Discussion About Aura Combat & How Nen Works

[tupadre97]

Hm how Tiger Bite Fist 'the perfect counter' to Bungee Gum?

Because he could rip right thru hisoka's bungee gum. It's not indestructible.

 

[Uriel]

Humans who don't know Nen cannot see it period unless it's an Conjured item.
Once you learn Nen, It becomes visible unless someone used IN
If someone is using IN they are delibritly hiding their Conjured item, Emitted item/aura, Aura period. The only way to see this is to focus and use GYO.

Fighting without Gyo is retarded its like assuming your opponent will fight fair & honest...And won't try anything sneaky or dubious

Humans who don't know Nen can't do Ten, actually. They "live" in Zetsu.

 

[XXGenesis]

Not really seeing how you have to use gyo on not just your eyes but your entire body so it makes sense you would sometimes forget your eyes. Sometimes it makes sense to not use gyo in the eyes at all (if you don't have nen to spare) if you are fighting a straight up brawler like Uvo. It could get you killed if you are focusing gyo on your eyes and forget the rest of your body. It makes more sense if you are fighting a trickster like Hisoka though. For instance if Kastro would have used gyo in the eyes (and emitted his clone rather than conjure it) he could have potentially beaten Hisoka since his tiger bite fist is the perfect counter to bungee gum. Hisoka probably knew this and that's why he let him live the first time but he was disappointed with his mistakes in the second fight and just killed him.

Wait, What! Huh?
You don't use Gyo on your whole body.
Gyo is Concentrating a high amount of Nen in a particular area...this leaves little aura to defend with....However You are still protected by some aura.

KO is the same except it concentrate all of your aura in one area leaving you defenseless.

& Finally RYU..RYU is the real time combat of Gyo...Blocking and attacking in accordance to your opponent..They attack with 50% , You Block with the same or more.

 

[tupadre97]

Humans who don't know Nen can't do Ten, actually. They "live" in Zetsu.

No they don't, their aura just leaks normally and unconsciously. Some humans can use zetsu (like gon tailing hisoka) or ren (johness the ripper, gon picking up hisoka, or basically any superhuman feat we've seen "without" nen in the series) unconsciously, they aren't always stuck in zetsu.

---------- Post added at 04:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:49 PM ----------

Wait, What! Huh?
You don't use Gyo on your whole body.
Gyo is Concentrating a high amount of Nen in a particular area...this leaves little aura to defend with....However You are still protected by some aura.

KO is the same except it concentrate all of your aura in one area leaving you defenseless.

& Finally RYU..RYU is the real time combat of Gyo...Blocking and attacking in accordance to your opponent..They attack with 50% , You Block with the same or more.

Every time your block or throw an attack you have to use gyo accordingly. Ryu may be the real time application of gyo but you're still using gyo. That's the point i was trying to get across, you use gyo all the time when you fight so it makes sense for you to sometimes ignore or forget using gyo in your eyes.

 

[XXGenesis]

No they don't, their aura just leaks normally and unconsciously. Some humans can use zetsu (like gon tailing hisoka) or ren (johness the ripper, gon picking up hisoka, or basically any superhuman feat we've seen "without" nen in the series) unconsciously, they aren't always stuck in zetsu.

Good post their aura does leak Normally until they learn Ten.
Gon being a nature boy and essentially Aninals can use Zetsu unknowingly when hunting.

Other than that SuperHuman Feats are simply Superhuman Feats...Killua was already Temp-Hunter Lv & the rest of te gang caught up after training at his house they were able to move 16tons with Leorio being capable lifting more......Other than that No other feats include Non Nen users subconsciously using Nen.....Gon broke Illumi's arm because Illumi wasn't using Nen and is physically capable of such.

---------- Post added at 04:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:49 PM ----------

Every time your block or throw an attack you have to use gyo accordingly. Ryu may be the real time application of gyo but you're still using gyo. That's the point i was trying to get across, you use gyo all the time when you fight so it makes sense for you to sometimes ignore or forget using gyo in your eyes.

Yes & NO.......Your right you are technically using Gyo but using it in a fight is called RYU, you constantly move your Nen around focusing different amounts....Gyo in itself is simply focusing a more than normal amount somewhere...RYU is the shifting of aura to block,attack,counter, or feint.

& If your constantly Blocking or Attacking depending on the circumstances of the fight it would be in your best instincts of preservations to did out what type of Aura type your opponent and if he's hiding his aura or possible Hatsu ability

 

[Copy Panda]

Yah Ryu, according to Bisky, is the real time application of aura movement around your body hm

 

[tupadre97]

Good post their aura does leak Normally until they learn Ten.
Gon being a nature boy and essentially Aninals can use Zetsu unknowingly when hunting.

Other than that SuperHuman Feats are simply Superhuman Feats...Killua was already Temp-Hunter Lv & the rest of te gang caught up after training at his house they were able to move 16tons with Leorio being capable lifting more......Other than that No other feats include Non Nen users subconsciously using Nen.....Gon broke Illumi's arm because Illumi wasn't using Nen and is physically capable of such.

Nah nen has been alluded to as a power ever since the beginning of the series. HxH is supposed to be the real world with normal ppl except with the superhuman ability to use nen. I doubt HxH has humans be superhuman just because when unconscious use of nen has already been confirmed as possible and would explain perfectly any superhuman feat.

---------- Post added at 04:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:49 PM ----------

Yes & NO.......Your right you are technically using Gyo but using it in a fight is called RYU, you constantly move your Nen around focusing different amounts....Gyo in itself is simply focusing a more than normal amount somewhere...RYU is the shifting of aura to block,attack,counter, or feint.

& If your constantly Blocking or Attacking depending on the circumstances of the fight it would be in your best instincts of preservations to did out what type of Aura type your opponent and if he's hiding his aura or possible Hatsu ability

I understand but it isn't like ryu is automatic. You still have to consciously use gyo to shift your nen around. That's the point i'm trying to make, it requires focus and effort to use ryu and sometimes you might forget or ignore gyo in the eyes.

 

[XXGenesis]

Nah nen has been alluded to as a power ever since the beginning of the series. HxH is supposed to be the real world with normal ppl except with the superhuman ability to use nen. I doubt HxH has humans be superhuman just because when unconscious use of nen has already been confirmed as possible and would explain perfectly any superhuman feat.

---------- Post added at 04:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:49 PM ----------

Nen wasn't introduced or hinted at until The Hunter examiners laid eyes on Hisoka and said he's not like the rest & When Hisoka went crazy and Gon stole Gon's button.

Hisoka not using Nen was easily damaged by a flying knife during the exams do to trying to casually dodge em...Likewise Without NeN Humans are pretty fragile. Unconcious use of Nen are applied to SPECIAL case such as Alluka & Nostrade Girl...& Highly skilled,dedicated,hard worked Craftsman can unconsciously create Items with an aura to them Ex...Beaitful Pots, Paintings, Weapons....Benzhine Knives where created by a knifesmith who was a serial killer. He was so into his craft All of his Knives are super sharp and carry an aura. As to why the knife works on Nen users even Silva.

Regardless HXH is an action Manga/Anime...The characters already start off with superhuman capabilities. NEN is the SuperNatural Power of HXH. Two different things...Ex Chakra,Chi,Spiritual Power, Magic W

The Zoldycks Front Gate has 7Doors in total it weights 64tons..Killua opened all of them During the Elextion Arc.....Back when he first returned an didnt know Nen he could open 16Tons....The others couldn't.......What is not superhuman about that? Also running on walls & ceilings Gon Vs Hanzo fight...

I understand but it isn't like ryu is automatic. You still have to consciously use gyo to shift your nen around. That's the point i'm trying to make, it requires focus and effort to use ryu and sometimes you might forget or ignore gyo in the eyes.

Right. RYU is an automatic application of Gyo shifting around your aura in H2H. GYO would be used to specifically not leave yourself entirely open with KO during heavy attacks....Your still not catching this vital point in NEN fights.

Conjurer's Like Killua Can Use IN & hide their Items, while their items have nasty abilities and are invisible You don't use GYO & you die.
Emission Users like Franklin Can Riddle you with invisible bullets & you die.
Hisoka can Bungee Gum your boot to the floor...Some SHU enforced Playing Cards....Your face to his fist..All without you knowing...
Sphinx can twist his arm around like he's stretching and then you could go H2H with him get blown away.....

There's no excuse for not using GYO bro.....It's the only way to see/detect Nen hidden by IN...Unless you waste stamina and use EN which also exposes IN as EN detects everything it covers.

 

[tupadre97]

Nen wasn't introduced or hinted at until The Hunter examiners laid eyes on Hisoka and said he's not like the rest & When Hisoka went crazy and Gon stole Gon's button.

Hisoka not using Nen was easily damaged by a flying knife during the exams do to trying to casually dodge em...Likewise Without NeN Humans are pretty fragile. Unconcious use of Nen are applied to SPECIAL case such as Alluka & Nostrade Girl...& Highly skilled,dedicated,hard worked Craftsman can unconsciously create Items with an aura to them Ex...Beaitful Pots, Paintings, Weapons....Benzhine Knives where created by a knifesmith who was a serial killer. He was so into his craft All of his Knives are super sharp and carry an aura. As to why the knife works on Nen users even Silva.

Regardless HXH is an action Manga/Anime...The characters already start off with superhuman capabilities. NEN is the SuperNatural Power of HXH. Two different things...Ex Chakra,Chi,Spiritual Power, Magic W

The Zoldycks Front Gate has 7Doors in total it weights 64tons..Killua opened all of them During the Elextion Arc.....Back when he first returned an didnt know Nen he could open 16Tons....The others couldn't.......What is not superhuman about that? Also running on walls & ceilings Gon Vs Hanzo fight...




Right. RYU is an automatic application of Gyo shifting around your aura in H2H. GYO would be used to specifically not leave yourself entirely open with KO during heavy attacks....Your still not catching this vital point in NEN fights.

Conjurer's Like Killua Can Use IN & hide their Items, while their items have nasty abilities and are invisible You don't use GYO & you die.
Emission Users like Franklin Can Riddle you with invisible bullets & you die.
Hisoka can Bungee Gum your boot to the floor...Some SHU enforced Playing Cards....Your face to his fist..All without you knowing...
Sphinx can twist his arm around like he's stretching and then you could go H2H with him get blown away.....

There's no excuse for not using GYO bro.....It's the only way to see/detect Nen hidden by IN...Unless you waste stamina and use EN which also exposes IN as EN detects everything it covers.

What no just no. All living things have nen no superhuman feat that has occured in this manga can occur without nen because that is simply how the magic of this universe works. Killua and other non nen users doing superhuman feats is because of unconscious use of ren there is literally no other explanation and it explains how nen users can tell the potential of non nen users like Hisoka in the hunter exams.

No Ryu is not automatic you have to consciously move your aura, i have no idea where you get the concept that it is automatic...

Killua is not a conjurer... and if just because you use In doesn't mean it could be good enough to actually conceal your hatsu. Their are obviously varying levels to gyo and In seeing how zushi and gon couldn't see all of hisoka's gum strands while killua could see them all with focus. Also you can sometimes see nen with basic vision so again there's another reason to not use gyo. Once again the point i am trying to make is that there are some situations it makes no sense to use gyo like if your opponent isn't or can't use In very well. And even if you use gyo it's not even guaranteed to see your opponents hatsu completely (like with zushi). I never said this is a good thing, this is just another reason to keep practicing your gyo and know when to use it for appropriate situations.

 

[kkck]

What no just no. All living things have nen no superhuman feat that has occured in this manga can occur without nen because that is simply how the magic of this universe works. Killua and other non nen users doing superhuman feats is because of unconscious use of ren there is literally no other explanation and it explains how nen users can tell the potential of non nen users like Hisoka in the hunter exams.

No Ryu is not automatic you have to consciously move your aura, i have no idea where you get the concept that it is automatic...

Killua is not a conjurer... and if just because you use In doesn't mean it could be good enough to actually conceal your hatsu. Their are obviously varying levels to gyo and In seeing how zushi and gon couldn't see all of hisoka's gum strands while killua could see them all with focus. Also you can sometimes see nen with basic vision so again there's another reason to not use gyo. Once again the point i am trying to make is that there are some situations it makes no sense to use gyo like if your opponent isn't or can't use In very well. And even if you use gyo it's not even guaranteed to see your opponents hatsu completely (like with zushi). I never said this is a good thing, this is just another reason to keep practicing your gyo and know when to use it for appropriate situations.

Based on what we have seen it does seem like superhuman feats is plausible without nen. There is no reason for us to think killua and gon were using nen, let alone ren, unconsciously before learning nen. The manga showed us that gon and killua were pretty much within the norm before learning nen, it simply leaked out from their bodies without them noticing as it happened to every other living being on earth. Unconscious ren is borderline a conceptual impossibility here. Ten is the most basic form of nen control where you stop your aura from freely flowing out. With ren you increase your output to the max (and ken is a sustained ren). What you suggest is impossible simply because it would imply the two of them were maintaining their maximum aura output unconsciously, something which before the quimera ant training they could barely manage intentionally. And we know they were not using ten unconsciously before because the manga told us their nen was leaking normally and we saw them learning how to control ten.

Nen shouldn't be visible to the naked eye as far as the manga has said. Its one of the reasons bisk made a point of gon and killua being able to use gyo on their eyes instantly during their training. I think it was said that when you are in ken state you can see nen as your entire body is outputting high amounts of aura though. Of course, ken is harder to maintain than only gyo in your eyes.

Ryu is not automatic although part of the point of the training is to make it quick enough to be useful in battle. I guess the point is getting it to be basically a reflex.

 

[XXGenesis]

RYU is not automatic but as KKck mentioned Mastered RYU is suppose to be as smooth as your reflexes & actual movement..RYU is basically is the flow of aura during fighting...Netero is highly noted to have a unreadable still as hell aura flow while compared to Gon who's flow easily telegraphed his next attack/defense.

GYO is a Nen fight basic rule if you don't follow your gonna get screwed. Nen can be hidden to those that know Nen so going in blind is highly irresponsible. Only conjured items are Visible to non-Nen users, nothing else. Nen can only be sensed by non-Nen user. The feeling they get is all based off the intented emotions and desires of their opposer....
Ex..Zushi made Killua feel a bit ackward & he had no malice, he juss wouldn't stay down
....Hisoka straight scared the sh*t out of Gon & the animals because of his bloodlust..this paralyzed Gon
....Hisoka vs Killua&Gon they couldn't get past him extending his aura with malice and intent to not have them pass.
.....Illumi's slightly using Nen caused Gon to immediately jump back because he felt threatened

Non-Nen users who can use Nen are Highly skilled and talented people. They are basically potential specialization users who would know how to use Nen or unconsciously use Nen for their purposes....Nostrad Girl can Fortune Tell for others...Alluka can grant wishes for others....Craftsman/Serial killer Benzhine dedication,skill,high emotion created Knives capable of cutting Nen users....Komugi GunGi champion of the world started to awake enhanced strategy formulation.......Most likely Highly skilled athletes,artist, orators, musicians uncouciously expell aura to carry out their deeds in fascinating and attention grabbing ways, stuff of astonishment and amazement but still plausible.

I Honestly have the best Ranking for HxH characters.
Leorio at the start is above average Human the Hunter exam was very very challenging for him.
Gon & Kurapicka's were SuperHuman were capable of passing the Hunter exam with some difficulty.
Killua already Temp Hunter class, good enough to be a Hunter but didn't know Nen.

Killua immediately after the exams went home and open 16tons on the door. Gon, Leorio & Kurapicka Used all their might to just open 2tons before they trained with weighted everyday objects....Note Killua told Gon he had to hold back against people..As to how Gon was simply pushing people of the ring during the Battle Tower arc....& Before saving Alluka from his family he moved 64tons.

Nen is essentially the ultimate form of concentration, desire and will. So given if one excells to perfect or constantly improving their skill they will subconsciously start to display Nen like abilities...Or if properly taught they will be able to manifest unique particular Hatsu..Like the ants their psych & biology is much different from humans. As to why their potential for Nen is higher...Given Pofu's Intellegence they were able to easy give form to a power to accommodate their personality, Strentgh and weakness.

 

[Demonspeed]

RYU is not automatic but as KKck mentioned Mastered RYU is suppose to be as smooth as your reflexes & actual movement..RYU is basically is the flow of aura during fighting...Netero is highly noted to have a unreadable still as hell aura flow while compared to Gon who's flow easily telegraphed his next attack/defense.

No, Ryu's mastery doesn't depend on human reflexes and movement, Ryu's mastery comes from regular training, the more you train(meditation etc), the more you control your Aura flow. Gon had already superhuman reflexes at the start of the series but his control of Aura flow was not that fast once he learnt Nen, that was the problem with Tsezguerra, he was stronger than Gon and Killua overall and superhuman but his lack of training made his mastery of his Aura flow bad. Gon's Aura flow is not really easily readable, he was doing it on purpose in this fight, because Knuckle was underestimating him, it was to taunt him.

 

[kkck]

No, Ryu's mastery doesn't depend on human reflexes and movement, Ryu's mastery comes from regular training, the more you train(meditation etc), the more you control your Aura flow. Gon had already superhuman reflexes at the start of the series but his control of Aura flow was not that fast once he learnt Nen, that was the problem with Tsezguerra, he was stronger than Gon and Killua overall and superhuman but his lack of training made his mastery of his Aura flow bad. Gon's Aura flow is not really easily readable, he was doing it on purpose in this fight, because Knuckle was underestimating him, it was to taunt him.

IIRC the situation was that indeed gon was telegraphing his attacks due to the extent of his ineptitude at moving his aura around. Gon simply used that to his advantage to set a trap for knuckle during the fight. Its not that gon was faking his ineptitude, he merely made lemonade with the lemons he had. Getting a smooth and fast flow of aura is something that should take him months if not years of training...

 

[XXGenesis]

No, Ryu's mastery doesn't depend on human reflexes and movement, Ryu's mastery comes from regular training, the more you train(meditation etc), the more you control your Aura flow. Gon had already superhuman reflexes at the start of the series but his control of Aura flow was not that fast once he learnt Nen, that was the problem with Tsezguerra, he was stronger than Gon and Killua overall and superhuman but his lack of training made his mastery of his Aura flow bad. Gon's Aura flow is not really easily readable, he was doing it on purpose in this fight, because Knuckle was underestimating him, it was to taunt him.

RE read my post.

I said RYU mastery is suppose to be as smooth as your reflexes and actual movement.
Not that mastery of the application depends on your reflexes. That would go against my argument of Gon who has great reflexes but low RYU mastery because his strikes are telegraphed through his aura flow.

Thank you Kckk for pointing that out. Even Killua mentions that Gon is telegraphing his strikes.
Killua also took note of this and Yes their aura flow is decent but not on par with Ppl like Knuckle, Morel etc.....I believe Gon's inexperience in fighting overall caused this weakness. Killua as a martial artist/Assasin is ahead of Gon in battle experience and H2H. I think Killua's RYU is better than Gon's

 

[kkck]

There is no particular reason for killua's ryu to be better than gon's. If anything I would argue the opposite, gon's should be better because at least as far as nen goes gon's talent is greater than killua's (if only marginally) and for the most part the two of them have been going at it for the same amount of time. Killua is the superior fighter because he has actual combat experience which gon does not have. And he is also, significantly more powerful than gon from a physical standpoint, as in strength, speed, stamina.... Gon has superior recovery power though. Anyways, nenwise the two should be about equal, the manga has not given any reason to think otherwise. Its in martial arts and pure physical prowess where killua is clearly superior. Even when we saw them training their ryu the two of them were pretty much equal, even with his physical superiority killua could not really get the upperhand on gon (we saw the two of them moving equally slowly when training in greed island with bisk).

 

[XXGenesis]

There is no particular reason for killua's ryu to be better than gon's. If anything I would argue the opposite, gon's should be better because at least as far as nen goes gon's talent is greater than killua's (if only marginally) and for the most part the two of them have been going at it for the same amount of time. Killua is the superior fighter because he has actual combat experience which gon does not have. And he is also, significantly more powerful than gon from a physical standpoint, as in strength, speed, stamina.... Gon has superior recovery power though. Anyways, nenwise the two should be about equal, the manga has not given any reason to think otherwise. Its in martial arts and pure physical prowess where killua is clearly superior. Even when we saw them training their ryu the two of them were pretty much equal, even with his physical superiority killua could not really get the upperhand on gon (we saw the two of them moving equally slowly when training in greed island with bisk).

G.I training is a bad example. That was training. They started off slow and when they got a good grasp on it they speed up their H2H...That was RYU training not a H2H contest or anything like that..Juss a simple spar to practice RYU at a certain battle speed.

Killua has always been better than Gon.
Nen kinda even'd it out, however Killua is still showing out over Gon.

Both are Nen geniuses and started out at the same time. Killua however is more Intellegent than Gon and has a deeper understanding and concept of Nen....Ex..Killua uses his Nen/emotional intent to scare sadaso after he kidnap zushi....Killua develops his own Hatsu without calling Wing for help.....Killua develops his Hatsu even further during combat.

Killua braced Gon & Hisoka to catch Razor' ball..The shifting of his aura there was commented to be very very skilled, for he was the lynch pin in blocking that serve....Killua like normal comments in on Gon's fight either giving advice or seeing Gon's flauts during battle such as his telegraphed attacks vs Knuckle..

Gon & Killua roughly have the same upper body limits..Both could lift 16tons before learning Nen..& Killua lifted 64tons during the election arc....I don't see why Gon's strength should be lower especially since he's a enhancer....I actually believe he's a few tons stronger

Gon's only advantage over Killua is Nen Mystery points....Gon's psyche is so different conpared others when he gets emotional or strong will'd he summons mystery Nen points which put his aura above his current cap.

Speed, Skill, Reflexes, Experience, Martial arts, Intelligence Killua outshines Gon when he's serious.....Killua's years of upbringing as an Zoldyck Assasin has yet to be outdone by pure talent and potential...For Killua holds the same amount in both compared to Gon and has been killing people, traveling the world, fighting others long before he met Gon.

 

[ZakAtakk]

Re: Aura combat thoughts

In the movie Phantom Rouge Kurapika used chain jail against an ex-member of the spider who participated in the slaughter of his tribe. It's safe to say that Kurapika defines who can be targeted as a spider by something less trivial than "an individual that currently self-identifies as a member of the Phantom Troupe." Based on his line of questioning it's far more likely that to Kurapika being a Spider means that you were a member who participated in the slaughter of the Kurita Clan. Otherwise it is anyone that is or has ever been associated with the Phantom Troupe and Kurapika would just prefer to only kill the responsible parties. The real weakness in Kurapika's ability is that the Phantom Troupe can simply hire assassins from a third party unassociated with the Phantom Troupe to kill Kurapika because he would be defenseless against them.

 

[kkck]

Well, the spiders don't know that kurapica is only worth something as a nen user when fighting specifically against them. So with that in mind they wouldn't have a reason to hire an assassin. The spiders are some of the stronger nen users around, from their perspective hiring someone of their skill level to deal with kurapica would be kinda pointless. Well, chrollo hired a zoldick a while back, perhaps the idea is not too far fetched...

 

[Copy Panda]

Re: Aura combat thoughts

In the movie Phantom Rouge Kurapika used chain jail against an ex-member of the spider who participated in the slaughter of his tribe. It's safe to say that Kurapika defines who can be targeted as a spider by something less trivial than "an individual that currently self-identifies as a member of the Phantom Troupe." Based on his line of questioning it's far more likely that to Kurapika being a Spider means that you were a member who participated in the slaughter of the Kurita Clan. Otherwise it is anyone that is or has ever been associated with the Phantom Troupe and Kurapika would just prefer to only kill the responsible parties. The real weakness in Kurapika's ability is that the Phantom Troupe can simply hire assassins from a third party unassociated with the Phantom Troupe to kill Kurapika because he would be defenseless against them.

The movies aren't cannon, so w/e is shown in there isn't reliable information/truthful

Also, the spiders don't know about his abilities being usable against only the spiders - that's why Killua was upset when Kurapika told them (because Pakunoda could use her ability on them to find out)

 

[XXGenesis]

The Spider Know all about Kurapicka's Hatsu's conditions, Vow & limit.

Kurapicka placed Chrollo & Pakunoda under Chain Judgements condition.

Chrollo's condition was he can't communicate with any Spider or use Nen.
Pakunoda's condition was that she can't use Nen or reveal any of Kurapicka's ability, which she learnt from making contact with Killua&Gon.

So Pakundoa sacraficed herself to tell the original members Feitan,Franklin,Sphinxs,Nobunaga of Kurapicka's face, ability, weakness & her feelings to why she saved the boss...