Discussion Sanji a big dissapointment?

[Monk]

Lol. Bounties have never been a direct indicator of strenght. Robin's bounty is higher than Sanji's and Sanji could most likely one-shot her. Pekoms has 300mio because he is a new world veteran and he works for one of the Yonkou. Ofcourse he is strong but Sanji is just less known and has been active far shorter. Bounty basically means nothing. I don't say Sanji is stronger than Pekoms and Tamago I'm just saying that we can't say he is weaker just because of his bounty. It has never worked like that.

Exactly, Ceasar's bounty was 300 million and I'm pretty sure Sanji could've beaten him 1 on 1. If he ever fought against pekoms or tamago he would most likely win high diff.

 

[Fox666]

Ceaser knocked out Luffy by sucking all the air... so he is worth something.

 

[I Am Atomic]

Well I think Oda is making Sanji look bad on purpose, that way when his time to shine will come we'll all be impressed by how strong he really is. I was hoping he would take on tamago or pekoms (maybe both ?) but that seems too much.

Taking on one of them is too much!

 

[jamarTheDem]

Lol. Bounties have never been a direct indicator of strenght. Robin's bounty is higher than Sanji's and Sanji could most likely one-shot her. Pekoms has 300mio because he is a new world veteran and he works for one of the Yonkou. Ofcourse he is strong but Sanji is just less known and has been active far shorter. Bounty basically means nothing. I don't say Sanji is stronger than Pekoms and Tamago I'm just saying that we can't say he is weaker just because of his bounty. It has never worked like that.

Lol I really think your only reading what you want from my theory I just said even without bounties Pekoms could still beat Sanji . I don't understand what your not understanding .

Your saying because Sanji is less known that he could take on a New World vet ? I'm not trying to say he's weaker cause that's the unknown of One Piece now as showned Sanji been getting beat rather easily that could be part of Oda's master plan . Now that you restate what you said I understand the second go around .

---------- Post added at 10:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:36 AM ----------

Exactly, Ceasar's bounty was 300 million and I'm pretty sure Sanji could've beaten him 1 on 1. If he ever fought against pekoms or tamago he would most likely win high diff.

Your saying Sanji could beat Pekoms or Tamago ? Any proof ?

---------- Post added at 10:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:54 AM ----------

Ceaser knocked out Luffy by sucking all the air... so he is worth something.

That's what I'm saying Caesar knows how to use his ability to max , that reason and the mad scientist quote is the reason his bounty is so high .

---------- Post added at 10:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:57 AM ----------

Taking on one of them is too much!

Thank you , nobody understand that .

 

[M3J]

Pekoms bounty is 350 beris right ? No way can Sanji take him on . Tamago bounty is probably a little bit under his , still overpowering Sanji . Also even without comparing bounties we seen how strong Pekoms was I'm pretty sure he could fight Luffy and give him a good run .

Sanji is Mr. prince if anybody can he could talk his way out of dying and saving his crew members . Also like I said early his pervertiness with big mom and the 3 eye lady could save his life .

One more factor could be this: Big mom like eatting Luffy like eatting they make good friends right ?

What kind of logic is that? Luffy had far less bounty and power than people like Crocodile and still managed to win. You should know by now that bounty isn't everything. Sanji has the power of nakama behind him, he can probably win.

 

[hokageji]

Lol I really think your only reading what you want from my theory I just said even without bounties Pekoms could still beat Sanji . I don't understand what your not understanding .

We have seen Pekoms abilities for barely a minute... he is a lion with a tortoise fruit who can use Haki. Just based on this, we cannot conclude that Sanji cannot kick his ass, just as much as the opposite cannot be assumed.

Sanji doesn't have to fight Pekoms alone, he has to take on the entire crew, which is too much for him. One way the mugiwaras could survive this encounter was if it was interrupted by someone, possibly Jimbei who uses a water jet or something to shoot them off in the distance. The other is Sanji would do some kind of sacrifice, but Sanji cannot beat them in any form.

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

Yeah Sanji has been having a "hard time" since they entered the new world.As much Zoro didn't have a real opponent against whom he can show his newly acquired skills till Dressrosa, Sanji has encountered two people who can be considered very strong ,first Vergo and then DD himself and both "battles"(more like skirmishes) ended up on a defeat for Sanji. Now that BM's ship is after the Sunny, I hope Sanji will get to fight someone strong but with an ability similar to his. I don't think Pekoms is a good match, Tamago on the other hand has yet to show what he can do, and I can't unsee the fact that he has long legs so maybe Sanji should be pitted against him?

 

[Ninomiya]

Lol. Bounties have never been a direct indicator of strength.

Never is a bit strong.
It can give an indication in some ways to characters strength as long as we understand that like in most mangas, the main cast are an exception to the rule set in the manga.
Like, the Supernovas were all 100mil+ for their strength as well as their notoriety.
It lets us know the character is in a certain region of strength at least.

 

[kkck]

To be honest I would have argued for the same reasons that sanji has been given excellent treatment in fights by oda. I mean, vergo is without a doubt one of the most skilled haki users we have seen. A full body hardening was unheard of until him after all. And sanji held his ground against him even though he was beaten rather badly thanks to having his body switched. He didn't do that well against doflamingo but he did get doflamingo to admit sanji was strong which is a pretty big compliment from someone who might actually have it in him to fight an admiral. Not to mention that sanji was apparently about to have a confrontation with big mom which is in itself huge.

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

A full body hardening was unheard of until him after all.

Yeah, I wonder if his whole body really went hard and black, including his pee pee . But yeah I agree Sanji has been facing only strong guys, but since he didn't win it seemed like he was having a hard time. Compared to Zoro who casually walked by without finishing Monet you could say that at least Sanji had the opportunity to fight real opponents.

 

[jamarTheDem]

What kind of logic is that? Luffy had far less bounty and power than people like Crocodile and still managed to win. You should know by now that bounty isn't everything. Sanji has the power of nakama behind him, he can probably win.

I don't understand why I have to keep repeating myself . I just said after that even without bounties Sanji can't beat Pekoms , not as he is not . Clearly your not reading my full theory .

---------- Post added at 10:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 PM ----------

Yeah Sanji has been having a "hard time" since they entered the new world.As much Zoro didn't have a real opponent against whom he can show his newly acquired skills till Dressrosa, Sanji has encountered two people who can be considered very strong ,first Vergo and then DD himself and both "battles"(more like skirmishes) ended up on a defeat for Sanji. Now that BM's ship is after the Sunny, I hope Sanji will get to fight someone strong but with an ability similar to his. I don't think Pekoms is a good match, Tamago on the other hand has yet to show what he can do, and I can't unsee the fact that he has long legs so maybe Sanji should be pitted against him?

Tamago is from the long-leg tribe (I think) so in my eyes that would be the perfect opponent for him .

---------- Post added at 10:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:19 PM ----------

Yeah, I wonder if his whole body really went hard and black, including his pee pee . But yeah I agree Sanji has been facing only strong guys, but since he didn't win it seemed like he was having a hard time. Compared to Zoro who casually walked by without finishing Monet you could say that at least Sanji had the opportunity to fight real opponents.

Did you order something black and long ?

I guess looking at Sanji past failure as a good thing could be ok . Hopefully we see immediate growth from him though, he's one of the crew members that absolutely needs to be up to par with Luffy and Zoro . I hate that he's being showed so weak after taking out pretty strong pirates 2 years ago .

 

[M3J]

What makes you think he can't?

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

I don't understand why I have to keep repeating myself . I just said after that even without bounties Sanji can't beat Pekoms , not as he is not . Clearly your not reading my full theory .

---------- Post added at 10:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 PM ----------



Tamago is from the long-leg tribe (I think) so in my eyes that would be the perfect opponent for him .

---------- Post added at 10:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:19 PM ----------


Did you order something black and long ?

I guess looking at Sanji past failure as a good thing could be ok . Hopefully we see immediate growth from him though, he's one of the crew members that absolutely needs to be up to par with Luffy and Zoro . I hate that he's being showed so weak after taking out pretty strong pirates 2 years ago .

Not sure about the long part, his could be very small... either way I'm really curious about your reasons for thinking that Sanji can't beat Pekoms. If he can't crack his shell he can always cook him up with Diable Jambe

 

[jamarTheDem]

What makes you think he can't?

Pekoms is a New World Vet . We seen his fighting ability that was only the nut shell . I'm not saying he can or can't beat Pekoms but as of now he can't beat Pekoms . Sanji is being portrayed as weak . He does have Haki but we never really seen him using it . Why ? Because for whatever reason Oda needs Sanji to underestimate . This is not a guess I'm going off facts from the anime and manga . I wanna see Sanji grow, I do but he's being handle somewhat like...Bellamy tbh .

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

Pekoms is a New World Vet . We seen his fighting ability that was only the nut shell . I'm not saying he can or can't beat Pekoms but as of now he can't beat Pekoms . Sanji is being portrayed as weak . He does have Haki but we never really seen him using it . Why ? Because for whatever reason Oda needs Sanji to underestimate . This is not a guess I'm going off facts from the anime and manga . I wanna see Sanji grow, I do but he's being handle somewhat like...Bellamy tbh .

I think our perception of Sanji's strength is a bit warped because of how he was pitted against really strong fighters that might be out of his league right now. In the meantime Luffy and Zoro didn't have real opponents, they easily waltzed from their respective fights because they didn't face strong opponents to begin with and logically won.I think he can take care of a Pekoms or Tamago, being a veterant of the new world (is that even the case?) means nothing imo.

 

[jamarTheDem]

Not sure about the long part, his could be very small... either way I'm really curious about your reasons for thinking that Sanji can't beat Pekoms. If he can't crack his shell he can always cook him up with Diable Jambe

I just explained to M3J why my reason is but I'm pretty sure your not going to like it . Dont forget Lion too , Lion King Turtle Neck Soup anybody ?

---------- Post added at 10:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:45 PM ----------

I think our perception of Sanji's strength is a bit warped because of how he was pitted against really strong fighters that might be out of his league right now. In the meantime Luffy and Zoro didn't have real opponents, they easily waltzed from their respective fights because they didn't face strong opponents to begin with and logically won.I think he can take care of a Pekoms or Tamago, being a veterant of the new world (is that even the case?) means nothing imo.

Pekom has to be stronger then Vergo something in me is saying that . Vergo in my eyes really wasn't that strong because he covered his body in Black Haki doesn't really make him the strongest CoA Haki user alive they are others who can do the samething . Even his victory on Fishman island wasn't great . If Sanji has to fight weak opponents to look strong I don't like the new Sanji . When he was facing the CP0 Wolfman he was clearly overpowered but he managed to beat him while decovering a new ability...Diable Jambe . When he was fighting Vergo instead of getting hurt he should of learnt a new move which could of been used to stop Dolfamingo later . Like I said before how Oda is showcasing Sanji he's being considered weak purposely, I can't see him besting Pekoms whose used to battles on the New World .

- Am I the only one that think Sanji might of learnt Emporio Ivankov but is too embarrassed to use her techniques ?

 

[M3J]

Pekoms is a New World Vet . We seen his fighting ability that was only the nut shell . I'm not saying he can or can't beat Pekoms but as of now he can't beat Pekoms . Sanji is being portrayed as weak . He does have Haki but we never really seen him using it . Why ? Because for whatever reason Oda needs Sanji to underestimate . This is not a guess I'm going off facts from the anime and manga . I wanna see Sanji grow, I do but he's being handle somewhat like...Bellamy tbh .

We also haven't seen Sanji go all out either. He was still able to fight and move despite injuring his leg fighting Vergo, and he did not know about Doflamingo's ability, did he? Sanji isn't really being portrayed as weak, people just don't pay attention to the circumstances.

 

[jamarTheDem]

We also haven't seen Sanji go all out either. He was still able to fight and move despite injuring his leg fighting Vergo, and he did not know about Doflamingo's ability, did he? Sanji isn't really being portrayed as weak, people just don't pay attention to the circumstances.

I already said that . He's not being showed at his full potential . Circumstances ? I'm pretty sure it's circumstance so he don't go all out . Once again like I said earlier, Oda; the Super Puppet Master is purposely portraying Sanji as weak till the perfect timing . That's my theory . I'm not against Sanji not at all but I'm not going to make a bias opinion when facts is smacking me in the face .

Luffy and Zoro has also suffered Life threatening injuries . Especially before the timeskip . Even after the time skip Luffy needed blood on Fishman island which ever Fishman refused except Jinbe . I wanna say Sanji didn't actually break his leg because he would of let Chopper look at it by now , but maybe that's the reason he couldn't go full force . But if Sanji is actually still hurt why didn't we see it crack more from Dolfamingo ? He was seen running with violet and even took out some of Doflamingo men . I don't think he's injured OR Oda just completely forgot about it .

 

[M3J]

Oda has not portrayed Sanji as weak is the point though. Even when Sanji wasn't being shown as super powerful, he was indirectly put over, like when Nami commented on how resilient Sanji's body is.

I dunno if he did or didn't, but Sanji wasn't 100% either. He was already beaten up and was facing a fresh Vergo. He could have also put the injury aside as it wasn't that bad for him, or he did let Chopper check it out off panel. I dunno if he's still hurt, but didn't Sanji enter the fight without knowledge on Doflamingo's ability?

 

[mioluva]

Please. There is no need to bring this kind of straw man statement here. One Piece is also about characters developing. A perfect example is Robin. Please don't say stuff like "One Piece isn't a character development based manga" since Oda includes all kinds of elements in this manga for you to limit it by saying what it isn't.
Both the main cast and and recurring characters have shown character development.

It seems like you're basically saying that you're more than satisfied with these characters to remain scared regardless of the circumstances.
{ersonally I think its fine to be annoyed with Nami/Usopp/Chopper/Brook's cowardice since these guys have been hunted down by the likes of Kuma, Kizaru, Smoker and Cipher Pol already. So them being shown as pathetic against that random Art-Art fruit lady is a bit out of place considering the trained for 2 years to NOT constantly be in such scenarios and being known as "The weak trio" as Usopp stated.

The art-art fruit lady wasn't random. She was an officer in Doffy's crew which is a shichibukai crew. On top of that her powers are hax. Chopper and Brook have no idea what she'd do if they got into close quarters combat with her. Also, they're in the Sunny in the middle of the ocean. Nami and Chopper can't use strong attacks without damaging it.