Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2014] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 5

[Kaizou 10]

Quite sure readers are getting their action fixes elsewhere. Why invest in lower tier WSJ action series when one could get into higher tier series in Jump sq or even series like Magi or Attack on Titan in kodansha mags. A moratorium on new action series in jump is needed as at this rate nothing will really find a market until the major series end and when theres less competition out there.

Magi is not from Kodansha.

 

[Leoat12]

Is that really a market shift though?

It's not like action adventure titles stopped being popular as a whole. When I look at the Japanese Comic Rankings I see Naruto, One Piece, and Bleach all sitting very close to the top. I suspect it's just more of a feature of failing to find the right story with the right characters for that story. The number #1 requirement of a good action/adventure is capturing people's imagination. I've given a try to almost every action series Jump has greenlighted in recent years and I just thought most weren't good enough.

Naruto, One Piece and Bleach have the time in their sides. Even if the readers don't have the feeling to read new action series, they still will read those three because it almost makes part of the routine of everybody already. Many people badmouth about Naruto and Bleach but still read them because of the habit or just because they want to see the ending after years of reading.

 

[Jammin]

Well, I'm not sure if it is a quality problem, but the action series is like double edged sword. It is a genre which able to get popular as compared to other series, but it'll axe quickly as well if it failed to catch the readers attention.

Serializing the action series comes with pretty high risk.

It's also a genre that is reliant on worldbuilding as it starts up. Which makes them especially slow starters; and prone to some serious exposition.

If you actually go back and read One Piece, Naruto, or Bleach all three started pretty slow.

 

[Kaiten]

Is that really a market shift though?

Absolutely. Not producing a single successful example of something for five or six years is a trend. That can not happen by accident. All examples cited were over ten years old. Naruto and One Piece both started in the 90's. They do not represent current trends. Bleach's TOC rankings indicate a sharp decline in popularity. Naruto and Bleach both are in the middle of climactic arcs. Toriko is the only current Jump action manga that is less than 10 years old. The rest have ended, or moved.

 

[Kaizou 10]

It's also a genre that is reliant on worldbuilding as it starts up. Which makes them especially slow starters; and prone to some serious exposition.

If you actually go back and read One Piece, Naruto, or Bleach all three started pretty slow.

Furthermore, the first couple of chapters are kind of like generic/repetitive to the other genres. That's why people going to drop action series at the early stage.

For the action series to surivive, it needs to show the attractive MC, the cool power, interesting world, and intereting topic within first few chapters. That's why the action series considers the double-edged sword.

 

[Kaiten]

Quite sure readers are getting their action fixes elsewhere. Why invest in lower tier WSJ action series when one could get into higher tier series in Jump sq or even shonen sunday series like Magi or competitors series Attack on Titan in kodansha mags. A moratorium on new action series in jump is needed as at this rate nothing will really find a market until the major series end and when theres less competition out there.

There will always be some popular action manga. It's a staple genre, not just of manga, but all forms of entertainment. The trend seems to be away from Dragonball inspired, super power action. Shingeki has little in common with Bleach, Naruto, Reborn or other 21st century Jump action hits. Magi is serialized in Shounen Sunday, where action has never been the primary genre.

 

[Jammin]

Naruto, One Piece and Bleach have time in their side. Even if the readers don't have the feeling to read new action series, they still will read those three because it almost makes part of the routine of everybody already. Many people badmouth about Naruto and Bleach but still read it.

When it comes to Naruto I am guilty as charged.

But if you compare the Japanese comic rankings now with those of 2008 they don't really have more action series or more variety. They look about the same as far as I can tell.

I don't see any reason to think there has been a market shift. Just a dry spell for series with that kind of potential. I mean, great series do not come along every day or even every year and when they do sometimes Jump isn't the one that gets them. This isn't anybody's fault or something that Jump is in any way responsible for. It's just the way the cookie crumbles.

Would Jump have liked to get more recent action series like Nanatsu no Taizai or UQ Holder? Probably, but they didn't. Thems the breaks.

 

[Kaiten]

I don't see any reason to think there has been a market shift. Just a dry spell for series with that kind of potential. I mean, great series do not come along every day or even every year and when they do sometimes Jump isn't the one that gets them. This isn't anybody's fault or something that Jump is in any way responsible for. It's just the way the cookie crumbles.

Six years is one hell of a dry spell

 

[Leoat12]

When it comes to Naruto I am guilty as charged.

But if you compare the Japanese comic rankings now with those of 2008 they don't really have more action series or more variety. They look about the same as far as I can tell.

I don't see any reason to think there has been a market shift. Just a dry spell for series with that kind of potential. I mean, great series do not come along every day or even every year and when they do sometimes Jump isn't the one that gets them. This isn't anybody's fault or something that Jump is in any way responsible for. It's just the way the cookie crumbles.

Would Jump have liked to get more recent action series like Nanatsu no Taizai or UQ Holder? Probably, but they didn't. Thems the breaks.

That could be true, but many series with great potential appeared in Jump in the last years, none of them were an action series, though. That's why I think it is either a problem of quality or readers are changing their vision towards Jump, they are seeking for action series in other magazines while diversifying in Jump. Personally, it would be the second for me, I wouldn't like Jump crammed with actions series, the way it is now is the best way for me. An action series is not necessary for me now. A market shift as whole, probably not, new action series are making success in other magazines; but a changing of mind within Jump, maybe.

Nanatsu no Taizai and UQ Holder are hard to discuss because we don't know it they would survive in Jump, which has a completly different system.

 

[Jammin]

Six years is one hell of a dry spell

It's really not. See for yourself. Dragon Ball and Yu Yu Hakusho were exactly 6 years apart. With another 4 years until Ruroni Kenshin.

Strictly speaking the anomaly was hitting with One Piece, Naruto, and Bleach as close together as they did.

---------- Post added at 01:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:55 AM ----------

That could be true, but many series with great potential appeared in Jump in the last years, none of them were any action series, though. That's why I think it is either a problem of quality or readers are changing their vision towards Jump, they are seeking for action series in other magazines while diversifying in Jump. Personally, it would be the second for me, I wouldn't like Jump crammed with actions series, the way it is now is the best way for me. An action series is not necessary for me now. A market shift as whole, probably not, new action series are making success in other magazines; but a changing of mind within Jump, maybe.

Nanatsu no Taizai and UQ Holder are hard to discuss because we don't know it they would survive in Jump, which has a completely different system.

The funny thing in all this is that Jump is already fairly action heavy. One Piece, Toriko, Bleach, and Naruto.

Naruto and Bleach may be ending but they aren't over yet. Until they are actually over there really is no need to do an push for action series. Right now, I think the Jump editors are just throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks(how else do you wind up with 2 cooking mangas). If a new action/adventure series sticks, great . But if it doesn't that doesn't seem like a huge area of concern until those long running series actually end.

It's like in football when a team doesn't have a pressing need in the draft. They draft the best player available. I think, that's exactly what Jump is doing.

 

[[Cross]]

There is most definitely a market change, though probably not as drastic as some are making it sound. It's easier to say that they just need gold to strike, but this issue won't really come into play until at least both Naruto and Bleach are gone. I will say though, currently the magazine as a whole doesn't really speak to me as much. Many of the manga I've read have ended and I'm just hanging onto Bleach/Naruto/One Piece and Souma. I've tried what is there, but it just doesn't stick with me.

 

[Eru13]

Here are the entrants for Soma/WT's MAD contest 2nd round in case anyone's interested
Shokugeki no Soma
1
2
3
4
5

World Trigger
1
2
3
4
5

 

[Maxy Barnard]

It's really not. See for yourself. Dragon Ball and Yu Yu Hakusho were exactly 6 years apart. With another 4 years until Ruroni Kenshin.

Strictly speaking the anomaly was hitting with One Piece, Naruto, and Bleach as close together as they did.

your confirmation bias is showing. In those six years inbetween we had City Hunter, Sakigake Otokojuku, Saint Seiya, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, Bastard!, Rokudenashi Blues, Dragon Quest, Hana no Keiji AND Shin Jungle King Ta-chan. I mean, sure, some of those are hybridised as far as the chaotic world of genre goes, but... you're super wrong!

 

[101nemesis]

It's definitely true that the newer generation of readers don't tend to like the old fashioned battle manga such as Bleach and Naruto. Even the relatively newer action manga such as Toriko and FT haven't even reached where Reborn was in its peak. You could say that for almost 20-25 years, the battle manga genre has been exhausted.

The new generation tends to like more gritty type of series such as Shingeki, Terra Formars or something that is very different in approach (unorthodox) like AC, Soma etc.

At least that's what I feel.
Makes me wonder how IR and SS would do in the coming weeks since they both seem to be going for the battle manga approach.

 

[Kaizou 10]

Out of 21 current ongoing series (including HxH), there are 10 action series (I included AC because I think it is action series; not pure action series, though) and I think this is enough action series in one magazine.

Is it like people who argue more action series believe that Jump needs more than 10 action series? And people who argue the trend shift argues that Jump used to have more than 10 action series in their magazine before?

Throughout seeing the comments about Jump needs more action series and the trend has been changed, I begin to wonder this.

 

[Teeba]

I have a question: Aren't sports series pretty much action as well? Sure, some of them might be more slice-of-life orientated, but aren't they also focused on external conflict, much like battle manga?

 

[Kaizou 10]

Since everyone talks about whether it needs more action or the trend changed, then maybe it is good idea to see the past ToC (from 2000 to 2010 (not 2011, 2012, 2013 since those are pretty rencet)). I'm not going to upload all of them (that's way too much ), so I'm going to upload Issue 17 ones since Issue 17 is most recent issue for 2014. Firstlt here is ToC for Issue 17 for this year:

Issue 17 (2014):
Kuroko no Basuke (Cover, Lead CP)
Ansatsu Kyoushitsu
Shokugeki no Souma
Peach Pluck (CP, One Shot)
Naruto
Illegal Rare
Tokyo Wonder Boys
Funny Honey (One Shot)
Bleach (CP)
Isobe Isobee Monogatari
iShoujo
Saiki Kusou no Sainan
Stealth Symphony
Haikyuu!!
World Trigger
Nisekoi
Gintama
Kochikame
Soul Catcher(s)
Iron Knight

And, now here is Issue 17 ToC from 2000 to 2010:

Spoiler

Issue 17 (2000):
Hikaru no Go (Lead CP)
One Piece
Naruto
Tennis no Oujisama (CP)
Seikimatsu Leader-den Takeshi!
I''s
Jojo's Bizarre Adventure (CP)
Trickies Pin-tarou
Yu-Gi-Oh
Rising Impact
Sanjuushi
Rookies
Kochikame
Whistle!
Houshin Engi
Shaman King
Braiman
Hunter x Hunter
Hanasaka Tenshi Tenten-kun

Issue 17 (2001):
Hikaru no Go (Lead CP)
One Piece
Tennis no Oujisama
Naruto (CP)
Seikimatsu Leader-den Takeshi!
Hunter x Hunter
Yu-Gi-Oh
Lilim Kiss
Juushin Ikari Kojirou (CP)
Jojo's Bizarre Adventure
Boboboobo Boobobo
Black Cat
Shaman King
Kochikame
Rookies
Rising Impact
Normandy Himitsu Club
Whistle!
Braiman
Gun Blaze West
Pyuuuu to Fuku! Jaguar

Issue 17 (2002):
Naruto (Lead CP)
Tennis no Oujisama
One Piece
Akkera Kanjichou
Seikimatsu Leader-den Takeshi! (CP)
Bleach
Kochikame
Yu-Gi-Oh
Ichigo 100%
Shaman King (CP)
Hikaru no Go
Shounen Esper Nejime
Whistle!
Boboboobo Boobobo
Mr.Fullswing
Jojo's Bizarre Adventure
Black Cat
-Sowaka-
Sakura Tetsu Taiwa-hen
Rookies
Pyuuuu to Fuku! Jaguar

Issue 17 (2003):
Naruto (Lead CP)
Hikaru no Go
Bleach
Tennis no Oujisama (CP)
Yu-Gi-Oh
Boboboobo Boobobo
Eyeshield 21
Pretty Face
One Shot
Shaman King
Mr.Fullswing
One Shot
Ichigo 100%
Kochikame
Ultra Red
Hunter x Hunter
Black Cat
Jojo's Bizarre Adventure
Tattoo Hearts
Pyuuuu to Fuku! Jaguar

Issue 17 (2004):
Shounen Shugoshin (Lead CP)
One Piece
Naruto
Muteki Tetsubime Spin-chan
Death Note
Bleach
Mikakunin Shounen Gedoo (CP)
Eyeshield 21
Tennis no Oujisama
Boboboobo Boobobo
Ichigo 100%
Shaman King
Kochikame
Gintama
Steel Ball Run
Hunter x Hunter
Busou Renkin
Mr.Fullswing
Black Cat
Pyuuuu to Fuku! Jaguar

Issue 17 (2005):
Naruto (Lead CP)
Bleach
One Piece
Eyeshield 21
D.Gray-man
Muhyo to Rooji no Mahouritsu Soudan Jimusho
Majin Tantei Nougami Neuro
Gintama
Katekyou Hitman Reborn!
Boboboobo Boobobo
Yuuto
Tennis no Oujisama
Kochikame
Gintama
Mr.Fullswing
One Shot
Hunter x Hunter
Ichigo 100%
Busou Renkin
Waq Waq
Pyuuuu to Fuku! Jaguar

Issue 17 (2006):
One Piece (Lead CP)
Naruto
Bleach
Eyeshield
Gintama
Katekyou Hitman Reborn! (CP)
Boboboobo Boobobo
Death Note
Mezon Do Penguin
Muhyo to Roojii no Mahouritsu Soudan Jimusho
Kochikame
One Shot
Majin Tantei Nougami Neuro
Takaya
Tsugihagi Hyouryuu Sakka
Taizou Moteou Saaga
Mieru Hito
Beshari Gurashi
Pyuuuu to Fuku! Jaguar

Issue 17 (2007):
One Piece (Lead CP)
Bleach
Katekyou Hitman Reborn!
Gintama
Naruto
Eyeshield 21 (CP)
D.Gray-man
Majin Tantei Nougami Neuro
Mezon Do Penguin
Samurai Usagi
Taizou Moteou Saaga
Mx0
Volleyball Tsukai-bu Gouda Gou (CP)
Shinsetsu Boboboobo Boobobo
Blue Dragon Ral Gurado
One Shot
Kochikame
To Love-Ru
One Shot
Muhyo to Roojii no Mahouritsu Soudan Jimusho
P2!
Pyuuuu to Fuku! Jaguar

Issue 17 (2008):
Double Arts (Lead CP)
One Piece
Naruto
Barihaken (CP)
Eyeshield 21
Katekyou Hitman Reborn!
Shiritsu Poseidon Gakuen Koutou-bu
Gintama
Bleach
Majin Tantei Nougami Neuto
Nurarihyon no Mago
Sket Dance
Kochikame
Hatsukoi Limited
Hunter x Hunter
Boku to Watashi no Yuusha Gaku
D.Gray-man
Psyren
Mx0
To Love-Ru
Saumrai Usagi
Pyuuuu to Fuku! Jaguar

Issue 17 (2009):
Kochikame (Lead CP)
One Piece
Naruto
Gintama
Toriko
Bleach (CP)
Beelzebub
Sket Dance
Katekyou Hitman Reborn! (CP)
Hoopmen
Majin Tantei Nougami Neuto
Inumarudashii
Bakuman
Nurarihyon no Mago
Psyren
Kuroko no Basket
Bokke-san
Eyeshield 21
D.Gray-man
To Love-Ru
Pyuuuu to Fuku! Jaguar

Issue 17 (2010):
Katekyou Hitman Reborn (Lead CP)
Naruto
One Piece
Gintama
Bleach
Kuroko no Basket
Nurarihyon no Mago
Sket Dance
One Shot
Kochikame
Psyren (CP)
Lock On!
Bakuman
Kiben Gakuga, Yotsuya Senpai no Kaidan
Medaka Box
Toriko
Inumarudashii
Hunter x Hunter
Beelzebub
Hokenshitsu no Shinigami
Kashikoiken Rilienthal
Pyuuuu to Fuku! Jaguar

 

[101nemesis]

​

Out of 21 current ongoing series (including HxH), there are 10 action series (I included AC because I think it is action series; not pure action series, though) and I think this is enough action series in one magazine.

Is it like people who argue more action series believe that Jump needs more than 10 action series? And people who argue the trend shift argues that Jump used to have more than 10 action series in their magazine before?

Throughout seeing the comments about Jump needs more action series and the trend has been changed, I begin to wonder this.

Think what people mean is that most of these action series in JUMP right now aren't typical shonen battle manga. Most are unorthodox.
Not counting Iron Knight and the new serializations, we have One Piece, Naruto, Bleach, Toriko and World Trigger. Among these 5, 3 are more than 570 chapters old and World Trigger is barely doing well.
Not including Iron Knight since we all know it would get cancelled eventually.

The other manga such as AC, Soma, KnB, HQ!! can all come under unorthodox battle manga(I count sports as unorthodox). But that would be the point, they aren't your typical battle manga which JUMP seems to not have much these days.

The remaining TOC's from 2011- 2013 are below (Thought I'd help Kaizou a bit)

Spoiler

Issue 17 2011
Toriko (Cover)(Lead Color Page)
One Piece
Naruto
Sket Dance
Magico
Bleach
Meruhen Ouji Grim a.k.a Prince of Fairy Tale "Grim"
Crossover Toriko x One Piece (Color Page)
Sengoku Armors
Inumaru Dashi
Nurarihyon no Mago (Color Page)
Bakuman
Dois Sol
Kateikyoushi Hitman Reborn! (Color Page)
Enigma
Gintama
Kuroko no Basket
Beelzebub
Kochikame
Oumagadoki Doubutsuen
Hokenshitsu no Shinigami
Medaka Box

Issue 17 2012
NARUTO (Cover, Lead Color Page)
Toriko
ONE PIECE
BLEACH
Haikyū!!
Rock Lee no Seishun Full Power Ninden (Center Color Page, One Shot)
Pajama na Kanojo。
Gintama
Bakuman。
Katekyō Hitman REBORN!
magico (Center Color Page, 23 pages)
SKET DANCE
BEELZEBUB
Nisekoi (Center Color Page)
Medaka Box
Kurogane
Kochikame
Inumarudashii
Kuroko no Basuke
Genson! Kodai Seibutsu-shi Pakky
Nurarihyon no Mago
ST&RS

Issue 17 2013
Kuroko no Basket (Cover, Lead CP)
Assassination Classroom
One Piece
Shokugeki no Souma (Center Colour)
Toriko
World Trigger
Sporting Salt (Center Colour, Oneshot, 47pg.)
Naruto
Haikyuu!! (Center Colour)
Nisekoi
PSI Kusuo Saiki
Gintama
Sket Dance
Kochikame
Beelzebub
Medaka Box
Koisuru Edison
Cross Manage
Rookie Policewoman Kiruko-san
Hungry Joker

Absent: Bleach

I have a question: Aren't sports series pretty much action as well? Sure, some of them might be more slice-of-life orientated, but aren't they also focused on external conflict, much like battle manga?

Yeah, I would call them unorthodox battle manga like Soma and Bakuman. They always refer to competitions as "battles" and its done in a way battle manga are usually done.

 

[Nayrael]

There is most definitely a market change, though probably not as drastic as some are making it sound. It's easier to say that they just need gold to strike, but this issue won't really come into play until at least both Naruto and Bleach are gone. I will say though, currently the magazine as a whole doesn't really speak to me as much. Many of the manga I've read have ended and I'm just hanging onto Bleach/Naruto/One Piece and Souma. I've tried what is there, but it just doesn't stick with me.

Indeed, once Bleach or Naruto end, new orthodox Action series will have higher chances of surviving. Many actions fans now vote for OP, Naruto, Bleach or Toriko rather than for the newbies.

 

[SharkBait]

Indeed, once Bleach or Naruto end, new orthodox Action series will have higher chances of surviving. Many actions fans now vote for OP, Naruto, Bleach or Toriko rather than for the newbies.

I dont think actiony fans are voting for Bleach as its been cannibalized by people opting for World Trigger or Assassination Classroom. And Toriko starting to slip suggests people are potentially choosing to cast their votes elsewhere.