Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2014] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[101nemesis]

Haha. I get the post you made. But no author is stupid enough to take things slow if they are given a set date, which is my point. If Kubo was given a date, he wouldn't be taking it even more slow. He would quicken the pace. He can and he has done it before. Just look at the fullbring arc where we had a nice pace in the beginning but ended up having such an increase in its pace from the mid point that it just didn't make sense anymore.

 

[WyldViolet]

no author is stupid enough to take things slow if they are given a set date

Takei.

 

[Kaizou 10]

...Did you not even read my post? I'm telling you that just because Bleach is more popular than the series mentioned doesn't change the fact that they were all series that sold well but were axed nonetheless. I even clearly talked about Bleach having higher sales and why that doesn't necessarily matter.

Yes, I know that. But, I'm saying that Bleach's case is different from those series.

I know Bleach's popularity and ranking has decreased, but it isn't like it dropped to Shaman King or Nura's popularity. Bleach is still one of most popular series in Japan, and those series (Shaman King, Nurarihyon, and Medaka Box) aren't one of most popular series in Japan. That's what I'm trying to explain.

If Kuroko and AC suddenly dropped to bottom 5 or last place and stay there for consecutive weeks but decreased little bit of its popularity, then are you gonig to argue that those two series will get axed because those are from Jump?

---------- Post added at 02:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:32 PM ----------

Takei.

For Shaman King, the story already has become too big, so it was difficult for the authors to wrap-up by couple of chapters. That's why Takei did open ending and completed Shaman King through complete edition.

 

[Korean Kuroko]

four pages of straight up "Will Bleach get cancelled?" talk...Let's keep it going.
So I guess the main argument is this:
''The series is ending anyway so Jump will let Kubo take as long as he needs" vs ''Declining popularity plus other series becoming popular means it's a matter of time till Bleach is given the axe".
Which in itself leads to:
"The series wont end soon due to pacing plus the fact of multiple story threads that need to be resolved'' vs ''The series will end soon because Kubo is feeling pressured and will either wrap up plot points quickly or ignore them all together''.

 

[WyldViolet]

If Kuroko and AC suddenly dropped to bottom 5 or last place and stay there for consecutive weeks but decreased little bit of its popularity, then are you gonig to argue that those two series will get axed because those are from Jump?

Of course I would.
Because that's how Jump works.

 

[101nemesis]

I want to modify that question to.

If Kuroko and AC suddenly dropped to bottom 5 or last place and stay there for consecutive weeks but decreased little bit of its popularity, then are you gonig to argue that those two series will get axed because those are from Jump. Also, assume that AC and Kuroko sold so much and maintained that popularity for a decade before it declined?

 

[Kaizou 10]

four pages of straight up "Will Bleach get cancelled?" talk...Let's keep it going.
So I guess the main argument is this:
''The series is ending anyway so Jump will let Kubo take as long as he needs" vs ''Declining popularity plus other series becoming popular means it's a matter of time till Bleach is given the axe".
Which in itself leads to:
"The series wont end soon due to pacing plus the fact of multiple story threads that need to be resolved'' vs ''The series will end soon because Kubo is feeling pressured and will either wrap up plot points quickly or ignore them all together''.

Actually, I'm more of that part. I'm just roughly reading Bleach, so I'm not really exactly sure how it is going to now; but, I can say that it isn't anywhere like going to end by within next 20 chapters.

 

[101nemesis]

four pages of straight up "Will Bleach get cancelled?" talk...Let's keep it going.
So I guess the main argument is this:
''The series is ending anyway so Jump will let Kubo take as long as he needs" vs ''Declining popularity plus other series becoming popular means it's a matter of time till Bleach is given the axe".
Which in itself leads to:
"The series wont end soon due to pacing plus the fact of multiple story threads that need to be resolved'' vs ''The series will end soon because Kubo is feeling pressured and will either wrap up plot points quickly or ignore them all together''.

Basically, this

- People bring in older series that were axed in spite of being popular and the fans, such as myself, bring up how Bleach is not like the other series.
- Some will say 'This is WSJ. Anything can happen'. Others will say 'WSJ will give Kubo that much more respect for what his series has done and achieved after all WSJ take pride in "respecting" their authors'
- People would say 'newer series are rising and taking over' while the fans would say 'that does not mean they would just cancel a series that earns them tons of money which is the combined sales of Haikyuu!!, Soma and Nisekoi'
- People would bring up the reduced sales. Fans would say those sales have been constant for the past 3 years and is not reducing anymore like how usual declining series would portray.

Which is why I didn't want this discussion in the first place. No one will accept the other's opinion. See how pointless it was?

 

[Nayrael]

Yes, Bleach is an anomaly with its very high tank sales but low magazine rankings.
But its sales numbers don't matter as much as you think they do.
Yes, Shaman King, Nura, and Medaka Box didn't sell as well as Bleach, but they still sold well and got axed.
The fans of those series all tried claiming there was no way they'd be axed despite their low rankings because of their high sales. But alas, they were all still axed.
Bleach is in the same boat. Yes, it sell a couple hundred thousand more volumes, but at the end of the day it still isn't popular in the magazine and Jump has other series they could promote instead.

Additionally, sales only mean something if there is a trend of growing. If new Tankobon sells as well as the last one or if each new Tankobon earns less sales than the ones before, then those sales are of little value. I don't follow Tankobon sales anymore so I don't know what is Bleach's situation, but I felt I should mention this.

Still, I don't think Bleach will get axed, at least not in the way many people expect it. The better a series did during its life, the more luxuries are given to the Mangaka. Bleach would be tolerated longer than younger series would be and even if WSJ decided to axe it, they would give Kubo a few months to wrap things up and maybe even some Jump NEXT treatment. Series that get axed at chapter 100 and series that get axed at chapter 600 won't get the same treatment.

 

[Kaizou 10]

Of course I would.
Because that's how Jump works.

So far, Jump didn't have much situations that happened like that, so that's why it is hard to tell.

If this happened to Nisekoi and you argue that it'll get axed, then I'll agree with you. But, for those, the situations are different.

---------- Post added at 02:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:40 PM ----------

'WSJ will give Kubo that much more respect for what his series has done and achieved after all WSJ take pride in "respecting" their authors'

Actually, I don't think the editors are respecting Kubo or not any other authors (except Oda and Kishimoto). I'm arguing that Bleach is still popular enough to not to get cancelled.

For example, is it wise to treat the series which had always been of top 3 in Japan moved down to top 5 with the series which had always been of top 10 in Japan moved down to top 20? That's my argument.

From Jump, they do axe series that moved down to top 20, but I don't think Jump is eager enough to cancel series that moved down to top 5.

And that's my point which I tried to argue.

 

[WyldViolet]

Additionally, sales only mean something if there is a trend of growing. If new Tankobon sells as well as the last one or if each new Tankobon earns less sales than the ones before, then those sales are of little value. I don't follow Tankobon sales anymore so I don't know what is Bleach's situation, but I felt I should mention this.

Still, I don't think Bleach will get axed, at least not in the way many people expect it. The better a series did during its life, the more luxuries are given to the Mangaka. Bleach would be tolerated longer than younger series would be and even if WSJ decided to axe it, they would give Kubo a few months to wrap things up and maybe even some Jump NEXT treatment. Series that get axed at chapter 100 and series that get axed at chapter 600 won't get the same treatment.

However quite a few people think that Jump gave Kubo his deadline back in July when he was given the 5 week hiatus to think of a way to wrap the series up.
It's been almost 6 months since then and its obvious that he clearly didn't take advantage of the hiatus and thus will probably get a Shaman King ending.

 

[Kaizou 10]

Which is why I didn't want this discussion in the first place. No one will accept the other's opinion. See how pointless it was?

Yeah, you're right. I think I should end this argument now.

This argument was kind of becoming like the argument from few weeks ago about some saying Beelzebub going to end and others saying it'll going to survive.

 

[101nemesis]

...

I know.
I'm just generalizing how a debate on this topic would go. So far, it has gone according to what I said.

How about we just leave this topic here guys? Kaizou? Nensense? xi0? and every other person who contributed to this?
I see a lot of users online, so I'm guessing many are just reading and enjoying the comments and the debate.

 

[WyldViolet]

Yeah, you're right. I think I should end this argument now.

This argument was kind of becoming like the argument from few weeks ago about some saying Beelzebub going to end and others saying it'll going to survive.

And yet Beelzebub did end up ending.

 

[101nemesis]

And yet Beelzebub did end up ending.

...
Nope. I ain't gonna continue this discussion.

 

[Kaizou 10]

How about we just leave this topic here guys? Kaizou? Nensense? xi0? and every other person who contributed to this?
I see a lot of users online, so I'm guessing many are just reading and enjoying the comments and the debate.

I already said that I'm going to stop, so I'm not sure how others going to do.

What about start this debate, since two out of four new series started, do you guys think Illegal Rare and/or I Shoujo have chance to survive or not?

 

[WyldViolet]

I already said that I'm going to stop, so I'm not sure how others going to do.

What about start this debate, since two of four series started, do you guys think Illegal Rare and/or I Shoujo have chance to survive or not?

As most of you know, I didn't think Illegal Rare had a chance at first. After reading the first two chapters, I personally am not sold on the series but I do think it has a decent shot at surviving.
Haven't read the first chapter of iShoujo yet so I can't say much about it. However, if by some chance it and Illegal Rare both succeed, and if Stealth Symphony also succeeds then there will be some major changes in the Jump lineup.

 

[Josef]

I am all for discussing the new series of Stealth Symphony.

I just hope we get scans fast enough, dunno about criteria for a series to do get scanned, but we are going to wait a while, not that much since the series looks promising.

 

[101nemesis]

I already said that I'm going to stop, so I'm not sure how others going to do.

What about start this debate, since two out of four new series started, do you guys think Illegal Rare and/or I Shoujo have chance to survive or not?

I haven't seen any translations yet to make that discussion. From what I feel, Ishoujo just won't last. It basically runs on ecchi. I kinda have a strong distaste to manga that use just ecchi. I mean, maybe few years back when WSJ was going through a bit of a dry spell but now there are a lot of series that are well made and popular for an ecchi driven manga to do well, IMO.
I find the art in Illegal Rare intriguing. Would love to read it sometime soon.

 

[Kaizou 10]

I am all for discussing the new series of Stealth Symphony.

Well, I don't think there really aren't much anything to talk about SS since the raw hasn't even released yet.

dunno about criteria for a series to do get scanned

I think either the group gets interesting enough or not.