Discussion Sanji a big dissapointment?

[jamarTheDem]

Sanji is not unnecessary and has never been. He's had his own important role, the only time he may have been unnecessary was when he and Jinbei were fighting Watatsumi or whatever the giant pufferfish is called. Sanji has continuously shown his stamina, even if he hasn't won a battle on his own. He got beaten up by Violet's princess but in few pages shrugged it off like nothing. His body also got battered when Nami was using it, but Nami commented on how resilient the body was, and despite injuring his leg against Vergo, Sanji also acted as if he did not get beaten up or fractured his leg.

He's needs to be seen going all out . That's the problem . This current arc he isn't showed important that's why Oda singled him and the rest of the crew-members on the Sunny running from Big Mom . That's what I'm saying . He isn't necessary right why don't you understand ? If Oda wanted Sanji on Dressrosa he would of made it so , but his important moment isn't this arc and if so It'll be at the end . Big Mom is a big deal , just as important as Doflamingo . I think you wasn't understand me .

Also once again about Sanji strength he never showed the depth of his ability . I said this already a couple of post-es ago . He never showed any new moves expect Blue Walk , he never used Iva-chan fighting style yet , he never really used Haki in a combative way either , as of now I'm looking at last year Sanji when it comes to fighting . I'm not saying he doesn't have these things , it's just he never showed it yet .

 

[M3J]

But we can gauge Sanji's strength nonetheless because despite the beating he received, he was still moving with gusto and energy and was never a deadweight. He held off Vergo, survived, held off Doflamingo, survived, and easily beat a giant pufferfish. That easily says that Sanji should be very powerful.

Unnecessary how? He's pretty much necessary, as you yourself said, he's on the ship running from Big Mom and is probably the only one who can fight or protect the ship. I'm not sure when the arc will end though, his skirmish with Big Mom could be short and near the end, but not really the end.

I know, but all we can assume based on what we have seen is that he has not needed to or couldn't go all out.

 

[jamarTheDem]

But we can gauge Sanji's strength nonetheless because despite the beating he received, he was still moving with gusto and energy and was never a deadweight. He held off Vergo, survived, held off Doflamingo, survived, and easily beat a giant pufferfish. That easily says that Sanji should be very powerful.

Unnecessary how? He's pretty much necessary, as you yourself said, he's on the ship running from Big Mom and is probably the only one who can fight or protect the ship. I'm not sure when the arc will end though, his skirmish with Big Mom could be short and near the end, but not really the end.

I know, but all we can assume based on what we have seen is that he has not needed to or couldn't go all out.

Tbh I'm so tired of assuming . I want to see Sanji in action . That's the only way we can prove anything . I'm not saying he's not strong but as a fan I'm tired of seeing hints . Ok he have energy and yeah his body is stronger but instead of that's let's see him in a all out fight showing new techniques . Fending off enemies and defeating or battling a enemies is two different things .

Because he's not being showcased in the fighting scene in Dressrosa right now . Once again your taking what I said the wrong way . I'm not saying he's unnecessary in the story I'm saying in Dressrosa in Oda eyes he isn't needed anymore . If so I'm pretty sure Sanji could of fight a exclusive but clearly the Big Mom issue is more serious and is also needed to push the storyline .

When it comes to Sanji and the Big Mom pirates in my eyes:

A) - He confront Big Mom crew in a fight . Putting the rest of crew in danger or kidnapped .

B) - He confront Big Mom and gets love struck from the 3 eye lady or Big Mom . (if she got a smaller prettier form)

C) - He remembers Big Mom like sweets and convince her to let the crew live if he can cook the perfect sweet . (Cakes, cookies, candy)

D) - They managed to use coup De Brust just In time before getting blown up .

 

[M3J]

Are you talking about Dressrosa the island or the arc? I'm talking about his importance in the arc.

 

[jamarTheDem]

Are you talking about Dressrosa the island or the arc? I'm talking about his importance in the arc.

I'm talking about Dressrosa , after he left with the crew . The fight scenes and important parts . I thought I made that clear multiple times tbh . Clearly he's important in the arc , he is getting chased by a Yonkou . On Dressrosa he could of stayed and find a opponent , but I'm pretty sure none of the exclusives could take Sanji style (maybe Diamanté) . If anything I hope one of my prediction comes true .

 

[M3J]

I don't understand you at all. What is your issue with him not being on Dressrosa? If anything, you're more likely to see him go all out against Big Mom's crew as he's the only tough fighter against multiple fighters.

 

[jamarTheDem]

I don't understand you at all. What is your issue with him not being on Dressrosa? If anything, you're more likely to see him go all out against Big Mom's crew as he's the only tough fighter against multiple fighters.

No offense but I can't break it down anymore then I've already done .

Your making it into a issues I'm just saying he's unnecessary on Dressrosa . Nothing more , nothing less . He's going to be necessary later because he needs to protect the crew from Big Mom . If anything I suspect Oda skipping parts of what happened while Luffy fought Doflamingo , then bring back what happened to the crew in a flashback .

 

[M3J]

But what's wrong with him being unnecessary on Dressrosa?

 

[jamarTheDem]

People wanted him to fight an executive . Not because it would be a even battle but because Sanji needed to show more techniques he learnt and developed . We can't be sure he's going to get in a fight with Big Mom , that's opinions we hope happens . I said this a couple post ago but don't forget he has his Mr. Prince side , he doesn't actually have to engage in combat . Sanji is a very critical thinker and using his CoO he should noticed he can't deal with these pirates alone . I want him to engaged in combat but sadly it's not my choice .

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

People wanted him to fight an executive . Not because it would be a even battle but because Sanji needed to show more techniques he learnt and developed . We can't be sure he's going to get in a fight with Big Mom , that's opinions we hope happens . I said this a couple post ago but don't forget he has his Mr. Prince side , he doesn't actually have to engage in combat . Sanji is a very critical thinker and using his CoO he should noticed he can't deal with these pirates alone . I want him to engaged in combat but sadly it's not my choice .

Who said that BM was on that ship? She most likely isn't, besides Sanji would never lay hands on a woman, remember? What you say about Sanji applies also to the rest of the crew, not all the SHs will get to shine in this arc, but they definitely have a role to play. So what's the big deal about him not being on Dressrosa? There's still Zou and Wano.
Also it's executive, not exclusive.

 

[M3J]

People wanted him to fight an executive . Not because it would be a even battle but because Sanji needed to show more techniques he learnt and developed . We can't be sure he's going to get in a fight with Big Mom , that's opinions we hope happens . I said this a couple post ago but don't forget he has his Mr. Prince side , he doesn't actually have to engage in combat . Sanji is a very critical thinker and using his CoO he should noticed he can't deal with these pirates alone . I want him to engaged in combat but sadly it's not my choice .

Would the executives be as challenging? Do you want to see Sanji show off what he's really capable of against the likes of Big Mom's crew or would you prefer he showed some of his capabilities against the executive on Dressrosa? I personally would prefer to see him defend the crew like a man he is.

 

[jamarTheDem]

Who said that BM was on that ship? She most likely isn't, besides Sanji would never lay hands on a woman, remember? What you say about Sanji applies also to the rest of the crew, not all the SHs will get to shine in this arc, but they definitely have a role to play. So what's the big deal about him not being on Dressrosa? There's still Zou and Wano.
Also it's executive, not exclusive.

Pekoms said "Momma! We can confirm Caesar is on that vessel, Roar~" no Den Den was seen so from a educational guess we can say Big Mom is in the black cave area on the left side .

Who said Sanji is going to attack Big Mom ? Look at his face . He knows when he's outmatch . Also he doesn't hit woman . Also I made opinions of what could happen just look at my other post .

Also you're taking things the wrong way . It's not about him being on Dressrosa , it's about him not showing any new moves . Period . Zoro, Luffy even Brooks showed new abilities , why Sanji only gets to show off a move showed two year ? (Blue Walk) I think you needed to reread my other posts to get a understand from where I'm coming from

---------- Post added at 12:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:08 PM ----------

Would the executives be as challenging? Do you want to see Sanji show off what he's really capable of against the likes of Big Mom's crew or would you prefer he showed some of his capabilities against the executive on Dressrosa? I personally would prefer to see him defend the crew like a man he is.

It's not about being a challenge I just said that . It's about Sanji being the only one not showing any new improvements . Blue walk isn't new at all . He could of knocked a exclusive out before they departed . That's all I meant . He's not going to defend the crew especially if the two females are the head of the ship . That's what we hope, that's what I hope but I don't see it happening sadly .

 

[SoulAuron]

Pica is stronger then vergo
Sanji was heavely wounded by don flamingo.
Zoro wasnt hurt by the admiral, when he had huge gravitiy on him, he threw an airslash forcing the admiral to back off
http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/730/9
Sanji isnt as strong as luffy or zoro since the time skip.
Im afraid we cant really speak anymore of a monster ''trio'' , but monster duo sounds alright now.

how in the world is pika stronger then vergo? i have seen nothing to indicate that, if anything i think its the oposite.

Doflamingo believed that Vergo could defeat Law, so I am quite sure Vergo could wipe the floor with Pica.

---------- Post added at 06:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:49 PM ----------

vergo stronger then Pica? i disagree, that guy can merge with an entire island and drop cities on you.

that is a superweapon kind of stregth, if someone gets close to him with haki as strong as vergos then he is shit.

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

Pekoms said "Momma! We can confirm Caesar is on that vessel, Roar~" no Den Den was seen so from a educational guess we can say Big Mom is in the black cave area on the left side .

Who said Sanji is going to attack Big Mom ? Look at his face . He knows when he's outmatch . Also he doesn't hit woman . Also I made opinions of what could happen just look at my other post .

Also you're taking things the wrong way . It's not about him being on Dressrosa , it's about him not showing any new moves . Period . Zoro, Luffy even Brooks showed new abilities , why Sanji only gets to show off a move showed two year ? (Blue Walk) I think you needed to reread my other posts to get a understand from where I'm coming from

---------- Post added at 12:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:08 PM ----------



It's not about being a challenge I just said that . It's about Sanji being the only one not showing any new improvements . Blue walk isn't new at all . He could of knocked a exclusive out before they departed . That's all I meant . He's not going to defend the crew especially if the two females are the head of the ship . That's what we hope, that's what I hope but I don't see it happening sadly .

I shouldn't get too involved in discussions, but regarding BM's problem, why would she be on the ship to begin with? They're originally there to catch CC, so I really doubt it would be required of her to be on the ship, she has plenty of minions to do that job for her. Is capturing CC really worthy of a Yonko making that journey? Sorry but I find that unlikely. I'm not saying that she's not there for sure, I'm just saying that I doubt she's there, Pekoms could have very well been talking through a mini den den mushi, and it wasn't shown.
Now about Sanji's new abilities, he strikes me as one of the SHs who developed many of them.you only mentioned BW, but there's also Hell memories, and more importantly Haki. Zoro's techniques are for the most part upgrades of previous techniques, he only started to show some of his new techniques like the one he used against Fujitora. And sorry but Sanji is clearly more advanced in combat than Brook period.
I really don't get what is the problem with Sanji not showing all his abilities in this arc, the way things are I doubt that all of the SHs will get to show how strong they became, or else this will become the longest arc in the history of OP. There's still plenty of arcs to come, in fact there is still a possibility to see him fight a worthy opponent maybe Tamago or Pekoms, while if he stayed in Dressrosa who will he be facing? Diamante? Kyros can take care of him(two champions of the corrida coloseum fighting each other). Trebol? I'd rather he didn't fight a logia just yet, because we don't know if he can use armament haki, and Law's DF seems to be very effective against him.
So you see there isn't a real problem for him not being on Dressrosa right now or not showing his new found abilities
We just have to be patient until Oda makes him face someone like Jabura. Maybe they will face CP0 on their way to Zou.
What kills me is that we haven't heard of those guys yet, but maybe they will be shown in Jinbei's cover story.

 

[jamarTheDem]

I shouldn't get too involved in discussions, but regarding BM's problem, why would she be on the ship to begin with? They're originally there to catch CC, so I really doubt it would be required of her to be on the ship, she has plenty of minions to do that job for her. Is capturing CC really worthy of a Yonko making that journey? Sorry but I find that unlikely. I'm not saying that she's not there for sure, I'm just saying that I doubt she's there, Pekoms could have very well been talking through a mini den den mushi, and it wasn't shown.
Now about Sanji's new abilities, he strikes me as one of the SHs who developed many of them.you only mentioned BW, but there's also Hell memories, and more importantly Haki. Zoro's techniques are for the most part upgrades of previous techniques, he only started to show some of his new techniques like the one he used against Fujitora. And sorry but Sanji is clearly more advanced in combat than Brook period.
I really don't get what is the problem with Sanji not showing all his abilities in this arc, the way things are I doubt that all of the SHs will get to show how strong they became, or else this will become the longest arc in the history of OP. There's still plenty of arcs to come, in fact there is still a possibility to see him fight a worthy opponent maybe Tamago or Pekoms, while if he stayed in Dressrosa who will he be facing? Diamante? Kyros can take care of him(two champions of the corrida coloseum fighting each other). Trebol? I'd rather he didn't fight a logia just yet, because we don't know if he can use armament haki, and Law's DF seems to be very effective against him.
So you see there isn't a real problem for him not being on Dressrosa right now or not showing his new found abilities
We just have to be patient until Oda makes him face someone like Jabura. Maybe they will face CP0 on their way to Zou.
What kills me is that we haven't heard of those guys yet, but maybe they will be shown in Jinbei's cover story.

No matter what theirs no proof he had a Den Den Mushi I was going off the manga . Your saying he had one doesn't mean much without proof . (Not scientific evidence...insider) even when you zoom in his hands are empty , we really don't need to go any farther with this . The black cave looks just like the one Big Mom was seen in and the man with the three faces entered .

I completely forgot Why they wanted Caesar but imma guess it has something to do with Kaido .

If he fight with everything and show improvements after two years I'll be happy .

He could of fought Burgess on Dressrosa .

I'm saying technique wise . Brooks have showed more technique then Sanji . Not strength wise .

Something wrong with it taking 3 arcs to show one new technique . Even Nami showed growth soon .

Tbh I'm tired of this long discussion because it's not getting anywhere .

Also I was hoping Jinbe don't get mad at Luffy because of it . If anything that can also trigger him to not join . Possibly .

P.s (you wrote a lot so I had to dissect what you was saying since they weren't spaced lol sorry )

 

[Ninomiya]

Trebol? I'd rather he didn't fight a logia just yet, because we don't know if he can use armament haki,

Luffy told Law that Zoro and Sanji along with himself can fight CC. Basically, Luffy confirmed Sanji can hit Logias.

 

[jamarTheDem]

Tbh Sanji is not a big Disappointed he's underestimated simply because we didn't see him get all out . Also not showing any new techniques (except Blue Walk) could also conclude to the problem . Some say he needs to fight with Big Mom crew , I personally think it'd be a failed mission . To be beat Big Mom crew , I think Law and Luffy would need to combine their respected crews . It's possible . Sanji instead of fighting needs to run or some kind of way needs to Mr. prince the Big Momma pirates . (With that sly tongue of his)

 

[Ninomiya]

To be beat Big Mom crew , I think Law and Luffy would need to combine their respected crews . It's possible .

Think of the bloodshed dude no way.
If all sides go all out, without a ridiculous amount of plot armor at this moment in time, Big Mom's crew would murder Nami/Chopper/Usopp/Franky/Robin before Luffy/Zoro/Law/Sanji/Franky manage to pull off a win against Big Mom.
And we know in One Piece that losing several key comrades = A Loss overall.

No way would the weak guys survive a Yonkou crews wrath just yet. We can only wait until Oda shows us Usopp/Nami's genuine combat improvement after time-skip and well... Hopefully Chopper has a little bit more to give too.

Tbh Sanji is not a big Disappointed he's underestimated simply because we didn't see him get all out

People want to see a Zoro VS Monet moment out of Sanji.
Or a Law VS Tashigi moment or Luffy VS Hajrudin the Giant kinda moment where the opponent just gets shutdown from all angles.

You can YouTube each of those moments to remind yourself of the wreckage in each of these scenes. Had Sanji been given the opportunity to completely annihalate a named character we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[M3J]

It's not about being a challenge I just said that . It's about Sanji being the only one not showing any new improvements . Blue walk isn't new at all . He could of knocked a exclusive out before they departed . That's all I meant . He's not going to defend the crew especially if the two females are the head of the ship . That's what we hope, that's what I hope but I don't see it happening sadly .

The thing is, you can't see how much Sanji has improved unless he comes across a challenge, which Doflamingo's crew might not offer. Besides, there are enough people on Luffy's side to match Doflamingo's, and we're probably better off seeing how Sanji improved against multiple opponents who are part of the Yonkou.

He's gonna defend the crew, but he won't attack the women.

 

[jamarTheDem]

The thing is, you can't see how much Sanji has improved unless he comes across a challenge, which Doflamingo's crew might not offer. Besides, there are enough people on Luffy's side to match Doflamingo's, and we're probably better off seeing how Sanji improved against multiple opponents who are part of the Yonkou.

He's gonna defend the crew, but he won't attack the women.

Well that seems possible . But I'm pretty sure he's outta going to see a female on the crew and turn heart eyed and get knocked out . If Sanji falls , the rest of the crew will be in picnic . (Sanji is pretty much the sub captain) which means they will be kidnapped . If Sanji fights Big Mom crew it needs to be on of her best fighters , win or scrimmage of it comes down to protecting Nami he's willing to go all out .

---------- Post added at 03:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:06 PM ----------

Think of the bloodshed dude no way.
If all sides go all out, without a ridiculous amount of plot armor at this moment in time, Big Mom's crew would murder Nami/Chopper/Usopp/Franky/Robin before Luffy/Zoro/Law/Sanji/Franky manage to pull off a win against Big Mom.
And we know in One Piece that losing several key comrades = A Loss overall.

No way would the weak guys survive a Yonkou crews wrath just yet. We can only wait until Oda shows us Usopp/Nami's genuine combat improvement after time-skip and well... Hopefully Chopper has a little bit more to give too.


People want to see a Zoro VS Monet moment out of Sanji.
Or a Law VS Tashigi moment or Luffy VS Hajrudin the Giant kinda moment where the opponent just gets shutdown from all angles.

You can YouTube each of those moments to remind yourself of the wreckage in each of these scenes. Had Sanji been given the opportunity to completely annihalate a named character we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.

It's not about them facing Big Mom , it's about them facing Big Mom crew . Right now yeah they would get beat . Hecks they already picnicking . If I remember correctly they don't have any more Coup De Blast fluid , so escape seems Inpossible . If Sanji has two choices , putting the crew in danger and fight (highly doubt it) or listen to Big Mom demand possibly being kidnapped along side Caesar .

I'm saying Nami and The gang could take care of the weaker members of Big Mom (big mom do have normal foot soldiers she doesn't create about) while Luffy, Law, Sanji, Zoro, Bepo , Chopper (hopefully) , Franky , Shachi, Penguin , Brooks could work as teams to defeat Big Mom big names . I'm not saying right now I mean after Dressrosa and Luffy and Law are safe .