in term of reaction speed, agility, and close combat speed (probably on par with Sanji or Luffy).

3) BlackBeard (preskipped)- I put DD's postskipped higher than BB's preskipped because I do think DD maybe a better match up to BlackBeard than Ace. And Doflamingo probably may also has a chance of winning against Ace in a close fight. Why preskipped BlackBeard so low on the list? Because he tank damage and even seemed to moan against Luffy's preskipped attacks. Against high tier opponents who don't mess around (Ace sort of mess around at first), they will not give him the time to flop around on the floor. Beside his DF, BlackBeard seemed to have pretty high physical abilities and high endurance (not so sure about durability).

4) Hancock (preskipped)- her ability is pretty hax, her physical abilities is top notch.

5) Kuma (preskipped)- still has his mind, Hancock and Kuma's placement can be switch and not concrete. Both has hax Devilfruit. It doesn't seemed like Kuma's body bother Hancock at all. So it come down to DF vs DF and I am not really sure how that would play down.

6) Law (postskipped)- Another hax devil fruit, but he is placed below 4 and 5 due to what I think is inferior physical stats. Law is no meant a slouch. His best feat so far is surviving against DD and an Admiral at the same time. The guy seemed to come in battle prepare. And he probably does have a chance of defeating the people above him.

7) Jinbe (postskipped)- pretty controversial placement, probably has better physical stats than most of the people above him. The ocean is his playground. I would go so far as saying that he beats everyone in the ocean. But can he beat them on land?? That I'm not so sure especially against versatile DF abilities.

8) Crocodile (preskipped)- we have no info on his postskipped, so I am not gonna bother. But as demonstrated in Marineford, his physical stats should be super human and probably on par with the like of Kaku and Jabra (and maybe on the range of Lucci or below). His DF gave him quite the versatile and mobility, it also negate his weakness.

9) Moriah (preskipped)- lol stealing shadows, well, no one gonna stand around for him to steal against this pool of contestants. And he seemed to be physically weak without his shadows. Even with some, he still one punch KO by Jinbe. And who know how many years he spent on collecting shadows. So take that factor out, his DF is pretty interesting. But just not strong enough against this crowd.

---------- Post added at 12:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 AM ----------

hmm, wow, am I implying that if Luffy beat Doflamingo this arc, he should be surpassing Ace. lol, I didn't even realize I am implying that, but I think that could be a reasonable conclusion.

 

[M3J]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

What if Luffy already surpassed Ace though? I mean, the only reason why Ace was better was because Luffy didn't have a handle on his rubber body, and then Ace became a logia, whom LUffy didn't know how to handle. Now that Luffy knows haki and can hit logia, he should be able to beat Ace, if not at the least be more even with him.


I also don't agree with putting Law up so high, to be honest. Jinbei and Crocodile seem to be better than Law.

 

[weixiaobao]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

What if Luffy already surpassed Ace though? I mean, the only reason why Ace was better was because Luffy didn't have a handle on his rubber body, and then Ace became a logia, whom LUffy didn't know how to handle. Now that Luffy knows haki and can hit logia, he should be able to beat Ace, if not at the least be more even with him.

I think there is more to Ace than his logia power. Physically he was on par with Jinbe.

I also don't agree with putting Law up so high, to be honest. Jinbei and Crocodile seem to be better than Law.

Neither Jinbei or Crocodile can survive the onslaught of an Admiral and DD as the same time. I am talking about Marineford Crocodile, as for Jinbe, I am not taking into account how super powerful he is in the water.

 

[M3J]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

I agree, Ace is an exceptional fighter, which shocked the Blackbeard pirates as they didn't expect logias to be as good a fighter as Ace was. I'm just saying that there's more to Ace beating Luffy than the fact he beat him, as there's more to Ace than his logia. I don't think Luffy even now would have an easy time beating Ace, especially when Jinbei and Blackbeard had difficulty fighting Ace.


Law didn't survive the onslaught, Doflamingo wasn't trying to kill Law. We saw Fujitora hold Law under his sword, and even after the fight, Doflamingo still went for hurting Law rather than killing him. Crocodile seems to have fought Doflamingo with no problem, while Jinbei survived Akainu. Law looks the worst out of the three.

 

[weixiaobao]

Re: Rank the Shichibukai

Jinbei was a fodder to Akainu. My all meant he should have die that day if Crocodile didn't knock him up, Buggy didn't carry him, and Law didn't save him. So using Akainu right there isn't good. Even then, what Akainu did was overkill. However, what you can take from it is that Jinbei has one of the better endurance feat that may beat even BlackBeard. With that being said, he is a horrible match up to Law, straight forward fighter is a horrible match up to Law.

Law went into the fight with less than his full potential. It seemed Punk Hazard took a lot out of him. Even then, he was stalling, he let his opponents think he was captured. I meant a few chapters later he was seen deflecting the Admiral's attacks on the Thousand Sunny. If Law fought someone with less agility even as injured as he was, he may even win via Mes. That is a sure kill attack but not a perfect one. As demonstrate by DD, people who can outmaneuver Law can avoid it.

Law, Luffy, Drake, and Kidd are roughly in the same range. If one of them cannot even surpass a preskipped Crocodile, there must be something wrong. Crocodile's feat in Marineford let to many argument on the inconsistency of Oda. But perhaps Luffy just was that strong at the end of the Alabasta arc (he probably stronger than when he was in Water 7). Crocodile's feat of enduring Jozu to blocking Mihawk, and DD seemed impressive. But those are brief, and not particularly a good gauge of his strength. Marineford Luffy should be able to give Crocodile quite a fight even though I think Crocodile is a bit stronger. If a preskipped Luffy fight (weakly) kinda on par with Crocodile, then I don't think a postskipped top supernovas would lost to Crocodile.

Crocodile is extremely intelligent. But between him and Law, Law seemed to keep his cool under pressure a lot more.