Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2015] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[piau9000]

http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/...e-firms-debut-latest-anti-piracy-project.html

"We are extremely encouraged to see renewed attention being brought to the piracy issue," said Kurt Hassler, Publishing Director at Yen Press and a key figure in the growth of manga in the U.S. "Rampant appropriation of creators' work has had an extremely negative impact on the international market for manga, devalues the amazing content coming out of Japan, and ultimately has a direct impact on the creators themselves. Yen Press is keen to offer its support to these efforts."

Robert Newman of Crunchyroll Manga, a site that offers legal access to streamed English-language manga titles, agreed. "Edited Mangas continue to erode the consumption of manga and licensed services," a state of affairs that threatens the continued development of new manga and anime content. “While it will likely take a while to see the impact of MAG Project's efforts, it's generally agreed that any actions taken to curb piracy is a step in the right direction,” he said.
Newman acknowledged that the MAG Project's goals are "ambitious," but added, "if it leads to a reduction in piracy and an increase in legal consumption that will be great for fostering a healthy market for the industry outside of Japan. In fact, we are seeing healthy traffic coming from MAG, so the project is already encouraging. We hope that it continues to ramp up and make a difference."

And they don't need to show it in panels if they support it.
Paramount, Sony, etc... never did, even though they support MIAA and RIAA.

 

[RafaFedKilla]

Best Blue was absolutely incredible. Takumi's determination is infectious. Can't wait to meet more characters from this story!

 

[SharkBait]

Best Blue was absolutely incredible. Takumi's determination is infectious. Can't wait to meet more characters from this story!

Yeah its really good. This has to be jumps best year of high-quality high-calbur storytelling

 

[Stark700]

And they don't need to show it in panels if they support it.
Paramount, Sony, etc... never did, even though they support MIAA and RIAA.

They tend to alienate their fanbase by saying that they're at the brink of bankrupt and that all pirates are mean and bad.

And yet again, there are still no publishers saying they're losing billions or saying they're on the verge of bankruptcy like you claimed. You are operating on way too many assumptions.


You do realize the end quote is him saying he hopes piracy lessens and more people consume legal alternatives right? He's not saying to shut down all pirate sites. You also don't seem to be able to understand that publishers aren't going draconian or sue happy like the MPAA or RIAA.

---------- Post added at 11:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:50 AM ----------

Yeah its really good. This has to be jumps best year of high-quality high-calbur storytelling

It felt like a good version of Free.

 

[piau9000]

Did I not just showed you a link when they claim that they are losing billions?
"The estimated cost of damage from online piracy is as much as JPY 2 trillion (approximately US$ 20 billion)."


"We are extremely encouraged to see renewed attention being brought to the piracy issue."
"In fact, we are seeing healthy traffic coming from MAG, so the project is already encouraging. We hope that it continues to ramp up and make a difference."
They're talking about MAG project.

Also did not VIZ do a shutdown rampage time to time?
https://storify.com/lavamancer20/viz-media-shuts-down-mangastream

What about onemanga?
http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2010/07/breaking-Edited Manga-giant-one-manga-is-shutting-down/



First you say that they not exagerating. I show you a link to their main page where it's cleary that they are, but you say that it doesn't matter.
Second you say that American publishers don't support them. I show you a proof, but you say that it doesn't matter.

Now I don't understand what is Draconian?
I'm done with this since you are obviously going the personal attacks way.

 

[WyldViolet]

Well more people would probably buy Viz's weekly Jump if they called Zoro by his proper fucking name (Funimation has been calling him Zoro nearly a decade now so while there original intention was to keep continuity with the 4kids dub, it actually makes it more confusing now with him being called his proper name in the anime dub, but a bastardized version of his name in their shit translation of the manga).
If they also pick up popular series right when they begin rather than waiting half a year or longer (My Hero Academia, Shokugeki no Soma) things would be much better.
And while this probably would require more money than they have, I'd like more series as well, especially from sister Shueshia magazines. The only series running in Viz Jump I really care about and would consider paying for are HxH and One Piece. Toriko and World Trigger are nice but I don't care enough to pay for them. I also would feel sick to my stomach if I ever financially supported shit like Naruto or Black Clover.
I mean I don't expect them to have every Jump series because a few obvious ones (Isobe and Kochikame) wouldn't really appeal to the western market, but they need more than the paltry amount they currently have.
This is what Viz Jump's lineup should look like. Even including a few series I really don't like but would bring them the attention they need for people to actually want to pay them. Especially if they want to compete with massive amount of series Crunchyroll has.
AssClass
Black Clover
Bleach
My Hero Academia
Haiyuu
Hinomaru Sumo
Hunter x Hunter
Kagamigami (if it manages to survive somehow with Jump's recent pushes)
Nisekoi
One Piece
Shokugeki no Soma
Straighten Up!
Toriko
World Trigger
Blue Exorcist
Owari no Seraph
Sosei no Onmyoji
Kekkai Sensen
D. Gray Man
Dragon Ball Super
Kingdom
Tokyo Ghoul: RE
JoJoLion
Jumbor

That's 24 series.
Not even half of the amount Crunchyroll has and gives you a good taste of all of Shueshia's magazines.
Also, I included some series from the seinen magazines because Viz ran All You Need Is Kill and runs One Punch Man both of which are seinen.

I'm honestly pretty shocked they haven't added Dragon Ball Super or Tokyo Ghoul: RE yet.

 

[Stark700]

Did I not just showed you a link when they claim that they are losing billions?
"The estimated cost of damage from online piracy is as much as JPY 2 trillion (approximately US$ 20 billion)."


"We are extremely encouraged to see renewed attention being brought to the piracy issue."
"In fact, we are seeing healthy traffic coming from MAG, so the project is already encouraging. We hope that it continues to ramp up and make a difference."
They're talking about MAG project.

Also did not VIZ do a shutdown rampage time to time?
https://storify.com/lavamancer20/viz-media-shuts-down-mangastream

What about onemanga?
http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2010/07/breaking-Edited Manga-giant-one-manga-is-shutting-down/



First you say that they not exagerating. I show you a link to their main page where it's cleary that they are, but you say that it doesn't matter.
Second you say that American publishers don't support them. I show you a proof, but you say that it doesn't matter.

Now I don't understand what is Draconian?
I'm done with this since you are obviously going the personal attacks way.

Considering Mangastream is back, that point pretty much means nothing. I forgot all about OneManga. But still, we still have the biggest aggregators up today and what lawsuits have we ever heard of? Considering news sites cover just about everything, the fact we've heard of not a single user being sued for thousands of dollars for pirating a manga, should say something.

If they were going draconian as you claim, you would have actually seen at least a smidgeon of content from these huge aggregates be taken down. Anything we ever hear of is so minimal, that it essentially amounts to nothing.

You see news of lawsuits involving the MPAA and RIAA more often. You see people getting used for torrenting software, music and movies, yet barely so when it comes to anime and you expect me to believe that the US anime and manga industry is going draconian?


Again, there is no face behind this claim of 20 trillion yen being lost. It's some Japanese agency who came up with that figure.

This is what you originally said before taking this discussion somewhere else entirely

This talk about "Edited Manga hurts sales" is so old and has been used so many times that, if it were true, the industry would've already been bankrupt by 2013...

You still have not provided any evidence of any publisher ever saying they've posted such significant losses. This is the entire point I'm making. Even with this figure of so called losses that MAG provides, they don't claim anyone is going bankrupt.

The whole point was that in that panel mentioned earlier, they said Edited Mangas hurt sales. They never said it was so major they would have to close down. No one ever said the losses were that great. They're merely saying they're selling less than they could be. They're not exaggerating because they're not saying scans will cause them to go out of business.

---------- Post added at 12:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:51 PM ----------

Kekkai Sensen

Dark Horse has that one though

 

[conankudo]

Well more people would probably buy Viz's weekly Jump if they called Zoro by his proper fucking name (Funimation has been calling him Zoro nearly a decade now so while there original intention was to keep continuity with the 4kids dub, it actually makes it more confusing now with him being called his proper name in the anime dub, but a bastardized version of his name in their shit translation of the manga).

Viz mentioned more than once: It was a legal issue and now it is a matter of consistency. They won't change it. Zoro vs Zolo - what big difference. And for the record, viz brought on board the best translator there is for One Piece: Stephen Paul (since SJ alpha, volume 65), the guy who literally shaped and supported the whole One Piece Fandom with his script back then. Your statement is such an arrogant insult towards the whole One Piece community. Viz does nowadays such a good job with One Piece, they even correct "flaws" that Oda did.
By the way, the german version e.g. not only changed a lot of names (Luffy->Ruffy, Portgas. D. Ace -> Puma D. Ace etc.) but also made crucial translation mistakes. The english version is nearly perfect pertaining accuracy

---------- Post added at 11:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:58 PM ----------

Again, there is no face behind this claim of 20 trillion yen being lost. It's some Japanese agency who came up with that figure

Roland Berger Japan conducted this research study.

 

[piau9000]

By original point was:

They exagerate and lie about numbers, as if they are losing billions. But they do it since 19xx so, if it are indeed true, they would already been bankrupt since most business that lose billions at a year basis are at risk.

Then you said that they didn't exagerate and all the argument unfolded.

 

[WyldViolet]

Viz mentioned more than once: It was a legal issue and now it is a matter of consistency. They won't change it. Zoro vs Zolo - what big difference. And for the record, viz brought on board the best translator there is for One Piece: Stephen Paul (since SJ alpha, volume 65), the guy who literally shaped and supported the whole One Piece Fandom with his script back then. Your statement is such an arrogant insult towards the whole One Piece community. Viz does nowadays such a good job with One Piece, they even correct "flaws" that Oda did.
By the way, the german version e.g. not only changed a lot of names (Luffy->Ruffy, Portgas. D. Ace -> Puma D. Ace etc.) but also made crucial translation mistakes. The english version is nearly perfect pertaining accuracy

---------- Post added at 11:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:58 PM ----------


Roland Berger Japan conducted this research study.

It was never a legal issue, that's complete and utter horseshit. If that were the case then Funimation wouldn't have been calling him Zoro FOR NEARLY A DECADE NOW.
And if they wanted consistency then he would have the same name he does in the anime dub. Everybody who reads One Piece knows his actual name is Zoro, so it won't be difficult at all for existing readers to switch to the real name.
Would you be fine if the original Yugioh was still running today and in Viz's Jump and they were calling Jonouchi, Joey or Anzu, Tea?
No.
That alone makes their translation shit and makes Stephen a fucking sellout corporate cronie hack.

 

[Stark700]

By original point was:

They exagerate and lie about numbers, as if they are losing billions. But they do it since 19xx so, if it are indeed true, they would already been bankrupt since most business that lose billions at a year basis are at risk.

Then you said that they didn't exagerate and all the argument unfolded.

Yeah, because no individual publisher ever outright came out and said they were losing this kind of money to this extent because of Edited Manga
That number on MAG isn't specific to a publisher, or even to the US, at that. They point 5.6 billion a year to China, but that's it. The other number is attributed to nothing specific and doesn't even give any number of years, so how can you even use this for arguments sake? They point out $20 billion so vaguely. This also includes anime, looks like.

So what did the publishers exaggerate? Nothing. Because again, no one came out and said that the damage Edited Manga does to the US publishing business is so bad that they are about to declare bankruptcy.

---------- Post added at 01:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:18 PM ----------

It was never a legal issue, that's complete and utter horseshit. If that were the case then Funimation wouldn't have been calling him Zoro FOR NEARLY A DECADE NOW.
And if they wanted consistency then he would have the same name he does in the anime dub. Everybody who reads One Piece knows his actual name is Zoro, so it won't be difficult at all for existing readers to switch to the real name.
Would you be fine if the original Yugioh was still running today and in Viz's Jump and they were calling Jonouchi, Joey or Anzu, Tea?
No.
That alone makes their translation shit and makes Stephen a fucking sellout corporate cronie hack.

Funimation dealt with One Piece 4 years after Viz had already been publishing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zorro#Copyright_and_trademark_disputes

For all intents and purposes, Viz was and probably still is smaller than Funimation, so why would they risk a lawsuit?

Viz never changed the names of the characters in Yu-Gi-Oh at the time, nor did they do it for Shaman King.

 

[WyldViolet]

Yeah, because no individual publisher ever outright came out and said they were losing this kind of money to this extent because of Edited Manga
That number on MAG isn't specific to a publisher, or even to the US, at that. They point 5.6 billion a year to China, but that's it. The other number is attributed to nothing specific and doesn't even give any number of years, so how can you even use this for arguments sake? They point out $20 billion so vaguely. This also includes anime, looks like.

So what did the publishers exaggerate? Nothing. Because again, no one came out and said that the damage Edited Manga does to the US publishing business is so bad that they are about to declare bankruptcy.

---------- Post added at 01:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:18 PM ----------



Funimation dealt with One Piece 4 years after Viz had already been publishing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zorro#Copyright_and_trademark_disputes

For all intents and purposes, Viz was and probably still is smaller than Funimation, so why would they risk a lawsuit?

Viz never changed the names of the characters in Yu-Gi-Oh at the time, nor did they do it for Shaman King.

It's still bullshit that they are continuing to use a name from the dub that killed One Piece's chances of Naruto level success in North America.
It shows a lack of respect to the fanbase, and is just more evidence of their terrible decision making skills.
Also, there would be no lawsuit and even if there was it would be thrown out.
The only similarities are their names (with different spellings) and the fact that they use swords.
Should the creators of Rambo sue the creators of Die Hard because they both feature gun toting badasses named John?

 

[conankudo]

It was never a legal issue, that's complete and utter horseshit. If that were the case then Funimation wouldn't have been calling him Zoro FOR NEARLY A DECADE NOW.
And if they wanted consistency then he would have the same name he does in the anime dub. Everybody who reads One Piece knows his actual name is Zoro, so it won't be difficult at all for existing readers to switch to the real name.
Would you be fine if the original Yugioh was still running today and in Viz's Jump and they were calling Jonouchi, Joey or Anzu, Tea?
No.
That alone makes their translation shit and makes Stephen a fucking sellout corporate cronie hack.

Are serious or do you just like it to rant? It was a legal issue. In the beginning of english print Jump viz called Zoro "Zoro" but viz had to change the name to Zolo due to a trademark issue. That was 2004. For the record, viz had been using Zoro for the official english release but had to switch to Zolo and that was a call by SHueisha since Shueisha had owned the trademark for Roronoa Zolo. Therefore you can't hate viz for that. However, now they could switch back to Zoro but due to consitency in the manga release viz decided not to do this.

 

[piau9000]

Here we go again...

"Over 50% of them in the U.S..."

50% of 20 billion = 10 billion only in US.

You may claim again that they did not "showed it on panels", and I will show you AGAIN that they are supporting MAG so they agree with their numbers.

By agreeing with their numbers they agree that they are losing 10 billions only in US.

You will then disqualify the japanese number, but this will just prove my point that they are exaggerating.

I don't want to run in circles with this discussion.

 

[WyldViolet]

Are serious or do you just like it to rant? It was a legal issue. In the beginning of english print Jump viz called Zoro "Zoro" but viz had to change the name to Zolo due to a trademark issue. That was 2004. For the record, viz had been using Zoro for the official english release but had to switch to Zolo and that was a call by SHueisha since Shueisha had owned the trademark for Roronoa Zolo. Therefore you can't hate viz for that. However, now they could switch back to Zoro but due to consitency in the manga release viz decided not to do this.

You say that but I have never seen any evidence of it being a legal issue other than people on the internet making excuses for Viz.
Even if they did, it's not like we can trust Viz anyways. The people who run it are a bunch of incompetents who are entirely devoid of taste.

 

[conankudo]

You say that but I have never seen any evidence of it being a legal issue other than people on the internet making excuses for Viz.
Even if they did, it's not like we can trust Viz anyways. The people who run it are a bunch of incompetents who are entirely devoid of taste.

then why did viz change Zoro to Zolo in December 2004? Explain this to me or be quiet.

 

[WyldViolet]

then why did viz change Zoro to Zolo in December 2004? Explain this to me or be quiet.

It couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that the 4kids dub premiered just a few months before.

Unless there is actual proof that there was a legal issue, then I'm just going to continue believing the logical explanation of Viz just being a poorly managed group of incompetents as they've shown time and time again.

 

[Stark700]

Here we go again...

"Over 50% of them in the U.S..."

50% of 20 billion = 10 billion only in US.

You may claim again that they did not "showed it on panels", and I will show you AGAIN that they are supporting MAG so they agree with their numbers.

By agreeing with their numbers they agree that they are losing 10 billions only in US.

You will then disqualify the japanese number, but this will just prove my point that they are exaggerating.

I don't want to run in circles with this discussion.

Wait, what? For starters, you can't automatically apply any random percentage of numbers to that. That's taking things out of context. It clearly states

a huge number of Manga and Anime fans, over 50% of them in the U.S. and 12% in Japan, are watching or reading pirated works

That only states 50% of manga and anime fans in the US are watching pirated content. So how are you applying this percentage of people in the US who supposedly pirate, to a number of sales damages? That doesn't make sense.

There are no specifics with that number other than something attributed specifically to China, so we don't know what time span, if it's manga or just anime, how many years, or what country it even applies to.

I'm not discrediting the number, I'm saying you can't apply it in the way you are. And you're taking Kurt Hassler's comment about that at so much more than face value.


Idk man, you should reread those things without trying to find some deeper meaning.

 

[conankudo]

It couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that the 4kids dub premiered just a few months before.

Unless there is actual proof that there was a legal issue, then I'm just going to continue believing the logical explanation of Viz just being a poorly managed group of incompetents as they've shown time and time again.

I really hope a Mod will intervene. Thanks for trolling the thread.

 

[WyldViolet]

I really hope a Mod will intervene. Thanks for trolling the thread.

I'm not trolling. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm trolling.
I'm a blunt person, I'm not flaming, I'm not being rude, I'm just stating my opinion.
Not trolling.
Is there proof it was a legal issue? That's all I'm asking and as far as I'm aware there is absolutely none.